• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Dota 2 |OT5| TECHIES!!!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
No, because it's soul-crushing to play against and to watch. It enables some very amazing turnarounds, but the payoff, as a viewer and as a player, is not always worth it, unless you're on the winning team.

Hey man, ti3 grand finale couldn't have been better, probably the best dota game I have ever watched and that was all because of rat dota.

Sure, slow siege PL and Naga can be annoying and Tinker is just a gigantic cunt, but that doesn't mean all split-push strats are boring and stupid. They can sometimes lead to the most amazing comebacks, like you said, and comebacks usually make for the most exciting games.

So it is soul-crushing to play against because it can completely turn a game around? If it can so easily turn a game around what makes it not broken?

Also what should I be using for my camera settings now that I'm not longer using WASD for camera and instead using my mouse?

Saying "split-push is broken" is akin to saying "teamfighting is broken." More games are decided by 5v5 teamfights these days rather than split push, but dota has always been a game where multiple strats can work and that's what makes it so fun. The variety of gameplay is what has drawn me to this game for 8+ years and I hope that never changes. Dota is like chess and there are plenty of picks and counter-picks that vary from strat to strat, it's just all about the draft, what you're trying to accomplish with it, and simultaneously anticipating what the enemy wants to accomplish and how you're going to stop them from doing that.

tldr: every strat can be broken depending on how well it counters the enemies' strat.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
DAT WISP DOE.
So it is soul-crushing to play against because it can completely turn a game around?
No, it's soul-crushing to play against because it requires both teams to split up their forces and ruins the potential of team engagements. It is the opposite of "Roam as 5" strats intent on breaking the other side and clearing a path to rax. It is waiting slowly and steadily for the slightest of advantages to build over time due to a prolonged siege to turn the tide one way or another, meaning everything leading up to that point is mostly mindless PvE and fountain trips.

If it can so easily turn a game around what makes it not broken?
The thing is, it can't. Except in pubs, and not every pub-star Tinker/Furion can pull it off. It requires just as much discipline on the part of the split-pushing team as it does the defending team. The only difference is, a split-push teams knows exactly when they're split-pushing, and maybe even picked for it, but the defending team needs to react and adapt, and their current itemization might not survive a siege-y grindy games. That level of coordination is low in pubs, so when people turn around games by shifting to split-push, people go "OMG FUCK THIS WUSSY ASS SHIT."

Also what should I be using for my camera settings now that I'm not longer using WASD for camera and instead using my mouse?
Edge pan? That's pretty much it. I have mousewheel-click and mouse3 bound to Drag Camera, and it's occasionally useful, but it's but no means integral.

What you should be aiming for is to make your right hand as fast and accurate as possible. You want to:

1) Be able to view an area around your hero much larger than what the screen size is using edge panning. Something like 20-30% more. You want have the mouse capturing as much of the opponent's team as possible without obscuring your own hero. You should be constantly leading it ahead of where your hero is walking, occasionally snapping it behind or the sides to check for flanks. Don't make the mistake of keeping your hero in the center of your screen, unless you're in the very middle of a fight.

2) Use the minimap reflexively. If someone shows up on minimap, you need to be able to click it on the minimap to see what's going on. This can last anywhere from 1 second to 10 seconds of full vision. Regardless of how much they're derping into your wards, you want to look at them as fast as possible, check their items (for wards, gem, dust, BKB, Blink) , check what they're doing, and then return to your hero. Practice monitoring the minimap. Runes spawn? Check them (you can bind these but I don't). Someone roaming through jungle? Check river. People diving your teammates under tower? Check to see if a TP is worth it. Opposing TPs to tower? Check for number and capability and decide whether to go in or hold off.

3) You need to do all that while being able to aim your skills properly, particularly Blinks and skill shots like Arrow/Hookshot/Hook. You might not play these heroes, and that's okay, but being able to control the camera and aim your skills simultaneously is the ideal you're aiming for.
 

Razzer

Member
So it is soul-crushing to play against because it can completely turn a game around? If it can so easily turn a game around what makes it not broken?

Also what should I be using for my camera settings now that I'm not longer using WASD for camera and instead using my mouse?

It's not that its op, it's that you never get to fight. If you get wiped in a fight (like Alliance just now rofl) then it's instant, you accept your defeat as being like a man (or something). Rat dota is a slow drawn out affair, where you spend 20-30 mins being gradually ground down, pushing out creep waves.
 
Damn team wiped at bottom lane. They just exploded in seconds.

It's not that its op, it's that you never get to fight. If you get wiped in a fight (like Alliance just now rofl) then it's instant, you accept your defeat as being like a man (or something). Rat dota is a slow drawn out affair, where you spend 20-30 mins being gradually ground down, pushing out creep waves.

I dont mind slowly being pushed. The annoying part for me is chasing them rats. That said, I don't really dislike it and I'm glad with the strategical variety it brings to the game..
 

ViviOggi

Member
Rat doto is fine as long as it doesn't become the single most viable strategy which it isn't even close to currently. I'd even go as far as to say the meta right now is better than it has ever been.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Hey man, ti3 grand finale couldn't have been better, probably the best dota game I have ever watched and that was all because of rat dota.

