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Easy Allies |EZOT2| Love & Respect

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Budi

Member
So, I don't mean I was personally offended or anything. But I found it a bit ironic that Ian of all the allies would be the one saying something racist. Unless I misheard or misunderstood him. When talking about Zelda arrows he used the word "gypped" which ofcourse comes from the word "gypsy" and implies fraud/cheat. But yeah, I'm certain he isn't aware of the origins of the word. But it just stood out because I still remember the "niggling" controversy from a podcast last year, when Ian insisted that Kyle used a racist word. =)

Edit: Just to clarify, not accusing Ian of being racist or even insensitive. Since clearly he isn't. quite the opposite! Just unknowingly used a word that's considered to come with a baggage. And I wouldn't have even mentioned it if it wasn't Ian specifically, I'm sure he would like to be aware of the origins and implication too.
 
So, I don't mean I was personally offended or anything. But I found it a bit ironic that Ian of all the allies would be the one saying something racist. Unless I misheard or misunderstood him. When talking about Zelda arrows he used the word "gypped" which ofcourse comes from the word "gypsy" and implies fraud/cheat. But yeah, I'm certain he isn't aware of the origins of the word. But it just stood out because I still remember the "niggling" controversy from a podcast last year, when Ian insisted that Kyle used a racist word. =)

I actually had an experience in high school saying that and a teacher got really mad at me. I honestly had no idea the word came from gypsy and always thought it was spelled "jipped" and was just a word on its own. I'd imagine a lot of people don't know that.
 

N° 2048

Member
I actually had an experience in high school saying that and a teacher got really mad at me. I honestly had no idea the word came from gypsy and always thought it was spelled "jipped" and was just a word on its own. I'd imagine a lot of people don't know that.

Wow, same.
TIL.
 

mishakoz

Member
So, I don't mean I was personally offended or anything. But I found it a bit ironic that Ian of all the allies would be the one saying something racist. Unless I misheard or misunderstood him. When talking about Zelda arrows he used the word "gypped" which ofcourse comes from the word "gypsy" and implies fraud/cheat. But yeah, I'm certain he isn't aware of the origins of the word. But it just stood out because I still remember the "niggling" controversy from a podcast last year, when Ian insisted that Kyle used a racist word. =)

There are some words people go through life not knowing they are racist, we cant know everything. I used the term "ghetto" a lot, only recently did someone point out that the word has racial connotations.
 

Servbot24

Banned
Perhaps I have a minority opinion on this, but I feel as though being a games journalist requires that you do your job. In a bigger company like IGN I guess you can afford to have people tag out for certain games, but having like half of your team MIA because of Persona or Nier is taking it a little (way) too far.

You really want these guys to get in their suits and ties and start issuing data reports and whatever else "journalists" do? Nah man, we're supporting them because we like who they are as people and we like their passion, and wanting to avoid spoilers is part of their passion. Fast and loose baby
 

Kneefoil

Member
Possibly Prince Sidon who said it? I can imagine that being the case...

edit: yup. I dont mind this that much, i was thinking you may have tried climbing and a tip popped up saying you cant.

There are pop up tips, but I think they only appear once per save file.

You can see the rain climbing tip here for example: https://youtu.be/Kj0rj1Hds9c?t=43m55s

Also, I'm pretty sure they've been there from the start. I got my Switch and BotW three days after release, and I definitely remember seeing this in my own playthrough.
 

mishakoz

Member
There are pop up tips, but I think they only appear once per save file.

You can see the rain climbing tip here for example: https://youtu.be/Kj0rj1Hds9c?t=43m55s

Also, I'm pretty sure they've been there from the start. I got my Switch and BotW three days after release, and I definitely remember seeing this in my own playthrough.

Okay, yeah thats annoying. Still not as bad as Fi or past Zelda's but i bet you there is one for lighting strike
 

Budi

Member
There are some words people go through life not knowing they are racist, we cant know everything. I used the term "ghetto" a lot, only recently did someone point out that the word has racial connotations.

Whoa, well that's surprising. I assume you are from USA? Your schools didn't cover WW2 and more precisely Nazi Germany and their atrocities? That's when I was first time introduced to the word and concept or maybe it was by Elvis, not sure. Though it's older and also wider term than that. And you do have your own history with ghettos in States too ofcourse. Fascinating.

