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[Amir0x]

The buzz wasn't from a visual experience, it was from an unprecedented visual experience. The graphics on the psp are nothing new, they are just what you get from the ps2 or a bit worse. Even so, most of the buzz came from the freedom of 3D and the amazing control. Stuff that was new. How about Streetfighter 2? Or Super Mario Kart? Or even Tetris?

Every single objective person who has played a PSP is floored by the - wait for it - unprecedented visuals available to this little device. In a handheld sense, it is actually a comparable experience. Visually nothing can equal the first full blown competent 3D experience of a console, but it's actually not at all farfetched. If you're objective, your mind has been blown by what the PSP has to offer visually. People keep trying to say that it won't be a comparable experience because consoles have already offered this. But it goes without saying that sort of level of being impressed is significantly increased on a handheld.

Because those games weren't as good as Katamari, they were better.
The point is, if you get two games that are EQUALLY as good, the one that offers a new experience will be the one that offers a better experience. Sure once the initial novelty wears off it loses some of its lustre, but that novelty is a part of the experience. The novelty can define the experience. Sure a few years down the road if you replay games the once new game will seem only as good as the uninnovative game, but by then the point is moot.

But that's not true. If they're EQUALLY as good they're EQUALLY as good. That's what the word means - equal. You might prefer the one that offers a "new" experience, but it won't be "better" - it'll be equal. That's what it means!

There was a time when the rumble function seemed cool. It's not anymore.

Now this is a vastly different enterprise and obviously the gameplay possibilities are leaps and bounds beyond that novelty, but the same base rule applies. A great game on DS will be equally great as a great game on PSP. And that's a guarantee.

If you have a killer app, would you release it to the 1 million psp owners who buy around 3 games each, or would you release it to the 70 million ps2 owners who buy 6 games each? Fact is the likes of FF12 etc will all be released on consoles. The psp is almost inevitibly destined to be the ps2s little brother. Then in a year or so, when the next gen hits the psp games will look a major downgrade from consoles, so again it will striggle to see a killer app.

Again, speculation based on nothing. And I don't spin speculation. I take the evidence we have and apply it to what we know. We know, for instance, a great innovative game will be just as great as a great "regular" game - this has held true so far and nothing has changed it. And no matter how many times we try to dance around it it won't change.

We do not, however, know exactly how much people will invest on a system that offers the capabilities of PSP. Sure, next generation is right around the corner - but even when that comes the experience that will be able to be offered on that system will still be a step up. What happens when someone tries to port a Xenon game to PSP and DS? If your example holds true then DS will also end up looking like a major downgrade from consoles, only worse. And before you try to fool yourself that the touch screen will some how force this not to happen - no, it won't. Ever. But thanks.

On the other hand, with the DS the whole point is different gameplay. With the touchscreen you can do stuff no one else can, and so if you have a killer app that needs the touchscreen, you HAVE to release it for the DS. No choice.

Again, this supplants the idea that gameplay experiences on DS are fundamentally different. They're not.

 

[DDayton]

I think the DS's best chance against the PSP will come from the larger base it is establishing at the outset. If someone buys a DS, they are less likely to go off and buy a PSP right away. If Nintendo can keep their momentum going, they could easily keep the PSP at bay for quite a while.

 

[Hero]

We could argue whether or not the way the touch/dual screens are being used forever. While all of GAF is in a heated debate over it, I can say that despite if the ways its being used are innovative or not to us, to the general public, it is. Tons of people (mostly girls) who have never played video games are asking to see my DS and to try it out because they're curious. And that's all that matters really.

 

[DSN2K]

I think the DS's best chance against the PSP will come from the larger base it is establishing at the outset. If someone buys a DS, they are less likely to go off and buy a PSP right away. If Nintendo can keep their momentum going, they could easily keep the PSP at bay for quite a while.

well at least till GBA2

 

[Socreges]

Iwata: "Wow, they're actually buying it."

Miyamoto: "Yeah."

Iwata: "Soo... when's the next game coming out?"

Miyamoto: "Hmmm.."

Iwata: "Sorry?"

Miyamoto: "No, I was just thinking."

Iwata: "Oh."

Miyamoto: "Yeah."

Iwata: "..."

Miyamoto: "Well, we've got Frogger coming in January."

Iwata: "No, that's February."

Miyamoto: "Right, right..."

Iwata: "They're gonna be pissed, aren't they?"

Miyamoto: "I'd rather not think about it."

 

[Odnetnin]

iwata's one of those guys with a paunchy lower region. Eww.

 

[Socreges]

Miyamoto: "We really need to talk before we come to these things."

Iwata: "What? Why?"

Miyamoto: "We're wearing the same fucking clothes, man."

Iwata: "..."

Miyamoto: "...."

