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Dota 2 |OT3| #BetterThenEllenPudge
- Thread starter Artanisix
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Heavy's Sandvich
Member
Fnatic picked Death Prophet?
I belong to Fnatic.
I belong to Fnatic.
Sigismundo
Member
Where can I find VoDs of today's D2L stuff? YouTube doesn't seem to have it.
shira
Member
I think the English audiocast is going to be really bad because Ayesee is yelling with static or something.
Not worth it imho, I think a lot of speakers/eardrums were damaged.
http://www.twitch.tv/d2l/profile
http://www.youtube.com/D2LGGTV
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
Alliance are finished.
Limp performances 4 LANs in a row.
Even with the picks they wanted.
Just seems wisp+hero or gimmicky ones will get them a win here or there.
Limp performances 4 LANs in a row.
Even with the picks they wanted.
Just seems wisp+hero or gimmicky ones will get them a win here or there.
Sigismundo
Member
EDIT: wait, never mind, it's a mod.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Dota2Modding/comments/1up5h0/im_making_a_mod_editor_for_dota_2_its_called/
Booty Patrol
Banned
How the hell do you farm effectively with Mirana? I always find myself behind, there's no quick, reliable way to clear creep waves or jungle like Luna and her Moon Glaives or Nature's Prophet and his Treants can. Starfall is cute but her mana is quite low and I need to save it to be available when needed. Last hitting creep waves isn't fast enough and leaves me getting my important purchases (Yasha, Crystalis, Desolator, Manta Style) later than the typical carry heroes.
Bulldog is not contributing anything.
S4 has been sub-par in most games.
Akke has been solid but not standout.
I think Loda has been playing well but has a tendancy to get carries that maybe aren't the best picks, which is where I think he pushes S4 to get him his favourites.
EGM continues to be excellent in my eyes, he is the one who brings out the most big plays and is their best player atm.
Not sure whether they need to cut anyone yet or if just making Bulldog spend a lot of time hardcore learning the ins and outs of more heroes will be enough. I wouldn't say they are finished though, the players are still highly talented, they just need to find a new groove.
Watch some vods of Sing on his stream, that should give you an idea.
Oop sorry dp.
shira
Member
Watch singsing's old mirana vods if you want an idea of what this means. His potm is so effortless.
http://www.twitch.tv/sing_sing/profile/pastBroadcasts
Navi falls asleep like this. Starladder and D2CL are serious money tourneys. Let's see how those go.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
I can't park everything at Bulldog's door - he played as you could expect on the Nature's Prophet for the third game.
But they need to shake it up big time.
Having said that, I also think Fnatic need to shake it up as well. They're a great bunch but they haven't really shown great progress. They're clearly very talented and have spurts of doing well, but they've never capitalised on that potential.
Marauder Shields
Member
So umm yeah, dat solo que 
Anuxinamoon
Shaper Divine
I'm so glad I blind picked fnatic to be my favourite team when I started watching Competitive Dota, because their antics are hilarious and they are really fun to watch!
Pureauthor
Member
Really I think 6.79 took a sledgehammer to pretty much everything Alliance had going for them during TI3, and they're still reeling from it.
One thing I want to note that many people apparently haven't: The nerfs to Wisp and Batrider hit Alliance hard because during TI3 they benefited massively from the teams they played against having to pick their posion of allowing the two OP heroes of the game through or letting Alliance have free reign of the first two picks.
One thing I want to note that many people apparently haven't: The nerfs to Wisp and Batrider hit Alliance hard because during TI3 they benefited massively from the teams they played against having to pick their posion of allowing the two OP heroes of the game through or letting Alliance have free reign of the first two picks.
I'm so glad I blind picked fnatic to be my favourite team when I started watching Competitive Dota, because their antics are hilarious and they are really fun to watch!
n0tail is amazing
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
I just think that's testament to how inflexible they are. All teams would have had to adjust.
That patch was almost 3 months ago. They've had time and the competitions to practice to make sure they've got to grips with it.