If the person doesn't want to be spoiled I am not sure what they could meaningful add to the conversation in the first place, because obviously they haven't played enough of the game yet.

Yeah this was my thought too, like didn't Huber sit on Last Guardian talk without really mumbling a word since he had no questions or anything to add in their E3 coverage? Why was he there, just to suffer? There's really no point to be there if you have no input to the matter. Sure it might look silly that someone leaves the table, but it hardly matters really.
 

Servbot24

Banned
So, I don't mean I was personally offended or anything. But I found it a bit ironic that Ian of all the allies would be the one saying something racist. Unless I misheard or misunderstood him. When talking about Zelda arrows he used the word "gypped" which ofcourse comes from the word "gypsy" and implies fraud/cheat. But yeah, I'm certain he isn't aware of the origins of the word. But it just stood out because I still remember the "niggling" controversy from a podcast last year, when Ian insisted that Kyle used a racist word. =)

I actually never made that association until this post.
 

mishakoz

Member
Whoa, well that's surprising. I assume you are from USA? Your schools didn't cover WW2 and more precisely Nazi Germany and their atrocities? That's when I was first time introduced to the word and concept or maybe it was by Elvis, not sure. Though it's older and also wider term than that. And you do have your own history with ghettos in States too ofcourse. Fascinating.

Yeah for us its more related to black segregation in America than Nazi Germany but yeah, for me it just meant "run-down, possibly poorly put together". I didnt know until I was most of the way through high school of its... racial nature, and I'm a guy who I consider to be very sensitive to racial issues, just kinda missed the boat on that one.

Like i said, everyone has weird gaps in their knowledge one way or another.
 

Budi

Member
Yeah for us its more related to black segregation in America than Nazi Germany but yeah, for me it just meant "run-down, possibly poorly put together". I didnt know until I was most of the way through high school of its... racial nature, and I'm a guy who I consider to be very sensitive to racial issues, just kinda missed the boat on that one.

Like i said, everyone has weird gaps in their knowledge one way or another.

Oh right now that you mention it, me and few of my friends have also actually used the term "ghetto" back in the days to describe something cheap, poorly put together or just very worn out etc. For example Ghetto-Bong, self made from soda bottles and ballpoint pen. Though to be fair, these weren't poorly put together, much love and care went to these. But it surely was cheap and self made!
 

arkon

Member
So, I don't mean I was personally offended or anything. But I found it a bit ironic that Ian of all the allies would be the one saying something racist. Unless I misheard or misunderstood him. When talking about Zelda arrows he used the word "gypped" which ofcourse comes from the word "gypsy" and implies fraud/cheat. But yeah, I'm certain he isn't aware of the origins of the word. But it just stood out because I still remember the "niggling" controversy from a podcast last year, when Ian insisted that Kyle used a racist word. =)

Wow. I had no idea of its origins. I knew of the word but never really thought it was spelt like that even. It's not a word I can recall myself ever using though (I think).
 
First time in a while I've been able to sit down and listen to Frame Trap in a sitting

Jolly, late morning and early afternoon encompassing content
 

Holundrian

Unconfirmed Member
Regarding the whole recommendation business. It's pretty funny(and this isn't meant in a told you so way) I've settled for friends coming back to me usually two years later telling me they should have listened to me earlier gushing about whatever I was recommending at the time. The funny thing is mostly that the two years pattern seems to apply to a surprising degree, I remember mostly because a lot of the time when people come back it's when the third season of a show starts. Like this is very likely the year of Rick and Morty for a lot of friends of mine. 1 already came back in February.

If we're sticking to games though the only thing I would have to add is that if you happen to see a sale on a game you've recommended be sure to casually let people know. Sometimes people just need that lower entry point. Like for Trails a friend jumped in very much once the first game was at a point where sales would put it up for ~8 bucks. Finished it right in time before the second came out and bought that with the 20% launch week reduction(if it was 20% don't remember quite exactly) instantly.

Edit: Also Ben throwing to the panel about the chances of them checking out Trails this year I found pretty comical. It really felt like a "the struggle is real" moment. Everyone just doing their best to survive through all the awesomeness and the exhaustion just considering another thing to the pile... was just amusing xD.
Dunno if I'm just imagining things but the way Ben spoke about Sky made me think it has sucked him into it more so than Cold Steel which is just... yeah... I think I've long passed the acceptable quota on how much it makes me happy that Ben decided to give it more exposure.
So basically I was just nodding along when he spoke about this is something that more people probably would like, like with Yakuza, they just need to be exposed to it.
 