Iwata: "....my belt is black."

 

[imastalker co.]

But it doesn't force them. At all. This is clearly represented by the fact that nearly every game on DS is derivative crap so far.

cut the teams that worked on these games some slack man. it's not like they had much time to develop games. not to mention that it was their first time developing on such a radically designed system.

Now I haven't played Madden DS, so I won't judge it. But based on every single review we have it is not even in the same ballpark quality as the console Maddens, regardless of some fly-by play drawing. Similarly, what you describe here does not "increase" the strategy. It just adds a layer of convenience. That's all good and well, but there are about a billion things that can be done in a Football that are far more important. And apparantely Madden DS does not fit these requisites. Now, maybe given more development time we'll see a sort of love given to it that can elevate the title. But my point was not whether you could do different things, but whether those different things make a title fundamentally better. And the answer to that question is most definitely no.

well, first off. due to such short development time, EA wasn't able to implement features such as on the fly play making, and well, anything else really that people actually cared about.

what i do find well, a bit silly is how you feel that on-the-fly play making would add nothing more than an added layer of convenience. im gonna call this go ahead and call this a guarenteed hunch, but having the ability to draw your players routes before each play, or just during an audible, will add a whole new level of depth, and stratedgy, that no football game out there has ever offered. especially when you take into consideration that the next Madden DS will absolutely have online play. for reference, i heard from guys at EA that they got all the online DS protocols / kits around 8-28-04. i'd imagine all other big 3rd party developers also got them around the same time.

for someone that has this whole "i don't knock it til i've tried it" mantra going on, i find it a bit insane that you could come up with such a surmise.

None of what you're describing here somehow enhances the funfactor of the gameplay. Or, in other words, it does not somehow give it the upperhand against "regular" gameplay. So, I'll state it again - a great DS game will still be just as great as a great PSP game.

i'll just go ahead and use on the fly play making for football games as my example again. it's going to be huge. ask any random dude that's really into football games...and i mean any random dude, what he'd think about having the ability to do to create his own plays on the fly, and chances are, he's gonna reply with "man, that would be thebomb.com"

my shitty un-creative example of on the fly play making, does manage to throw quite a few clouds up into the mix. it definitely gives the DS an edge over the PSP (or any system for that matter) in that genre.

even then, i could really give a shit about Madden. it's gonna be awesome when good football games hit the. when they cut out that whole blimp view on one screen BS, and they start busting out football games where the view spans across both screen, then yeah you won't be able to look at the field from 2 different perspectives, but you'll still have a great broad view of the field. that brings me to another example...

games that span across 2 screens. if that one boss from Sawaru is any indication, the Shmups on the DS are gonna be god like, and a shit load better than PSP ones. for one simple reason, TATE Mode. so look at that, yet another genre that the DS will definitely have an edge over the PSP in.

might i also add, that touch controls in a shmup are pretty damn sweet. if balanced right, they can be just as challenging. without a doubt.

On your example: If PSP wanted to go online, which it already can out of the box btw, all it would need to do is include its mic with the online game of choice and boom everything solved. And then it'll once again fall to a matter of preference - you will either like talking more or writing more. Or maybe then both games will have talking once again making the differences purely visceral.

my point wasn't so much reffering to being able to chat while playing games, but the fact that the system can totally multitask. that's gonna open up yet, another galaxy as far as game development goes.

What you're doing, and it's unfortunate, is gobbling up Nintendo's "it'll change gaming forever" line. It won't. It will create different experiences and these experiences will likely be extraordinarily fun. But they will not be any more fun than a really fun console game or PSP game. That's the point. "Different" != "Better"

what's unforunate is that you're surmising what developers, and the DS are capable of doing based on a shitty rushed launch.

if it hasn't been made clear enough already, the DS had a very weak launch in the US that mainly consisted of nothing but rushed games. obviously nothing is taking advantage of the system. totally doesn't seem like you took development time into consideration.

i totally hate sound like the typical Nintendo fanboy when saying this, but sigh... wait til E3. we've yet to see what Capcom, Konami, Square, and for the most part, Namco are up to. and heck, in just about 2 weeks or so (give a take a few days), we'll be seeing Castlevnia and Boktai. maybe some more stuff.

with the DS, Nintendo really did give developers a blank canvas and said "let's see what you got, cause we're also just as clue less as to what to do with this thing."

so in conclusion... DS = Paradigm Shift.

oh oh oh, and you missed out on a great conversation a few hours ago. was super turbo drunk and everything.

 

[imastalker co.]

and just incase it didn't click with you the first time...

"We can use 4 screen when played by 2 player, maybe even 6 screens, or 8 screens. The number of screens increases rapidily, and that kind of possibility of expansion makes us excited."

