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[shinobi602]

So, what? We're supposed to just pony up the cash to buy a game that we disliked the trailer to, dislike the screenshots to and dislike the press/PR leaks to? Because...why, exactly?

From everything I saw about DA:O from the very beginning, I hated it. The look of it, the combat, the stat tracking, visuals, etc.

Everyone I knew kept saying how amazing it was, so I figured there must be something I'm not seeing. After buying it, I'm glad I listened to them, it was a great game. DA2 is the sequel, and there's only a few noticeable changes.

1.)Artistic style is different
2.)Combat plays faster (but still retains the exact same pause/play mechanics)
3.)Voiced main character and dialogue wheel

I guess if those 3 things absolutely turn you off no matter what...probably should pass it up I guess...it's different than Origins, but none of those things strike a negative difference though...

 

[The Technomancer]

Yup. It could really work. You just need interesting stuff. I could see a throwback isometric parody RPG really working well for an episodic game.

Hell, if I had access to a good engine so I wasn't working from scratch, I'd take a stab at something like that myself. I've got a few good friends with skills in art and game design.

 

[Monocle]

I'm still stuck on like hour 18 in my first DA:O playthrough. Painful as it might be, I think I'm going to start over as a mage. My sword & shield guy bores me, and in combat I probably control Morrigan twice as much as any other character because it's so much fun to nuke people with spells.

Plus, I'm pissed off that I missed my chance to get the Blood Mage specialization from the desire demon. Titballs.

 

[EDarkness]

they could still chat about the game here, instead they chose to bitch about the OT

I came to this thread to get more information about the game and to chat about it since I'm excited about the second game. The OP is funny, and I got a good laugh out of it. I have no real problems with that, but there's just too much noise right now to really have a conversation since so much of the thread is only about the game being "terrible" or the OP being good or bad. The demo thread seemed to be more constructive and I was thinking that the conversations going on in that thread would have migrated to this one, that simply hasn't happened.

That said, I understand people are upset about the current direction, and they have a right to complain about it, but it does make it hard for people who actually like the game to get good conversations going when every other post is about how bad the game is going to be. Anyway, I guess I'm gonna bow out until next week. Maybe things will get better before then.

 

[WanderingWind]

it's different than Origins, but none of those things strike a negative difference though...

To you. They're not negatives to you.

 

[Songbird]

Hell, if I had access to a good engine so I wasn't working from scratch, I'd take a stab at something like that myself. I've got a few good friends with skills in art and game design.

Gaffer Ventrue has created a pair of modules that I remember, one that was all about playable darkspawn before Bio's!

 

[Gvaz]

Plus, I'm pissed off that I missed my chance to get the Blood Mage specialization from the desire demon. Titballs.

I believe you can game that by playing through that bit unlocking it, then load up an old save and because the achievement is unlocked you can spec blood mage whenever.

At least this was the case on the PC.

 

[Zeliard]

I don't think the complainers have even properly looked at the OP. It's four hilarious Bioware quotes, and everything outside of the Metacritic pic flows from that.

Each part is sectioned off and starts with a quote from Bioware. Stuff like the specs comes from the game looking graphically poor to many people, and (this is the critical part) that's also combined with Bioware saying it would be "visually super hot." Which was also incidentally their reasoning for removing DA:O's iso camera. And so on.

I feel like I'm having to explain the joke. He's directly quoting Bioware and then indicating what these design mentalities manifest themselves into through use of comical imagery.

 

[careful]

I'm still mad at the camera apparently having limited zoom out. Fuck that shit.
Will get it on Steam holiday sale.

 

[shinobi602]

To you. They're not negatives to you.

Yes, I thought it was implied I was speaking about my view of it...

 

[vocab]

I'm still stuck on like hour 18 in my first DA:O playthrough. Painful as it might be, I think I'm going to start over as a mage. My sword & shield guy bores me, and in combat I probably control Morrigan twice as much as any other character because it's so much fun to nuke people with spells.

Plus, I'm pissed off that I missed my chance to get the Blood Mage specialization from the desire demon. Titballs.

Ya, Warrior on almost every RPG is boring. The only reason I would go warrior is to tank the bosses my self, and never really rely on my tactic slots.

 

[Monocle]

I believe you can game that by playing through that bit unlocking it, then load up an old save and because the achievement is unlocked you can spec blood mage whenever.

At least this was the case on the PC.

Thanks, I'll look into that.

Ya, Warrior on almost every RPG is boring. The only reason I would go warrior is to tank the bosses my self, and never really rely on my tactic slots.

