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Dragon Ball Super |OT9| Genki-Drama

P

Permanently A

Junior Member
Man I... really don't like this arc at all. They billed it as a battle royale but for like 30 episodes we had stupid 1v1 fights with shitty jobber characters with trash designs and Vegeta and Goku offscreen/tied up doing something stupid. They used that godawful and completely unbelievable excuse of conserving stamina when they should have just made it a 1 on 1 tournament because that's what it ended up being for the most part. Some of the fights are so fucking sloppy, jesus. Frost beats on Roshi while Vegeta is literally just standing there, then Frost notices Vegeta and shoots a blast at him, and then Vegeta sucker punches Frost in the face. Wow, who could have seen that coming. And that time Goku is trapped by some guy for the whole episode in base form while someone is getting their ass beat, and then at the very end he just busts out with SSB. Also, all of the tropes they used in this arc just feel so overused and tired. They beat the blind fighter with a stinky shoe. The strong guys just stand around to conserve stamina. God this is such a shitty plot device - its clear Jiren could literally clear 95% of the participants out without breaking a sweat.

Also these people are all just lunatics at this point. Everyone shitting on 17 for not letting the Love girls transform was just ridiculous. The universe is at stake but Goku is more concerned about muh good fight than anything. The show has escalated the power levels to a point where motivations aren't grounded and Goku definitely isn't a protagonist I can root for anymore. Why should I care about Goku when he doesn't care about anything?

Now Jiren and Goku are fighting, and its a cool fight and all, but I just don't give a shit. Jiren is literally just a strong guy, we know absolutely nothing about him other than that. Why care about his character?
 
H

HeroR

Member
Kagari said:
It's more of a technique in the show but not so much in marketing. But then again, Heroes called KKx20 a new form so...
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The form is more than just a technique since Whis didn't know what was the energy coming from Goku's body and it didn't seem to be related to him moving instantly.
 
D

Dark_castle

Junior Member
The "bad guys" have always been underwhelming in Dragon Ball franchise tbh. Super at least tried with Zamasu and new Frieza fucking around. I think they will explore Jiren's backstory soon enough.
 
H

HeroR

Member
Kevinroc said:
I didn't say I considered Gohan at #6. I'd probably put him in the top 10 somewhere. I'd definitely put him above Dyspo, but below Toppo.
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I have nothing from Gohan that put him above Dypso, especially since Dypso could trade hands with Hit.
 
H

HeroR

Member
Fulminator said:
To those of you saying that the new form/ui isn't enough to beat jiren, I think you are wrong. During the whole sequence in which Goku was fighting Jiren with UI, Jiren never broke Goku's guard once (iirc), whereas Goku landed multiple blows on Jiren (no matter how effective or ineffective they were, he landed them) Piccolo and Gohan also commented on how his movements and attacks were also continuously evolving during the fight, becoming sharper and more effective. This, coupled with the fact that when UI was brought up by Beerus, even the u11 gods got freaked out, leads me to believe that Jiren does not have this ultra instinct ability. If goku didn't run out of power, he would have kept improving even further and I think he would have one. When we inevitably get a Goku/Jiren rematch, I don't think it's the case that Goku is going to completely outclass Jiren this time around though, he definitely needs more mastery of the technique for that, but I do think that they will either double KO, end in a stalemate, or Goku will win by the skin of his teeth a la the 23rd Tenkaichi budokai. However when Goku does achieve mastery or near mastery of UI I don't think even Jiren will able to land a finger on Goku without achieving the technique himself.


I hope Vegeta knocks out Ribrianne next episode. I was down with her at first but she's a joke at this point, as many of you have said.

Also mouse god is clearly confident bc he has two undetectable fighters. Honestly, I could see a scenario in which we never actually see the bugs fight, U4 "wins" because they have more fighters on the field, but Zeno disqualifies the bugs because he thinks it's lame that he never saw them fight. Or something like that.
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I wouldn't go that far. If Goku does beat Jiren, I expect it to be a hard won match that takes everything Goku has and more.
 