And all they've shown is limpness.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
I'm so glad I blind picked fnatic to be my favourite team when I started watching Competitive Dota, because their antics are hilarious and they are really fun to watch!
You have a crush on one of them don't you?
Who doesn't have a crush on notail
I believe the two reasons Alliance are losng to hard otehr than 6.79 is that they just don't adapt to what other teams use agaisnt them and Bulldog just not putting enough time into learning other heroes, along with questionable lane decisions.
I swear every single game you see S4 getting ganked 2-4 times on mid with barely any answer from alliance.
Meanwhile They put things like Bulldog bristleback offlane, which is cmpletely fine, but then they also put an abaddon on it, which severely cripples bristleback's exp gain, particulary his level 3 where his quills finally do actual damage. I get that abadon is supposed to make bristle unkillable, but that just won't happen without both getting levels and they won't get that in a double melee offlane.
I swear every single game you see S4 getting ganked 2-4 times on mid with barely any answer from alliance.
Meanwhile They put things like Bulldog bristleback offlane, which is cmpletely fine, but then they also put an abaddon on it, which severely cripples bristleback's exp gain, particulary his level 3 where his quills finally do actual damage. I get that abadon is supposed to make bristle unkillable, but that just won't happen without both getting levels and they won't get that in a double melee offlane.
We've talked a lot about the lack of Bulldog heroes, but I have noticed recently that S4 seems to be pretty mediocre over the last few weeks on anything but Magnus and puck. And with puck being not as strong this patch it means that Alliance often find that the mid game is going worse for them as S4 isn't controlling it like he used to. Add in the fact that he isn't winning his lane very often and it seems as though it could be a key factor here. Don't get me wrong he is still very talented, but I feel like his initiation in particular seems off recently.
Edit: The ganks you mention are a contributor to this.
Edit: The ganks you mention are a contributor to this.
shira
Member
Akke used to make so much more space for S4/Loda than he has been recently. But alliance as a team just seem less alive and responsive. The games in the TI3 final where puppey drafted to focus aggression on alliance's support look very familiar to how alliance play recently, seemingly of their own will. Sluggish and doing not much of anything.
Anuxinamoon
Shaper Divine
They are the sexiest team in Dota2 atm
Demon and fly must have so much fun talking about all their lifting techniques
Dendi reporting people on ability abuse of earth spirit hahaha
OldAsUrSock
Banned
That is so awesome. I do wish I played Nature's more often, but peeps need supports.Hey all
Check out the new Nature's Prophet set by Kunkka and :3.
Guardian of the Eternal Seasons by Kunkka and :3
My small part was creating the custom animations for the Bonsai Treant summon.
Bonsaiko the Bonsai-ent
You can see the rest of my workshop here:
Prophet9
If you like it, please vote it up!
Cheers.
s4's never been on the higher ups in terms of competitive solo mids. There are alot better mids out there like scandal, mushi, rtz, yao. What s4 does really well is his movement and game-sense, which is why he shines so much on magnus and puck, heroes that do extremely well when they're in the right place at the right time.
Bulldog can honestly only play 2 heroes competitively, and unless he puts some serious time into learning other heroes, he's going to be one of the biggest burdens in competitive dota.
Akke and EGM are still spectacular supports, and I still think Akke is one of the best in the scene, but Alliance's gameflow just doesn't seem the same because alot of it relied on Bulldog's timing on his syllabear or the constant pressure from his furion. Thus, they don't seem as responsive, b/c they can't afford to leave Loda to his own.
Legit just give bulldog 3 months or replace him, and Alliance will once again be an A tier team.
Bulldog can honestly only play 2 heroes competitively, and unless he puts some serious time into learning other heroes, he's going to be one of the biggest burdens in competitive dota.
Akke and EGM are still spectacular supports, and I still think Akke is one of the best in the scene, but Alliance's gameflow just doesn't seem the same because alot of it relied on Bulldog's timing on his syllabear or the constant pressure from his furion. Thus, they don't seem as responsive, b/c they can't afford to leave Loda to his own.
Legit just give bulldog 3 months or replace him, and Alliance will once again be an A tier team.