I must have been thinking of how much fun I used to have in Morrowind running around whacking people with my sword. DA:O is a very different game.

Moral of the story: Always choose mage.

 

[seat]

Breezed through the thread, but I found this pretty interesting:

http://www.destructoid.com/the-old-...es-194234.phtml

"I think [Dragon Age II] sidesteps what I see as almost like traditions. Traditional weak points of the classic RPG are ... they're daunting. High barrier to entry. They're hard to get into," he says. BioWare's own player-tracking statistics tell a similar tale: a significant portion of Origins players had their own mystifying "other" moments, dropping the game after only an hour.

"They weren't even getting an Achievement," Laidlaw continues.

http://i.imgur.com/FOUcS.jpg

Some pretty cold, hard facts there. Does that justify every change made from DA:O to DA2? I wonder how big that "significant portion" of gamers really is. If a majority of gamers couldn't even play DA:O past the first hour, I can understand why Bioware didn't want to build directly off of it for the sequel. I wouldn't want to spend a big budget on a game that most people wouldn't play past the first achievement, either. And those people clearly wouldn't buy DA2 if they heard it played just like DA:O, making a pretty big decrease in sales, obviously.

 

[Songbird]

I believe you can game that by playing through that bit unlocking it, then load up an old save and because the achievement is unlocked you can spec blood mage whenever.

At least this was the case on the PC.

Yes-siree. Specialisation unlocks are tied to your local saves (or even your EA account?) so once one's unlocked you can reload a previous state and play on.

Beaten.

 

[Hulud]

This thread is hilarious and it's not just because of EviLore's amazing post.

 

[Monocle]

This thread is hilarious and it's not just because of EviLore's amazing post.

It's seriously the best OT in a long time.

 

[WanderingWind]

Yes, I thought it was implied I was speaking about my view of it...

Except you seem to be having difficulty believing that anybody could think different. Unless you're getting paid by somebody, you really don't need to defend DA2. It's going to sell. You get to play a game you're excited for, and those who aren't will vanish when the game is actually out - because here's the thing - complaining about it without buying it is only kosher as long as nobody can buy it. Afterwards? Banhammer.

It's the circle of GAF. And it moves us all.

 

[Patryn]

Ya, Warrior on almost every RPG is boring. The only reason I would go warrior is to tank the bosses my self, and never really rely on my tactic slots.

I swear that I'm the only person who found rogue to far and away be the most enjoyable class to play. Mage kind of bored me, because you just hung back. I liked being in the thick of things, and I loved doing backstabs.

Hell, I just played Golems of Amgarrack, and had my rogue solo four boss-level Golems at the same time because his dex was so high nothing really hit him. It was glorious.

 

[AkuMifune]

Some pretty cold, hard facts there. Does that justify every change made from DA:O to DA2? I wonder how big that "significant portion" of gamers really is. If a majority of gamers couldn't even play DA:O past the first hour, I can understand why Bioware didn't want to build directly off of it for the sequel. I wouldn't want to spend a big budget on a game that most people wouldn't play past the first achievement, either. And those people clearly wouldn't buy DA2 if they heard it played just like DA:O, making a pretty big decrease in sales, obviously.

If what he says is true my own worst fears are materializing. Developers who would use these player-tracking statistics to influence game development are only looking at half of the data, and the lowest common denominator at that. You know what you get when you cater to those fools? McDonalds.

 

[WanderingWind]

Breezed through the thread, but I found this pretty interesting:



Some pretty cold, hard facts there. Does that justify every change made from DA:O to DA2? I wonder how big that "significant portion" of gamers really is. If a majority of gamers couldn't even play DA:O past the first hour, I can understand why Bioware didn't want to build directly off of it for the sequel. I wouldn't want to spend a big budget on a game that most people wouldn't play past the first achievement, either. And those people clearly wouldn't buy DA2 if they heard it played just like DA:O, making a pretty big decrease in sales, obviously.

Except we have no way of verifying that, those numbers could be based on faulty reports, rentals, etc. It could also be the result of a piss poor marketing campaign - which if this is the case - the game won't sell this time around because those same people won't bite a second time with a name they've come to recognized.

Regardless, trying to tailor a sequel toward people who didn't give a shit enough to play your first game, rather than the people who did is fucking ridiculous logic, and the fact that anybody believes so ought to be fired from any decision making position. It's bewildering ass backwards to market an already successful product at people who hate you. You're not going to win them over.