C

caliph95

Member
Kevinroc said:
Once you get around Dyspo's secret, he folds like a house of cards. Considering that Gohan instantly knew what Freeza was up to in 108, I think he could handle Dyspo and his secret if he took it seriously.
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There's a difference in knowing a characters is holding back and getting around someone who can in a moment move faster than GoDs eyes and Gohan couldn't do anything against Yadrar and his tactics has been brute force and Gohan isn't Goku or Hit in battle smarts
 
G

Galactic Specter

Member
Sure Vegeta had to defend Goku as he charged the spirit bomb but we all know he still holds a grudge against that move for being what made him retreat when he came to earth. Meanwhile Frieza took that attack head on back on Namek and gladly gave Goku his energy to charge it.
 
H

HeroR

Member
Kevinroc said:
Once you get around Dyspo's secret, he folds like a house of cards. Considering that Gohan instantly knew what Freeza was up to in 108, I think he could handle Dyspo and his secret if he took it seriously.
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Knowing something doesn't matter if you're too slow to act. Plus, Gohan isn't that smart in battle since he never could counter the IT, despite his dad having it for decades.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
Freeza seems to be doing a lot more thinking and helping push Goku and Gohan's limits. I think he's crowd-sourcing breakthroughs so he can learn them.
 
K

Kevinroc

Member
HeroR said:
I have nothing from Gohan that put him above Dypso, especially since Dypso could trade hands with Hit.
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Kevinroc said:
Once you get around Dyspo's secret, he folds like a house of cards. Considering that Gohan instantly knew what Freeza was up to in 108, I think he could handle Dyspo and his secret if he took it seriously.
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caliph95 said:
There's a difference in knowing a characters is holding back and getting around someone who can in a moment move faster than GoDs eyes and Gohan couldn't do anything against Yadrar and his tactics has been brute force and Gohan isn't Goku or Hit in battle smarts
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Gohan's encounter with Freeza in 108 (despite how dumb he acted with the Yardrat fighter) shows that, while he's not Goku or Hit in battle smarts, that he isn't a total scrub on the battle field either. We saw that Dyspo himself was quite capable of screwing up on his own with how he dealt with Maji Kayo.
 
H

HardRojo

Member
Galactic Specter said:
Sure Vegeta had to defend Goku as he charged the spirit bomb but we all know he still holds a grudge against that move for being what made him retreat when he came to earth. Meanwhile Frieza took that attack head on back on Namek and gladly gave Goku his energy to charge it.
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Frieza is kind of a wild card though at times (though within reason, as his actions ultimately make sense), I mean, I didn't expect him to pay back Goku's favor in Namek.
 
K

Kevinroc

Member
HeroR said:
Knowing something doesn't matter if you're too slow to act. Plus, Gohan isn't that smart in battle since he never could counter the IT, despite his dad having it for decades.
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Gohan's actions against the Yardrat fighter can only be described, as other boards I've frequented put it, as "plot induced stupidity." The show NEEDED Gohan to struggle. Even Freeza called Gohan out on not taking that fight seriously.
 
H

HeroR

Member
Kevinroc said:
Gohan's encounter with Freeza in 108 (despite how dumb he acted with the Yardrat fighter) shows that, while he's not Goku or Hit in battle smarts, that he isn't a total scrub on the battle field either. We saw that Dyspo himself was quite capable of screwing up on his own with how he dealt with Maji Kayo.
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That is one of the few times Gohan was smart and it was someone else's behalf, not his own. And as you pointed out, he couldn't the Yardrat who is way below Dypso.

Dypso got cocky with Maji Kayo since he didn't know about his weird body. Gohan has no such advantage.

Kevinroc said:
Gohan's actions against the Yardrat fighter can only be described, as other boards I've frequented put it, as "plot induced stupidity." The show NEEDED Gohan to struggle. Even Freeza called Gohan out on not taking that fight seriously.
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Something isn't PIS when it happened all the time. Gohan just isn't that good of a fighter. His few smart moments are actually him holding the Smart Ball.
 
