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Dota 2 |OT4| The saga of Vade and ReRixo: the Boat Anchors continues.

M

M.D

Member
Divvy said:
If you watch the Na'vi Alliance XMG game, you can see how good blink was on Dendi's Sniper. It gave him the ability to chase heroes that would have normally just ran away safely, let him reposition himself so he wasn't shooting uphill and let him use his MoM safely in teamfights.



They are playing like shit
Click to expand...

how can you run when headshot procs on every hit
 
K

Ketch

Member
Ok so against my better judgement I'm gonna start playing ranked AP when I solo que. I'm definetly wood tier but I've played a little bit of every role, and I feel comfortable with a wide range of heroes. I despise all pick, but I really want to start focusing on improving my game, so I've decided to narrow my hero pool to 3-5 heroes and really try to master them.

So, Who are some good well rounded heroes? Heros that can play multiple roles, aren't going to be instantly counter picked, and will help me learn the game better.

So far my list is Mirana, lone Druid, maybe DK but I question his ability to off lane. What do you guys think?

edit: Also, give me free coaching lessons GAF. You know you want to.
 
D

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
JawesomeJaw said:
Theory craft time! What was the Crystal Maiden on my team last game hoping to accomplish with her Tranquil Boot/ Sange and Yasha rush?
Click to expand...

Moving really fast. Tranquil's gives you the fastest movement speed, even when broken, of any boots outside of Travils. Sange and Yasha is +16% move speed. So together, she moves between 373 and 403.
 
shira

shira

Member
JawesomeJaw said:
Theory craft time! What was the Crystal Maiden on my team last game hoping to accomplish with her Tranquil Boot/ Sange and Yasha rush?
Click to expand...

rylai baka, everyone knows midas refresher is the jam

Ketch said:
Ok so against my better judgement I'm gonna start playing ranked AP when I solo que. I'm definetly wood tier but I've played a little bit of every role, and I feel comfortable with a wide range of heroes. I despise all pick, but I really want to start focusing on improving my game, so I've decided to narrow my hero pool to 3-5 heroes and really try to master them.

So, Who are some good well rounded heroes? Heros that can play multiple roles, aren't going to be instantly counter picked, and will help me learn the game better.

So far my list is Mirana, lone Druid, maybe DK but I question his ability to off lane. What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

iP5EJb70RWk4X.png

If you play medic bear I will watch the replay/stream
 
P

Pratfall

Member
Ketch said:
Ok so against my better judgement I'm gonna start playing ranked AP when I solo que. I'm definetly wood tier but I've played a little bit of every role, and I feel comfortable with a wide range of heroes. I despise all pick, but I really want to start focusing on improving my game, so I've decided to narrow my hero pool to 3-5 heroes and really try to master them.

So, Who are some good well rounded heroes? Heros that can play multiple roles, aren't going to be instantly counter picked, and will help me learn the game better.

So far my list is Mirana, lone Druid, maybe DK but I question his ability to off lane. What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

Windrunner can play most roles (although not a great 1), Silencer is flexible although mega squishy, Phoenix can play most anywhere, and alchemist is always good. Just a few off the top of my head.
 
G

Granadier

Is currently on Stage 1: Denial regarding the service game future
5

52club

Member
I'm just average at dota 2, and feel like blink is overrated for my skill level. It can be totally legit for higher levels, but for me I would rather get movement speed. Heck I much prefer a race car build on some one like bat rider than blink. Sure I suck, but I actually have a lot of sucess with faster movement than blink. Just for reference I am 3300 MMR.
 
C

Chris R

Member
Whaaaaaat? Blink is awesome, even moreso now with no mana cost.

Sure going fast is fine but I'd also want blink if I had to initiate a lasso/ravage/echo slam/ect.

But then again I'm trench tier doto.
 
S

Schweinehund

Member
Ketch said:
Ok so against my better judgement I'm gonna start playing ranked AP when I solo que. I'm definetly wood tier but I've played a little bit of every role, and I feel comfortable with a wide range of heroes. I despise all pick, but I really want to start focusing on improving my game, so I've decided to narrow my hero pool to 3-5 heroes and really try to master them.

