brotkasten
Member
I didn't know the Allies are (back) on Metacritic. That's pretty great!
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Easy Allies |EZOT2| Love & Respect
- Thread starter Auctopus
- Start date
- Status
Frame rate is arguably one of the more important things in a game. It determines how smooth and responsive a game is. In certain cases a bad frame rate makes a game unplayable, and in all cases a higher frame rate is objectively better than a lower one. It's one thing to say you don't care about frame rates as much as someone else but to say it is one of the least important things in games is more than a little silly.
After seeing the examples in the review it's clear that the frame rate can get pretty bad and is seems just bad enough to make it impossible to ignore. Glad Damiani was willing to speak out on it since that is likely the only thing holding the game back from a 5/5 score.
A near perfect score is in the low part of the spectrum?
ThanksVision
Member
in this case, yeah. game is reviewing unexpectedly well, even for a zelda game
Amazingly, yeah. It's at 97 on Open critic.
Its relevance doesn't really compare to... you know, the actual video game. If the game is great, frame rate doesn't matter - Dark Souls, Majora's Mask, SotC had terrible frame rate and those are among the greatest games ever made. Meanwhile if the actual video game is not great then a great frame rate certainly isn't going to save it.
DubyaLucha
Neo Member
I was wondering this, too. It was interesting to not hear any conversation about story. I'm not knocking the review or anything, but that part did stand out to me, as well.
We need a new EZA emote that consists of four and a half Triforces tightly packed together. In addition, I demand that all physically released Switch games moving forward have a taste score attached in their reviews. It is of utmost importance to know if some cartridges are more bitter or tastier than the others!
Yeah, the Switch shirt being part of the DLC and not being in the main game is a huge minus. Damiani was being lenient by only taking away half a star for it.
Same, i hate that shit.
It has to be considered in the whole of the experience, but i am VERY skeptical i'll like it.
Sure it is relevant. A terrible frame rate would make an actual video game unplayable. In Dark Souls the fame rate is usually stable, but in some areas it dips and the game is rightfully criticized for it when that happens. No one says nice things about the frame rate in blight town. Your other examples came from a different era, especially Majora's Mask, and it was easier to look past those flaws back then.
No one is saying that a game with frame rate issues is always bad or that a game which gets a 95 instead of a 100 can't be one of the greats. It's hard to justify giving a game a perfect score when there are serious frame rate issues that make the game "virtually unplayable" in some cases (Damiani's words). Especially today when gaming hardware is strong enough. You could argue that the EZA's 5 star system isn't exactly the same as grading a game out of 100. The 100 point scale is a percent whereas a 5 point scale is more descriptive and standardized (very bad, bad, neutral, good, very good). So giving it a 5/5 wouldn't be saying that it's a "perfect game" but now that's just getting into debates about numbers and semantics that I don't care enough about despite this post making it seem otherwise. All I'm trying to say is that it's not insane to take away points due to a bad framerate. I'd argue that it's actually an important thing to hold a game acountable for.
Doubt they want to spoil anything.
CyanideFuse
Member
Great review Damiani and fair play at bringing up the frame rate issues that are currently to be found with the game.
Great Twitch stream name too...
Any one would think the
star had been given to the game rather than deducted from 5.
Edit:
I agree about the relevancy. Seeing as a game is interactive then frame rate / pacing issues do have a part to play in how well the game plays. Frame drops leading to latency issues, especially during combat, has a detrimental impact upon the enjoyment I personally can have with a game regardless of how good it is. That doesn't say it makes the game bad but it lessens the enjoyment to a degree.
Great Twitch stream name too...
Any one would think the
half
Edit:
I agree about the relevancy. Seeing as a game is interactive then frame rate / pacing issues do have a part to play in how well the game plays. Frame drops leading to latency issues, especially during combat, has a detrimental impact upon the enjoyment I personally can have with a game regardless of how good it is. That doesn't say it makes the game bad but it lessens the enjoyment to a degree.
Thanks guys.
No set plans for 2016, but I want to. Once I'm all caught up for this year, if I have time and get to the weekly release schedule, I may be (at my own pace, no set release schedule) going back and doing the 2016 stuff on the side as well, so basically no week gets left out. That's the intention anyways. It is in part the reason why I didn't just label this Best Of Easy Allies Vol. 1.
Thanks for checking out the video, and thanks for the suggestions.
As for why I did what I did, having made quite a few compilations on this channel and the last one, I've seen that jokes need time to breathe, if it's just setup, punchline, setup, puncline, setup, punchline, the impact of each joke start to lessen and in the end (especially if folks on screen are laughing) it would become a "best EZA laughs compilation" rather than "best moments". And while that would still be attractive to some people, a lot of others lose attention just like that.
This is the reason I have a bit of space in between, but as for editing, if you notice, the kyle guitar segments were cutting from one moment to the next, if I had left it unedited there would be a 3 minute clip at one point, and then a 4 minute clip at another, but I cut the whole thing down to 90 seconds so it's not like I'm just leaving things unedited. And of course, I am still learning which cuts are better and adjusting just how much breathing room I need to leave.
