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[Patryn]

So, overall verdict on the game from you guys? Still deliberating on whether to buy or not. Also, have the Nvidia card performance issues been solved yet?

As has been said, average to mediocre. There are glimpses of nice writing hidden in it, but from my perspective (deep into Act 2), it suffers the same problem as ME2: It's a series of vignettes that don't really add up to anything.

And enough can't be said about the recycled dungeons: People are not kidding when they talk about them. There are literally about six total dungeons in the entire game. Every quest, every sidequest just uses a version of those six dungeons. By the end of Act I, you will apparently have almost literally seen every location in the game. Sure, they may have different names, but they'll have the exact same layout, and with one exception thus far for me, look exactly the same. People joke, but it's true: I can practically navigate some of these places with my eyes closed at this point.

Basically, it's clearly a game that got released a couple of years too early.

 

[Gvaz]

A Bioware designer (or at least said he was) on SA mentioned that this had about a 1 year dev cycle, as in actual time spent on the assembly.

That's impressive, though you can see where this came from then. Was there anything released in a year that was decent?

 

[Enduin]

So, overall verdict on the game from you guys? Still deliberating on whether to buy or not. Also, have the Nvidia card performance issues been solved yet?

Universally everyone pretty much agrees the game was rushed and there was a lot more Bioware could have done, but other than that opinions do vary a lot. I still loved the game a lot, possibly more than Origins, dungeon recycling didnt really bother me till the final act and some undeveloped plot points were really my biggest complaint. Other than that I really enjoyed the pacing and setting and most especially the companions. Combat as well for me was more enjoyable than Origins, though at times a bit unbalanced.

If youre the kind of person who needs a big grand plot with clearly defined goals and an epic conclusion, then you might want to wait on this. But if youre interested in a more limited story with a number of smaller plots and some interesting side quests then I think its worth a go at full price.

 

[subversus]

A Bioware designer (or at least said he was) on SA mentioned that this had about a 1 year dev cycle, as in actual time spent on the assembly.

That's impressive, though you can see where this came from then. Was there anything released in a year that was decent?

Left 4 Dead 2.

 

[Sir Garbageman]

So, overall verdict on the game from you guys? Still deliberating on whether to buy or not. Also, have the Nvidia card performance issues been solved yet?

I think I like the game more than most around these parts. To put a score on it I'd give it an 8 / 10. It's a coin flip for me whether I like DA:O more or DA2 more to tbh. DA:O felt like the more complete game but DA2 has better combat and better companions. I also like the more "personalized" narrative.

 

[Hari Seldon]

The game is pretty damn good for only 1 year dev cycle. If they had enough time to not recycle the dungeons and locations, and create interesting combat scenarios by not using spawning enemies (likely an issue due to time - it takes time to balance every encounter), then the game would be perfect.

The combat is pretty damn fun, even on PC. The graphics are not terrible on Very High with the high res texture pack and DX11. I'm still in Act 3, but I really dig the way the story developed in this game. I like the smaller, personalized focus on the protagonist. The city and characters are much more alive for me in this game compared to the generic crap that was in DA:O. I'm definitely digging the story in this game far more than DA:O.

 

[John Harker]

I still don't get the whole "DA2 has way better companions" bit.

I like them, I think most are pretty well written, but there really isn't anyone who I'd want to kick back and have a beer with. Well, aside from Isabella. All Carver, Anders, and Fenris ever talk about are Templars and Slave Masters - not a lot going on there. Aveline's alright but a bit too uptight and single-minded in her duty. Merrill I like as she seems innocent over naive, but I don't really see her "growing" at this point. Varrik I find entertaining/interesting as a twist on traditional dwarves, while Isabella's the good-time cast member (albeit intimidating).

Allistar and Oghren were just fun. Allister was a bit of a dolt but at least he was comedy relief. Oghren didn't give a shit about much and I found his attitude refreshing, most people in DA2 are deathly serious constantly. Shale had a great wit as well, and Morrigan had attitude to spare herself. Lelinna with her accent at least could spin a good tale, and talked of distance lands of home which I found foreign and interesting.