So, Who are some good well rounded heroes? Heros that can play multiple roles, aren't going to be instantly counter picked, and will help me learn the game better.

So far my list is Mirana, lone Druid, maybe DK but I question his ability to off lane. What do you guys think?

edit: Also, give me free coaching lessons GAF. You know you want to.
Click to expand...

solo queue is shit and you will become jaded of the game if you take it too seriously.

Mirana is fine, LD has been slowly phased out over the last few months.
 
K

Ketch

Member
shira said:
If you play medic bear I will watch the replay/stream
Click to expand...

I probably can't play medic bear (because the requires more then one item), but I'll definetly post my matches if anybody is willing to give me pointers you know....

There's so much a man can tell you, so much he can say.

Schweinehund said:
solo queue is shit and you will become jaded of the game if you take it too seriously.

Mirana is fine, LD has been slowly phased out over the last few months.
Click to expand...

Yea, I'm worried about that too, but I'll just focus on myself... starting with last hits and not feeding. Also, I doubt it matters what LD's current meta is in my bracket, but do you think he suffers from being really ineffective or easily counter picked?
 
Q

Quesa

Member
52club said:
I'm just average at dota 2, and feel like blink is overrated for my skill level. It can be totally legit for higher levels, but for me I would rather get movement speed. Heck I much prefer a race car build on some one like bat rider than blink. Sure I suck, but I actually have a lot of sucess with faster movement than blink. Just for reference I am 3300 MMR.
Click to expand...

Nah man I'm like 3100 and blink is crucial on so many heroes. Thinking about going blink Lycan just for fun

rac said:
When did the blink dagger fad start?
Click to expand...

When they removed the mana cost for the current patch.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Well it actually started with EE getting Blink on heroes with no real reason to get Blink BUT Icefrog made his assclowning actually viable by removing the cost.
 
S

SamVimes

Member
Haly said:
Well it actually started with EE getting Blink on heroes with no real reason to get Blink BUT Icefrog made his assclowning actually viable by removing the cost.
Click to expand...
I don't know if he did it before this version but blink Drow is legit as fuck, even more than Sniper.
 
D

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
I don't think I have ever been more upset at a team. I have to sell my glove of haste to give our team a courier/wards, our phoenix complains about picks but goes duel lane with the Timber Saw leaving the Terrorblade alone, I have to buy all the wards, courier, detection, and to top it off, the Terrorblade calls the Axe OP all game,
 
Q

Quesa

Member
rac said:
Blink dagger has been popular way before that. Just look at dotabuff, blink is actually a more popular item than BKB.
Click to expand...

It's always been popular, but with the mana cost removed people have started looking at other heroes to put it on.
 
P

Procarbine

Forever Platinum
Hylian7 said:
Seriously though, I can understand that. I am trying to get better about clicking around the map more, I just always have this paranoia that something will happen the moment I take off the "tunnel vision" (like a fucking Mirana arrow out of nowhere, seriously, fuck that hero) which is why I have the bad habit of not doing that sometimes. On top of that you have stressful games that are already frustrating whether I am playing like shit for whatever reason, my teammates are, or we are against some straight up bullshit (TB + Ember = NOOOOPE).
Click to expand...

I think your biggest problem lies in one of the fundamentals of the game, and that's where to look when you're supposedly "tunnel vision"ing on your hero. You actually do tunnel on your hero, which is really, really, really, tremendously bad. Whenever I watch your stream your frame of view around your hero is pretty awful. Since everyone wants to talk about the Shadow Shaman game, here's an example:

http://www.twitch.tv/hylian7/b/518290082?t=13m10s

This is after you've come back from being first blooded. You have the camera focused on yourself, with your hero at the bottom of your field of view as you walk backwards to your tower with no creep wave against a Mirana. You then go and eat the tree farthest from the direct path back and walk back to the tower, get slammed by an arrow, and die. You then declare your hatred for arrows and Mirana. This also results in the death of your Centaur and nearly your BH.

