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Dota 2 |OT4| The saga of Vade and ReRixo: the Boat Anchors continues.
- Thread starter Teknopathetic
- Start date
My first thought when I saw the pick was that they're going to show the other teams how you actually play lycan. I think that was first time lycan won on radiant during the finals, right? Or won on either side?
at least it's a known quantity instead of some out of nowhere wisp morphline wtf they're killing everything strat.
DK aren't unbeatable, but I think that's the thing. You have to beat them. There's no easy strat vs them, like with say EG you shut down universe and RTZ and go from there. You can't out draft them. You just have to outplay them, plain and simple, which ofc is hard cus they are all so individually skilled.
They're still going to kill everything though.
SteveWinwood
Member
whos to say they dont have another never before seen pocket strat they can pull out
theyre using chinas limited tournaments to their advantage where no one really has any experience with them and close to nothing to watch and figure out how they play
a known unknown now if you will
DK played it really smart for the whole tournament though, it's a typical thing their coach likes to do and used to do with EHOME in 2010 (the team that won every single title they were in).
They set up themselves as the "Invoker + Centaur" pickers and demonstrated that they can crush a Radiant Lycan, so when they reach the game with EG ppd is clearly trying to bait them into their "usual" picks to counter it, but what does DK do? They bring their other staple, Tiny+Wisp and completely change the playstyle around. Bane ends up as a terrible pick, and Lycan is outcarried easily by Tiny+Wisp.
And then in game 2 EG takes a page from DK's book and gives them Lycan, but DK actually had a pre-made pocket strat based around Lycan, which was impossible to predict. EG even pulled out their own pocket strat in game 2 but it failed spectacularly because it was probably designed against a much more standard draft.
They set up themselves as the "Invoker + Centaur" pickers and demonstrated that they can crush a Radiant Lycan, so when they reach the game with EG ppd is clearly trying to bait them into their "usual" picks to counter it, but what does DK do? They bring their other staple, Tiny+Wisp and completely change the playstyle around. Bane ends up as a terrible pick, and Lycan is outcarried easily by Tiny+Wisp.
And then in game 2 EG takes a page from DK's book and gives them Lycan, but DK actually had a pre-made pocket strat based around Lycan, which was impossible to predict. EG even pulled out their own pocket strat in game 2 but it failed spectacularly because it was probably designed against a much more standard draft.
yeah that's the thing, they haven't played as much against as many different teams so i was really wondering if they were actually stronger than the big western teams
looks like they answered that question pretty thoroughly
SteveWinwood
Member
We had someone at the beginning of this tournament make a post about how China teams just suck nowadays.
welp
i think china overall has rebounded pretty well since ti3, ig and vg are pretty strong too
Pureauthor
Member
The point is that one team could potentially play 2 Bo3's and then a Bo5 with very little rest in between.
And at the end they go against a DK who have been sitting back and resting the whole day. And with a 1 game advantage.
Well said.
Another thing that kind of makes me sad is no Fear. Sure he can't play, but is he even at the tournament? I haven't seen him. Old man dota might have some insight on how to kill the unkillable (he's done it in the past), and even if he has no idea how to deal with DK I still think it would show some good team solidarity and probably just make them a stronger team overall for TI.
Pureauthor
Member
He's got a busted arm. He can't play.
Omotesando
Member
Yea i know what the point is. So it's good fun it isn't BOA5? This is LAN, go hard or go home.
They just need to grab SEA's best players and then they can win.
Yeah I dont see why they couldnt have Empire vs ig today, theres plenty of time and it would make tomorrow much easier
Technosteve
Banned
Dk win Ti4?
I think they are the most likely to win, DK seems to have Europe strats figured out, and are learning to deal with American GreedBall.
While EE plays a good carry, Fear plays a good utility hero/carry which could be the trump card in a draft.
But, most people have figured out that RTZ is the position 1 player at mid, and making life hell for him (and universe) is to shut down EG entirely.
Was probably a reply towards RTZ twitter. I think it was because on either his or EG's twitter, they said they were going to 'slay' Chinese teams. The Chinese are usually people who show you great respect and appreciation back if you respect them.
Probably Azarkon alt on neogaf. He has one-sided crusade against chinese teams since TI. What I do agree slightly with him is the Chinese new bloods are moving more towards LoL than Dota.
I do think BO1 doesn't suit NaVi and they have this track record of always turning up when it matters.
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
Kept dying pretty fast in engagements as Centaur in the last game, but we won most of the 5 on 5's pretty handily regardless. Nothing I got to survive for longer worked, I didn't notice if they only focused on me. I guess if we won there's nothing to worry about.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/618026465
Anyone know what went wrong? Well besides the fact that I was underfarmed and underleveled most of the game, which might or might not be a result of me dying fast in the first place.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/618026465
Anyone know what went wrong? Well besides the fact that I was underfarmed and underleveled most of the game, which might or might not be a result of me dying fast in the first place.
he can't hear u, milkman slayed him.