Sure, slow siege PL and Naga can be annoying and Tinker is just a gigantic cunt, but that doesn't mean all split-push strats are boring and stupid. They can sometimes lead to the most amazing comebacks, like you said, and comebacks usually make for the most exciting games.

I don't mind the active kind that are only using the split-push to force an engagement like Wisp/NP, but PL, Naga and Tinker are just boring to watch unless you really like watching RTZ play Stepmania.
 

aeolist

Banned
I don't mind the active kind that are only using the split-push to force an engagement like Wisp/NP, but PL, Naga and Tinker are just boring to watch unless you really like watching RTZ play Stepmania.

the only part of naga/pl i like to watch is when the illusion damage gets ridiculous and supports start dying to 2 of them

it's pretty funny
 

LiQuid!

I proudly and openly admit to wishing death upon the mothers of people I don't like
I think the 12 second cooldown is too good with 0 mana cost, it should likely be 14 or 15 seconds.

Make the use after hit cd 4 seconds instead of 3 and that alone will make shadowblade more desirable solely as an escape.

Don't even start with this shit people. If blink gets nerfed I'm going to HotS. You're on notice, IceFrog
 
Alliance are definitely back.
Compared to the sleep walking like state they were in sure. Compared to that unreal undefeated state they were in for months no way.

I'm glad they've at least remembered how to play the game for TI, it'll make it more fun.
Don't even start with this shit people. If blink gets nerfed I'm going to HotS. You're on notice, IceFrog
So after TI4 what HotS hero will you play first?
 
Compared to the sleep walking like state they were in sure. Compared to that unreal undefeated state they were in for months no way.

I'm glad they've at least remembered how to play the game for TI, it'll make it more fun.

So after TI4 what HotS hero will you play first?

They're back to being outclassed when not employing gimmicky strats.
 

Mohasus

Member
I don't mind the active kind that are only using the split-push to force an engagement like Wisp/NP, but PL, Naga and Tinker are just boring to watch unless you really like watching RTZ play Stepmania.

Yup, I think it is ridiculous that illusions do the full radiance burn damage, same for feedback.
 

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
Don't even start with this shit people. If blink gets nerfed I'm going to HotS. You're on notice, IceFrog

HotS is literally the single worst game I've ever played in my entire life on this planet, it reminds me of those old ass rail shooters. Imagine LoL mixed with a rail shooter and you come up with the steaming pile of dog-shit that is hots.

I wish I could erase those 2 hours from my brain.

Yup, I think it is ridiculous that illusions do the full radiance burn damage, same for feedback.

They are balanced with those items in mind though, icefrog would have to double or triple the damage output of illusions if they didn't work with diffusal/radiance.
 

LiQuid!

I proudly and openly admit to wishing death upon the mothers of people I don't like
Do these gimmicky push strats work often in pro games? I know they can be easy wins in pub games but pro player seem to be more capable of dealing with early pushing and once a game goes late it's like literally impossible to win.
 
HotS is literally the single worst game I've ever played in my entire life on this planet, it reminds me of those old ass rail shooters. Imagine LoL mixed with a rail shooter and you come up with the steaming pile of dog-shit that is hots.

I wish I could erase those 2 hours from my brain.



They are balanced with those items in mind though, icefrog would have to double or triple the damage output of illusions if they didn't work with diffusal/radiance.

Crytek's MoBA > HotS and I'm not even joking.
 
The dota gods have granted me some mercy and gave me crystal maiden as my daily hero. I do have a question about her skillbuild though. Most guides recommend maxing crystal nova over frostbite, why is that? Frostbite does more damage, costs less mana, has less cooldown and is overall a more significant disable. The only advantages of maxing crystal nova is that it's area of effect damage and has a longer range (+aoe range), but is that enough?
 

Razzer

Member
The dota gods have granted me some mercy and gave me crystal maiden as my daily hero. I do have a question about her skillbuild though. Most guides recommend maxing crystal nova over frostbite, why is that? Frostbite does more damage, costs less mana, has less cooldown and is overall a more significant disable. The only advantages of maxing crystal nova is that it's area of effect damage and has a longer range (+aoe range), but is that enough?

Crystal Nova is pretty.

Edit: Dat fight.
 

FACE

Banned
Wait, wasn't Storm supposed to be invulnerable during ball lightning? I'm pretty sure Silent just took damage from the Pugna ward.

Edit: Nah, he just takes the initial damage.
 

Mohasus

Member
The dota gods have granted me some mercy and gave me crystal maiden as my daily hero. I do have a question about her skillbuild though. Most guides recommend maxing crystal nova over frostbite, why is that? Frostbite does more damage, costs less mana, has less cooldown and is overall a more significant disable. The only advantages of maxing crystal nova is that it's area of effect damage and has a longer range (+aoe range), but is that enough?
Frostbite does less damage when maxed, and that's considering 1 target only.

A level 7 hero offering only a 3s disable in a team fight is pretty sad. Only max it if you are roaming a lot and won't fight for a while. Also, the duration on creeps is the same for every level.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Yes I mean edge pan. Should I leave it at the default setting or change them?

You might want to turn off Camera Acceleration, which I found annoying. It's when the panning starts slow and then speeds up.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom