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[zeioIIDX]

My dude had Jiren a bit shook for a moment.

 

[kitzkozan]

yes

and no it's not low expectations

it's fucking Dragon Ball being hype as fuck

your "uuh why people like this I don't get it" cancel into "I don't wanna rant but actually lemme rant" thing really ain't shit

Yeah, the guy is making a classic mistake in overthinking the shit out of Dragon Ball (overthinking is rampant on GAF and internet message boards in general to be fair). This is not a franchise defined by good writing or dialogue or anything like that. Most fans of Dragon Ball want cool setup for powering up along with exciting over the top fight.

Dragon Ball super is able to deliver on this very simple concept and Dragon Ball GT could not, hence people are hyped as fuck.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

I think you're expecting something out of Dragon Ball that, barring a few rare moments, was never there in the first place.

the rapgenius of DB

 

[BHK3]

... Really?

?

You've made this far, you should know db super has no thought or heart in it by now. I watch db super purely to see the z fighters fight random shit. Its like a video game but in anime form. Just watch Z or GT if you want effort in your anime.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

So the ending is Freezer giving Goku energy like Goku did to him in Namekkusei, right?

Based on what Frieza said, that's totally what is about to happen.

 

[Kalentan]

#BELIEVE

PLEASE!!!!

We still got half a tournament.

Gohan needs to get UI or just something equivalent from his Ultimate/Mystic.

 

[kitsunelaine]

You've made this far, you should know db super has no thought or heart in it. I watch purely to see the z fighters fight random shit. Its like a video game but in anime form.

It has thought and heart, just coming from a very different place with different goals.

 

[grandjedi6]

The way Toei set up the story structure for the reveal of this new form reminds me of the reveal of Gear 4 in One Piece. The hero unleashes a new power that puts him on even ground with the overpowered villain but runs out of stamina before he finishes the baddie off. Allies then help the hero escape and regain energy so that he might fight the villain again when his stamina returns in 10-20 minutes. Cue a bunch of fights for the B team as everyone races a firm time limit. Bonus points if the stoic rival with broken powers gets the shit beaten out of him by the villain but eventually helps the hero get back into the final fight.

Of course Dressrosa was a giant reference to Namek so we've simply gone full circle.

Spoiler

Not that I'm saying Super is copying One Piece. Just that it's interesting that this particular instant of the trope more closely mirrors One Piece's usage/homage of it.

 

[B-Dubs]

I actually agree with the post you quoted.

Spoiler

As time went on, he got stronger and stronger and stronger, like some kind of ki parabola. Without that short limit, he probably would've kept evolving until he was wrecking shit.

I dunno,

Spoiler

he really only landed a hit or two that entire fight. It looked like it brought him up to a level where he could hang, but not up to one where he could win outright. And it does look like everyone else is about to go tag-team on Jiren

.

My dude had Jiren a bit shook for a moment.

It almost looks like he got him in the balls there, but only because of Jiren's top heavy body shape.

 

[Morlas]

 

[A Pretty Panda]

This transformation has actual powers inherent to it other than "punch better different hair"

 

[killertofu]

This was the first time I've used CR...what the hell are these ads lol

 

[redfox088]

Man, what an AMAZING episode!

Spoiler

However, I still don't quite understand what Goku did to power up as he clearly didn't absorb the Genkidama. What was it then?

So I’m think kuririn’s comment on why goku can’t do the genkidama in ssj because of malice and goku falling into the genkidama whilst in ssgb may be significant.

 

[A-V-B]

I dunno,

Spoiler

he really only landed a hit or two that entire fight. It looked like it brought him up to a level where he could hang, but not up to one where he could win outright. And it does look like everyone else is about to go tag-team on Jiren

.

Spoiler

But it was even said that Goku was rapidly evolving as he was fighting, so I'm taking the show on its word here. Dude just would've kept climbing the ladder, but right as he was reaching the next rung he ran out of juice.

 

[kiaaa]

This transformation has actual powers inherent to it other than "punch better different hair"

Goku's movements and stances are really cool. Reminds me of some other shows, notably HxH. Seems like it's a bit inspired by Netero animation-wise.

 

[Khansolo1]

So just responding to you is being confrontational? Was it the "no?" The no was lighthearted sarcasm considering the episode just released lol, so maybe we should consider spoilers for other, at least for a little while, no?

Spoiler

;b

Lol my bad, totally misread your post.

 

[mysteriousmage09]

The special actually delivered! That was really good!

 

[Piku_Ringo]

Need a gif of Jiren making Goku kneel

 

[Unbounded]

So I'm just on Sakugabooru sifting through gifs of this episode.

Spoiler

So. Fucking. Good.