Axass

Member
Cup of Jones was great and Brandon keeps reminding me why I like him so much.

He has such a positive attitude towards things, he quoted all the criticism he got, even the not-so-nice parts, and actually said "send me more criticism, tell me what we don't do right".

What a guy.
 
Whoa, well that's surprising. I assume you are from USA? Your schools didn't cover WW2 and more precisely Nazi Germany and their atrocities? That's when I was first time introduced to the word and concept or maybe it was by Elvis, not sure. Though it's older and also wider term than that. And you do have your own history with ghettos in States too ofcourse. Fascinating.


I'm from New York, Long Island specifically. "Ghetto" is definitely an overused word by white people to describe anything lower than their own social status or what they consider acceptable for them to partake in. There are definitely "ghetto" parts of Long Island, and especially New York City. Some people refer to a town called Wyandanch as "the ghetto", whereas they've probably never even see an NYC project housing complex and they probably never will. Projects are where super-impoverished people live and are subject to a lot of discrimination. It's not exactly "put all the minorities in these projects", but they wind up there because of institutionalized racism and low economic status. THAT's the fucking ghetto.
 

Hasney

Member
Cup of Jones was great and Brandon keeps reminding me why I like him so much.

He has such a positive attitude towards things, he quoted all the criticism he got, even the not-so-nice parts, and actually said "send me more criticism, tell me what we don't do right".

What a guy.

aAu7910.gif
 

sn00zer

Member
Got my question answered in Frame Trap, signed it sn00zer but sent it from my youtube channel email since I didnt want to use my personal one. Either way glad it was answered (I had the first question)

EDIT: Also getting a question answered on a podcast is terrifying, since youre just casually listening and then they drop your name and its a very "Oh shit" moment
 
Cup of Jones was great and Brandon keeps reminding me why I like him so much.

He has such a positive attitude towards things, he quoted all the criticism he got, even the not-so-nice parts, and actually said "send me more criticism, tell me what we don't do right".

What a guy.

Yep. Can't believe we got a 2 hour Cup of Jones this time around. And I like that he plans on splitting it into different topics, that sounds like a good idea.
 

Bahorel

Member
Wow. I had no idea of its origins. I knew of the word but never really thought it was spelt like that even. It's not a word I can recall myself ever using though (I think).

Yes i think it's simply a matter of many people growing up not knowing the etymology of jipped/gypped. I noticed him saying it but I'm sure he wouldn't use it if he knew.
 

RetroMG

Member
Cup of Jones was great and Brandon keeps reminding me why I like him so much.

He has such a positive attitude towards things, he quoted all the criticism he got, even the not-so-nice parts, and actually said "send me more criticism, tell me what we don't do right".

What a guy.

I haven't watched Cup of Jones, but Jones is pretty easily my favorite of the Allies. They're all great, but I really like him.
 

Burt

Member
Frame Trap was a great listen. And, because it intersects with like 4 different things that were talked about on Frame Trap, I have to drop my Cosmic Star Heroine impressions from that thread here:

Thanks!

Well, long story short, it’s excellent. I think it’s fair to say it’s essentially everything you would hope for with the pitch of “Two devs with a modern take on a Chrono Trigger-style JRPG in 2017”

First and foremost, I cannot overstate how much I like the combat system. I don’t want to misalign expectations too terribly, so I’ll preface things by saying that I’m much more partial to the strategic/tactical aspects of RPG combat than the flashing of huge numbers and intricate spell effects. With that in mind, I can’t think of a JRPG battle system I’ve liked better. Maybe a few that I like to an indistinguishably similar degree (Grandia 1 and 2 spring to mind), but I really can’t think of any I liked more, and CSH’s is so different from my other favorites that it’s hard to imagine a comparison as anything better than apples to oranges.