As for longer duration, based on videos on a previous channel and this one, and looking at analytics I've seen that people generally don't tend to stick around for longer videos. I want videos to be around 10 minutes as that seems like the sweet spot, but depending on the week, it could be as short as 6 minutes or as long as 20 minutes if there are a lot of moments that I absolutely want to include (and I already see a couple of weeks that may end up belonging to this). It's all about keeping attention.
It would make things much more easier for me if it was a longer duration, because I wouldn't have to choose which of the moments (that I've already narrowed down) to keep. Just to give an idea, week 1 had 36 hours of footage. Out of that, I narrowed it down to (unedited clips) of 40 minutes worth of footage that contained the best moments. Now if I had just left all of those and edited them all straight up, the video length would be around 25-30 minutes or so.
And yeah, I'm trying to avoid stuff that requires knowledge of lore, so a lot of things are being left out. There will be some moments that require some knowledge to fully enjoy, but my intention is for the video to be enjoyable for everyone with or without knowledge. As a result I'm having to cut some of my favorite moments of the week, because there's no quick way of delivering that prior knowledge to folks without messing with the pace of the video.
Just a personal anecdote, it was getting linked to one such moment from this thread, that I actually got into Tabletop Escapades. Before that, I never gave tabletop adventures or escapades a chance because on paper and by the description it didn't appeal to me, even had thoughts like "wow, who would watch stuff like that?"
But yeah, this is a big balancing act of making it a good watch for folks familiar and not familiar with Easy Allies.
But I'm performing the same basic actions with the controller today as I was in the 90s. I don't see why frame rate should be considered any differently. I can platinum Dark Souls without a problem, and relative to most games that's considered quite difficult. At no point does frame rate hinder my ability to do so. It would be way more important if the gameplay didn't react in expected ways and inhibited my ability to play it. For example in Uncharted clinging to walls is sometimes cumbersome and causes you to make the wrong action - an issue which has no connection to frame rate. And even with that much more important issue, that only causes me to drop Uncharted's "score" a couple points.
For the record I have no issue with a review dinging a game for frame rate. I like when reviews reflect the personality of the reviewer, so if frame rate is a big deal to the reviewer by all means drop the score. I'm merely expressing my own perspective on its importance.
The entire game stops man, this isn't an issue of slightly less crisp animation, or whatever this is *no* animation for a half a second to a second, and then total frame reset. Just fyi.
I just don't want you to go into this thinking it's something only overly sensitive people are seeing.
Have you posted this at their forums? http://forums.easyallies.com I looked for it and didn't see it but perhaps I missed it.
If you havnt seen the video then you dont know what it looks like. Its not a frame rate 'drop', the game literally freezes for a small period of time and then snaps back into motion again.
Oh boy can't wait for the next podcast
Which surprised me: even though Nintendo never showed Link speaking, I just assumed he would, considering the game is full voiced. Interesting decision.
I think the bigger thing being glossed over is that Damiani felt most of the main dungeons don't seem to be up to par with the rest of the game, and if anyone knows Zelda dungeons, it's Damiani. Sounds a little Witcher 3ish -- forget the main quest, give me those sweet, sweet sidequests.
tamaster92
Member
oh hey they answered my question about the twitch selling game stuff awesome!
awesome!Well, he reviewed it too low AND he reviewed it too high.
SMH Damiani, you messed up everything. It's twice as bad as 7.8... It's a 15.6!
I noticed that, ridiculous.
No, I hadn't. Just finished making one now.
Complaining about absolutely great scores like this is always silly to me, but that's review threads for you. Comparing it to other Easy Allies scores makes no sense either when it's different reviewers, but I don't need to tell any of you guys that. I'm sure there are Allies who would've scored Zelda the full 5 stars, but what does it even matter?
The review was great. I especially appreciated seeing the framerate stutters in action, they're quite severe for sure. I hope Nintendo can patch em though I'm not getting my hopes up.
The review was great. I especially appreciated seeing the framerate stutters in action, they're quite severe for sure. I hope Nintendo can patch em though I'm not getting my hopes up.
I noticed the cut in Kyle's segment and it was good.
As for the longer duration, I meant duration covered, as in the same video length but with two weeks covered instead of one
But that's just my opinion.
Pretty sure it's a deliberate creative choice.
Oh dude, that's even harder. LOL. Especially with the upcoming week 2 video that I just started editing. Too much stuff I want to include. Just Bosman v Wozniak content alone was gold this week. But then there's the switch conference on top of that and Yakuza 0 stuff... This is gonna be a longer one for sure and hard to edit down.As for the longer duration, I meant duration covered, as in the same video length but with two weeks covered instead of one
ElephantShell
Banned
I'll be trudging my way through the Wii U version of Zelda come next week. All the reviews I've seen (including EZA's) make the technical issues seem waaaaay worth it, thankfully.
