Dragon Ball Super |OT| 28 Episodes Later

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chicagocubsfan said:
They're gonna turn Vegeta into a laughingstock aren't they?
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Yes. Based on the BOG movie, he was just there to be a jobber and comedy relief.

Vegeta%20Funny.jpg
 
Guys

We're getting a NEW FUCKING DRAGON BALL SHOW

Like holy shit, I'm freaking out, the more I think about it the more excited I get
 
BassForever said:
Technically Goku never beat him in a fight, but they make it very clear that Goku would have beaten Majin Vegeta had he gone all out with SSJ3. As I recall Vegeta makes a big stink about it later and it's one of the major parts of his character arc.
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He definitely would have beaten Vegeta if he used SSJ3, but he chose not to use it, and he fell for Vegeta's bluff that the fight was over. So I wouldn't count it as a win.
 
He didn't count the fight as a loss, he just accepted that Goku was stronger than him (something he was pretty much in denial about throughout the Cell arc).
 
ArchedThunder said:
It's not confirmed to be a parody and Toriyama has never really said anything to imply that it is, it's just a fan theory.
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This is true, but there's way too many obviously comical moments throughout for it to be anything else, and keep in mind that these are all right in the middle of what are otherwise supposed to be deadly serious events:


  • Piccolo freaks out over the presence of the Supreme Kai, who's billed as being two levels of deity above even King Kai. Supreme Kai spends the rest of the series being absolutely flabbergasted by how strong the mortals are.
  • The heroes decide who gets to fight which of Babidi's minions, which include a guy Supreme Kai is terrified of, by playing rock-paper-scissors. They do this again to decide who gets to fight Buu, after watching him blow up the planet.
  • Even the people who unsealed him have trouble taking Buu seriously.
  • Vegeta at one point makes a quip about how he and Goku have become too strong.
  • Buu's signature ability is turning people into sweets.
  • Trunks completely shatters Piccolo's petrified body, and stumbles across the bloody chunks when he's restored. Piccolo shows up alive and well in the next panel and handwaves it by saying that his head was still fine.
  • The solution to stopping Buu's rampage is to ask him to stop.
  • Gohan's super magic god sword breaks on impact.
  • Gotenks in general, but notably the moment when Krillin straight up breaks the fourth wall and Toriyama draws himself into the panel during Gotenk's failed fusion parade.
  • Old Kai's death is played up as a serious, meaningful sacrifice. He sits back up halfway down the same page he dies in and tells Goku to get going so that his death isn't meaningless.
  • Similarly, Vegito getting turned into a jawbreaker is played up as a terrible thing right up until the point where the jawbreaker declares itself the strongest candy in the universe and goes back to kicking Buu's ass.
  • Even Goku can't believe Vegeta wants to try the spirit bomb.
etc. etc.

It still takes the time to make the action cool, and Vegeta's character development is notably played 100% straight, but it's essentially the Batman '66 of Dragon Ball.


QueenOfThorns said:
How was the Kai version? I hope they improved that.
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/shrug

Should be much better, though. Buu got dragged out to something like 50% more episodes per volume in the original run than Cell did.
 
A Pretty Panda said:
Anime people definitely thought Z would be about Gohan. Wasn't one of the planned names Gohan's Adventure or something

Also the opening and endings

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJbnth60KnM
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The entire series up until the very end was about a successor for Goku. Toriyama could just never could follow through.

Out of curiosity, was there ever an explanation by Toriyama why he choose to make the human characters so inconsequential? In a series filled with deus ex machina it would have been so easy to have them catch up to Saiyans.
 
Varna said:
The entire series up until the very end was about a successor for Goku. Toriyama could just never could follow through.

Out of curiosity, was there ever an explanation by Toriyama why he choose to make the human characters so inconsequential? In a series filled with deus ex machina it would have been so easy to have them catch up to Saiyans.
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Was it the only arc that felt that way was the cell arc. And even than you guess that goku would come back.
 
Heroman said:
Was it the only arc that felt that way was the cell arc. And even than you guess that goku would come back.
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With the not-so-random outbursts Gohan had where he'd be able to take whatever big bad there was by surprise, there was definitely a feeling that one day he'd be able to harness that power. Goku directly references it in the Cell saga.
 