-Keiji Inafune (Mega Man, Onimusha)

that's psychotic. you know that guy is on to something.

 

[RoH]

if it hasn't been made clear enough already, the DS had a very weak launch in the US that mainly consisted of nothing but rushed games. obviously nothing is taking advantage of the system. totally doesn't seem like you took development time into consideration.

And I still can't seem to find one any where.

 

[Brofist]

with the DS, Nintendo really did give developers a blank canvas and said "let's see what you got, cause we're also just as clue less as to what to do with this thing."

so in conclusion... DS = Paradigm Shift.

damn they need to fire Reggie and hire you immediately, thats the biggest load of shit I've heard in a while :lol

 

[GaimeGuy]

Miyamoto: "We really need to talk before we come to these things."

Iwata: "What? Why?"

Miyamoto: "We're wearing the same fucking clothes, man."

Iwata: "..."

Miyamoto: "...."

Iwata: "....my belt is black."

:lol

 

[Pimpwerx]

and just incase it didn't click with you the first time...

"We can use 4 screen when played by 2 player, maybe even 6 screens, or 8 screens. The number of screens increases rapidily, and that kind of possibility of expansion makes us excited."

-Keiji Inafune (Mega Man, Onimusha)

that's psychotic. you know that guy is on to something.

I would hope you're kidding, right? It's a handheld, so each player will still have to deal with 2 screens. And the number of screens doesn't "increases rapidly". It's simply double the number of screens. I don't see how twice the number of screens as the PSP will make a damn bit of difference, but hey, we're waiting on that, right?

In the end, we gotta wait for a few things. The PSP's price here and in the PAL territories makes a difference. A $150 PSP here next March does lots of things. Might slow DS, might cause a price drop. We gotta wait to see how Sony ramps up production. The DS will have 3M units by New Year's. By March, that could double. So even if Sony sells all their expected units (3M), they've still got a 3M units deficit. By no means insurmountable, but it Sony doesn't at least match demand by that point, then the gap will only widen. I think it all hinges on the US price. PEACE.

 

[imastalker co.]

I would hope you're kidding, right? It's a handheld, so each player will still have to deal with 2 screens. And the number of screens doesn't "increases rapidly". It's simply double the number of screens. I don't see how twice the number of screens as the PSP will make a damn bit of difference, but hey, we're waiting on that, right?

yeah, you totally missed the point.

 

[Pimpwerx]

yeah, you totally missed the point.

Must have. I mean, that sentence explains it all. :rollies: Seriously, wtf does having a bunch of screens mean? It's still just two per person, and it'll only ever be twice the number of other screens. Is there some touchscreen orgy that's facilitated by having large numbers of DS's in close proximity to each other? PEACE.

 

[Mrbob]

what i do find well, a bit silly is how you feel that on-the-fly play making would add nothing more than an added layer of convenience. im gonna call this go ahead and call this a guarenteed hunch, but having the ability to draw your players routes before each play, or just during an audible, will add a whole new level of depth, and stratedgy, that no football game out there has ever offered.

This is bush league crap that should be kept in the backyard football games. If you are going to make a game with the NFL license I want it as authentic as possible. Teams practice plays over and over and over again during the week for key situations to use during games. They don't draw up a play in the 30-40 seconds time between plays. Touch pad could be nice for quick and easy audiables but this isn't too hard in the first place. Having a play editor to draw plays would be cool. But not on the fly. And the touch pad would be nice to try and help simulate the playmaker control from the console versions.

i'll just go ahead and use on the fly play making for football games as my example again. it's going to be huge. ask any random dude that's really into football games...and i mean any random dude, what he'd think about having the ability to do to create his own plays on the fly, and chances are, he's gonna reply with "man, that would be thebomb.com"

Uh, no. This type of playcalling would be for those who don't care about the NFL and want some wacky arcade style experience.

DS with its touch screen have some potential advantages over PSP, but drawing plays on the fly with a stylus is not one of them.

 

[Deleted member 284]

Uh, no. This type of playcalling would be for those who don't care about the NFL and want some wacky arcade style experience.

DS with its touch screen have some potential advantages over PSP, but drawing plays on the fly with a stylus is not one of them.

While I can agree that on the fly play calling isn't something to occur often in the NFL, it could lead to an intersting type of gameplay. One that hasn't occured in pre-existing games.

 

[imastalker co.]

Is there some touchscreen orgy that's facilitated by having large numbers of DS's in close proximity to each other?

we'll find out once someone has a signigifact reason to make a game that is developed around the idea of using 8+ screens. now, im just as clue less as the next guy as to what can be done with gameplay that revolves around the idea of having a good amount of screens. but hey, i bet my vigin asshole that Inafune is definitely on to something. and when it happens, it's gonna be unlike anything ever done before.

