Support NeoGAF

[sixghost]

is building bfly instead of the 2nd not good?

Butterfly gives +30 agi, +30 attack speed, evasion and damage to the main meepo, only the AGI benefits the other meepos. Eblade gives +40 AGI, +10 STR, +10 INT, which benefits all the meepos. Eblade gives more damage, attack speed, armor, and health to every meepo.

I can't imagine a scenario where you would ever want a butterfly on meepo. Things like Skadi, Eblade, hex, heart, and even manta are all significantly better on the hero. Meepo has item slot issues as is.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I wonder how dumb MoM + Orchid Sniper would be.

Well considering the charge/cooldown nature of his shrapnel, I can't image it would be too great anymore. Maybe before the shrapnel change when you could spam it every time it came off of cool down it could have been okay in the occasional oddball build. But now? Shrapnel only cost 50 mana to pop and require 40 seconds per charge to restore them. So what do you really need the kind of mana regen that orchid offers for? And headshot just doesn't justify purchasing an item that slows your carry potential.

but hey...try it in a match and see what you think? But unless your goal is to spam headshot, I'd go with normal auto-attack carry items. Even then, just get a bottle or a soul ring.

edit: not headshot, Assassinate. sorry you know what I meant!

 

[sixghost]

Well considering the charge/cooldown nature of his shrapnel, I can't image it would be too great anymore. Maybe before the shrapnel change when you could spam it every time it came off of cool down it could have been okay in the occasional oddball build. But now? Shrapnel only cost 50 mana to pop and require 40 seconds per charge to restore them. So what do you really need the kind of mana regen that orchid offers for? And headshot just doesn't justify purchasing an item that slows your carry potential.

but hey...try it in a match and see what you think? But unless your goal is to spam headshot, I'd go with normal auto-attack carry items. Even then, just get a bottle or a soul ring.

The only time I've ever seen that build it was to constantly spam his ult, which actually has a really short cooldown at a high mana cost. We lost the game late, for what it's worth.

 

[G.ZZZ]

80% wr boys i lost the stupidest game where a 4.5k shitter support just stood my lane all time contesting my farm and never bought a single ward for the first 15 mins, bloodseeker and me as sniper had to. Seeker was also just plain bad, and the offlaner was shit tier too, 4.5k doto LELOLZ. The funniest thing is that even if we lost like 10-40 i still had the most damage in the game http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1123717692

This game was so depressing because even if i was dealing a lot of damage every fight people just refused too play humanly and rubick went solo farm over the river like 10 times in a row, and timber did the same. There's nothing you can say to those players but uninstall please.

Show you how absurdly bad are some players, just stopping playing altogether and feeding non-stop after first death because "lolol i don't carea nymore".

Tank sniper is Aquila, treads, wraith, Mjollnir, SnY into halberd->butter. Without the ministuns mom isn't worth it anymore you get manfighted by anything, better stack stats.

EDIT: next game i got 2 randomers -> repick in my team. Ok Valve, i see i have to lose this one too. And obv the repicker on Ursa has no idea what to do with the hero and we lose after 70 mins where we were always up on kills. Fuck those shitters, go play unranked AR and stop ruining.

 

[NormalFish]

Butterfly gives +30 agi, +30 attack speed, evasion and damage to the main meepo, only the AGI benefits the other meepos. Eblade gives +40 AGI, +10 STR, +10 INT, which benefits all the meepos. Eblade gives more damage, attack speed, armor, and health to every meepo.

I can't imagine a scenario where you would ever want a butterfly on meepo. Things like Skadi, Eblade, hex, heart, and even manta are all significantly better on the hero. Meepo has item slot issues as is.

I didn't realize Eblade gave so much more stats. I never build it lol.

 

[inkls]

inkls pls

you just dont recognize the brilliance of it.

 

[Nymerio]

Today I was reminded why I don't play ranked all pick. During the planning phase and during picking we discussed who is going mid with what hero. Some guy last picks pudge and flames the team because we did not set the lane indicator for mid.

 

[Gentle Rodriguez]

Oh Envy

"Stop flaming you fucking piece of shit"

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Oh Envy

"Stop flaming you fucking piece of shit"

it's like that some nights.

 

[Razzer]

Whitebeard is just another average support player, Ush could be a new star player. If EG is picking up Whitebeard they could as well pick the milfstache. But honestly i don't know any new good support player coming out of the NAscene, sadly all the new "names" are midders/farmers and for the usual reasons (difficult to get recognition as support players etc...). Tralf is a possible name but it's hard to evaluate a support player outside of his team.

It really is a problem, the fact that star supports are the hardest to come by, yet you need 2 supports on every team, so you can never fucking find anybody.

Spoiler

I may have thought Ush was a support when I made the initial post, brain fart.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

I'm so shit with FV, I don't know why. How to farm and gank with him properly? What item build should I use?

Also thanks to you guys I got Doom, Necro, Jugg down pat. All your advices have been awesome.

 

[Haly]

I'm so shit with FV, I don't know why. How to farm and gank with him properly? What item build should I use?