This entire situation could have been avoided had you simply looked at the enemy heroes in the lane that were in your vision. Mirana didn't throw the arrow from the fog, or through trees, she threw it right in front of you and you walked into it. The correct way to play this would have been:

1) Realize you're laning against Mirana, she will try to arrow you because you're retreating alone in front of her creep wave, day 1 Mirana gimmick.
2) Proceed directly back to your tower before the last creep in your wave dies. You're shadow shaman, among the slowest and squishiest heroes in dota, get yourself out and don't present yourself as a target ahead of your centaur. Move command to behind the tower.
3) While you retreat move your camera down and watch what the enemy does.
4) React accordingly

Even in the exact same path you took death could have been avoided if you had kept your hero in the top of your frame rather than the bottom. You would have been able to identify the arrow before it entered the visual traffic of the creep wave and avoided it, hopefully. Think about it: what information do you need from ahead of your hero in this situation? In this case the area behind your tower. The important information was behind your hero, where the enemy heroes are located and trying to kill you.

When controlling your camera always consider where the action is coming from. You don't have to issue a command and watch your hero carry it out in a place where there will be no variables you don't know about or aren't things trying to kill you. Obviously as balance must be struck and you need to be able to catch surprises, you also have to be extra careful when there are invisible or blinking things, as they can interrupt your otherwise safe paths. Another example is, in general, if you're on your way to a teamfight or skirmish you should be looking at that fight on the way there, rather than watching your hero walk there, so you know what's going on in the fight and can plan how best to help. This is probably applicable to most players in this thread as well, so keep this in mind people.

I think you hate Mirana/arrows because of this camera control problem. You don't see them coming and can't react because you aren't looking in the right place. Be more mindful of where you are in the frame to try to maximize your significant vision at all times and arrows will be easier to dodge.

PS: An add on: while I was looking for this clip I saw the first blood as well. You opted to cast a channeling spell out in the open against a Kunkka and Mirana knowing their powerful, slow, skill shot stuns we're off cooldown and available. You ate both of them, died, and said this is why I hate support. That decision making is absolutely abysmal and has nothing to do with playing support. Don't ever present a target that easy to those heroes, of course you're going to die.

PPS: I hope this post isn't wasted on you, camera control is an important and fundamental aspect of Dota and is the most jarring problem I see of yours whenever I watch the stream. It spans all heroes, and improving it will significantly improve your play. Don't ignore this or brush it off as you do many other bits of advice, remind yourself throughout the game, and especially laning, to be aware of where you're looking.
 
G

Granadier

Is currently on Stage 1: Denial regarding the service game future
Procarbine said:
PPS: I hope this post isn't wasted on you,
Click to expand...

I for one hope that people keep getting angry and complain so that you keep making posts like this. That was wonderful to read, and it really highlighted some fundamental issues I have in my play as well.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Procarbine said:
I think your biggest problem lies in one of the fundamentals of the game, and that's where to look when you're supposedly "tunnel vision"ing on your hero. You actually do tunnel on your hero, which is really, really, really, tremendously bad. Whenever I watch your stream your frame of view around your hero is pretty awful. Since everyone wants to talk about the Shadow Shaman game, here's an example:

http://www.twitch.tv/hylian7/b/518290082?t=13m10s

This is after you've come back from being first blooded. You have the camera focused on yourself, with your hero at the bottom of your field of view as you walk backwards to your tower with no creep wave against a Mirana. You then go and eat the tree farthest from the direct path back and walk back to the tower, get slammed by an arrow, and die. You then declare your hatred for arrows and Mirana. This also results in the death of your Centaur and nearly your BH.

This entire situation could have been avoided had you simply looked at the enemy heroes in the lane that were in your vision. Mirana didn't throw the arrow from the fog, or through trees, she threw it right in front of you and you walked into it. The correct way to play this would have been:

1) Realize you're laning against Mirana, she will try to arrow you because you're retreating alone in front of her creep wave, day 1 Mirana gimmick.
2) Proceed directly back to your tower before the last creep in your wave dies. You're shadow shaman, among the slowest and squishiest heroes in dota, get yourself out and don't present yourself as a target ahead of your centaur. Move command to behind the tower.
3) While you retreat move your camera down and watch what the enemy does.
4) React accordingly

Even in the exact same path you took death could have been avoided if you had kept your hero in the top of your frame rather than the bottom. You would have been able to identify the arrow before it entered the visual traffic of the creep wave and avoided it, hopefully. Think about it: what information do you need from ahead of your hero in this situation? In this case the area behind your tower. The important information was behind your hero, where the enemy heroes are located and trying to kill you.