How am I supposed to get better and have higher solo que rank with these people? For every good game or team I get, there's 5 games with horrible, horrible people
http://dotabuff.com/matches/460487582
AM and CM were together
AM went to lane with one set of tango and a glove, CM didn't buy a courier and only answered and said "yeah yeah later" after we asked her 3 times, I just bought it instead and she was completely useless the entire game.
They both fed at least 5 or even more kills in the first few minutes and of course AM then complains that no one is coming to gank when its only a few minutes into the game and they already fed
The funny thing is they both have loads of commends, especially the AM.
I know it doesn't mean too much because I've seen bad players with a lot of wins as well, but it is kinda funny.. I wonder if people trade for commends
http://dotabuff.com/matches/460487582
AM and CM were together
AM went to lane with one set of tango and a glove, CM didn't buy a courier and only answered and said "yeah yeah later" after we asked her 3 times, I just bought it instead and she was completely useless the entire game.
They both fed at least 5 or even more kills in the first few minutes and of course AM then complains that no one is coming to gank when its only a few minutes into the game and they already fed
The funny thing is they both have loads of commends, especially the AM.
I know it doesn't mean too much because I've seen bad players with a lot of wins as well, but it is kinda funny.. I wonder if people trade for commends
That AM has probably played for a long time, stacked with his inexperienced friend and went for a cheeky Midas rush which makes AM even more useless in lane than he usually is. Combine that with the high-aggression lineup of the enemy, that kind of fucks up a CM+AM dual lane no matter what, and there you go.
Just my shot at explaining that particular match, I'd be salty as well.
They are the sexiest team in Dota2 atm
Demon and fly must have so much fun talking about all their lifting techniques
Dendi reporting people on ability abuse of earth spirit hahaha
haha, that dendi rampage celebration just now, so good.
manfestival
Member
I was wondering, cause I am working and out of nowhere I hear a LOUD celebration from dendi lol
Legit post.
shira
Member
If they are legit friends, I think that takes precedence over team. They already rich if properly invested - I don't see that drive in Loda's eyes like last year. They could totally be content with playing semi-competitive for the next few years living off EG name and TI3 title. Eventually they will get real jobs or work in esports.
Good points. You mention Loda can't be left on his own. Do you think this is a fault of him not being good enough at finding space, or is it just a typical carry thing? How would you say he rates against other top tier carries?
Loda's still a really solid carry player, the thing is, carry's a relatively simple job, and most competitive carry players could probably all be interchanged and they'd get similar results, barring a few exceptional players. Like xboct is one of the most mechanically solid carries, but he just plays so uber aggresive, so he fits well into navi but not so much into other more passive teams.
I think Loda has insane last hitting, very seldom will you see him not outpacing the enemy carry if they're both free-farming. He also does a good job in knowing which fights he should and shouldn't take. Like hard carry heroes are just in a bad spot in the current patch, its too easy to gank them and too rewarding, so carries that are left alone because their supports have to deal with other lanes almost always have to hug their tower or straight up leave the lane.
I still don't like Loda as a person
It really did. Alliance were the kings of split push pre 6.79. I think there was a good balance between deathball/split push strats (obviously oversimplifying all of dota into two general strats, but most often fall into one of these two categories, 4 protect 1 is pretty much dead). The last game of TI3 was a perfect example of this, NAVI played their game (deathball), Alliance played theirs (split push), and the game was a tug of war contest until the end where Navi made a few crucial errors.
With 6.79, the game got faster, and swung wayyyy in the direction of deathball. When Nature's Profit is currently the only split pushing hero that can work in competitive (because he's a split pusher that can still show up to teamfights quickly), you know something is wrong. No lycan, no morphling, no AM, no more PL, Syllabear went from being an offlane split-pusher/team-fight hybrid to a safe lane farmer that pretty much only shows up to deathball, etc... The only place where split push is still a problem is AP pubs where you can insta lock Lycan + Brood. The game has changed, the pendulum is now safely on the side of very early 5 man doto.