If you are going to make a game with the NFL license I want it as authentic as possible.

hey, more power to you. but like i stated earlier, i have no interest in playing Madden. what i want is a new football game. with fresh innovative idea's. you know, one that was made to take advantage of the DS's unique design.

anyways, not being down with on the fly play making because it's not true to the NFL is stupid for 2 reasons.

1. not everyone is down with Madden
2. apparently, you want nothing new, and want nothing more than "good old Madden".

 

[Mrbob]

I'm not disagreeing with you about the on the field playcalling. I'm disagreeing with your assessment that it is a feature NFL fans want in a game. I'd like something like that...in Blitz.

 

[imastalker co.]

I'm disagreeing with your assessment that it is a feature NFL fans want in a game.

yeah, you're totally right. NFL fans would not want the ability to make their own plays on the fly. especially not when playing online. who wants more customizing in their games anyways? come to think of it, im suprised create a team, franchise, and player ever got into a football game.

you gotta be kidding me. i'd love to hear your reasoning behind this, unless it has to do with that bunk ass arguement again about "it not being authentic."

 

[MetaKnight]

 

[Mrbob]

yeah, you're totally right. NFL fans would not want the ability to make their own plays on the fly. especially not when playing online. who wants more customizing in their games anyways? come to think of it, im suprised create a team, franchise, and player ever got into a football game.

you gotta be kidding me. i'd love to hear your reasoning behind this, unless it has to do with that bunk ass arguement again about "it not being authentic."

First of all, I can't believe you are even equating create a team, create a franchise, and create a player with creating a play on the fly. Totally seperate issues. Secondly, your comments alone prove you really don't know anything about NFL football. This isn't sandlot ball. Quarterbacks don't grab there wide receivers, running back, center, guards, and tackles and draw out the plays on the palm of their hand. They are preset plays because you only have 40 seconds to get a play in. You gotta get the play, get to the line of scrimmage, check out the defense and call any audiables if necessary.

Actually, you know what, have your create a play on the fly. Between drawing out where the wide receivers are going to go on a passing play, which formation your center, guards and tackles are going to block, whether your qb is going to drop back, roll to the left, roll to the right,call play action, shotgun and where the running back will go whether it is blocking, pulling off a block for a screen pass, and running a flat it'll easily take you longer than 40 seconds to draw this all out and get it planned. And for the running game you gotta know where the guards are going to pull, trap, counter pull, push forward, where the tight end blocks, whether the running back is running a sweep, counter, draw, slam, etc you won't have much time to run off the play. Don't forget, once you call a play, you need about 6-10 seconds (even if you hurry) to get your team to the line of scrimmage to get ready to hike the ball. Then you need time to check out potential audiables against a given defense. If we are playing online you'll constantly be moving back because of delay of game penalties and that's fine. It'll make you an easier opponent to beat.

 

[Amir0x]

It appears that we're on sides of the fence so far apart from each other that we're about to end up in circles. So I'll reply to this and see if that brings us a step further, but I'm going to go ahead and doubt that

cut the teams that worked on these games some slack man. it's not like they had much time to develop games. not to mention that it was their first time developing on such a radically designed system.

Hey, there's no doubt shorter development time hindered some level of creativity. But I don't give them some slack for developing on this system. This technology itself is nothing new. It has been done before in many ways, although not necessarily with two screens at once. Touch screen games have been done by a trillion and one other, more shitty companies.

well, first off. due to such short development time, EA wasn't able to implement features such as on the fly play making, and well, anything else really that people actually cared about.

Alrighty. That's cool.

what i do find well, a bit silly is how you feel that on-the-fly play making would add nothing more than an added layer of convenience. im gonna call this go ahead and call this a guarenteed hunch, but having the ability to draw your players routes before each play, or just during an audible, will add a whole new level of depth, and stratedgy, that no football game out there has ever offered. especially when you take into consideration that the next Madden DS will absolutely have online play. for reference, i heard from guys at EA that they got all the online DS protocols / kits around 8-28-04. i'd imagine all other big 3rd party developers also got them around the same time.

Well, you take that guaranteed hunch. And then I'll take my guaranteed hunch that a great Madden DS will be no better than a great Madden PSP. Now we both have guaranteed hunches! Someone must be wrong

for someone that has this whole "i don't knock it til i've tried it" mantra going on, i find it a bit insane that you could come up with such a surmise.

I'm not knocking it. I'm simply saying that this "layer" will not fundamentally improve the game where it counts. You think it'll add a layer of strategy, I'll think it'll add a layer of convenience. And, although you dismiss it, Mrbob is partially right - it's not authentic. There are two types of football games, ones that try to have a "sim" like nature and ones that try to have an "arcade" like nature. I'd be very open minded for the arcade ones, but again... the touch screen aspect such as fly-by play would not improve the game where it counts - fun factor. Or maybe it would for certain people, and it wouldn't for others. Down to preference again. Some will like superior visuals, other fly-by plays. The teeter toter of preferential viewpoints.