It's a bit of a toss up in my mind, case by case, but you just seem most people cite DA2 as superior regarding characters overall and I don't really see it as black and white.

 

[subversus]

Well, it's a great game for one year of full production.

But Bioware != quality for my anymore. From now on I will proceed with caution.

 

[Revolutionary]

Got this game from Gamefly yesterday for PS3... just wow at the lack of autoattack. I'm pretty much sitting there spamming X and occasionally pressing the other buttons. Accidental omission of the autoattack code my balls - they just wanted to make this game feel like some kind of dudebro hack n slash.

 

[JoeBoy101]

The game is pretty damn good for only 1 year dev cycle. If they had enough time to not recycle the dungeons and locations, and create interesting combat scenarios by not using spawning enemies (likely an issue due to time - it takes time to balance every encounter), then the game would be perfect.

The combat is pretty damn fun, even on PC. The graphics are not terrible on Very High with the high res texture pack and DX11. I'm still in Act 3, but I really dig the way the story developed in this game. I like the smaller, personalized focus on the protagonist. The city and characters are much more alive for me in this game compared to the generic crap that was in DA:O. I'm definitely digging the story in this game far more than DA:O.

Agreed with everything (except about the city being alive, it about as dead as Denerium).

But still, 1 year dev cycle. Can't help but wonder how outwardly awesome the game would have been if it had been a 2 year dev cycle.

I still don't get the whole "DA2 has way better companions" bit.

Agreed on Carver, Fenris, and Anders. But those are bad examples. I can totally see having an ale with Isabella and Varric. And though Merrill is initially ignorant, she's a sweet person who can have fun. Sure, Aveline is stuck up, but she's still a layered character with a very dry sense of humor (

Spoiler

especially with how her and Isabella become friends(how come I didn't get invited to her solistice party?)

).

Alister you can have a beer with, but only one, because after that his sarcastic shtick gets old. Oghren is good, granted, but is definitely the stereotypical dwarf. Frankly, looking back at the Origins companions, Shale and Sten are the really the only major standouts for nuanced writing.

 

[spandexmonkey]

I'm really enjoying the game so far (just completed ACT 1). The change to the combat really helped, made it much more fun, but the best thing they did was pulling the story back a bit and letting you get to know the characters/world without impending doom. I wish more RPGs would take this approach.
The reused dungeons can be bad, but I found it tolerable. My only real gripes are the lack of weapon/armor variety so far, and the line delivery. It bugs me in TV dramas and it irritates me in Bioware games. This whole talk, talk, talk, turn around for no reason and walk away. Talk, talk, talk, turn back around. More lines to deliver? Turn side ways and walk, then talk, talk talk. Can they really not give the characters something else to do while they talk? I'm convinced the character just farted and needs to walk away from the vapors.

 

[Confidence Man]

But still, 1 year dev cycle. Can't help but wonder how outwardly awesome the game would have been if it had been a 2 year dev cycle.

Or if they didn't try to "evolve" the genre. If they had taken DA1 and spent all their time producing content for a sequel instead of ripping features out and Mass Effecting everything for consoles it might have been a better game that didn't piss off the fans.

 

[Patryn]

For Merrill, I think a little goes a long way. Because while I liked her at first, she's REALLY beginning to annoy me she's so fucking naive. "Mirror Image" quest spoilers:

Spoiler

It doesn't help that she's all Blood Magic, yay! Despite all the atrocities that we're witnessing that are the result of Blood Magic. It's why I laughed when I brought Fenris on the "Mirror Image" quest, and on the way out Merrill muses "Why did Pol think I was a monster?" and Fenris retorted, in the nastiest tone possible "You ARE a monster," because I was kind of thinking the same thing, but I couldn't say anything, because I'm trying to be friends with everybody.

It's a shame that the two best companions, Varric and Isabella, are both rogues (and it doesn't help that a friended Isabella is a broken gameplay cancer for the main character), especially since I play a rogue.