When controlling your camera always consider where the action is coming from. You don't have to issue a command and watch your hero carry it out in a place where there will be no variables you don't know about or aren't things trying to kill you. Obviously as balance must be struck and you need to be able to catch surprises, you also have to be extra careful when there are invisible or blinking things, as they can interrupt your otherwise safe paths. Another example is, in general, if you're on your way to a teamfight or skirmish you should be looking at that fight on the way there, rather than watching your hero walk there, so you know what's going on in the fight and can plan how best to help. This is probably applicable to most players in this thread as well, so keep this in mind people.

I think you hate Mirana/arrows because of this camera control problem. You don't see them coming and can't react because you aren't looking in the right place. Be more mindful of where you are in the frame to try to maximize your significant vision at all times and arrows will be easier to dodge.

PS: An add on: while I was looking for this clip I saw the first blood as well. You opted to cast a channeling spell out in the open against a Kunkka and Mirana knowing their powerful, slow, skill shot stuns we're off cooldown and available. You ate both of them, died, and said this is why I hate support. That decision making is absolutely abysmal and has nothing to do with playing support. Don't ever present a target that easy to those heroes, of course you're going to die.

PPS: I hope this post isn't wasted on you, camera control is an important and fundamental aspect of Dota and is the most jarring problem I see of yours whenever I watch the stream. It spans all heroes, and improving it will significantly improve your play. Don't ignore this or brush it off as you do many other bits of advice, remind yourself throughout the game, and especially laning, to be aware of where you're looking.
Click to expand...

That is indeed why I hate Mirana arrows. I just always the feeling that I have to constantly be making small movements and have to do everything extremely fast. That's a reason I have never really been good at StarCraft or other RTS's. Granted doto is a whole different ball game, the camera control is similar.

I am trying to improve on that though, but it is quite difficult. Thank you though.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Camera control is damn hard for me. I'm getting better at it. Shifting my field of view around me to watch for threats is the easy part, the hard part is then getting it back to my hero in order to send the revised movement command that will save my ass.
 
R

Randdalf

Member
I had a Lion against me in lane yesterday when I was playing Mirana and he kept on mana draining creeps. It was like Christmas had come early, left the lane something like 4-0-3 (and then proceeded to die 4 times in a row accomplishing nothing).

The Technomancer said:
Camera control is damn hard for me. I'm getting better at it. Shifting my field of view around me to watch for threats is the easy part, the hard part is then getting it back to my hero in order to send the revised movement command that will save my ass.
Click to expand...

I'm assuming you know you can double tap your hero button?
 
S

SteveWinwood

Member
Starcraft definitely teaches you some good things, watching the mini map tons, general map "feeling" (they're probably taking an expansion/they're probably taking rosh just thinking about the enemy and what they might be doing), map awareness and camera control, micro but at the end of the day they're still different beasts and that stuff can be learned.

The Technomancer said:
Camera control is damn hard for me. I'm getting better at it. Shifting my field of view around me to watch for threats is the easy part, the hard part is then getting it back to my hero in order to send the revised movement command that will save my ass.
Click to expand...
Do you have your hero set to a key? Double tap it and bam you're back to your selected hero. Absolutely required when playing any micro or illusion hero, and a good habit to get in for any hero.

you just gotta spam that shit all the time for awesome camera control
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Its just the damn reflexes, I don't have the precision to do perfect camera control by minimap and the rapid edge swipes to move the camera in the main screen, well, I'm not fast enough to control them as precisely as I need as quickly as I need in a tense situation.

You know what I would like? A keybinding that, when that key is depressed and the mouse is clicked, centers the camera on that point.
 
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