It's why I like it so much, they give a shit.
EDIT: As mentioned, other podcasts do as well. 8-4 Play had someone leave for Zelda spoilers too.
Also, MIXER HYPE. Hopefully won't have issues like they did on Tabletop previously.
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Easy Allies |EZOT2| Love & Respect
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It's why I like it so much, they give a shit.
EDIT: As mentioned, other podcasts do as well. 8-4 Play had someone leave for Zelda spoilers too.
Also, MIXER HYPE. Hopefully won't have issues like they did on Tabletop previously.
IdreamofHIME
Member
I'm not talking about one person. They're literally all tagging in and out depending on what's being discussed, the Nier conversation is Ben and Ian having a one on one interview about it. It's nuts.
Ian asks a question and Brad tells Ben not to answer it. Yikes.
Good. It's not a spoilercast.
Sometimes you wanna just listen to FrameTrap and then crazy news happenin' all around. The government orchestrated Q1 game release to distract the masses and even then it doesn't work... #conspiracy
It doesn't help that I#m still residing in Skorea for the next two month, huh.
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I can at least understand the sentiment of such interruptions disrupting the flow of a given podcast, something I find personally rather important - but when you look at it from a case-to-case perspective I can't really fault them. As Hasney ssaid, it's not a spoilercast.
It doesn't help that I#m still residing in Skorea for the next two month, huh.
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I can at least understand the sentiment of such interruptions disrupting the flow of a given podcast, something I find personally rather important - but when you look at it from a case-to-case perspective I can't really fault them. As Hasney ssaid, it's not a spoilercast.
Don Draper's Hat
Member
Today is Tuesday!
Frametrap came out yesterday.
Bank holidays have messed with my mind.
Today is Tuesday. Today is Tuesday.
Frametrap came out yesterday.
Bank holidays have messed with my mind.
Today is Tuesday. Today is Tuesday.
That's a bullcrap excuse and you know it. It's like saying no nintendo news should be discussed since its not Friend Code. Especially since Frametrap goes into spoilers territory on games.
It's one thing to try and protect the audience from spoilers but this seems like the allies themselves were protecting themselves from spoiler. For the former you can do staff like timestamps and flagging spoiler talk etc like they did in the past. This way they're basically blocking a discussion I'd love to hear because they haven't finished the game which is completely unprofessional. It's like coming to work and clocking out early (because this is work for the Allies, believe it or not). If it's so much of a problem then either finish the game before the podcast or don't turn up at all.
I think the more cool-headed version of this is every ally appearing should know what they are getting themselves into (video games that may be discussed) and if they don't want to discuss a certain game they shouldn't be on the podcast. The musical chairs thing they are doing is a bit irksome and some of the discussion felt pretty flat because of it.
Tuned in to Damiani's Nier:Automata stream for the first time, and man, crit pathing the game looks rough, the lack of upgrades makes things tedious as hell. Dunno where he stands on the story, especially since he's done so few side quests where some of them have subtle/major ties to the game's story and themes. Hopefully the spoilercast they do delves into some of that.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
Hm? A spoiler mode will happen. Damiani is almost done (and has been streaming the whole thing) and there's plenty still working their way through the game. Kyle is playing it. Ian is playing it. Like how much more do you want?
Oh, i completely missed that, my bad ahah
cm osi
Member
i can't wait for a Spoiler Mode for automata/persona 5. it will probably be months away, but i hope they happens
isn't kyle playing persona 5? i know he wants to play automata too but i'm not sure he's playing now.
anyway, not bothered by the people leaving the podcast because it's the "what did you play this week", usually only the interested part talks about it so if huber didn't want to hear about it it's okay, brad was the one talking about it.
and it show they care, they do social media blackout too because they care about the games. huber wouldn't have anything to say about persona 5 anyway because he didn't play it so what would it change?
isn't kyle playing persona 5? i know he wants to play automata too but i'm not sure he's playing now.
anyway, not bothered by the people leaving the podcast because it's the "what did you play this week", usually only the interested part talks about it so if huber didn't want to hear about it it's okay, brad was the one talking about it.
and it show they care, they do social media blackout too because they care about the games. huber wouldn't have anything to say about persona 5 anyway because he didn't play it so what would it change?
Holundrian
Unconfirmed Member
+1 on the Joni Mitchell topic. Didn't know her but I really enjoy the playfulness and calming nature of her music so far haven't listened long enough to appreciate all these other aspects Ben has brought up but I'm looking forward to discover them.