Sciz said:
This is true, but there's way too many obviously comical moments throughout for it to be anything else, and keep in mind that these are all right in the middle of what are otherwise supposed to be deadly serious events:


  • Piccolo freaks out over the presence of the Supreme Kai, who's billed as being two levels of deity above even King Kai. Supreme Kai spends the rest of the series being absolutely flabbergasted by how strong the mortals are.
  • The heroes decide who gets to fight which of Babidi's minions, which include a guy Supreme Kai is terrified of, by playing rock-paper-scissors. They do this again to decide who gets to fight Buu, after watching him blow up the planet.
  • Even the people who unsealed him have trouble taking Buu seriously.
  • Vegeta at one point makes a quip about how he and Goku have become too strong.
  • Buu's signature ability is turning people into sweets.
  • Trunks completely shatters Piccolo's petrified body, and stumbles across the bloody chunks when he's restored. Piccolo shows up alive and well in the next panel and handwaves it by saying that his head was still fine.
  • The solution to stopping Buu's rampage is to ask him to stop.
  • Gohan's super magic god sword breaks on impact.
  • Gotenks in general, but notably the moment when Krillin straight up breaks the fourth wall and Toriyama draws himself into the panel during Gotenk's failed fusion parade.
  • Old Kai's death is played up as a serious, meaningful sacrifice. He sits back up halfway down the same page he dies in and tells Goku to get going so that his death isn't meaningless.
  • Similarly, Vegito getting turned into a jawbreaker is played up as a terrible thing right up until the point where the jawbreaker declares itself the strongest candy in the universe and goes back to kicking Buu's ass.
  • Even Goku can't believe Vegeta wants to try the spirit bomb.
etc. etc.

It still takes the time to make the action cool, and Vegeta's character development is notably played 100% straight, but it's essentially the Batman '66 of Dragon Ball.




/shrug

Should be much better, though. Buu got dragged out to something like 50% more episodes per volume in the original run than Cell did.
Click to expand...
The Buu arc has its merits, but this post has a lot of truth to it. Too much nonsense to it. Which is why some people love it (hey, it's like the original DB! Except the original DB was playing with lower stakes, not planet destroying threats, so it made more sense) but I hope Super is a return to form. Of course silliness belongs in Dragon Ball, and always has and always will, but Buu's severe lack of focus and haphazard execution made the silliness detract from the experience.
 
Sciz said:
This is true, but there's way too many obviously comical moments throughout for it to be anything else, and keep in mind that these are all right in the middle of what are otherwise supposed to be deadly serious events:


  • Piccolo freaks out over the presence of the Supreme Kai, who's billed as being two levels of deity above even King Kai. Supreme Kai spends the rest of the series being absolutely flabbergasted by how strong the mortals are.
  • The heroes decide who gets to fight which of Babidi's minions, which include a guy Supreme Kai is terrified of, by playing rock-paper-scissors. They do this again to decide who gets to fight Buu, after watching him blow up the planet.
  • Even the people who unsealed him have trouble taking Buu seriously.
  • Vegeta at one point makes a quip about how he and Goku have become too strong.
  • Buu's signature ability is turning people into sweets.
  • Trunks completely shatters Piccolo's petrified body, and stumbles across the bloody chunks when he's restored. Piccolo shows up alive and well in the next panel and handwaves it by saying that his head was still fine.
  • The solution to stopping Buu's rampage is to ask him to stop.
  • Gohan's super magic god sword breaks on impact.
  • Gotenks in general, but notably the moment when Krillin straight up breaks the fourth wall and Toriyama draws himself into the panel during Gotenk's failed fusion parade.
  • Old Kai's death is played up as a serious, meaningful sacrifice. He sits back up halfway down the same page he dies in and tells Goku to get going so that his death isn't meaningless.
  • Similarly, Vegito getting turned into a jawbreaker is played up as a terrible thing right up until the point where the jawbreaker declares itself the strongest candy in the universe and goes back to kicking Buu's ass.
  • Even Goku can't believe Vegeta wants to try the spirit bomb.
etc. etc.

It still takes the time to make the action cool, and Vegeta's character development is notably played 100% straight, but it's essentially the Batman '66 of Dragon Ball.
Click to expand...


Is some of this manga only? Like, especially the bolded. It has been awhile, but I don't remember a lot of this, especially the fusion thing? The hell is that about?
 