And if Madden DS is goin' online, don't you think Madden PSP is goin' online? I think the pretty obvious answer is most definitely yes. But then it's going to be down to what you prefer, and I think the honest answer is going to come down to the gameplay. And I don't believe fly-by plays will be changing the gameplay as fundamentally as you would like it to.

But supposing it did, that doesn't mean it'll make it fundamentally more fun. Which is the key point. For instance, using the D-Pad to control the football player might feel like a hinderance in comparrison to the PSP analog nub, in which case that'll give +1 to PSP and -1 to DS. It's all about counter weights and balances, and fun factor is what it comes down to.

I'll guess we'll see how things shape up in the coming months.

i'll just go ahead and use on the fly play making for football games as my example again. it's going to be huge. ask any random dude that's really into football games...and i mean any random dude, what he'd think about having the ability to do to create his own plays on the fly, and chances are, he's gonna reply with "man, that would be thebomb.com"

I don't know, every single football fan I know is quite content with the current way of doing things. And, might I add, I don't think they'd go back to playing N64 level Madden just because it gives you fly-by play by plays. But that's besides the point. What would he say if given the option? I'm quite sure there will be those that strive for authenticity and those that want that extra layer. And then it'll come down to the fun factor, and once again there's the weights and balances issue. We'll see.

thebomb.com. I like that. *writes it in his notebook*

my shitty un-creative example of on the fly play making, does manage to throw quite a few clouds up into the mix. it definitely gives the DS an edge over the PSP (or any system for that matter) in that genre.

Well, now this is a bit presumptious of you. But we'll see. I'm going to once again put my hat in the "Great DS games will be just as great as great PSP games."

even then, i could really give a shit about Madden. it's gonna be awesome when good football games hit the. when they cut out that whole blimp view on one screen BS, and they start busting out football games where the view spans across both screen, then yeah you won't be able to look at the field from 2 different perspectives, but you'll still have a great broad view of the field. that brings me to another example...

games that span across 2 screens. if that one boss from Sawaru is any indication, the Shmups on the DS are gonna be god like, and a shit load better than PSP ones. for one simple reason, TATE Mode. so look at that, yet another genre that the DS will definitely have an edge over the PSP in.

The PSP has widescreen. Do you realize how unbelievably fantastic that layout is for certain Shmups? I think you do. And not only that, the startling clarity the screen offers you taps the visceral experience up quite a notch. Again, weights and balances - what do you prefer? I know what I prefer. I prefer DS. But, not everyone will, and I'm quite sure that DS experiences are not - once again - fundamentally more fun than PSP experiences. To wit: Nearly every single person who has purchased a PSP at GAF has put aside their DS. They literally said it's useless to them next to the PSP. What does that tell you?

Now that's so anecdotal I probably shouldn't have went there, but it's late and I'm being lazy. You'll forgive me, I'm sure

might i also add, that touch controls in a shmup are pretty damn sweet. if balanced right, they can be just as challenging. without a doubt.

Well, I have not played a schmup on DS so I don't know how sweet it will be. But your description certainly makes me excited to try one out.

my point wasn't so much reffering to being able to chat while playing games, but the fact that the system can totally multitask. that's gonna open up yet, another galaxy as far as game development goes.
[/Qute]

We'll see what happens. I'd rather not state for the millionth time why I feel you're wrong here

what's unforunate is that you're surmising what developers, and the DS are capable of doing based on a shitty rushed launch.

Not at all. I just know that great DS experiences will be no more fun than great PSP experiences. Just because you do something different does not mean that the difference will provide an overall experiences leaps and bounds over the competition. The same applies for PSP. Just because it has better visuals does not mean the DS has a leg down.

if it hasn't been made clear enough already, the DS had a very weak launch in the US that mainly consisted of nothing but rushed games. obviously nothing is taking advantage of the system. totally doesn't seem like you took development time into consideration.

It has been made clear. But how come the PSP, with similarly short development time, already has four or so games that feel so complete by comparrison that it's absurd (Mario 64 DS aside)? Metal Gear Ac!d, Everybody's Golf, Ridge Racers and Lumines all seem to represent a level of completion that is worlds apart from normal launch titles.

What am I getting at?

I can't cut some slack to certain developers when other developers are able to release perfectly competent products in the same time frame. Big or small, I hold my titles up to a higher standard.

i totally hate sound like the typical Nintendo fanboy when saying this, but sigh... wait til E3. we've yet to see what Capcom, Konami, Square, and for the most part, Namco are up to. and heck, in just about 2 weeks or so (give a take a few days), we'll be seeing Castlevnia and Boktai. maybe some more stuff.