Like, in terms of Varric (minor banter spoilers):

Spoiler

I love how he's secretly paying off the underworld to leave your team members alone. I think one of my favorite banters was Merrill and Varric in Darktown, and Merrill talking about how she loved wandering down there, and it has such an undeserved reputation, and Varric tells her that for the love of the maker she needs to stop doing that because he's going broke.

 

[Enduin]

I still don't get the whole "DA2 has way better companions" bit.

I dont think its that one cast is better than the other or that the writing was better in one or the other. Really I think it all comes down to presentation, and for me DA2 did it way better. So while some of the DAO companions personalities and stories were better than DA2s, and vice versa, just the way I got to know all the DA2 characters was far more engaging and fun.

I liked how everyone seemed to have their own lives and didnt just hang around at my house or something waiting for me to choose them. I liked going to meet one of them and first getting treated to them talking to another of my companions like they were just hanging out. Their role in conversations and ability to jump in felt more natural and in a number of areas bringing a companion to a location would spark a convo naturally. Most importantly though was the fact that there was so much more party banter and time/area/quest specific banter, it made things feel way more natural and alive.

 

[Zeliard]

I think DA:O has a better overall cast of companions but the character interactions with them and among them in DA2 are done more effectively and in greater amount.

 

[kitzkozan]

Well, it's a great game for one year of full production.

But Bioware != quality for my anymore. From now on I will proceed with caution.

Yeah, a developer who is focused on quality shouldn't release an rpg after one year of production. The game probably got rushed to the market so that it could be released in EA Q4. Pleasing investors is more important than pleasing game fans for a company like EA who is run by business people.

 

[Vagabundo]

Yeah, a developer who is focused on quality shouldn't release an rpg after one year of production. The game probably got rushed to the market so that it could be released in EA Q4. Pleasing investors is more important than pleasing game fans for a company like EA who is run by business people.

Investors will be sad if it does worse than DA:O. Which I'm hoping it does.

 

[TheUsual]

I'm trying to play this again (mentioned earlier I'm playing again as femHawke mage), but I just can't. I think I just maxed out my enjoyment on playthrough one. I could go around and try different approaches

Spoiler

(side with the Templars, but come one, a mage siding with the Templars in this game).

And the mage class feels a bit boring. Looking back, my Rogue felt completely overpowered.

 

[Rufus]

I'm trying to play this again (mentioned earlier I'm playing again as femHawke mage), but I just can't. I think I just maxed out my enjoyment on playthrough one. I could go around and try different approaches

Spoiler

(side with the Templars, but come one, a mage siding with the Templars in this game).

And the mage class feels a bit boring. Looking back, my Rogue felt completely overpowered.

Just look up some party banter videos on Youtube, that's about as interesting as another play-through is going to get anyway. Maybe read up on what can happen to Carver/Bethany and, yeah, that's pretty much it...

 

[Salaadin]

I enjoyed DA:O companions more because of how you actually had to get to know them by talking to them and asking questions. The quest based companion stuff in DA2 feels like the game is saying "Hey you! Merril has something to say! Go see her now!".
A lot of my enjoyment in DA:O came in between missions, talking to each teammate and seeing how they felt about what I was doing, the current situation, and learning about their pasts and such.

Even gifts are handled stupidly. In DA:O, you could find a cat and have no idea who youre supposed to give the cat to unless you took the time to learn who likes cats. In DA2, you find a boat and the game basically says "Bella sure would like that boat!!". Its that level of hand holding that gets to me.

 

[Rufus]

^ I bet you enough people complained about exactly that. Thinking is bad.

Investors will be sad if it does worse than DA:O. Which I'm hoping it does.

Whether or not it 'underperforms' or not, Bioware is going to take fan-feedback into account anyway, which, by their track record can be great or 'what were they thinking?'-bad.

 

[TheUsual]

Just look up some party banter videos on Youtube, that's about as interesting as another play-through is going to get anyway. Maybe read up on what can happen to Carver/Bethany and, yeah, that's pretty much it...

I switched up the characters a bit. In my first playthrough, I had no use for Isabella, but now I'm using her. Can't really use Bethany, but have Carver in every now and again (the banter between him and Avaline is good).