Sciz said:
This is true, but there's way too many obviously comical moments throughout for it to be anything else, and keep in mind that these are all right in the middle of what are otherwise supposed to be deadly serious events:


  • Piccolo freaks out over the presence of the Supreme Kai, who's billed as being two levels of deity above even King Kai. Supreme Kai spends the rest of the series being absolutely flabbergasted by how strong the mortals are.
  • The heroes decide who gets to fight which of Babidi's minions, which include a guy Supreme Kai is terrified of, by playing rock-paper-scissors. They do this again to decide who gets to fight Buu, after watching him blow up the planet.
  • Even the people who unsealed him have trouble taking Buu seriously.
  • Vegeta at one point makes a quip about how he and Goku have become too strong.
  • Buu's signature ability is turning people into sweets.
  • Trunks completely shatters Piccolo's petrified body, and stumbles across the bloody chunks when he's restored. Piccolo shows up alive and well in the next panel and handwaves it by saying that his head was still fine.
  • The solution to stopping Buu's rampage is to ask him to stop.
  • Gohan's super magic god sword breaks on impact.
  • Gotenks in general, but notably the moment when Krillin straight up breaks the fourth wall and Toriyama draws himself into the panel during Gotenk's failed fusion parade.
  • Old Kai's death is played up as a serious, meaningful sacrifice. He sits back up halfway down the same page he dies in and tells Goku to get going so that his death isn't meaningless.
  • Similarly, Vegito getting turned into a jawbreaker is played up as a terrible thing right up until the point where the jawbreaker declares itself the strongest candy in the universe and goes back to kicking Buu's ass.
  • Even Goku can't believe Vegeta wants to try the spirit bomb.
etc. etc.

It still takes the time to make the action cool, and Vegeta's character development is notably played 100% straight, but it's essentially the Batman '66 of Dragon Ball.




/shrug

Should be much better, though. Buu got dragged out to something like 50% more episodes per volume in the original run than Cell did.
Click to expand...

You have to remember that Dragon Ball started as a gag manga and then slowly moved away from that as it went on. If anything I think the Buu arc just has more call backs to that then the rest of Z.
 
MikeMyers said:
I don't see why that would be. Do you count Base Goku vs Freeza and SSJ Goku vs Freeza as different fights?
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I consider the two goku vs freeza fights as different fights. (to be fair it is actually 3 different fights. the first one freeza wins and puts goku to his "death" in lava. the second one goku just stands there and makes a spirit bomb and finally you have ssj goku vs freeza as there is even a decent break between the two thanks to the spirit bomb)

I don't consider goku vs ape vegeta as different fights though lol. (at no point was vegeta considered defeated before he went into ape form)
 
Shauni said:
Is some of this manga only? Like, especially the bolded. It has been awhile, but I don't remember a lot of this, especially the fusion thing? The hell is that about?
Click to expand...

Krillin comments that the mangaka is nicking a living because of all the recycled panels for each fusion dance attempt and Toriyama's alterego appears to say to the editor he won't bill him for this page.

The Buu saga is unquestionably a very self-aware parody of DB itself.
 
Shauni said:
I don't think they were necessarily trying to mimic the original DB exactly. I can see the point of reference, but I think it was more DB meets The Little Prince, an emphasis on the adventure and seeing new places with a DB feel.



Eh, this really isn't true at all. Baby had significant build up before he was there, Super 17 bled directly out of Dr. Miyu's death earlier in the show, and the whole shadow dragon thing was hinted out earlier on when the Dragon Balls had shown to be cracked. None of the villains really came out of nowhere, they all had introductions and build ups.
I see.
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It seems they did. The GT beginning was pretty awkward. Aside from some exception, most of the new characters and planets were pretty much not important and forgettable (Planet Rudeeze, Tigere, Polaris, Cretaceous...)

Baby seems to be a last minute shove-in to transit it to becoming more action. Once Baby arrives on Earth, the writers literally rushed through the whole 'search for dragon balls' adventure part to get Goku (Pan and Trunk) back to Earth ASAP to fight Baby. (though its the best arc here though, its interesting to see Mr. Satan and co trying to free the brainwashed guys and helping them to escape the exploding Earth).

The entire world tournament pre-Android 17 is basically meaningless filler. There's also no foreshadowing of replica Android 17, and literally no personality. He just shows up, absorb 17, fight the saiyan and there's it. Its a far cry from Buu, Cell or Frieza and most movie villains, who spend time doing their stuffs (like Frieza gathering the dragon balls, cell stealth absorbing people to turn stronger, buu befriending Mr Satan and the Evil Buu etc while the Z fighters formulate a game plan) before the climax fight. (luckily there's the 'hell villains escape to Earth' subplot which is an interesting yet another wasted concept).

Except for Nouva and Eis, the 'story' for the other dragons followed the same formula each episode: a dragon cause trouble in an area. Goku and Pan shows up. dragon appeared, and explain which wish they were created from. Goku defeat dragon.

imo they should have scrapped the black star dragons arc and android 17 arc, and create some arc in some of the planets, with the whole entire 'searching for black star dragon balls' as the overarching arc.
 
I really wish they would give us teen trunks instead of kid. I really want to see more of someone like future Trunks. Heck Goten too so he can become more of his own character like GT.
 