You’re not going to be able to mash your way through the CSH’s combat, at least not on Heroine difficulty. But that’s okay! Encounter pacing and variety is fantastic, and there are no respawns (unless you want them). Instead, with the way combat works, you have to consciously decide what you’re going to do, and getting there is basically a great optimization puzzle of attacks, defenses, buffs, debuffs, turn order, and Hyper. It sounds like a lot, but it boils down to, “This enemy has that weakness, so what’s the best way to get Party Member X to do Attack Y on Turn Z?” -- applied across however many enemies and and party members are in battle. It’s a refreshing change from the mundanity of typical regular encounter combat, and has about as much depth as any system I’ve seen without any of the extraneous or superfluous bloat that’s present in so many other JRPGs.

Speaking of party members, they’re all pretty fantastic as well. Each has their own distinct combat niche and support capabilities, which means that regardless of your party, everyone’s always able to find a use, particularly as your gear and ability options expand. Characters you initially think are terrible become world-breakers with the right skill or piece of equipment if you can figure out how to work them in the right way - which you’ll have ample opportunity to do, because the game isn’t afraid to lock a specific character or two into your party at regular intervals. There isn’t an overabundance of it or anything, just a bit more than you see in most JRPGs, but whereas in most others it feels like you’re having garbage thrust upon your party, because everyone’s so versatile and viable here it feels more like a well-timed curveball to keep you from settling in too deep on one set group of characters.

The writing in the game - the characters, the story, the dialogue, the little quips you get about each enemy as you target them, and so on and so forth - is good. It’s not going to change how you look at JRPG writing, but the game has a rock-solid understanding of its tone and delivers on it very well. I liked all the characters (/disliked the ones I was supposed to dislike), chuckled a bunch, laughed out loud a few times, and the serious side of the story was well done in that JRPG/anime-y way. I think it's easily the most well-written out of any of Zeboyd's games -- although I'm sure a part of that is just them being able to scale back on Penny Arcade's constant need to be Penny Arcade.

The pacing of the story, and the game overall, is superb. It’s propulsive, always pushing you into reaching new environments, meeting new characters, giving you a valuable equipment upgrade, getting you through a comfy Chrono Trigger-esque dungeon at just the right time, etc. [URL="http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=231024730&postcount=915"]And there are definitely a few moments where I did something like this.
That being said, there’s definitely a healthy amount of interesting side content for players who poke around as well, which I don’t want to get into for spoiler reasons. But it’s good, it’s funny, it’s referential, it’s rewarding, and, occasionally, the most difficult stuff in the game.

Overall, because absolutely literally everyone loves numbers so much, the game is an easy call for the 9.0-9.5 range. There are a lot of games of all genres coming out these days that try to recapture that ‘old game’ magic, but very few of them have managed to balance classic elements and modern refinements as well what you get here.

I have a save 10 hours into Trails of the Sky FC that I put on hold to play this for. I’m more inclined to play this again on Super-Spy difficulty than to go back to that.
[/URL]

Get on it, people. It's one of the best, most refreshing JRPGs I've seen in a decade.

On PC, preferably - patches are coming through faster.
 
Perhaps I have a minority opinion on this, but I feel as though being a games journalist requires that you do your job. In a bigger company like IGN I guess you can afford to have people tag out for certain games, but having like half of your team MIA because of Persona or Nier is taking it a little (way) too far.

Brad's working on the Dark Souls Retro plus streams and probably some other stuff. Huber's working on the MLB The Show review plus streams, his weekly shows and probably some other stuff. Seems like they're doing their jobs to me.

Ben's the one whose job it was to play both games for their reviews and he did. Brad, Ian and Huber are playing them in their spare time.

I do think they get pretty silly with the media blackouts (not just this, Huber was just talking about Kyle and his Star Wars media blackout on Talking Syndrome) but I don't really see the big deal. I do think Ben should maybe take this stuff into account when picking his lineup though.

So, I don't mean I was personally offended or anything. But I found it a bit ironic that Ian of all the allies would be the one saying something racist. Unless I misheard or misunderstood him. When talking about Zelda arrows he used the word "gypped" which ofcourse comes from the word "gypsy" and implies fraud/cheat. But yeah, I'm certain he isn't aware of the origins of the word. But it just stood out because I still remember the "niggling" controversy from a podcast last year, when Ian insisted that Kyle used a racist word. =)

Edit: Just to clarify, not accusing Ian of being racist or even insensitive. Since clearly he isn't. quite the opposite! Just unknowingly used a word that's considered to come with a baggage. And I wouldn't have even mentioned it if it wasn't Ian specifically, I'm sure he would like to be aware of the origins and implication too.