 

[Abylim]

Baw, on act 2, well ending it, and its the same shit over and over. I am a bit dissapointed, i must say.
Same caves or dungeons over and over, and I'm really getting sick of Kirkwall.
Mayhaps this thread was right be so negative =\.

 

[hamchan]

A Bioware designer (or at least said he was) on SA mentioned that this had about a 1 year dev cycle, as in actual time spent on the assembly.

That's impressive, though you can see where this came from then. Was there anything released in a year that was decent?

Yakuza 4, though most assets in that game are recycled from 3.

I suppose it is a decent game in terms of it being made in a year but as a game that is full price and being compared to Bioware's past games and the competition, it's pretty damn bad. I mostly blame EA for this btw. This game could have been awesome if there was an extra year of development.

 

[kitzkozan]

Baw, on act 2, well ending it, and its the same shit over and over. I am a bit dissapointed, i must say.
Same caves or dungeons over and over, and I'm really getting sick of Kirkwall.
Mayhaps this thread was right be so negative =\.

The haters didn't know about the repetitive content actually. They were hating because the game was dumbed down, looked bad and the atrocious marketing didn't help either. I wasn't one of the hater, but simply couldn't defend the product once I knew how much of the content is recycled over and over again.

Mass effect already got more than enough recycled content, which is why I find it insane that they did a second time in DA2.

 

[Rufus]

The banter is the thing I liked the most about this game.
Isabella has some choice interactions with just about anyone, especially Aveline.

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Isabela/Dialogue

Aveline: You're right.
Isabela: About?
Aveline: About knowing who you are.
Aveline: I'm the captain of the guard. I'm loyal, strong, and I don't look too bad naked.
Isabela: Exactly. And if I called you a mannish, awkward, ball-crushing do-gooder, you'd say...
Aveline: Shut up, whore.
Isabela: That's my girl.

Isabela (apparently it's only one L) is over the top, but it pays off in the banter.

 

[Sir Garbageman]

The banter is the thing I liked the most about this game.
Isabella has some choice interactions with just about anyone, especially Aveline.

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Isabela/Dialogue



Isabela (apparently it's only one L) is over the top, but it pays off in the banter.

That exchange had me cracking up. Isabela + anyone and Varric + anyone seems to be your best bet for amusing party banter.

I've rolled with Hawke, Isabela, Varric and Aveline pretty much since the middle of Act I and there have been a ton of classics.

 

[RPGCrazied]

The only thing I had a real problem with in this game was the over use of area's. The whole game had like what... 10? If I had to go to the wounded coast one more time, I was going to barf.

 

[subversus]

The banter is the thing I liked the most about this game.
Isabella has some choice interactions with just about anyone, especially Aveline.

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Isabela/Dialogue



Isabela (apparently it's only one L) is over the top, but it pays off in the banter.

it's better to listen to them and this one is certainly not the best one.

I liked "well, it says... apostate prostitutes... (giggles) apostitutes!". She also has nice banter with Fenris about "fisting".

 

[subversus]

this one is priceless when you hear it, but ok when you read it:

Isabela: You have such pretty hair. What a lovely color.
Aveline: Other children used to laugh at me for having ginger hair.
Isabela: Really? Aww. I bet you were cute. Did you have pigtails?
Aveline: Sometimes.
Isabela: How precious! Little Aveline, running around the village with her flaming orange pigtails streaming behind her...
Isabela: ... and little boys all scattering and screaming for mercy as she approached.
Aveline: Shut up, whore.

oh I found Fenris one. You should hear his voice when he's telling "I'm sorry".

Isabela: So what's with that magical fisting thing you do?
Fenris: I'm... sorry?
Isabela: You know, when you stick your hand into people.
Fenris: Oh. That. Yes. It's a... talent.
Isabela: You could make so much coin with that.