ArchedThunder said:
You have to remember that Dragon Ball started as a gag manga and then slowly moved away from that as it went on. If anything I think the Buu arc just has more call backs to that then the rest of Z.
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That's true enough, but a lot of the goofing around isn't just jokes for their own sake, it's directly satirizing the elements that the DBZ era was built around.

I have no idea how TFS is going to handle it when they get there, because their job's already been done for them.

Shauni said:
Is some of this manga only? Like, especially the bolded. It has been awhile, but I don't remember a lot of this, especially the fusion thing? The hell is that about?
Click to expand...

I don't think the fourth wall gag quite made the transition, but the rest should all be in the anime if for no other reason than that Toei was trying to drag it out as long as possible and couldn't afford to cut manga content. Been ages since I've watched it proper, though. Reading's faster. And often better! More people should read the series.

EmiPrime said:
The Buu saga is unquestionably a very self-aware parody of DB itself.
Click to expand...

Oh good, it really isn't just me. Even among people who actually like it, I've never seen anyone else espouse that exact idea.
 
ArtHands said:
It seems they did. The GT beginning was pretty awkward. Aside from some exception, most of the new characters and planets were pretty much not important and forgettable (Planet Rudeeze, Tigere, Polaris, Cretaceous...)

Baby seems to be a last minute shove-in to transit it to becoming more action. Once Baby arrives on Earth, the writers literally rushed through the whole 'search for dragon balls' adventure part to get Goku (Pan and Trunk) back to Earth ASAP to fight Baby. (though its the best arc here though, its interesting to see Mr. Satan and co trying to free the brainwashed guys and helping them to escape the exploding Earth).

The entire world tournament pre-Android 17 is basically meaningless filler. There's also no foreshadowing of replica Android 17, and literally no personality. He just shows up, absorb 17, fight the saiyan and there's it. Its a far cry from Buu, Cell or Frieza and most movie villains, who spend time doing their stuffs (like Frieza gathering the dragon balls, cell stealth absorbing people to turn stronger, buu befriending Mr Satan and the Evil Buu etc while the Z fighters formulate a game plan) before the climax fight. (luckily there's the 'hell villains escape to Earth' subplot which is an interesting yet another wasted concept).

Except for Nouva and Eis, the 'story' for the other dragons followed the same formula each episode: a dragon cause trouble in an area. Goku and Pan shows up. dragon appeared, and explain which wish they were created from. Goku defeat dragon.

imo they should have scrapped the black star dragons arc and android 17 arc, and create some arc in some of the planets, with the whole entire 'searching for black star dragon balls' as the overarching arc.
Click to expand...


Pffft and someone likes that show
 
Count one more for the hype-train. CHOO CHOO!!!

One thing I don't get is how anyone could abhor the SSG and SSGSS designs. Slim bodies have always been the defining part of the most powerful forms (i.e Frieza Final Form, Cell Final Form, Buu Final Form) and I personally love the red and blue colours. Hate? Even if I did hate the designs, I'd be really intrigued by where these forms will take the series.

AT has probably written out the basic outline but I'm hoping for character specific upgrades/forms aka Mystic Gohan, fused Piccolo etc. Goku and Vegeta can keep their God powers, but give me something like "Ultimate Goten", "Samurai Trunks", "Enlightened Tien" or "Grand Turtle Krillin".
 
Kaze Kyou said:
Count one more for the hype-train. CHOO CHOO!!!

One thing I don't get is how anyone could abhor the SSG and SSGSS designs. Slim bodies have always been the defining part of the most powerful forms (i.e Frieza Final Form, Cell Final Form, Buu Final Form) and I personally love the red and blue colours. Hate? Even if I did hate the designs, I'd be really intrigued by where these forms will take the series.

AT has probably written out the basic outline but I'm hoping for character specific upgrades/forms aka Mystic Gohan, fused Piccolo etc. Goku and Vegeta can keep their God powers, but give me something like "Ultimate Goten", "Samurai Trunks", "Enlightened Tien" or "Grand Turtle Krillin".
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And Grandmaster Roshi.
 
BassForever said:
Guys

We're getting a NEW FUCKING DRAGON BALL SHOW

Like holy shit, I'm freaking out, the more I think about it the more excited I get
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Yeaaaaah. I've been so hyped since this thread went up! Never watched Battle of the Gods, will do so very soon.
 
Kaze Kyou said:
Count one more for the hype-train. CHOO CHOO!!!