 

[shinobi602]

You get to play a game you're excited for, and those who aren't will vanish when the game is actually out - because here's the thing - complaining about it without buying it is only kosher as long as nobody can buy it. Afterwards? Banhammer.

It's the circle of GAF. And it moves us all.

Well, that's good news. I'm looking forward to some positive and constructive discussion when it comes out then.

 

[Gvaz]

Except you seem to be having difficulty believing that anybody could think different. Unless you're getting paid by somebody, you really don't need to defend DA2. It's going to sell. You get to play a game you're excited for, and those who aren't will vanish when the game is actually out - because here's the thing - complaining about it without buying it is only kosher as long as nobody can buy it. Afterwards? Banhammer.

It's the circle of GAF. And it moves us all.

Wait so, complaining about a game after release = ban? What?

Or did you just word that awkwardly? I'd assume any rational criticism without nerd rage would be allowed no matter what.

 

[Gattsu25]

Wait so, complaining about a game after release = ban? What?

Or did you just word that awkwardly? I'd assume any rational criticism without nerd rage would be allowed no matter what.

"Trolling a game, that you haven't played, when others have played it" can be bannable.

That's what I took from the comment, anyway.

 

[WanderingWind]

Wait so, complaining about a game after release = ban? What?

Or did you just word that awkwardly? I'd assume any rational criticism without nerd rage would be allowed no matter what.

It wouldn't be rational if people are shitting on it based on a demo, after the full game is out. In other words, we're all bitching/sucking off a game we haven't played yet. Later, if you're complaining about the game without playing it, you're probably not long for this world. Board. Forum. Quest.

 

[lastplayed]

I swear that I'm the only person who found rogue to far and away be the most enjoyable class to play.

Rogue was by far my favourite class. Sword and board warrior was all right, but I could never get into the mages, I loved the finishing moves too much.

 

[Almighty]

Well I for one like the OT, but then I might be looking at it differently then some. I personally didn't take the OT as saying Dragon Age 2 is going to be shit, but more of a jab at who ever does Bioware's PR. Taking some of their ridiculous quotes and going crazy with them.

Personally I don't like what I am hearing about DA2, but the demo made me change my stance from "this game is going to be shit" to "depending on what people say I might pick it up". I am playing though DAO right now just so i have a save to import to DA2 just in case the impressions say the game is good and my fears about the game were exaggerated or misplaced.

 

[Gvaz]

It wouldn't be rational if people are shitting on it based on a demo, after the full game is out. In other words, we're all bitching/sucking off a game we haven't played yet. Later, if you're complaining about the game without playing it, you're probably not long for this world. Board. Forum. Quest.

Okay, I had read the FAQs but that's not something I got from them.

I'll keep that in mind, although I've never bitched about a game without having actually played at least a little bit first.

edit for content:

When the game was coming out (DA:O, not DA2), there was tons more info than there was now. Additionally everything about the game had me stoked. I can't say I personally like the major changes (art, voiced PC, lack of customization of companions) but I like the combat (my complaint so far is the sound effects for weapons are very poor, and the animations are too excessive to the point of being absurd).

I'll give it a chance when it comes out...but I'm going to be as reserved and neutral as I can about it.

 

[shintoki]

"Trolling a game, that you haven't played, when others have played it" can be bannable.

That's what I took from the comment, anyway.

It's a bit different I think. It's the bitching about posters who have a different opinion than you. Basically, attacking posters and not the game.

 

[GillianSeed79]

As someone who still has the DA2 Signature Edition preordered for a console, can I just say I actually like the OT. People need to grow a pair and have a laugh. 99 percent of OT's are nothing but circle jerks that mostly serve to reinforce a fan's desire to buy said game without objectively examining a game. For those calling this a troll thread, I've seen much worse (see any Tony Hawk OT the last three years).

Also, BioWare's horrible PR surrounding DA2, regardless of the merits of the final game, provides most of the laughs and deserves mockery.

There are legitimate gripes with DA2, especially when you pair PR quotes with actual screen shots and demo impressions.

That said, there's nothing stopping you from enjoying DA2 if you like what you see and played. I'm not a fan of some of the changes, but Dragon Effect Age 2 is not the worst game I'll ever play. Hell, I'm really, really looking forward to it. People have opinions. Essentially, deal with it.

 

[The Technomancer]

It's a bit different I think. It's the bitching about posters who have a different opinion than you. Basically, attacking posters and not the game.

Its both. Don't do that, and especially don't bitch about a game you haven't played.

 

[Gattsu25]

It's a bit different I think. It's the bitching about posters who have a different opinion than you. Basically, attacking posters and not the game.