Represent.

Represent.

Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Legit there's no way Goku can ever beat Jiren. The motherfucker stopped a spirtbomb kaiokenx20 with his fucking eyelids.

There will be no Jiren losing. Instead it's gonna be Goku, Jiren &co joining forces to take on the evil angels.

That evil Angel smirk way back gotta lead to something. Hype
 
T

The Silver

Member
HeroR said:
Team work almost never takes down a massive more powerful opponent. Case in point, Nappa, Recoome, Frieza, and Beerus.

Kid Buu and were the exceptions with Goku massively weakened Vegeta and Kid Buu being killed by an universal Spirit Bomb.
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you saying there were exceptions already proves that yes it can happen again, Saiyan saga Vegeta was the best showcase of a team effort. It's a direction they can go down if they really wanted to, I don't think they will at all, a lot of it depends on how Hit does.

I never said anything about it working, I brought up Frieza, I just like it when everyone teams up to try and take down an overwhelming force, whether it works or not, shows the guts and desperation. Tien getting his arm punched off, Krillin cutting off Frieza's tail, Piccolo buying time for the spirit bomb, good shit.
 
Z

ZangBa

Member
That weird Japanese rock music or whatever thqt played when UI Goku started fighting Jiren made me really miss Bruce Faulconer music.
 
H

HeroR

Member
The Silver said:
you saying there were exceptions already proves that yes it can happen again, Saiyan saga Vegeta was the best showcase of a team effort. It's a direction they can go down if they really wanted to, I don't think they will at all, a lot of it depends on how Hit does.

I never said anything about it working, I brought up Frieza, I just like it when everyone teams up to try and take down an overwhelming force, whether it works or not, shows the guts and desperation. Tien getting his arm punched off, Krillin cutting off Frieza's tail, Piccolo buying time for the spirit bomb, good shit.
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Jiren is closer to Beerus than Vegeta who was only a little over twice as strong as Goku. Beerus got jumped by all the Z-Fighters, took on Rage Vegeta, and then Super Saiyan God Goku and still had plenty energy left over to wipe everyone without trying. Jiren can do much the same, especially since the Spirt Bomb, which is a teamwork attack, did crap to him.
 
K

Kevinroc

Member
HeroR said:
That is one of the few times Gohan was smart and it was someone else's behalf, not his own. And as you pointed out, he couldn't the Yardrat who is way below Dypso.

Dypso got cocky with Maji Kayo since he didn't know about his weird body. Gohan has no such advantage.

Something isn't PIS when it happened all the time. Gohan just isn't that good of a fighter. His few smart moments are actually him holding the Smart Ball.
Click to expand...

Dyspo got cocky with Hit as well. That's his biggest weakness. I can't see Gohan losing to such a foe in this arc if they were to actually fight, given the emphasis the narrative has placed on Gohan's overcoming that specific weakness.

(The PIS-induced fight with Jimizu notwithstanding. Characters in this arc keep letting their guard down even after saying they won't.)
 
T

Tsunamo

Member
Watching the Funimation version I feel like I missed out on so much with that scene they cut from the two episode version. Like I missed an entire struggle between Goku and Jiren with the spirit bomb, it seemed so one sided with Jiren just pushing it back in the two episode cut.
 
G

Galactic Specter

Member
The Light said:
Why was u7 eliminated members allowed to contribute to the spirit bomb. That was outside interference.
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38340594.jpg
 
K

Kevinroc

Member
The Light said:
Why was u7 eliminated members allowed to contribute to the spirit bomb. That was outside interference.
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Even the Kamikaze Fireball that got knocked out was able to contribute to Rebrianne's transformation at the beginning of the episode (and they even used items)
 
F

foxuzamaki

Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Mory Dunz said:
Well, yeah, that's always awesome and welcome.


....But Jiren isn't cool. He's just strong. A rematch with Hit would honestly be more compelling at the moment.
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I mean that usually goes hand and hand in a action anime, the thing is jiren backed up his hype they tried to get him over and they did just that and a grand majority of fans agree
 
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