AcademicSaucer
Member
Just caught the Damiani stream and man, the
are brutal
Lynels
Elfforkusu
Member
Frame rate is definitely important. Here's hoping they fix it with a patch.
Brian_FETO
Banned
Jones is bringing the fire in L&R
You can be lenient with frame rate. The frame rate example shown here is crazy. The game legit stops for 0.5 seconds, and that's something that hasn't happened with games with bad frame rates that I have enjoyed like SotC and OoT. It's good that Damiani brought it up because it's different in this case.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
In regards to the podcast and Twitch sales cut.
I want EZA to have no business participating in it. Brad and Damiani are 100% correct. You review games, it's completely off the table.
I think it'll be abused even for normal streamers that don't review games. I don't question their integrity but it muddies the waters and can greatly backfire on growth and positive PR. This could blow up real quick.
They don't do direct donations on stream but Brandon wants to entertain this? Hell no. I'd take give them money directly than this game sale cut twitch thing.
I want EZA to have no business participating in it. Brad and Damiani are 100% correct. You review games, it's completely off the table.
I think it'll be abused even for normal streamers that don't review games. I don't question their integrity but it muddies the waters and can greatly backfire on growth and positive PR. This could blow up real quick.
They don't do direct donations on stream but Brandon wants to entertain this? Hell no. I'd take give them money directly than this game sale cut twitch thing.
The problem i have with Damianis score is really a problem with the 5 star system. Its either a 90 or 100 when converted. In this case he probably rounded down to a 9, but by doing that it makes his score the lowest currently on metacritic. Would be interesting to hear what he would have given it on a 10 point scale.
That's a fault of the Metacritic system though trying to fit square pegs into round holes. Scores shouldn't be compared and the system works for what EZA does. It shouldn't be boiled down simply to a score.
sleepwalkcapsules
Member
You shouldn't convert it. It's a 4.5 Star. It's not a 90/100.
It has a different weight and meaning to it.
Metacritic has to make it fit, EZA doesn't.
Napalm_Frank
Member
Because 90/100 is trash.
Merchandise
Member
My thing is that Damiani docked it for technical issues but Blood gave TLG a 5/5. I know reviews are going to be subjective depending on the person, but I feel like there should be some kind of standardization for things like that. TLG controls like trash garbage and the frame rate is atrocious.
*On the topic of 5 stars or scores out of 10, I'm indifferent. Out of 10 gives you more legroom to give an "accurate" score, but the benefit of 5 stars is that a 3/5 game actually fits its rating as "good/fine," while a 6/10 is basically terrible.
*On the topic of 5 stars or scores out of 10, I'm indifferent. Out of 10 gives you more legroom to give an "accurate" score, but the benefit of 5 stars is that a 3/5 game actually fits its rating as "good/fine," while a 6/10 is basically terrible.
Excellent work on the review Damiani, Brandon too! Technical problems were taken into consideration like they should. But still a great score, like a great game should get. I wish Huber will take a note from Damiani on this, referring to the For Honor review. Even if the technical problems wouldn't lower the score, it's good form to inform the viewer/reader about them.
Edit: Just to be clear, it's up to the reviewer how much if at all the technical problems affect the score. But when those are apparent in the game, it's important to bring up in the review.
Edit: Just to be clear, it's up to the reviewer how much if at all the technical problems affect the score. But when those are apparent in the game, it's important to bring up in the review.
I completely disagree. You are then forcing Bloodworth or Damiani to give a game a score they don't think it deserves. Standardizing a subjective opinion is not a good idea.
This sounds horrible. Reviews are not formulas. They are insight into how a person sees media. Standardization is bastardization, plain and simple.
TLG controls poorly and is an absolutely magical game that I will remember for the rest of my life. Some people will say "forget video games, I like frames" and give it a low score. They have every right to do so. Others will say "I can deal with a little jank, I love the majesty and emotional resonance that games can achieve" and will give it a high score.
LiquidSolid
Member
Uh, they already have a 10 point scale, what do you think the half-stars are? Seems like you're asking for a 20 or 100 point scale instead and that's a bad idea IMO. The wider you make the scale, the more pointless the actual score is.
Overlooking your TLG exaggerations, that's a terrible idea. Trying to standardise review scores has never worked in the past, why would it now? The entire point of them is that they're subjective.
Anywho, great review Damiani. Add all the other overwhelmingly positive reviews and I guess I'll have to check out BotW once I eventually get a Switch.
I haven't finished the EZA Podcast yet but I also wanted to say thumbs up to Damiani and Brad for their views on the Twitch sale link thing. I think DarkKnight's right that while I personally wouldn't question their integrity, it would be a bad look to anyone who wasn't as familiar with the group.
Oh and while I'm not a huge Tolkien buff, I think it's pretty sad that Shadow of War is all Monolith/Warner are bothering to do with that world. There's so much stuff they could do with it and eras they could explore (like the fall of Arnor, the Northern Kingdom) but nope, gotta forge a new ring of power lol. Ugh.
- Status