 

[LotusHD]

You've made this far, you should know db super has no thought or heart in it by now. I watch db super purely to see the z fighters fight random shit. Its like a video game but in anime form. Just watch Z or GT if you want effort in your anime.

I wouldn't go that far, but people certainly overthink DBZ/DBS far too much. It never was, and never will be that type of show.

 

[zeioIIDX]

Last GIF, I promise. This moment was just too damn cool though.

 

[J4g3r]

Wasn't that kind of the point though? The fact we didn't even know and it appeared no different than x10 is supposed to be a "Oh shit" moment

It didn't even look like he was using x10 though, that's my problem.

I get what they were trying to do though (like Namek).

 

[Kalentan]

Come on! Make it happen!

Honestly looking at it, Ultra Instinct looks like the next step after Ultimate imho.

 

[JasonUresti]

I dunno,

Spoiler

he really only landed a hit or two that entire fight. It looked like it brought him up to a level where he could hang, but not up to one where he could win outright. And it does look like everyone else is about to go tag-team on Jiren

.

Thats the impression I had as well. Goku was now strong enough to make it a fight, but Jiren still seemed to only be in low gear.

 

[LotusHD]

Come on! Make it happen!

Honestly looking at it, Ultra Instinct looks like the next step after Ultimate imho.

Eww, get your own form Gohan

 

[B-Dubs]

Spoiler

But it was even said that Goku was rapidly evolving as he was fighting, so I'm taking the show on its word here. Dude just would've kept climbing the ladder, but right as he was reaching the next rung he ran out of juice.

Spoiler

He definitely seemed to be getting more and more used to the form, but I'm not entirely sold on the idea the raw power is there.

Thats the impression I had as well. Goku was now strong enough to make it a fight, but Jiren still seemed to only be in low gear.

Yea, he only seemed to shift a gear higher with that final punch.

 

[Magwik]

 

[Kalentan]

Eww, get your own form Gohan

I mean Goku steals a lot of moves so at least let Gohan steal this one!

I would like for him to have his own form that's equivalent or stronger but I think UI Gohan looks great.

 

[Icyflamez96]

Shida?

 

[Fulminator]

... Really?

Are everyone's expectations just lower with Super or something? I don't mean to go into a rant here or anything but seeing people compare this to Goku's SSJ transformation or Gohan's SSJ2 transformation just has me absolutely baffled.

Sure in visuals this looked pretty great (at least after the actual transformation before it the animation quality was once again extremely sub par) but if thats really the only standard that matters then why even watch this show when half the time the animation quality is just god awful?

These transformations used to actually mean something and since SSJ3 they just haven't felt special anymore. The moment Goku first turns into a Super Sayjin is legendary, it's Goku going beyond his limits as his rage awakens past everything we had known of Goku to that point. His transformation is scary and almost demonic in a way as if Goku might very well lose his humanity by awakening to this new power.

Gohan's transformation is fairly different but again its used as character development. For 150+ episodes we've been teased at what Gohan can really do, we would see quick glimpses of his hidden potential in almost every arc but in this moment his true ability (well at least at the time) awakens and he not only surpasses himself but surpasses Goku, its the passing of the torch in the most Shonen way possible regardless of what they've done with the story since then and its used to help Gohan grow as a character, letting himself lose control for once and ultimately having to live with the actions he ends up taking.

My point is that those transformations MEAN something, they show the characters at their absolute peak of power but also at their most vulnerable. Each of them is used to move the characters forward as they learn new things about themselves and we see sides of them we had never even thought possible. Goku almost loses himself to his rage, in a way Gohan actually does since him wanting to have Cell suffer before he kills him is ultimately what gets Goku killed at the end of the Cell arc.

Both of those transformations have very different outcomes for each character and while we'd get many many many transformations after these two after these the transformations just stopped having meaning and this transformation is no different. This could have been used as character development for Goku, maybe for once being completely out powered and out classed in a long damn time actually makes him realize how much hes underestimated everything with this tournament or just at how if he can't win then hes going to not only lose his life but his family and everything he holds dear as well.

But we don't get anything even remotely like that, he just powers up, looks cool for a few minutes and then its over. While it is refreshing to see a power up of such a clear magnitude ultimately not automatically overcome the current enemy I think the setup is made pretty clear that Goku's going to end up using that power to defeat Jiran in the end which isn't a terrible thing but it once against just boils down to yet another obvious transformation that is only used as a plot device to keep the story moving forward when it could be more then that.

So yeah, I didn't find these episodes or the new transformation very interesting, it certainly doesn't make me think this is the 'end' of transformations for Goku by any means (well unless Super ends right after this arc or something) nor does this transformation lend itself to being all that interesting on its own. Sure it looks cool now but if its just like Blue and we see it so frequently will anyone still really think its special?