Not that I want the next Frame Trap to be less about games or anything just saying it's a nice surprise getting that out of nowhere recommendation that hits it right of for things one doesn't get really enough time on to explore. Music is like one of the things I got out of touch with in the sense I'm still listening to almost a decade old stuff or if it's recent it's likely video game music or something that blow up and goes viral.
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No strong feelings on the walking out thing. I can see both sides in this. In my mind it's a bit like people saving up their conversation budget.
Sure it detracts from this frame trap but when they cash out down the line for that conversation where everyone is on the same level story/progression wise it's probably going to be stronger. It's the trade off of not having people down the line talking about the impact of a certain experience lessened for them because they knew about X beforehand. But I can also certainly understand that whole "obligation" angle to some extent.
Dunno if I like the solution of forcing people to sit through or not show up at all though. I feel like there are a dozen other different ways of going about this that I personally prefer. Speaking for myself I'd be fine if they just don't bring a game up in certain cases and save the conversation, then there are no expectation and dunno "we want to make the conversation as good as possible" seems like a good reason. Has its own downsides for sure too but I don't know.
At least if people are that bothered about it. I'm ambivalent in the knowledge that it will lead to better discussion down the line and appreciative of them still trying to give a people a taste of things.
Edit: On a lighter note it's really hard to imagine a world now so many hottakes in where Kyle didn't happen to change the pronunciation of it from episode 1 of FT.
Not that I want the next Frame Trap to be less about games or anything just saying it's a nice surprise getting that out of nowhere recommendation that hits it right of for things one doesn't get really enough time on to explore. Music is like one of the things I got out of touch with in the sense I'm still listening to almost a decade old stuff or if it's recent it's likely video game music or something that blow up and goes viral.
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No strong feelings on the walking out thing. I can see both sides in this. In my mind it's a bit like people saving up their conversation budget.
Sure it detracts from this frame trap but when they cash out down the line for that conversation where everyone is on the same level story/progression wise it's probably going to be stronger. It's the trade off of not having people down the line talking about the impact of a certain experience lessened for them because they knew about X beforehand. But I can also certainly understand that whole "obligation" angle to some extent.
Dunno if I like the solution of forcing people to sit through or not show up at all though. I feel like there are a dozen other different ways of going about this that I personally prefer. Speaking for myself I'd be fine if they just don't bring a game up in certain cases and save the conversation, then there are no expectation and dunno "we want to make the conversation as good as possible" seems like a good reason. Has its own downsides for sure too but I don't know.
At least if people are that bothered about it. I'm ambivalent in the knowledge that it will lead to better discussion down the line and appreciative of them still trying to give a people a taste of things.
Edit: On a lighter note it's really hard to imagine a world now so many hottakes in where Kyle didn't happen to change the pronunciation of it from episode 1 of FT.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
Kyle has mentioned he started playing Nier. It was on the podcast right? He mentioned that he booted up the game and said the starting area "Oh baby this is a goood game"
And same on the leaving or not. To me its a non issue. Anyone that follows this crew knows where various people land on spoilers. Jones doesn't care. Huber/Kyle are super sensitive if its a game they're interested in. Huber/Kyle only do it with a subset of games, and if they haven't even played the game but plan on playing it, their contributions will not be much if anything to begin with. There's enough other people on the panel to cover those gaps. Just because "its their job" doesn't mean everyone gets to everything when they want to get to it. You know why? because they're doing "their job" and covering other games. Just like i have games I still need to get to but haven't, and have done a good job avoiding spoilers (i.e. Horizon and Yakuza 0)
If Ian is bothered by the sexualisation of Ann in the 1st Dungeon, he's not going to like the story introducing the 2nd Dungeon.
It was pretty crude, imo and fell flat for me. But I hope he sticks with it because I don't feel like a similar situation/feeling has arose in the 25 hours following.
It was pretty crude, imo and fell flat for me. But I hope he sticks with it because I don't feel like a similar situation/feeling has arose in the 25 hours following.
Yeah and these games will have a longer tail of discussion on Frame Trap due to this and maybe some spoiler casts on a couple of the bigger ones, which would be great because looking at the release calendar, there's no big story games up to the end of the summer other than Fire Emblem (which is a remake anyway, but I doubt many people played the original due to the lack of English.) and depending on how it turns out, possibly Prey.
For me personally, summer looks like one of the best summers in memory for releases with games like Wipeout, but I should be able to finally get into Horizon around then.