Yeah, I noticed that too. Glad you brought it up.

Great episode. I'm way, way too tired to remember Ben's argument on the "Japan is back" Hottake segment or write up a decent post but my quick take is that the "turn around" actually happened late last gen, the last few months have just been one big coincidence (especially once you realise Yakuza 0's a 2015 game) but a good one because it finally turned a lot of people's heads. And there's a bunch of reasons why it's happened, including publishers/developers learning from a ton of mistakes last gen, some smart restructures/investments, Epic Games Japan putting in some great work and the PS4 being worlds easier to develop for than the PS3.

Also, I can't remember if I'm remembering this wrong (as I said above, super tired) but did Ian say he couldn't tell the Souls games were Japanese? I thought it was pretty obvious, especially the combat and world building.

Edit:
Frame Trap was a great listen. And, because it intersects with like 4 different things that were talked about on Frame Trap, I have to drop my Cosmic Star Heroine impressions from that thread here:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=233692810&postcount=205

Get on it, people. It's one of the best, most refreshing JRPGs I've seen in a decade.

On PC, preferably - patches are coming through faster.

Awesome to hear. I'm still waiting on my Kickstarter EU PSN key, though I don't really mind waiting because I've still got to finish Persona 5 and then Full Throttle Remastered first.

It isn't a JRPG if it's not Japanese though. :p
 

Budi

Member
Got my question answered in Frame Trap, signed it sn00zer but sent it from my youtube channel email since I didnt want to use my personal one. Either way glad it was answered (I had the first question)

EDIT: Also getting a question answered on a podcast is terrifying, since youre just casually listening and then they drop your name and its a very "Oh shit" moment

It was a great question, glad they answered it! And yeah, I'm sure my heart would jump to my throat if I ever sent a question and it got answered. I would be terrified and thinking that my question is so dumb and I seem like an idiot now! While ofcourse it would probably be a decent question since it got picked in the first place. :)

I'm from New York, Long Island specifically. "Ghetto" is definitely an overused word by white people to describe anything lower than their own social status or what they consider acceptable for them to partake in. There are definitely "ghetto" parts of Long Island, and especially New York City. Some people refer to a town called Wyandanch as "the ghetto", whereas they've probably never even see an NYC project housing complex and they probably never will. Projects are where super-impoverished people live and are subject to a lot of discrimination. It's not exactly "put all the minorities in these projects", but they wind up there because of institutionalized racism and low economic status. THAT's the fucking ghetto.

This post somehow made me think of Wire, everyone should watch it. Excellent show.

Edit: Show me a hero could be recommended too in this context I think. Also an HBO show by David Simon.
 
It was a great question, glad they answered it! And yeah, I'm sure my heart would jump to my throat if I ever sent a question and it got answered. I would be terrified and thinking that my question is so dumb and I seem like an idiot now! While ofcourse it would probably be a decent question since it got picked in the first place. :)



This post somehow made me think of Wire, everyone should watch it. Excellent show.

Baltimore is fucking crazy. I've driven up and down the coast a couple times and I legit never stop in Baltimore.
 

Visceir

Member
In regards to spoiler walk-outs -- didn't really bother me all that much but the conversations have clearly been better in the past (Resident Evil, Horizon) when all podcast members have been present and participated in the conversation.

It does feel like Huber's (and some other allies') hypersensitivity to spoilers has been encouraged and enabled far too much to the point where it is affecting the content, the obvious "solution" would be to just tell him to cut it out with that stuff.

Maybe just agree upon which games will be talked on the podcast and to what extent and just give the cast members the homework to play the games to that part or something, would probably improve the conversations too. More work for Ben though.
 

Hasney

Member
Maybe just agree upon which games will be talked on the podcast and to what extent and just give the cast members the homework to play the games to that part or something, would probably improve the conversations too. More work for Ben though.

But Huber said he didn't play much due to EZA work, so you run into the problem of that affecting other content.
 

Budi

Member
In regards to spoiler walk-outs -- didn't really bother me all that much but the conversations have clearly been better in the past (Resident Evil, Horizon) when all podcast members have been present and participated in the conversation.