Personally I'm hoping 6.80 nerfs furion a tad (to help move the spotlight to other heroes that perform a similar role), fixes brood and puts her back in CM, and perhaps nerfs xp/assist bounty with 4-5 people around.
I think it's far too early to start calling for Alliance players' heads, they did just win around 1.5 million dollars recently. I'd give them some time to adapt, maybe see what 6.80 has in store, and if they completely shit the bed at TI4, then you can talk about the team that nearly went undefeated in TI3 breaking up.
Nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope
screw u kagete
ScottSullivan
Member
Furion is my most hated hero, so annoying to play against, if you aren't ganking him in the jungle by 6:00 you're already dead, and its tough to do on your own so if you're solo queuing and no one is communicating you're doomed to fight against a super famred midas proph
To me it seems that way too many games have been decided by unforced errors or drafts lately. I mean sure, it's fun to watch push strats or tusk tri-lanes sometimes, but if we see that every bo3, sometimes even twice, it starts to lose its appeal. Games decided by stupid errors just suck in general.
Alliance just plays like shit right now, it's hard to see them play with bulldog considering how they played way better as a team with pajkatt as a stand-in. It's clear that they don't have the same type of clear long-term plans for the games anymore, as they can't rely on bulldog getting strong enough every game.
This is my main problem, I really hoped, and thought, that 6.79 would evolve to something were there were more viable strats, and that's what it looked like when it was new. But as you say in the last sentence, 5 man dota seems to reign supreme, and I don't like it at all.
Alliance just plays like shit right now, it's hard to see them play with bulldog considering how they played way better as a team with pajkatt as a stand-in. It's clear that they don't have the same type of clear long-term plans for the games anymore, as they can't rely on bulldog getting strong enough every game.
This is my main problem, I really hoped, and thought, that 6.79 would evolve to something were there were more viable strats, and that's what it looked like when it was new. But as you say in the last sentence, 5 man dota seems to reign supreme, and I don't like it at all.
I guess I'm still not able to read patch notes as well. What specifically caused the change to deathball being more effective?
don't get me wrong I think he's balanced tbh, I just think he still overshadows some of the other split pushers, hence the nerf. also i hope this happens cuz i hate kagete. Altho a straight nerf to furion without any other changes probably won't change anything, furion will just be added to the never picked split pusher list.
In my opinion, the gold inflation (it's been happening slowly over the last few patches with buffs to assist gold, tower gold, and passive gold). Heroes can get their core items a lot more quickly, especially supports, and as soon as you have that mek just 5 man snowball their towers and extend that gold lead. There's no room for split pushing when crucial fights start to happen 10 to 15 minutes into the game rather than 20 to 25 minutes in. Most of these split pushers require some room to begin doing their thing, the earlier you start to demolish their map control, the harder it is for them to split push and be effective--they are forced to teamfight (not their strong suit until they are overfarmed). With the game being faster because of gold inflation over the last 4-5 patches, that window of time split pushers have to get going is now very very small. This is just my opinion of course, I'm not the end all be all dota guru and I'm sure some others out there disagree with me.
PL needed to not be knee jerk nerfed as a reddit reaction (though the nerfs to KOTL/tranquil hit him harder). Hell, I dunno if PL with 25% illusion damage would even be picked in the current meta. As for Lycan, Balancing is a fine line and Lycan is one of those heroes right now that is just so insanely hard to balance, because he's great in pubs and even the slightest meta change could mean he's broken in competitive. I'd like to see Lycan's howl CD reduced to something like a flat 25s or 30s CD at all levels to give him some more early game utility and teamfight utility in general. PL and some of the other agi carries like AM, and faceless Void, I honestly don't know. The game is more fun and better at this fast pace, but at the same time these heroes will never be popular in a meta like this. I'm not in charge of balance but you basically have three choices: leave them as is (rare niche picks), give them a stronger early game (which kind of goes against the design of these heroes), or slow down the pace of the game overall.
I'm not icefrog though so none of what I want or anyone else probably wants makes it into the game. I'm excited to see what he has planned for 6.80 though, 6.79 made a lot of odd heroes viable but this meta could really use some tweaking.
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