Cool fights beat narrative in dragon Ball every time

If I was going to watch a show for it's narrative it wouldn't be dragonball

 

[J4g3r]

 

[LotusHD]

I mean Goku steals a lot of moves so at least let Gohan steal this one!

I would like for him to have his own form that's equivalent or stronger but I think UI Gohan looks great.

I only accept Vegeta stealing new forms, sorry, Gohan need to come up with his own shit.

 

[A-V-B]

Shida?

yup

 

[redfox088]

Um, possible plot hole?

In DBZ fight against Vegeta, Goku used Genki dama against him, but Vegeta dodged and it went Gohan's way. Goku said one who has no evil intent can deflect it away, and Gohan did. Now in DB Super, Jiren, assuming he had evil intent couldn't deflect it easily but had to rely on brute force to do so, but why couldn't Goku deflect it out of pure heart? Or is the writer telling us Goku is evil in some ways? Kinda meta right here.

Super saiyan is malicious ko.

 

[Icyflamez96]

So... The aura was just from the spirit bomb energy, and Goku should always have the "ultra instinct" ability? Not sure how that works yet.

 

[Auto_aim1]

Vegeta has always hesitated to do something like this (Cell fight etc). He was even reluctant to fuse with Goku. It's just his pride stuff, doesn't mean he's a jerk or anything.

Although, he gave Trunks his energy pretty fast in the Fused Zamasu fight.

 

[Fulminator]

Alright fam I am out

That was some pure dragonball

See y'all later

 

[Icyflamez96]

Alright fam I am out

That was some pure dragonball

See y'all later

peace

 

[LotusHD]

Vegeta has always hesitated to do something like this (Cell fight etc) He was even reluctant to fuse with Goku. It's just his pride stuff, doesn't mean he's a jerk or anything.

By that logic, Vegeta was never a jerk when it came to stuff like letting Cell achieve his perfect form.

 

[B-Dubs]

So... The aura was just from the spirit bomb energy, and Goku should always have the "ultra instinct" ability? Not sure how that works yet.

I think so. The eyes gave out before the aura, so he probably needs a certain amount of stamina/energy to maintain the ability.

 

[kiaaa]

Vegeta has always hesitated to do something like this (Cell fight etc). He was even reluctant to fuse with Goku. It's just his pride stuff, doesn't mean he's a jerk or anything.

Although, he gave Trunks his energy pretty fast in the Fused Zamasu fight.

It does mean he's a jerk, that's like one of his main character traits.

Also the Trunks shit was an ass pull in like seven different directions.

 

[LotusHD]

Low-key kind of wish Cell was a part of this team as well...

 

[J4g3r]

So... The aura was just from the spirit bomb energy, and Goku should always have the "ultra instinct" ability? Not sure how that works yet.

They described it as a state, so I'm thinking it's all in the eyes - he's going to be able to use it with any transformation I bet.

 

[mavo]

So... The aura was just from the spirit bomb energy, and Goku should always have the "ultra instinct" ability? Not sure how that works yet.

I hope the aura is part of it, it looks so cool.

 

[kitzkozan]

It has thought and heart, just coming from a very different place with different goals.

Dragon Ball is wrestling / mma in anime form, where people just have to fight someone or something because it's a fighting anime. You could invoke universe ending scenarios, but it's all about crazy powered people beating the crap out of each other. Crazy powerful antagonists must conquer the universe or destroy everything because why not lol. The colorful and unique world building can't be understated as well.

I never saw Dragon Ball as being a smart anime because it's not, but it did have plenty of humor in it's early days. The wrestling angles were rather tight in Z (lol) and it's what introduced me to mindgames since characters were constantly using them to gain a competitive advantage.

 

[kiaaa]

On a side note, I don't think we're gonna get any cool Gohan shit this arc like I was hoping. They kinda dropped hints, but it doesn't seem likely at this point.

 

[J4g3r]

On a side note, I don't think we're gonna get any cool Gohan shit this arc like I was hoping. They kinda dropped hints, but it doesn't seem likely at this point.

25 minutes left

 

[A-V-B]

25 minutes left

Tops. 25 minutes.

 

[LotusHD]

On a side note, I don't think we're gonna get any cool Gohan shit this arc like I was hoping. They kinda dropped hints, but it doesn't seem likely at this point.

I dunno what he could possibly get that'd let him get near Goku and Jiren's level, but uhh, good luck I guess lol

Still waiting for him to "be back"

 

[grandjedi6]

Super saiyan is malicious ko.

We haven't seen nimbus in ages either