Start: Treads > MoM > Maelstrom
Initiator: Aghs > Refresher
Hard Carry: BKB > Daedelus/MKB > Mjolnir > Butterfly

Safe lane: QWEEE
Offlane: QWQWQ

The moment you hit six, buy a TP and look for easy Chrono kills. Snowball those kills into mid game by going hard carry or forcing team fights as an initiator.

 

[FACE]

Start: Treads > MoM > Maelstrom
Initiator: Aghs > Refresher
Hard Carry: BKB > Daedelus/MKB > Mjolnir > Butterfly

Safe lane: QWEEE
Offlane: QWQWQ

The moment you hit six, buy a TP and look for easy Chrono kills. Snowball those kills into mid game by going hard carry or forcing team fights as an initiator.

I think Refresher is really good even if you're playing position 1 Void.

 

[Haly]

Depends on how good you are with the Chronos and if you actually need a second Chrono. If you can get the job done in one, and you should, then Refresher is just really expensive insurance.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

It's official.

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1123863703

Support Zeus + Soul Ring is *the* anti-Techies pick. Techies didn't end with only 8k damage in 40 minutes because of poorly placed mines. It was because Zeus made it his job to be the team's bomb diffusing expert.

 

[FACE]

Depends on how good you are with the Chronos and if you actually need a second Chrono. If you can get the job done in one, and you should, then Refresher is just really expensive insurance.

I dunno man, double chrono + double BKB seems too good to pass up on.

Spoiler

But I'm the worst void SA so no one should ever listen to me when it comes that hero

 

[FlutterPuffs]

It's official.

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1123863703

Support Zeus + Soul Ring is *the* anti-Techies pick. Techies didn't end with only 8k damage in 40 minutes because of poorly placed mines. It was because Zeus made it his job to be the team's bomb diffusing expert.

Zeus against Techies is just plain fun.

 

[Syn23]

so tl;dr is 'for no really good reason'?

Late reply, but basically i'd say "for no really good reason, just to be sure to don't give chinese authorities any possible reason to potentially delay the review process/release of our game".


If that voluntary self-censorship makes them sure the game is released asap, I can't blame them, honestly.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Zeus against Techies is just plain fun.

I guess because I've never played Zeus support in 200 games with him, it never really occurred to me. That shit was amazing.

Also shout out to NP who would always send one of his treeants scouting the usual spots for bombs so we didn't have to. Never seen a Techies so handicapped pre-6. Feels good to have good help.

 

[inkls]

I dunno man, double chrono + double BKB seems too good to pass up on.

Spoiler

But I'm the worst void SA so no one should ever listen to me when it comes that hero

Its more you/your team not picking void with a team that synergies with him or picking him into a team that doesn't synergies well than anything. I mean, apart from u being trash.

Spoiler

kappa

 

[kvk1]

If there actually is a Dendi/Puppey/Kuro reunion I will freak out.

 

[Wonderboy91]

Start: Treads > MoM > Maelstrom
Initiator: Aghs > Refresher
Hard Carry: BKB > Daedelus/MKB > Mjolnir > Butterfly

Safe lane: QWEEE
Offlane: QWQWQ

The moment you hit six, buy a TP and look for easy Chrono kills. Snowball those kills into mid game by going hard carry or forcing team fights as an initiator.

Honestly I think you might want to consider a E invested skillbuild even in the offlane so you can abuse the level disparity and kill their support at lvl 6.

 

[Haly]

If I'm in the offlane, I'm playing like a Tide with built in Blink.

I'm not going to muck about with a 700 range Blink. I have seen my fair share of FVs get stomped by a gank or miss a Chrono because their Time Walk is so pathetically short. Not for me, no thanks.

 

[ElyrionX]

Couple of months away from this game and Jakiro is core now? Wtf. What else did I miss?

 

[SteveWinwood]

Couple of months away from this game and Jakiro is core now? Wtf. What else did I miss?

everything

 

[NormalFish]

Couple of months away from this game and Jakiro is core now? Wtf. What else did I miss?

Zeus is support, Bloodseeker is support

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Zeus is support, Bloodseeker is support

Correction: both are now everything men.

 

[NormalFish]

Correction: both are now everything men.

Honestly think they're both shit as anything but a support. Totally outclassed in their roles.
**
I should rephrase. They're both so insubstantially better with farm that you might as well farm something else.

 

[Ember Spirit]

Honestly think they're both shit as anything but a support. Totally outclassed in their roles.
**
I should rephrase. They're both so insubstantially better with farm that you might as well farm something else.

doesn't s4 play core zeus sometimes

it seems alright

 

[NormalFish]

doesn't s4 play core zeus sometimes

it seems alright

I think the only time core zeus is worth the slot is when you need zeus' kit as well as 2 other support kits. Not necessarily good, just necessary.

 

[Wonderboy91]

If I'm in the offlane, I'm playing like a Tide with built in Blink.

I'm not going to muck about with a 700 range Blink. I have seen my fair share of FVs get stomped by a gank or miss a Chrono because their Time Walk is so pathetically short. Not for me, no thanks.