I liked this one also: to appreciate it you should know that Fenris's tattoos were made by slavers in a painful procedure and mark him as a slave

Isabela: I enjoy a man with markings like that.
Fenris: You've enjoyed many, I suspect.
Isabela: Where I come from, they're called "tattoos." Sailors get them all the time.
Fenris: Not made of lyrium, I'd imagine.
Isabela: Not a one. And the pictures are different—usually breasts.
Fenris: I suppose a pair of lyrium breasts tattooed onto my chest would make things better.
Isabela: That's me. I'm a helper.

 

[endaround]

A Bioware designer (or at least said he was) on SA mentioned that this had about a 1 year dev cycle, as in actual time spent on the assembly.

That's impressive, though you can see where this came from then. Was there anything released in a year that was decent?

That screams ass covering to me. DA:O was done in March 2009 save for the console ports and bug fixes. They started work on DA 2 at that time. Which does mean that many of the changes were starting to be implemented before DA:O went on to set Bioware sales records. Mainly my guess is many changes started to happen in response to early builds of ME 2 and the desire to be "cinematic".

2 years is enough time to make a sequel using the same engine. BG2 came out 18 months after BG after all. AC:Brotherhood came out 1 year after AC 2. Now did they spend too much of that time make cinematic cut scenes and redoing the art assets? Possibly but that was a production decision and so it wasn't the boot of EA on their throat (of course Bioware runs the EA RPG division...)

 

[water_wendi]

That screams ass covering to me. DA:O was done in March 2009 save for the console ports and bug fixes. They started work on DA 2 at that time. Which does mean that many of the changes were starting to be implemented before DA:O went on to set Bioware sales records. Mainly my guess is many changes started to happen in response to early builds of ME 2 and the desire to be "cinematic".

2 years is enough time to make a sequel using the same engine. BG2 came out 18 months after BG after all. AC:Brotherhood came out 1 year after AC 2. Now did they spend too much of that time make cinematic cut scenes and redoing the art assets? Possibly but that was a production decision and so it wasn't the boot of EA on their throat (of course Bioware runs the EA RPG division...)

Yeah.. unless Bioware started months after the release of DA:O there is no way that DA2 was being worked on for only 1 year.

 

[Nirolak]

Yeah.. unless Bioware started months after the release of DA:O there is no way that DA2 was being worked on for only 1 year.

I'm trying to refind the interview, but Mark Darrah (the franchise's executive producer) was mentioning it was approximately 18 months, so they definitely didn't start right after Origins, but they didn't wait almost a year either.

 

[Ickman3400]

Well, it's a great game for one year of full production.

But Bioware != quality for my anymore. From now on I will proceed with caution.

Thankfully ME3 will have had around 2 full years if it comes out late this year. They can treat DA like the red headed step child but don't fuck with my ME!

 

[jkanownik]

Yeah.. unless Bioware started months after the release of DA:O there is no way that DA2 was being worked on for only 1 year.

Awakenings + DLC

 

[Nirolak]

Thankfully ME3 will have had around 2 full years if it comes out late this year. They can treat DA like the red headed step child but don't fuck with my ME!

Over two actually.

Also it'll have been more than two years since many of the members of the Dev team stopped working on ME2 and when ME3 ships! That's a long time in game development standards folks.

Source: http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/103/index/5439971&lf=8

 

[water_wendi]

Awakenings + DLC

Well Brent Knowles left Bioware in September 2009. That means that DA2 was already underway before DA:O released in November 2009.

 

[Ickman3400]

Over two actually.

Even better. There's no excuse for that game to not be completely packed with content.

 

[Lostconfused]

Might as well post the exact quote

http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...rid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=223#post389494745

I will say that I am in awe of what they did from a technical standpoint- I simply cannot fathom how they accomplished as much as they did with that deadline. Most dev cycles of a game this size take 4-5 years; DA:O took nearly 7. You also have to factor in that there was no recycling from the first game and between pre-production and the time it takes to QA and gold-push a game you can lose a few months. BioWare games can be even worse about this because of the unusual amount of story variables involved. In essence they produced the vast majority of DA2 in about eight months. Fucking amazing.