It does feel like Huber's (and some other allies') hypersensitivity to spoilers has been encouraged and enabled far too much to the point where it is affecting the content, the obvious "solution" would be to just tell him to cut it out with that stuff.

Maybe just agree upon which games will be talked on the podcast and to what extent and just give the cast members the homework to play the games to that part or something, would probably improve the conversations too. More work for Ben though.

While I earlier said I don't mind the blackouts and walkouts, when you mentioned hypersensitivity I took time to think about it again. And I do think that there should be a limit to that, just make sure you won't talk story spoiler stuff in the podcast unless you were supposed to. Talking about game mechanics, weapons, locations etc. should be something that Allies can handle. And ofcourse common sense helps here, maybe don't talk about the location where the game ends or don't be overly specific with all the details. I do sympathize with not wanting to get spoiled, but only if not taken to extremes. Like I sometimes see happen in Neogaf.

Others also brought up a good point, that even when the person in question can't add their input fully without playing the game, they can still ask interesting questions.
 

Hasney

Member
The only real way to do it would be for those game is just to mention it, ask them how they're enjoying it and then out a pin in it until others are further into it. I was lucky I took a week off for Zelda/Switch and that Persona 5 arrived on the Saturday before release because I wouldn't be touching any media with a barge pole. I looked at some closing statements in reviews on both and that was about it, because even putting names to arcanas in Persona before I found out for myself would bum me out.

Others also brought up a good point, that even when the person in question can't add their input fully without playing the game, they can still ask interesting questions.

That's only if they want to though. If they don't want to be engaged in that conversation and are just sitting there because they don't want to know anything but the basics, those questions are not going to be asked. You'd have to change their personalities for it.
 

WarRock

Member
Frame Trap was a great listen. And, because it intersects with like 4 different things that were talked about on Frame Trap, I have to drop my Cosmic Star Heroine impressions from that thread here:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=233692810&postcount=205

Get on it, people. It's one of the best, most refreshing JRPGs I've seen in a decade.

On PC, preferably - patches are coming through faster.
aaaaaagh
I feel so guilty not buying CSH on release day, but I've been able to put only 3 or 4h into Hollow Knight and skipped Bleed 2 already )=
And I never got around buying Xanadu Next too, damn it.

Will get it at full price soon-ish, I hope, but hell if I know when I'll be able to play.
 

mishakoz

Member
That's only if they want to though. If they don't want to be engaged in that conversation and are just sitting there because they don't want to know anything but the basics, those questions are not going to be asked. You'd have to change their personalities for it.

I don't see why having something like last FT where everyone asked Ben P5 questions is a bad thing. It was a good discussion.

And if someone his hypersensitive to spoilers, maybe they shouldn't be on that week and Blood, Daimiani or Jones should be on. Noping out of your own podcast for 10-15 min is a real weird thing to do. Nobody minds that they are busy and this really isn't a very big deal, but again, constructive criticism is to be encouraged.
 

Budi

Member
That's only if they want to though. If they don't want to be engaged in that conversation and are just sitting there because they don't want to know anything but the basics, those questions are not going to be asked. You'd have to change their personalities for it.

That's very true, but I'm sure all the Allies can come up with questions that wont spoil the game for them. They are smart guys. Like the questions Kyle was mentioned asking, answers weren't spoilery at all. And ofcourse this brings up the part where everyone has their own treshold for what they consider spoilers. This is why I agreed on not being hypersensitive about it.

Just to throw in a possible example about Phantom Pain. "Do you go on missions alone, or do I ever get any company?" Answer would be yes, you can take company and then we could mention how many different companions it's possible to get, how do they affect gameplay, can they die on the missions, do they level up, can I equip items on them etc. With this info people still wouldn't know that when they encounter
Quiet, she
turns to an ally.

And yeah like mishakoz said, I don't find this to be a huge deal for me either. I can deal with it, but I truly think that hypersensitive spoilerphobia can only harm the content by EZA, not improve. Not demanding any changes, but it's how I see it.

