Hopefully not. Game looks and sounds great and I think lots of people on here are excited to play it.
Dragon's Crown Reviews
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Hopefully not. Game looks and sounds great and I think lots of people on here are excited to play it.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
Just running would make them jiggle
SlasherJPC
Banned
Agree 100% with you on that.
TheChillyAcademic
Member
And for every Elena Fisher and Alyx Vance there are Sylvia Christel and Sorceresses. How many can you name that are the male equivalent? As you said before, the "26 pack" protagonists that give male gamer's NO CHANCE of ever competing with.
Deified Data
Banned
Call it the Chell Effect:
The phenomenon which sees otherwise rational gaming enthusiasts demanding asexual depictions of women in games as an alternative to more sexualized depictions, totally oblivious to the notion that what they demand is every bit as sexist as the alternative.
The first step to throwing off the shackles of sexism in the gaming community is to stop focusing so much on appearance and focus more on character. It's my belief that a female character could run around totally nude and flaunt her sexuality flagrantly and still be an interesting character with depth so long as she's written that way. Her appearance isn't what's holding her back - it's the mindset of the men (probably) writing her.
Now, can appearance lend itself to having that negative mindset? Absolutely. Seeing sexualized caricatures of women can hammer home the belief that women are meant to be sexual objects. But the depiction is not the source. That rests in family, community, culture, what have you - videogames are the last place people should expect to receive accurate depictions of women (or anyone, for that matter) from, but it is what it is.
I think we can all agree that women need and deserve more varied representation in gaming - they shouldn't all be sexual objects or chaste, asexual Nice Guy fantasies of what they presume an empowered woman should look like.
You should design the everyday loincloth for men to wear in everyday life then. If it's true that a wiggly dick is hugely attractive to women, that's a huge portion of the market not being served right now. According to you it helps, then it should quickly become just as popular as the low cut dress for women and make you a bazillionaire.
GinAndIronic
Banned
I was watching IGN's livestream earlier and I'm super hyped. Definitely snagging this on my Vita.
Jacksonlee
Member
well, given how most of the characters are abnormal in all of Dragon's Crown's realm, i would say any other characters in any other video games are considered normal and close to realistic emulations of human beings. - isn't that why there is controversy in DC's designs? this excludes monsters, aliens, and other life forms.
No, this argument would have merit if the Sorceress was an NPC bar maiden or servant girl. But in fact she is depicted as just as powerful as the men in the game.
Riposte
Member
Why are videogames limited to "story" or "gameplay"? What about overall aesthetics? Visuals. Atmosphere. What are the breasts on a woman in a nude painting in service of?
It just so happens The Last of Us is a power fantasy enjoyed by young males everywhere. I'm not even going to bother to ask what Vire qualifies as "adolescent".
Now back to the point you completely missed (again): What evidence do you have that you know the mindset of the people responsible for this game? I.e. that you know they created things the way they did to pander?
Jacksonlee
Member
apparently the women in this game are only powerful because men want them to be powerful. or something like that.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
I think it's better that this kind of thing is kept out of the OT.
The OT should be about people discussing the actual game.
Knux-Future
Banned
It's funny that the same exact arguments are being made....yet again.
thanks Polygon.
thanks Polygon.
TheChillyAcademic
Member
I never said a wiggly dick is HUGELY attractive to women. You just did. I was poking fun at your comment because in some situations (not that I'd expect you to agree) a big dick can help
But no, seeing men in nothing but a loincloth is by no means a standard. Though some loincloths cover more skin than many thongs today!
Vire
Member
You completely edited, cut and pasted my post to fit your arguement. But whatever floats your boat. I made my point abundantly clear in the full post.
If that isn't good enough for you, I'm not sure what else to say. But that's my opinion.
Leaving aside the question of who they thought that kind of character archetype would appeal to, I'm sure they did, not really aiming for that right now.
My point is, because they're male, the (only/first/best/preferred)way they think of nailing that look is GIANT FAKE TITS.
Unfortunately if you're not a male in that age demographic, you look at that and get slightly irritated.
Ultimadrago
Member
I have my expectations in check. However, I am quite looking forward to getting my hands on the game and playing with friends locally and online!
Architechnophile
Member
Did you read the review? It specifically mentions that the NPC characters are objectified and lack agency.
I can see women being more offended by this if anything.
Riposte
Member
You haven't confronted any of the points I've made in the post you've just quoted. Most importantly, the original point. This isn't about "opinion". You cannot support your opinion when confronted.
EDIT: And what I cut out was unnecessary to quote.
IHaveCandy
Banned
That's incredibly insulting to men.
Kaori's Babydaddy
Banned
I don't see how dudes can say that they'd be embarrased playing this around company. You know what game would really do that? Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball.
If someone's that concerned that let the guest or fam play the game with you rather than just watching you.
If someone's that concerned that let the guest or fam play the game with you rather than just watching you.
I never said a wiggly dick is HUGELY attractive to women. You just did. I was poking fun at your comment because in some situations (not that I'd expect you to agree) a big dick can help
But no, seeing men in nothing but a loincloth is by no means a standard. Though some loincloths cover more skin than many thongs today!
Look my point is the male equivalent of accentuating breasts is not at all a huge flopping dick. Women themselves often accentuate the breast and butt, whereas men will put the focus on their abs and arms to attract the other sex visually.
Call it the Chell Effect:
The phenomenon which sees otherwise rational gaming enthusiasts demanding asexual depictions of women in games as an alternative to more sexualized depictions, totally oblivious to the notion that what they demand is every bit as sexist as the alternative.