Contrast this with the Giantbombcast where they nonchalantly spoiled ending E like a week after the game released because nobody on the show cared enough to commit to playing Nier. Easy A are doing things just fine.
Yeah, I'm glad I didn't fully hear that conversation at the time, I just heard parts of it so I was left guessing as to what the bit I heard meant, but man that must have been a fucker.
Like, every 3D Zelda, it's worth noting =P
Link's Awakening had a good bit of it too. Every time I'd accidentally touch an ice block or a heavy pot without the right item equipped, would see an awful help message.
It is true though, in recent-ish years it has been pretty common for Nintendo to get over-explanatory. BotW is a return to form for Zelda in terms of show, don't tell. Even BotW has annoying tutorial and item info messages though (then again, both those things serve reasonable purposes, and don't feel awful until you're playing again. Regardless, would be nice to have disable option.)
I don't mind them skipping out on discussions especially because if they're still early on in a game what can they really add to the discussion beyond some initial impressions.
The currently playing segments of frame traps are often a conversation between Ben and that individual with occasional interjections from others so I didn't notice much difference when some people weren't physically present in this new one (still listening to it). I certainly didn't notice any detrimental effect to any particular conversation. It didn't feel flatter.
I take the point about giving people a heads up about what is being discussed on the podcasts so we can get those that are willing to get into spoiler discussions. However, it may not always be feasible. Maybe this group was the only one available for this recording session.
The currently playing segments of frame traps are often a conversation between Ben and that individual with occasional interjections from others so I didn't notice much difference when some people weren't physically present in this new one (still listening to it). I certainly didn't notice any detrimental effect to any particular conversation. It didn't feel flatter.
I take the point about giving people a heads up about what is being discussed on the podcasts so we can get those that are willing to get into spoiler discussions. However, it may not always be feasible. Maybe this group was the only one available for this recording session.
I've said before that it was ok for them be on media black out until it affects their content, and this is what I consider an example of it affecting their content. Since it's not a spoiler talk I think everyone should be there, in fact I think Ben casually spoiled a character arc that he would have been more careful about with Huber there (possibly, I don't know how important that detail actually is).
As for the Zelda thing, I believe they do tell you that both in the loading screen and from a random NPC. Given how the game world is I had NPCs ask to teach me to cook and make potions in the last area I uncovered.
There were still at least two points where the tutorials were thrown in my face in classic Nintendo/Zelda style: when I reached a combat shrine that they thought would be my first (it wasn't) and taught me how to dodge step by step, and during one of the main quests that I did 80 hours in where it taught me how to equip a shield!
I like how Huber is vouching for Night in the Woods, although I don't think it touches on sexuality more than in passing. It's very much an Ian game and he really should play it, although
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As for the Zelda thing, I believe they do tell you that both in the loading screen and from a random NPC. Given how the game world is I had NPCs ask to teach me to cook and make potions in the last area I uncovered.
There were still at least two points where the tutorials were thrown in my face in classic Nintendo/Zelda style: when I reached a combat shrine that they thought would be my first (it wasn't) and taught me how to dodge step by step, and during one of the main quests that I did 80 hours in where it taught me how to equip a shield!
I like how Huber is vouching for Night in the Woods, although I don't think it touches on sexuality more than in passing. It's very much an Ian game and he really should play it, although
Bea's story might hit too close to home
PepperedHam
Member
Honestly I would react the same way if a game I was currently playing or was looking to play next after getting through the three or four other 50 fucking hour games that this year is jamming down my throat was about to be spoiled in one or way or another. You can't hold people accountable for having not beaten a game yet that came out a month ago. We aren't talking about Final Fantasy 6, this isn't a case of "well the game is so old WHAT ARE YA WAITIN FOR HUUUUHHHH?!" this is a case of not enough time, too many damn great games, and great games with great plots. It isn't their job to be spoiled, it's their job to entertain us and while I understand that having members walk out of a room to avoid spoilers might be detrimental to someone's enjoyment, what would they have contributed to that discussion anyway having not played to that point? If two people who played the game were going to be the main contributors to that conversation then what's the difference if those not hoping to have moments of the game ruined on them step out for a second?