Edit: And especially since there really isn't spoilers casually thrown around in Frame Trap (atleast usually). It's always discussion in more general sense if not mentioned otherwise, meaning clearly labeled and pre-planned spoilertalk.
 

diablogod

Member
In regards to someone wanting to peace out for a certain game discussion I have no issues with that at all. I don't want them to feel like they're spoiling themselves just so they can have a discussion for a game they can offer very little input on. For the people that have an issue with this, is it really hurting your enjoyment of the podcast that much you would rather someone sit in on a discussion they clearly want no part in?
 

Hasney

Member
I don't see why having something like last FT where everyone asked Ben P5 questions is a bad thing. It was a good discussion.

And if someone his hypersensitive to spoilers, maybe they shouldn't be on that week and Blood, Daimiani or Jones should be on. Noping out of your own podcast for 10-15 min is a real weird thing to do. Nobody minds that they are busy and this really isn't a very big deal, but again, constructive criticism is to be encouraged.

Because at that point, Ben is the only person to have played that game so everyone is on an even playing field bar the host, which is a very different conversation to two or three people who have played a game talking about it, especially when one of them isn't close to the series and wouldn't really know what would be considered a spoiler or not. There are some seemingly tiny things in all the Persona games that you don't realise are huge until you finish.

If people have a problem with it, yes, a solution should be found. But the only one I can think of that works is to just put a pin in those games until people have caught up. Now Bosmans asked his basic outline questions on Persona 5 and vought in as well as liking the initial part of Nier:A, I doubt he'd be up for much conversation. Brandon is a madman and said he's going to aim for 4 Cup of Jones in consecutive ish weeks during his FF6 stream as well as cutting some stuff right now so the only replacements would be Damiani and Blood if available and if not, then there's an empty chair there. And I'd rather someone leaves the room for 10 minutes than have that the entire cast.

I dunno. Maybe I don't have a problem with it because it happens on other podcasts I listen to and no one seems to bat an eyelid. People that are the most passionate about a subject are the ones that are going to be the most sensitive to it.
 

mishakoz

Member
In regards to someone wanting to peace out for a certain game discussion I have no issues with that at all. I don't want them to feel like they're spoiling themselves just so they can have a discussion for a game they can offer very little input on. For the people that have an issue with this, is it really hurting your enjoyment of the podcast that much you would rather someone sit in on a discussion they clearly want no part in?

I think I (and others) who rather the following:

1) That ally is replaced with another for that podcast that will be able to participate in some way, either by asking questions or furthering discussion in some way. Kyle is really organically good at furthering discussion in areas he doesnt know too much about, for instance

2) If they dont want to be part of the discussion that's fine, leaving the table is a bit weird. Also, there is an issue of equivalency. If someone on the panel thinks it might be too spoilery, perhaps your audience will as well and it may be best to skip that discussion altogether.

Again, im just explaining why its a little weird. I dont want to pretend this is a big deal for me. but i did chuckle to myself when After huber had come back, Brad covers his ears then leaves. "Tag out!"
 

wiibomb

Member
I think I (and others) who rather the following:

1) That ally is replaced with another for that podcast that will be able to participate in some way, either by asking questions or furthering discussion in some way. Kyle is really organically good at furthering discussion in areas he doesnt know too much about, for instance

2) If they dont want to be part of the discussion that's fine, leaving the table is a bit weird. Also, there is an issue of equivalency. If someone on the panel thinks it might be too spoilery, perhaps your audience will as well and it may be best to skip that discussion altogether.

Again, im just explaining why its a little weird. I dont want to pretend this is a big deal for me. but i did chuckle to myself when After huber had come back, Brad covers his ears then leaves. "Tag out!"

well summarized, I think that is something weird that shouldn't really be happening, either talk about it very light-spoilery or just don't talk about it at all, I don't think it is good to see the panel switching in and out of conversations in a middle of a podcast.

again, it is weird, but I don't think is such a big deal.

Also, Kyle could be better at this because he isn't moderating a podcast talking about specific games, but more about news, which are inherently not spoilers unless they are very specific (like the P5 PR notes from Atlus), in Frame Trap the panel could be getting... Frame... Trapped.
 

mishakoz

Member
well summarized, I think that is something weird that shouldn't really be happening, either talk about it very light-spoilery or just don't talk about it at all, I don't think it is good to see the panel switching in and out of conversations in a middle of a podcast.

again, it is weird, but I don't think is such a big deal.