The first step to throwing off the shackles of sexism in the gaming community is to stop focusing so much on appearance and focus more on character. It's my belief that a female character could run around totally nude and flaunt her sexuality flagrantly and still be an interesting character with depth so long as she's written that way. Her appearance isn't what's holding her back - it's the mindset of the men (probably) writing her.
Now, can appearance lend itself to having that negative mindset? Absolutely. Seeing sexualized caricatures of women can hammer home the belief that women are meant to be sexual objects. But the depiction is not the source. That rests in family, community, culture, what have you - videogames are the last place people should expect to receive accurate depictions of women (or anyone, for that matter) from, but it is what it is.
I think we can all agree that women need and deserve more varied representation in gaming - they shouldn't all be sexual objects or chaste, asexual Nice Guy fantasies of what they presume an empowered woman should look like.
End this damn "debate". You either play the game or you don't
Wonderful post, will read again
notworksafe
Member
Co Optimus review seems to be mostly positive for local co-op so this is looking like a buy for me. My girlfriend was looking forward to this game and I was hoping the local co-op wouldn't be broken or a "second class" mode in the game.
Need more games like this that emphasize local co-op!
Need more games like this that emphasize local co-op!
A fictional story set in a historical time period has a specific reason to make females act a certain way and have certain roles in the story. They want to appear realistic to the time period they are setting it in. And even in those kind of films you'll often see them add some amount of female characters taking active roles in the story.
And fantasy stories often do see criticism for having worlds where females have no agency. "This story has no women" is a fairly common complaint leveled at Lord of the Rings, for example.
IHaveCandy
Banned
What if she liked to wait somewhat revealing clothing? What if she was very confident in her body and didnt mind letting them sway a bit?
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
By God this has to get through Greenlight.
You should familiarise yourself with secondary sexual characteristics, the male equivalent to heaving bosoms is not a throbbing cock.
This is an amazing article.
MaximusPrimus
Member
Why are people complaining about how women are depicted???? Those (BBW) DO exist in our world, and there are a frickin' lot of them (my gf included). WTF is the problem????? I wouldn't want it any other way.
TheChillyAcademic
Member
Ultimadrago
Member
Agreed. I love local co-op.
IHaveCandy
Banned
Don't you think Dragon's Crown is a fictional setting based a lot on middle-age thinking?
Delusibeta
Banned
I can think of four games where that's possible: Saints Row, Saints Row 2, Saints Row The Third and Saints Row 4. Largely because every main character is customiseable to a ridiculous extent, and hence the dialogue has to be kept relatively genderless.
If anything, it's online co-op that's second class: it's locked until mid way through the game. I can certainly understand locking it for the first couple of levels, but after level 9 is a bit late in my book. Thankfully, local co-op is available from the start in the PS3 version (the Vita version has the Ad Hoc mode locked away to the same point, which is really dumb).
Jacksonlee
Member
Call it the Chell Effect:
The phenomenon which sees otherwise rational gaming enthusiasts demanding asexual depictions of women in games as an alternative to more sexualized depictions, totally oblivious to the notion that what they demand is every bit as sexist as the alternative.
The first step to throwing off the shackles of sexism in the gaming community is to stop focusing so much on appearance and focus more on character. It's my belief that a female character could run around totally nude and flaunt her sexuality flagrantly and still be an interesting character with depth so long as she's written that way. Her appearance isn't what's holding her back - it's the mindset of the men (probably) writing her.
Now, can appearance lend itself to having that negative mindset? Absolutely. Seeing sexualized caricatures of women can hammer home the belief that women are meant to be sexual objects. But the depiction is not the source. That rests in family, community, culture, what have you - videogames are the last place people should expect to receive accurate depictions of women (or anyone, for that matter) from, but it is what it is.
I think we can all agree that women need and deserve more varied representation in gaming - they shouldn't all be sexual objects or chaste, asexual Nice Guy fantasies of what they presume an empowered woman should look like.
+1
Vire
Member
Then I would question the developer for ulterior motives on what their intention was when creating the character.
Is that the in-game explanation? Does Sorceress have a canonical reason for wearing impractical clothing while going on a physically active adventure? Honest question
It is. But when people do things instinctively without thinking or being made aware of how others perceive what they do, that's what happens.
Fortunately, most people do a better job of thinking about things if people raise the issue. Some get offended that the issue was raised in the first place, but those people are always there.
Angry Puppy
Member
i agree with the polygon score. no interest in this game
Deified Data
Banned
I remember we had an excellent thread about how Saints Row was the most empowering franchise in gaming a while back. I had a few niggling issues with that claim, but by and large I agree that the series does an excellent job of presenting you with this powerful female main character but still giving her some gendered speech (wanting to fuck Pierce, for example) that mate her essentially a woman and not just a female avatar like Femshep.
RoboGeorgeForeman
Banned
I thought this video did a good job explaining the mechanics: http://youtu.be/0UdxgvM11o8
Also put me in the camp that's more turned off by the gratuitous violence in today's videogames than a busty sorcereress ( who I plan to main as I love mage characters ).
Edit: Now that I think about it there have always been violent games, but it's more or less the realistic violence in games like GoW3 and TLoU that bothers me. Things like Bloody Mess and the goofy assassination moves in Tenchu don't bother me at all.
meltingparappa
Member
Look at this lazy/disgusting/low-hanging-fruit/demeaning/unrealistic "art."
There's no place in the painted medium for such a juvenile depiction of women.
6/10
Rollo Lawson
Banned
Vita. I don't spend much time on my PS3 and I really want to play this...
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