Well, I'll certainly be interested in these things beause I like the DS more than I like PSP. But again, to play Devil's Advocate - wait til E3 for PSP. We've yet to really see what Square is up to PSP, or what Konami is capable of doing with added development time, or what Capcom will do when it's not just porting old fighting games. We know, for example, that Capcom is bringing Devil May Cry and Viewtiful Joe to PSP and that they recently had a survey asking gamers what they next wanted to see on PSP.

And if PSP is [more] successful than the competition, then it doesn't matter the here and now - the developers will flock to that in the end and will bring its most brilliant products to the market leader. The same applies if the DS is more successful.

with the DS, Nintendo really did give developers a blank canvas and said "let's see what you got, cause we're also just as clue less as to what to do with this thing."

so in conclusion... DS = Paradigm Shift.

No, I do not agree that DS is a Paradigm Shift. That's hyperbole of the highest order.

oh oh oh, and you missed out on a great conversation a few hours ago. was super turbo drunk and everything.

I was totally turbo drunk too. Maybe next time

 

[imastalker co.]

First of all, I can't believe you are even equating create a team, create a franchise, and create a player with creating a play on the fly.

why's that? all it does is let the player have even more control over their team.

This isn't sandlot ball.

yet, another reason why i would rather create my own plays, over having to use another teams.

Actually, you know what, have your create a play on the fly. Between drawing out where the wide receivers are going to go on a passing play, which formation your center, guards and tackles are going to block, whether your qb is going to drop back, roll to the left, roll to the right,call play action, shotgun and where the running back will go whether it is blocking, pulling off a block for a screen pass, and running a flat it'll easily take you longer than 40 seconds to draw this all out and get it planned. And for the running game you gotta know where the guards are going to pull, where the tight end blocks, whether the running back is running a sweep, counter, draw, slam, etc you won't have much time to run off the play. If we are playing online you'll constantly be moving back because of delay of game penalties and that's fine. It'll make you an easier opponent to beat.

ok captain authentic. you do realize that one of videogames biggest shticks, is that they don't have to follow the same rules that we have in real life.

you ever hear of something called gameplay balance? well i'll tell you what, it's something that the developer does know something about. their main priority is fun, not being so anal that is makes the game less fun. what makes you think that they won't allow you to draw your plays in suspended time, so that you don't have your experienced tarnished because the game is just too "authentic" for its own good.

listen dude, there's a reason why no one is arguing against on the fly play making. mainly because it's something that would be very cinchy to do, yet, would add a whole other level of depth to your game.

Amir0x, you're up next in a bit.

 

[Mrbob]

you do realize that one of videogames biggest shticks, is that they don't have to follow the same rules that we have in real life.

Except Madden strives for authenticity.

why's that? all it does is let the player have even more control over their team.



you ever hear of something called gameplay balance? well i'll tell you what, it's something that the developer does know something about. their main priority is fun, not being so anal that is makes the game less fun. what makes you think that they won't allow you to draw your plays in suspended time, so that you don't have your experienced tarnished because the game is just too "authentic" for its own good.

So you are suggesting that people playing you online should wait for you to finish drawing out your plays? This is your idea of fun? Just stop now. I addressed the situation in my previous post of why it wouldn't work case closed and until you address that you really shouldn't talk anymore on the issue.

listen dude, there's a reason why no one is arguing against on the fly play making. mainly because it's something that would be very cinchy to do, yet, would add a whole other level of depth to your game.

No, it doesn't. Except for wasting the other persons time if you truly believe in what you are suggesting. Create your plays ahead of time to get ready to use in a game.

 

[Che]

Miyamoto: "We really need to talk before we come to these things."

Iwata: "What? Why?"

Miyamoto: "We're wearing the same fucking clothes, man."

Iwata: "..."

Miyamoto: "...."

Iwata: "....my belt is black."

:lol:lol:lol Classic!

 

[imastalker co.]

ok this is just going no where fast Ami0rx. we're talking 2 different things here. you're talking fun factor, and im talking new experiences.

obviously as far as fun factor goes, exclusive features don't come into play. fun is fun, regardless of how you're doing it.

all im saying is, as far as gameplay goes, the DS without a doubt has an edge over the PSP (and once again, any other system) in a sense that well, it will offer completely new experiences. graphics aside, the DS can do anything that the PSP can do as far as gameplay is concerned. on the other hand, the PSP can't do everything that the DS can. the PSP doesn't offer anything new as far as gameplay goes, and that's the point. im talking new experiences, not fun factor.