I find tranquils are better than treads on Centaur especially for the laning phase. It lets you just walk up to the creep line, hit somebody with double edge and lol, then fall back and wait for regen.
Omotesando
Member
That would be unfair to EG and DK, most of all to EG. Both Empire and IG are bigger losers so they need to be 'punished' by having a harder road to victory. It's the core of this system of winner and loser brackets.
Gully State
Member
Seeing how it's that time of year again, I still don't think the winner's bracket winner should get that one game advantage over the team coming out of the losers bracket in the grand finals. Just by virtue of having to play less games to get to the grand finals should be enough of an advantage.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
I personally like it being a best of three. If the team coming out of the losers bracket wins, it should reset for another best of three.
I just wish it was straight knockout.
I just wish it was straight knockout.
call_kotaku
Member
It goes by who you won or lost versus
Omotesando
Member
Yea but that would mean, DK have to beat EG twice to be champion and EG only have to beat DK once, without any repurcussions. There's a lot of debate about this system and other tournament system. I think the starladder system is the best one. Starladder made the right choice.
Ah ok. I think im just going to avoid it until they implement region blocking, if they ever do.
Gully State
Member
EG has to get there in the first place. They have to play a match for tournament elimination to get to the finals whereas DK wouldn't have to.
Yeah, I rather Bo5 have no advantage. At least its a Bo5, a Bo3 with a 1 game advantage can make for some really underwhelming finals.
Winner's advantage is fair. Every other team get to lose one set and climb back up from the loser's bracket. The undefeated team in the WB shouldn't get stiffed out of an entire set just because they're successful.
Yea I know. But I was trying to say that he could still be there to support his team, and show some solidarity coming up to TI... plus he has a lot of experience and game knowledge that could probably be pretty useful when preparing to face a team like DK, even if he's not actually playing in the games..
I've started playing carry roles instead of support with my regular pub friend team, and we win like 3 in a row. It's because they play really good team fight/mid game orientated heroes, and we kept loosing in the late game before. So even when I have a shitty laning phase (like every game), I get enough room to catch up a little and then hopefully make a big impact in the end when we really need it. It feels really good to have an actual strategy in our lazy pub games instead of just picking the heroes we like and hoping for a W.
Judging from F2P, he doesn't seem to be rolling in the dough. Plane ticket + hotel to Kiev is probably not an insignificant expense for him.
In the second one, is it really his ulti that people think is unbalanced? I though the major issue was Fire Spirits.
Yea, I thought about that. Maybe the team doesn't think it's that big of a deal, I'm probably over analyzing it. I wonder how much they're talking to fear in general while he's on the sidelines.... I really hope he comes back and makes them truly unstoppable instead of just really good. I would love to see a US team go all the way at TI.
Omotesando
Member
DK wouldn't have to because they fucked up everyone without dropping a game, including EG. Thats that, and because of the aforementioned reason, they need another reward.
Some tournaments give DK a 2 points lead, because they beat EG 2-0. If they have beat them 2-1, they only get 1 point. In a BOA5 in the grand final DK only need 1 game to win it all. i find that a bit too much. I think the starladder system is the best one.
It's the entire kit, not really any one thing.
Dive: Manaless get-out-of-jail-free slow and nuke.
Fire Spirits: Highest damage ceiling out of any spell in the game (except Maledict), long range, AoE, attack speed slow
Laser: Probably the only skill that's kind of balanced, and it's still pretty broke. Vision, heal, true damage, scales with HP, AoE, flying pathing.
Supernova: Huge AoE burn and stun, invincible, refresher, cheese
Phoenix has, like, every mechanic in the game except for illusions and manaburn.
Dive: Manaless get-out-of-jail-free slow and nuke.
Fire Spirits: Highest damage ceiling out of any spell in the game (except Maledict), long range, AoE, attack speed slow
Laser: Probably the only skill that's kind of balanced, and it's still pretty broke. Vision, heal, true damage, scales with HP, AoE, flying pathing.
Supernova: Huge AoE burn and stun, invincible, refresher, cheese
Phoenix has, like, every mechanic in the game except for illusions and manaburn.
Omotesando
Member
This guy gets it.
Single Elimination is boring to watch though, its only good in that its usually concise.
But the Lower Round 3 and Lower Final are both best of 3!
I see where you are coming from in why its fair.
Omotesando
Member
Single elimination makes sense in bigger tournaments, like the International, where 16 teams compete. The loser brackt system is in its core a much more fair system, but in a tournament like the international that would be impossible, because money and such as it would need a full two weeks to complete the tournament. This is dota not the friggin world cup.... A group stage + single elimination is the most obvious solution.
Starladder has only 8 teams and the loser bracket system can be completed in a long weekend and in this case they naturally opted for this system.
Gully State
Member
Yeah, you're stacking the deck way too much in favor of the winner. You need parity for the last match.
They don't. By virtue of winning the winner's bracket they are guaranteed 2nd place money without having to play extra matches and face elimination. That's a huge advantage already.