 

[subversus]

Well Brent Knowles left Bioware in September 2009. That means that DA2 was already underway before DA:O released in November 2009.

a concept phase. We're talking about ful-blown production like building assets and so on.

yeah, I'm talking about that:

In essence they produced the vast majority of DA2 in about eight months. Fucking amazing.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

I'm trying to refind the interview, but Mark Darrah (the franchise's executive producer) was mentioning it was approximately 18 months, so they definitely didn't start right after Origins, but they didn't wait almost a year either.

But, according to Laidlies, they started before Origins released:

http://www.1up.com/features/dragon-age-2-afterthoughts?pager.offset=3

Granted, in another interview, he also claimed they finished the actual game late last year.

a concept phase. We're talking about ful-blown production like building assets and so on.

Oh. NVM then.

 

[subversus]

Damn, eight months, that's rich.

RPG my ass.

 

[Salaadin]

They did do DLC and a 15 hour expansion for DA:O. Assuming they started right when Awakening was released, that is only a year. If they started when DA:O was released, its still only a year and a half. Obviously, I know nothing about dev cycles and the like but I think its safe to say that it falls somewhere in the 1-2 year range. Still not enough time for the type of game this is.

Well Brent Knowles left Bioware in September 2009. That means that DA2 was already underway before DA:O released in November 2009.

Brent Knowles himself even acknowledges the games short dev cycle.

"I am impressed at how put together the demo is after such a short development cycle. It seemed mostly polished, only a couple minor glitches and whatnot. And these were major engine changes that occurred from DA:O to DA2. So, impressed at the time frame."

http://blog.brentknowles.com/2011/03/14/dragon-age-2-demo/

 

[Nirolak]

If this was largely built in eight months, I'm really curious to see what they can do with an actual development cycle and without rebooting all the art assets.

 

[WanderingWind]

Well, that's all well and good, but what drove the need to punch this out so quickly then? Would 5-6 months and a summer/fall release schedule affected it financially? I don't believe so. Would have it affected it game-wise? It would have had to.

 

[water_wendi]

Concept phase. We're talking about ful-blown production like building assets and so on.

yeah, I'm talking about that:

So they built the assets in 8 months? Thats nice and all but the "DA2 is pretty good for only a year" is an excuse. If we are to believe your side the concept phase lasted from the 4-6 months before DA:O shipped (when Brent Knowles stepped down to let another lead take over DA2 while he helped with the ports) to just a couple months ago. That means the concept phase went from mid-2009 to July 2010?

 

[Nirolak]

Well, that's all well and good, but what drove the need to punch this out so quickly then? Would 5-6 months and a summer/fall release schedule affected it financially? I don't believe so. Would have it affected it game-wise? It would have had to.

Presumably EA wanted Mass Effect and Dragon Age in alternating fiscal years, and March is the last month in this fiscal year.

 

[WanderingWind]

If this was largely built in eight months, I'm really curious to see what they can do with an actual development cycle and without rebooting all the art assets.

Well, it's not going to affect the direction the series has gone in. Stuff like reuse of dungeons and assets and glitches and errors are usually complained about, but accepted. I could live with DA2 being rushed, if the actual direction of the game was more in line with the first game, and less than that of ME. More time wouldn't have fixed that.

 

[Sir Garbageman]

Well, that's all well and good, but what drove the need to punch this out so quickly then? Would 5-6 months and a summer/fall release schedule affected it financially? I don't believe so. Would have it affected it game-wise? It would have had to.

They probably didn't want to crowd the second half of the year with Knights of the Old Republic and ME3 both due up.

 

[Nirolak]

So they built the assets in 8 months? Thats nice and all but the "DA2 is pretty good for only a year" is an excuse. If we are to believe your side the concept phase lasted from the 4-6 months before DA:O shipped (when Brent Knowles stepped down to let another lead take over DA2 while he helped with the ports) to just a couple months ago. That means the concept phase went from mid-2009 to July 2010?

Actually, interestingly enough Dragon Age Origins had three lead designers, Mike Laidlaw, Brent Knowles, and James Ohlen.

Brent Knowles left after Dragon Age: Origins and James Ohlen is living in Austin working on SWTOR, so unless they added more lead designers, Mike Laidlaw is the only one left.