I mean like, skip W. Something like QEQEQR or QEEQER.

 

[Haly]

Skipping W in the offlane is suicide! More than offlane void already is.

 

[Drkirby]

Jugg is a beast now. Won 3 of the 4 games I played him tonight. Very flexible in terms of what items you can build. I actually like picking up treads on him, with the low mana pool Jugg gets so much value out of tread toggling, and the attack speed is great. Better for games where you are on of the two side lanes and you aren't the one who has to chase down the enemy.

I think a value point in crits early is really worth while now.

 

[Wonderboy91]

Skipping W in the offlane is suicide! More than offlane void already is.

I don't know. I've heard people I trust more than myself say that backtrack isn't a great value point. I feel like if you can't timewalk away from something you're probably just dead either way. I'd prefer the chance at killing the support or maybe even the carry when I hit level 6.

 

[twobear]

i bet alliance will be in touch with me v. soon to ask about joining

wow @ this shocking revelation killing the thread tho

 

[ElyrionX]

Zeus is support? Interesting. Is he any good? How do you build hin?

 

[SteveWinwood]

is grandgrant actually good at this game?

ive never seen him play just shitpost around certain corners

 

[FlutterPuffs]

Honestly think they're both shit as anything but a support. Totally outclassed in their roles.
**
I should rephrase. They're both so insubstantially better with farm that you might as well farm something else.

depends honestly.

Zeus is my go to hero to just wreck shit in pubs. Thanks to Mushi for showing me the way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6UNkGxoWeg

 

[Madouu]

is grandgrant actually good at this game?

ive never seen him play just shitpost around certain corners

he's ok

 

[Qvoth]

I like this one

xboct is out! yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees
if this is true navi is fucking BACK
so zai doesn't like staying on eg because he can't play support? i find that selfish, kuroky played support so xboct can carry and he didn't complain until xboct finally went super shit mode

 

[NormalFish]

depends honestly.

Zeus is my go to hero to just wreck shit in pubs. Thanks to Mushi for showing me the way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6UNkGxoWeg

Pubs are a different story, for sure. In tryhard srsbsns games though, I think my point stands.

In pubs CK is actually usable, so that's really not a good metric ;D

 

[FlutterPuffs]

Pubs are a different story, for sure. In tryhard srsbsns games though, I think my point stands.

In pubs CK is actually usable, so that's really not a good metric ;D

Nah, Zeus can.

What's with people underrating him lately? He can really wreck shit if played right.

 

[NormalFish]

Nah, Zeus can.

What's with people underrating him lately? He can really wreck shit if played right.

But is he better than Storm/QoP/Necro/Any of the other magic damage nukers? His utility (vision) is totally independent of farm, where as, say, Necro needs farm to be effective. Unless -- like I said -- there's a need for both 2 others supports' kits and Zeus' vision, he's just outclassed.

 

[Divvy]

Necro is such a disgusting hero

I fed three kills including first blood to a solo weaver in the first 15 minutes cuz I'm an idiot, and still ended up winning the game as the highest KDA hero in the game.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Honestly think they're both shit as anything but a support. Totally outclassed in their roles.
**
I should rephrase. They're both so insubstantially better with farm that you might as well farm something else.

idk man. Feeling pretty good about my 60% win rate and 5.09kda after 200 matches with him.

ymmv. There's nobody I expect to win more with.

But is he better than Storm/QoP/Necro/Any of the other magic damage nukers? His utility (vision) is totally independent of farm, where as, say, Necro needs farm to be effective. Unless -- like I said -- there's a need for both 2 others supports' kits and Zeus' vision, he's just outclassed.

Depends on what you need done. Storm and QoP are chosen for their initiation and pickoff ability. Necro is chosen for his ability to buy an aghs and kill a critical hero later without buyback and keep pushes moving forward with mass heal bombs. Zeus is chosen when you want to get an entire team down to 50% hp before the fight even starts and bkb's are activated, insta-cancelling blink initiators, free map checking, free dewarding and one of the stongest early and midgame damage kits in Dota. It's about what you need. There is no single solution for any position. Nobody bursts like Zeus in the first 25 minutes of a game.

Also, he needs minimal farm to get his items. He farms heroes.

And pros seem to have figured out that he can do all of that, as he's been murdering some of the best players in Dota2 lately.

 

[ElyrionX]

So Zeus is viable as hard support? Doesn't he need the levels pretty badly?

 

[Dreams-Visions]

So Zeus is viable as hard support? Doesn't he need the levels pretty badly?

Zeus wants levels. He's not a #5. #4 at the lowest. That said, as a #4, he can do quite a bit just roaming around with soul ring spamming the nuke and dewarding. That has its own value.

 

[Anuxinamoon]

oh man I forget to check this thread for a while, the lmfao when I catch up.

I love you gaf dota2

 

[Dreams-Visions]

oh man I forget to check this thread for a while, the lmfao when I catch up.

I love you gaf dota2

we love you too, madam. carry on being awesome.

 

[Pratfall]

pros dont build pipe enough. build pipe, beat zeus.