There are certainly things that some consider spoilers that are not spoilers, moments where the cover ears and shout LA LA LA comes to be an overreaction, and I am guilty of that too in this very thread when it comes to Persona, but making it sound like spoiler culture has gotten out of hand and shaming people for avoiding them is too much too. We live in a world where someone will go in the comments for a fucking shampoo or something and ruin The Force Awakens, or make a Twitter spam bot that LITERALLY TWEETS YOU PERSONA SPOILERS, or PM random people Fallout spoilers or whatever. People are going out of their way to troll the living hell out of people in this regard so it's become even more annoying for those trying to avoid them. If you aren't sensitive to spoilers, power to you. There are a lot to games other than story and knowing story elements don't exclusively ruin a game but they're still a part of a game, especially games like Persona or Nier that look to tell fantastic stories. It's the journey not the destination does not apply when the tension of not knowing and discovery is part of that journey.
Call it overreaction, call it what you want, but there is nothing wrong with dodging spoilers on air for something you care about.
There are certainly things that some consider spoilers that are not spoilers, moments where the cover ears and shout LA LA LA comes to be an overreaction, and I am guilty of that too in this very thread when it comes to Persona, but making it sound like spoiler culture has gotten out of hand and shaming people for avoiding them is too much too. We live in a world where someone will go in the comments for a fucking shampoo or something and ruin The Force Awakens, or make a Twitter spam bot that LITERALLY TWEETS YOU PERSONA SPOILERS, or PM random people Fallout spoilers or whatever. People are going out of their way to troll the living hell out of people in this regard so it's become even more annoying for those trying to avoid them. If you aren't sensitive to spoilers, power to you. There are a lot to games other than story and knowing story elements don't exclusively ruin a game but they're still a part of a game, especially games like Persona or Nier that look to tell fantastic stories. It's the journey not the destination does not apply when the tension of not knowing and discovery is part of that journey.
Call it overreaction, call it what you want, but there is nothing wrong with dodging spoilers on air for something you care about.
Ultimadrago
Member
Put me on both sides of the Huber walk, though if I were him I'd do the same thing. I feel bad that he got spoiled in the previous Podcast I was talking about and the panel (Brandon and Kyle) were extremely dismissive about it to poor taste. If that hadn't already happened, I'm not sure if Huber would have reacted the way he did. I sympathize even if that wasn't the case. If they want to adjust panels beforehand to consider those situations, that'd certainly be among the Allies to discuss.
Anyways, it didn't negatively affect the Frametrap for me, but I can read the lens where it comes off as unprofessional and/or jarring. Good discussion on Persona 5 from Ian, Brad and Ben! No doubt Ben has a Spoiler Talk for it in mind for the future.
Edit: Okay, I just got to the part where Brad got up too! Haha, alrighty then
Anyways, it didn't negatively affect the Frametrap for me, but I can read the lens where it comes off as unprofessional and/or jarring. Good discussion on Persona 5 from Ian, Brad and Ben! No doubt Ben has a Spoiler Talk for it in mind for the future.
Edit: Okay, I just got to the part where Brad got up too! Haha, alrighty then
TheCowboyPoet
Member
So I got a Switch yesterday and I'm restarting Zelda (already played it on Wii U). The first time I encountered rain and tried to climb it definitely brought up a box explaining that surfaces are slippery during rain making them harder to climb.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
If the person doesn't want to be spoiled I am not sure what they could meaningful add to the conversation in the first place, because obviously they haven't played enough of the game yet.
Maybe they've added it in for pleasantness? I really don't remember one or for lightning. Could be my memory though. 150 hours in one game will probably do that to a person.
Yeah, I don't get it. Do people just want them to sit there while grating their teeth?
cm osi
Member
i guess i missed that
Kyle never played a persona game before yet on the last frame trap he was able to engage well with Ben when Ben was talking about P5. Nonr of the allies played World of Final Fantasy when Damiani was talking about it on Frametrap and yet they all were able to engage in conversation with him about the game, teasing out those details. None of the FT panel played Forza Horizon 3 and yet they engaged well with Ben when Ben was talkjng about it. Huber didn't finish FFXV when they were talking about it and he was still able to participate in the conversation.
The funny thing is, not much actually gets discussed that would've spoiled Huber, tbh. Very minor thematic spoilers for the 1st dungeon then Brad refrains from even speaking about the story because Ian isnt that far.
There is hypersensitivity to the extent of not wanting to know anything, and there is not wanting the game to be spoiled for you. If you are not warning the audience of spoilers you shouldn't be spoiling anything anyway, especially for recent games.
I think it might be one of those GTA style passive notifications in the corner.
And yes that's exactly what we want, while we stroke our fluffy cats and practice our cartoon villains laugh.