One thing I don't get is how anyone could abhor the SSG and SSGSS designs. Slim bodies have always been the defining part of the most powerful forms (i.e Frieza Final Form, Cell Final Form, Buu Final Form) and I personally love the red and blue colours. Hate? Even if I did hate the designs, I'd be really intrigued by where these forms will take the series.

AT has probably written out the basic outline but I'm hoping for character specific upgrades/forms aka Mystic Gohan, fused Piccolo etc. Goku and Vegeta can keep their God powers, but give me something like "Ultimate Goten", "Samurai Trunks", "Enlightened Tien" or "Grand Turtle Krillin".
Click to expand...

Grand Turtle Krillin would be the coolest thing ever.
 
ArtHands said:
It seems they did. The GT beginning was pretty awkward. Aside from some exception, most of the new characters and planets were pretty much not important and forgettable (Planet Rudeeze, Tigere, Polaris, Cretaceous...)

Baby seems to be a last minute shove-in to transit it to becoming more action. Once Baby arrives on Earth, the writers literally rushed through the whole 'search for dragon balls' adventure part to get Goku (Pan and Trunk) back to Earth ASAP to fight Baby. (though its the best arc here though, its interesting to see Mr. Satan and co trying to free the brainwashed guys and helping them to escape the exploding Earth).
Click to expand...

Last minute inclusion? Uh, no, not at all. Baby doesn't come out of nowhere at all, he comes directly out of the Dr. Miyu stuff that starts relatively early in the series. I agree it did feel like they rushed the rest of the Dragon Ball hunt once Baby made it to Earth, but it's pretty inaccurate to say that about Baby's introduction and build up

The entire world tournament pre-Android 17 is basically meaningless filler. There's also no foreshadowing of replica Android 17, and literally no personality. He just shows up, absorb 17, fight the saiyan and there's it. Its a far cry from Buu, Cell or Frieza and most movie villains, who spend time doing their stuffs (like Frieza gathering the dragon balls, cell stealth absorbing people to turn stronger, buu befriending Mr Satan and the Evil Buu etc while the Z fighters formulate a game plan) before the climax fight. (luckily there's the 'hell villains escape to Earth' subplot which is an interesting yet another wasted concept).
Click to expand...

You're sort of weaving in and out of two arguments here, about how there was little build up and not liking how Super Android 17 was. But like I said, I don't really agree here. The whole thing came from Miyu's death and him meeting Gero in Hell. It's not that random at all. Maybe they wasn't any kind of foreshadowing to 17 specifically, but it had a build up. Miyu and Gero and had similar ideals, so them meeting up in Hell made sense after Miyu's death.

Except for Nouva and Eis, the 'story' for the other dragons followed the same formula each episode: a dragon cause trouble in an area. Goku and Pan shows up. dragon appeared, and explain which wish they were created from. Goku defeat dragon.

imo they should have scrapped the black star dragons arc and android 17 arc, and create some arc in some of the planets, with the whole entire 'searching for black star dragon balls' as the overarching arc.
Click to expand...

This isn't even about the build up and more about your personal enjoyment, not really what I was arguing against.
 
Sciz said:
Oh good, it really isn't just me. Even among people who actually like it, I've never seen anyone else espouse that exact idea.
Click to expand...

I was a manga reader first too, I wasn't able to watch the anime all the way through until much later. I think as you say it's much more obvious in the manga where the pacing is much better and the gags are constantly punctuating the action because the fights don't drag on (or in some cases like Gotenks vs Buu, the fight IS the gag).
 
So Jump had the title of the second episode up:
Onward to the Promised Resort! Vegeta Goes on a Family Trip?!

I really can't wait to see this.
 
Xpike said:
So Jump had the title of the second episode up:
Onward to the Promised Resort! Vegeta Goes on a Family Trip?!

I really can't wait to see this.
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The episode description:

The Prince of the Saiyans Vegeta’s Family Time!
Vegeta goes out with Bulma and Trunks to a resort area! Bulma and Trunks are very happy with this unexpected family time together! But even as he’s doing this, Vegeta is bothered that Goku is off training?!

Goku This Week
Training on Planet Kaiō!
Training under the 10 times gravity on Planet Kaiō is perfect! In spite of the nuisance to Kaiō, Goku starts his training, but what is his surprising training method?!
 
ArchedThunder said:
Because I was bored and because I'm a crazy person here are a bunch of avatars, quote me if you take one so I can remove it from the album.

http://imgur.com/a/SdySk
Click to expand...

Those look great.

If anyone else wants Goku hair avatars (see mine for example) I will continue to make them, maybe just PM me so it doesn't clutter the thread.


I spoilered the title of episode 2 and it sounds amazing...think I'll keep the synopsis a surprise though.
 
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