Meh. My opinion is not to comment, period.

Opinions are like assholes: everyone is entitled to share theirs with others. So what if you think someone else's own stinks? Yours is no better, to some. Purse up your nose, if you will, but don't make a scene out of your disagreement or you'll ruin everyone else's fun.

 

[I3rand0]

Except we have no way of verifying that, those numbers could be based on faulty reports, rentals, etc. It could also be the result of a piss poor marketing campaign - which if this is the case - the game won't sell this time around because those same people won't bite a second time with a name they've come to recognized.

Regardless, trying to tailor a sequel toward people who didn't give a shit enough to play your first game, rather than the people who did is fucking ridiculous logic, and the fact that anybody believes so ought to be fired from any decision making position. It's bewildering ass backwards to market an already successful product at people who hate you. You're not going to win them over.

 

[EviLore]

Okay, I had read the FAQs but that's not something I got from them.

I'll keep that in mind, although I've never bitched about a game without having actually played at least a little bit first.

My philosophy, which carries over to the moderation policies of the forum, is that it's always going to be appropriate to levy criticisms (especially if you're substantiating your positions) at something based on the information that is available at that time. If we're a year out and we only have flowery previews and bad looking screenshots? There's nothing wrong with tearing into those screenshots and saying the game looks bad -- the game (probably) does look bad and the developers need to hear that.

If we're two weeks out and we have a demo, but not the full game? The demo is there to sell the game to you, and if it's not representative of the product then that's the fault of the publisher or developer, not the consumer taking that demonstration at face value. At that point the demo is important information in deciding whether to drop $50-$60 on a day 1 purchase or not. Once the game is available, criticism of the full product should mostly be reserved for people who actually have it, since they have the complete data.

Sometimes it causes controversy (see: Denis Dyack scandal), but I stand by it. Criticism is important at all stages of the release cycle, otherwise it just reinforces the mindless cycle of hype that every PR department strives to create.

 

[WanderingWind]

Man. Typing on a iPad makes my previous post look like I flunked elementary school grammar. So...many....typos.

 

[Gvaz]

Yeah okay, I can agree with that standpoint.

SA forums user gibbed is hacking the demo and he was able to import his save into the demo. Here's what he has to say (might be spoilers? Perhaps? There's not really anything spoilerish to me personally):

Hacked the demo to let me try save importing for plot events, awww yeah.

(this is research to see if it's feasible to write a save creator to customize things)

You select an actual save file on your local system, it lists all Dragon Age characters and all of their saves, there's a Plot Summary button that you can click to view the noted events from that save that I guess are used to influence your DA2 game before you choose which save you want, which is cool.

Here's an example of a plot summary from one of my saves.

Edit: as a side effect of this hack, it enabled appearance customization during chargen, the resources are all in the demo, so they didn't disable it because of that.

 

[jhawk6]

The OT is pretty hilarious. The rest of the thread continued to deliver too. As for myself I am anticipating the DA2 release with great fervor

 

[vocab]

I swear that I'm the only person who found rogue to far and away be the most enjoyable class to play. Mage kind of bored me, because you just hung back. I liked being in the thick of things, and I loved doing backstabs.

Hell, I just played Golems of Amgarrack, and had my rogue solo four boss-level Golems at the same time because his dex was so high nothing really hit him. It was glorious.

I'm doing rogue right now, and I plan to beat the game with rogue. I look forward to hitting god status.

 

[Songbird]

SA forums user gibbed is hacking the demo and he was able to import his save into the demo. Here's what he has to say (might be spoilers? Perhaps? There's not really anything spoilerish to me personally):

Gibbed is a true hero, I'd like to shake that guy's hand some day. Also could you please link me to the posts? If he has steps for unlocking customisation I'd like to play with it a bit.

 

[SenorDingDong]

Rogue was by far my favourite class. Sword and board warrior was all right, but I could never get into the mages, I loved the finishing moves too much.

Has there been any word as to whether finishing moves are present in DA2? I sincerely hope they've not been replaced with enemies exploding in ridiculous circumstances.

 

[Reluctant-Hero]

As someone who still has the DA2 Signature Edition preordered for a console, can I just say I actually like the OT. People need to grow a pair and have a laugh. 99 percent of OT's are nothing but circle jerks that mostly serve to reinforce a fan's desire to buy said game without objectively examining a game. For those calling this a troll thread, I've seen much worse (see any Tony Hawk OT the last three years).