Right, but if they want to take part in the conversation but are forced to for whatever reason, what are they going to contribute? I'm not sure what you could do without some kind of personality change.
Uno Venova
Banned
But it sounds like the people doing the spoiler walk doesn't actually want to engage in conversation about that game at the moment, so this wouldn't happen.
If someone wants to walk out of a discussion of a game they haven't dived into yet & don't want to hear spoilers, that's fine. I don't really get why this is such a big deal.
With Huber especially, because we know how particular he is with spoilers (e.g. the podcast just a couple of weeks ago).
I'd rather they walk for a bit then revisit game in question on a future FT or maybe something like a Spoiler Mode, than for them to sit there, get spoiled & wish they could play X game so they can contribute and be a part of the conversation.
With Huber especially, because we know how particular he is with spoilers (e.g. the podcast just a couple of weeks ago).
I'd rather they walk for a bit then revisit game in question on a future FT or maybe something like a Spoiler Mode, than for them to sit there, get spoiled & wish they could play X game so they can contribute and be a part of the conversation.
It would have been better if they weren't in the frame trap, and maybe bring someone else if possible instead. If no one else could have been in the FT, then I think it could be fair game, although maybe a bit extreme.
Do the allies talk about what they are going to bring up before recording? If not, then maybe that should be a thing to at least prevent this from happening.
Do the allies talk about what they are going to bring up before recording? If not, then maybe that should be a thing to at least prevent this from happening.
You sure it's not a loading screen tip or something? Because I don't think dialog boxes come out of nowhere in BotW.
Just to add to the pile for Ben's feedback, I wasn't bothered at all that Huber and Brad sat out of discussions. You still have three people each talking about a game and it doesn't ~affect the quality of the content at all for me. Obviously it's hard to keep up with games right now in the current gaming climate. If they haven't played it yet let them handle it how they want to. It doesn't hurt the podcast quality if they can't share the same experience anyway.
"bullying people into playing Persona 5" hahahaahahh
Excited Huber is talking about Into the Badlands, though so far I think the first season is better than the second just because of the action direction. That Scorpion fatality Nathaniel did tho' o:
Also, is Ben going to review the best fighting game?
Excited Huber is talking about Into the Badlands, though so far I think the first season is better than the second just because of the action direction. That Scorpion fatality Nathaniel did tho' o:
Also, is Ben going to review the best fighting game?
Elfforkusu
Member
Grayfox341
Member
It's weird saying this because it's hard to make it sound sincere I think, but I do appreciate everyone's feedback. Having read all of the posts I'll use them to make the next episode better.
Regarding spoilers, I listened to the P5 talk again and in my opinion I don't think we ruined anything from that game. Of course, as is always the case, what I consider spoiler territory may not line up with everyone else, so I do legitimately feel bad if I was off the mark there. I try to be as conscious of it as possible.
On the Zelda dialogue boxes, I get what I was trying to say, but I said it in a pretty dumb/inarticulate way. It happens. I was just plain wrong about the tutorial pop ups.
Regarding spoilers, I listened to the P5 talk again and in my opinion I don't think we ruined anything from that game. Of course, as is always the case, what I consider spoiler territory may not line up with everyone else, so I do legitimately feel bad if I was off the mark there. I try to be as conscious of it as possible.
On the Zelda dialogue boxes, I get what I was trying to say, but I said it in a pretty dumb/inarticulate way. It happens. I was just plain wrong about the tutorial pop ups.
TheCowboyPoet
Member
Yeah they must have added them in because I definitely never saw anything like that with my 140 hours of Wii U.
Nope, it popped up as soon as I tried to climb in the rain. I'm too far gone to reload but if something like that happens again I'll screenshot.
Other accounts get their own saves, so I may play on my Japan account and see what happens.
Merchandise
Member
Only skimming this thread, but did people walk out of Frame Trap due to spoilers? *rolls eyes*
Sometimes they really seem too sensitive for this line of work.
Sometimes they really seem too sensitive for this line of work.
What's the problem? If I was excited about a story-driven game I wouldn't want the story spoiled either.
Merchandise
Member
Perhaps I have a minority opinion on this, but I feel as though being a games journalist requires that you do your job. In a bigger company like IGN I guess you can afford to have people tag out for certain games, but having like half of your team MIA because of Persona or Nier is taking it a little (way) too far.
Possibly Prince Sidon who said it? I can imagine that being the case...
edit: yup. I dont mind this that much, i was thinking you may have tried climbing and a tip popped up saying you cant.
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