It has been made clear. But how come the PSP, with similarly short development time, already has four or so games that feel so complete by comparrison that it's absurd (Mario 64 DS aside)? Metal Gear Ac!d, Everybody's Golf, Ridge Racers and Lumines all seem to represent a level of completion that is worlds apart from normal launch titles.

c'mon dude, back the fuck up. let's compare teams (well, the ones that have any talent) working on the systems launch line ups, and what the line ups consisted of as far as good games go.

PSP:
Namco, Konami, Q Entertainment, and a Dark Stalkers port.

DS:
United Gaming Artist, and a remake if you will, of Mario 64.

yes, i think it's quite clear as to why the the PSP has a much better launch line up. if Namco, Konami, Capcom, and Q Entertainment were at the DS launch, we'd all be singing quite a different tune. if we're talking strictly japanese line ups here, well, i'd say in comes down to preference, in which case, i'd take Lumines and Ridge Racers over what the DS currently offers.


in conclusion....

Paradigm Shift
Function: noun
Definition: a significant change in thinking that results in a completely changed view or outlook, a radical replacement of a way of thinking or organizing; old ways replaced by new ways.

by definition, the DS is a paradigm shift, and anyone that argues other wise simply has concrete in their head.

 

[Izzy]

ok this is just going no where fast Ami0rx. we're talking 2 different things here. you're talking fun factor, and im talking new experiences.

obviously as far as fun factor goes, exclusive features don't come into play. fun is fun, regardless of how you're doing it.

all im saying is, as far as gameplay goes, the DS without a doubt has an edge over the PSP (and once again, any other system) in a sense that well, it will offer completely new experiences. graphics aside, the DS can do anything that the PSP can do as far as gameplay is concerned. on the other hand, the PSP can't do everything that the DS can.

That's not true - analog?

 

[Amir0x]

ok this is just going no where fast Ami0rx. we're talking 2 different things here. you're talking fun factor, and im talking new experiences.

obviously as far as fun factor goes, exclusive features don't come into play. fun is fun, regardless of how you're doing it.

Yup. Fun factor is what we play games for. It is infinitely more important than anything else.

all im saying is, as far as gameplay goes, the DS without a doubt has an edge over the PSP (and once again, any other system) in a sense that well, it will offer completely new experiences. graphics aside, the DS can do anything that the PSP can do as far as gameplay is concerned. on the other hand, the PSP can't do everything that the DS can. the PSP doesn't offer anything new as far as gameplay goes, and that's the point. im talking new experiences, not fun factor.

gameplay = integral to experience = fun factor

If DS has a leg up on gameplay, which it doesn't, then it would also have a leg up in fan factor, which it also doesn't.

So yes, this is circles.

c'mon dude, back the fuck up. let's compare teams (well, the ones that have any talent) working on the systems launch line ups, and what the line ups consisted of as far as good games go.

PSP:
[SCEJ], Namco, Konami, Q Entertainment, and a Dark Stalkers port.

DS:
United Gaming Artist, and a remake if you will, of Mario 64.

yes, i think it's quite clear as to why the the PSP has a much better launch line up. if Namco, Konami, Capcom, and Q Entertainment were at the DS launch, we'd all be singing quite a different tune. if we're talking strictly japanese line ups here, well, i'd say in comes down to preference, in which case, i'd take Lumines and Ridge Racers over what the DS currently offers.

You certainly do seem a bit defensive here. Dare I say you have something invested in defending a shoddy launch?

I don't defend shoddy launches. I don't care what companies is making what. Point is, PSP launch represents a level of completion that is so far and away ahead of its competition that it's actually a joke in terms of comparrison. If you take the Japanese launch into consideration it definitely looks like it fares better, but even then... I just don't know.

Shit, I don't even know if the PSP launch is going to be any good. I'm just speaking based on what we know. But I do know the DS launch, and it is not exactly a herald of either new things to come, fleshed out complete games, or anything else.

And before you start, no I am not judging the future of what DS will offer from the launch offerings. Don't get it twisted. I think it's very clear once we start getting things like Yoshi Touch and Go, Advance Wars DS, etc... it'll be an even playing field in terms of completion.

in conclusion....

Paradigm Shift
Function: noun
Definition: a significant change in thinking that results in a completely changed view or outlook, a radical replacement of a way of thinking or organizing; old ways replaced by new ways.

by definition, the DS is a paradigm shift, and anyone that argues other wise simply has concrete in their head.

Then I have concrete in my head because the DS is not replacing old ways; it's simply offering an alternative to the old ways. We're talking semantics but it's the truth. Touch screen will not ever be a standard. And a Paradigm Shift represents, imho, a much larger overall change - not a small change represented by a single object that one company is offering in hopes it catches on.

But, preference.

Much love,

Amir0x

 

[RoH]

That's not true - analog?