Also, BioWare's horrible PR surrounding DA2, regardless of the merits of the final game, provides most of the laughs and deserves mockery.

There are legitimate gripes with DA2, especially when you pair PR quotes with actual screen shots and demo impressions.

That said, there's nothing stopping you from enjoying DA2 if you like what you see and played. I'm not a fan of some of the changes, but Dragon Effect Age 2 is not the worst game I'll ever play. Hell, I'm really, really looking forward to it. People have opinions. Essentially, deal with it.

Nice post. Bolded part is key.

 

[jhawk6]

I'm doing rogue right now, and I plan to beat the game with rogue. I look forward to hitting god status.

I enjoyed the rogue in DA1 quite a bit. You'll have fun with the rogue

 

[jackdoe]

Yeah okay, I can agree with that standpoint.

SA forums user gibbed is hacking the demo and he was able to import his save into the demo. Here's what he has to say (might be spoilers? Perhaps? There's not really anything spoilerish to me personally):

Hm. About what I expected in terms of save transfer. You know how Bioware could have really thought outside the box though? Your character from DA: O could become a recruitable party member.

 

[EviLore]

As for people concerned about not being able to discuss the game: discuss the game. There's nothing stopping you. No one's going to go "LOLOLOLOLOLOL" in response to an attempt at real discussion (and if they did there would be consequences). Crying foul and trying to get the thread deleted actually only derails the thread to be about whether it has its merits or not, and so that sort of behavior is explicitly prohibited by the ToS. The administration decides the fate of threads. If you don't care for it, don't participate.

It's understandable to be concerned about an OP perceived as a negative framework for discussion. However, discussion will be as normal as soon as normal discussion is possible (i.e. the game comes out). Take a look at any OT before the game gets in gamers' hands. "OMG HYPE! HYPE!" is the gist of it. I don't see any value in preserving that for the sake of it. Also, I find the practice of creating 10,000 word mini PR websites for a game's official thread kind of dreadful these days. It's like a contest to try to correlate hype levels with official thread grandiosity. I embrace and encourage the idea of doing something different when possible, so that there is real value and purpose to the effort being put into an official thread's OP.

 

[Songbird]

Also, I find the act of creating 10,000 word mini PR websites for a game's official thread kind of dreadful these days. It's like a contest to try to correlate hype levels with official thread grandiosity. I embrace and encourage the idea of doing something different when possible, so that there is real value and purpose to the effort being put into an official thread's OP.

How does a member get permission to create an official thread? Is it done through PMs to red-names or just among fellow members?

 

[kai3345]

Any word on when the game is going to be availible for pre-download on Steam?

 

[EviLore]

How does a member get permission to create an official thread? Is it done through PMs to red-names or just among fellow members?

It's an informal process generally decided between gaffers via discussion in threads related to the game in question. For "important" games with a lot of potential official thread creators, someone prepared to put the appropriate time in will often additionally PM a mod letting us know that they want to do the OT, since they might start working on it far in advance and don't want the effort to go to waste by being a duplicate thread when the time comes.

 

[Zeliard]

Agreed on the huge PR-style official threads. Those can be a bit creepy. Most literally read like something out of that company's PR department.

 

[Songbird]

It's an informal process generally decided between gaffers via discussion in threads related to the game in question. For "important" games with a lot of potential official thread creators, someone prepared to put the appropriate time in will often additionally PM a mod letting us know that they want to do the OT, since they might start working on it far in advance and don't want the effort to go to waste by being a duplicate thread when the time comes.

Good to know, thanks! Might encourage me to do one some time.

 

[GillianSeed79]

Nice post. Bolded part is key.

Eh, I'm kind of drunk, so I wish I hadn't posted that bolded part. My point was that despite my personal hype for the game, the PR wasn't great. Like I said, I'm still there Day 1 for DA2, but you can't fault people calling a spade a spade with some of those PR quotes. I'm biased in this debate in that I loved DA:O. But, I can remain objective. The game is coming out March 8. The PR quotes don't match up with what we've been shown or played. DA:O wasn't a techical showcase on consoles, but it's still my favorite RPG this gen partly because they said what it was and didn't promise so much.
EDIT: To discuss the game, I'm really debating between playing a rogue non-auto attack, which was really fun in the demo, or as a two-hander with auto attack. Isabella appears to be a rogue from the demo, so I don't to be stuck without a tank in the first few hours.

 

[HeadlessRoland]

I think the OP would be perfect if the master race being urinated on had a Geralt face and the consoles two of the insanely retarded hawke faces, haha.