Any thing you can do with the PSP analog nub you can do with the touch screen.

 

[imastalker co.]

That's not true - analog?

just depends on the interface. i had a much easier time playing, and controling Mario with the touch screen. aside from the side ways flip, i never had a problem controlling Mario once. the touch screen definitely offers analog controls.

although it's definitely gonna be a problem with certain genres. so yeah, i guess the PSP does have that over the DS in some cases, even though that nub isn't anything special, and in a sense, is very similar to the click stick on the NGPC.

 

[Izzy]

Any thing you can do with the PSP analog nub you can do with the touch screen.

Like steering in Ridge Racers?

 

[RoH]

Like steering in Ridge Racers?

Yes

 

[imastalker co.]

Like steering in Ridge Racers?

although it's definitely gonna be a problem with certain genres. so yeah, i guess the PSP does have that over the DS in some cases, even though that nub isn't anything special, and in a sense, is very similar to the click stick on the NGPC.

got that?

 

[MassiveAttack]

Yes

I do hope you're joking...

 

[imastalker co.]

You certainly do seem a bit defensive here. Dare I say you have something invested in defending a shoddy launch?

what gave you that impression? clearly it wasn't me saying that the DS had a shitty launch line up.

it's Namco, Konami, Capcom, and Q Entertainment up against UGA and a Mario 64 remake, i mean really, go figure.

 

[RoH]

Yep I am, sliding my thumb on a disk (Nub) or sliding my thumb on a pad are just about the same action to me. :lol

 

[Amir0x]

what gave you that impression? clearly it wasn't me saying that the DS had a shitty launch line up.

it's Namco, Konami, Capcom, and Q Entertainment up against UGA and a Mario 64 remake, i mean really, go figure.

So...yea. You're defending it because the "better" developers weren't around. Gotcha.

Also...I was trying to get this right... but did I read you think the touch screen control for Mario was better than the analog N64 control for Mario? Or that you were better at the touch screen control?

Because then, my friend, that's as close to insanity as it gets

 

[Odnetnin]

So...yea. You're defending it because the "better" developers weren't around. Gotcha.

Also...I was trying to get this right... but did I read you think the touch screen control for Mario was better than the analog N64 control for Mario? Or that you were better at the touch screen control?

Because then, my friend, that's as close to insanity as it gets

he didn't say that. (it was vs DS's digital pad)

 

[imastalker co.]

Also...I was trying to get this right... but did I read you think the touch screen control for Mario was better than the analog N64 control for Mario? Or that you were better at the touch screen control?

obviously it's not better. read what i said man, i just said that aside from the side ways flip, i had no problems what so ever controlling the characters in the game with the touch screen, and prefer to play it with the touch screen over the D-Pad.

 

[Amir0x]

he didn't say that. (it was vs DS's digital pad)

just depends on the interface. i had a much easier time playing, and controling Mario with the touch screen. aside from the side ways flip, i never had a problem controlling Mario once. the touch screen definitely offers analog controls.

I don't know. Izzy said PSP - analog stick and then Johnny Nighttrain said he had an easier time controlling Mario with the touch screen.

So, it at least didn't appear that this is what he meant. Although I can see how one could think that, although I personally had a much easier time with D-Pad than touch screen control as well.

obviously it's not better. read what i said man, i just said that aside from the side ways flip, i had no problems what so ever controlling the characters in the game.

Well that's good, and I'm happy for that. But my own personal experience aside, I don't think I've read a single review that mentioned no problems controlling Mario with touch screen. In fact, it seems pretty fair to see that most people did have problems with it - at the very least, mastering it was a bitch. It was a bitch for me too. Now I have no problems with it, but overcoming the hurdle was ridiculous imho.

But, it's all anecdotal. So I bow out.

 

[imastalker co.]

i found that using the Dual Hand mode, with a stylus is by far the best way to go.

 

[bummyhead]

you know what i think? I think one review (IGN) bitched about the control, and every other fucking review decided to bitch about the control too. Because frankly, anyone who hasn't, or doesn't read game reviews that I have let play mario on my DS has either not even commented on the control, or if they did comment, it was to the tune of "this is pretty cool how you can use the screen like that!".

And as for myself, I personally did find the control a little sloppy for the first 10 stars or so, and then I very quickly got used to it. I've been using the thumbstrap all the way through. Frankly I got comfortable suing the touch screen much faster than i got used to the analog stick back in the day. I'm also surprised that no one remeber back to 1996 when analog was new and tons of people complained about how "hard" it was.

On a side not, I tried to play Halo 2 the other day after playing my Hunters demo, and I found it so sloppy and akward to control. When I played the first Halo a year ago I remeber being a master at it. Just goes to show you that ANY control scheme takes practice.