Also, Kyle could be better at this because he isn't moderating a podcast talking about specific games, but more about news, which are inherently not spoilers unless they are very specific (like the P5 PR notes from Atlus), in Frame Trap the panel could be getting... Frame... Trapped.

Well Kyle sometimes asks Troll questions (see hall of greats stream discussion) but they do get people talking, which I appreciate a lot. Sometimes it is a bit too trolly but i think it comes from a genuine place of either playing "devil's advocate" or generate a good discussion.

For instance, i would love if someone had ask some devil's advocate question "What if this game is too Japanese for me?" "I hear the localization is a little wonky" "do you agree with the Atlus Streaming guiidelines" "If this is my first Persona game will I be okay" "what are some tips you have for starting out" etc. etc. (I know some form of these were asked the prior Frametrap but I forget it was like 40 min straight of p5.)

It probably hasnt aged well for obvious reasons but just remember how good/memorable Jones V. Ben No Man Sky discussion was. There doesnt need to be a dissenter role cast, but i think more angles can be covered.
 
Ben

I loved that Trails in the Sky talk. I finished it last December (went with it instead of FFXV) and loved it. I hope to play Second Chapter next December

Look forward to hearing more!

Jason Schreier from Kotaku who's a long time advocate would be proud.
 

wiibomb

Member
Well Kyle sometimes asks Troll questions (see hall of greats stream discussion) but they do get people talking, which I appreciate a lot. Sometimes it is a bit too trolly but i think it comes from a genuine place of either playing "devil's advocate" or generate a good discussion.

For instance, i would love if someone had ask some devil's advocate question "What if this game is too Japanese for me?" "I hear the localization is a little wonky" "do you agree with the Atlus Streaming guiidelines" "If this is my first Persona game will I be okay" "what are some tips you have for starting out" etc. etc. (I know some form of these were asked the prior Frametrap but I forget it was like 40 min straight of p5.)

It probably hasnt aged well for obvious reasons but just remember how good/memorable Jones V. Ben No Man Sky discussion was. There doesnt need to be a dissenter role cast, but i think more angles can be covered.

yeah, I think that is the main difference between how Ben moderates and how Kyle does it, the trolly/devil's advocate questions are extremely good to make the panel talk about a specific topic out of nowhere, Ben tends to make longs discussions detailing specific details about games which could easily enter spoiler territory.

I wonder if Ben trying to make more wacky/trolly questions to the panel (as a manner of hottake) in a middle of a game discussion would divert the conversation from entering spoilers and instead talking about just a certain general aspect. Sometimes I think the panel knows there conversation goes, and that is why huber or brad just straight out goes away... they "know" the conversation would enter into spoilers
 
It might make sense for Ben/all to consider going over a list of games the panel is spoiler-sensitive to, and either putting discussion for those games on hold... or just moving it to the end of the podcast (and unceremoniously kicking the dissenting parties out of the garage -- "you don't get to quit, you're FIRED!!")

But I'm just spit balling here.
 

Mista Koo

Member
I dunno. Maybe I don't have a problem with it because it happens on other podcasts I listen to and no one seems to bat an eyelid. People that are the most passionate about a subject are the ones that are going to be the most sensitive to it.
I only listened to one episode of 8-4 where this happened. I did find it a bit weird. But:
  1. It wasn't on cam.
  2. They always seem to have more people than a discussion can handle, so their format often has people silent for like an entire segment.
  3. I don't know them individually well to care. In fact I still don't recognize all of them by voice.
This point is even more hyperbolic, but it was Breath of the Wild. It's a game that people spent a hundred hours in and they were still discovering new things.

At the end of the day I think they should trust their coworkers not to spoil things.
 

Nasbin

Member
People need to acknowledge how anomalous this quarter is and realize that spoiler dipping isn't going to be a regular thing. Look at what's coming out in Q2, Q3 of this year - what are people are going to be seriously looking to guard themselves on spoiler-wise? Tekken 7 story mode looks fun and all but you don't get torrents of huge narrative driven single player games like Horizon-Nier-Zelda-Persona in the span of a single month like this very often, if ever. It's a great thing that the Allies take their enthusiasm seriously enough to know when to bow out of a conversation or not watch another trailer that probably reveals too much - that's the age we live in as hyper aware consumers and it only makes sense that the critics should take a similar approach.

It isn't a JRPG if it's not Japanese though. :p

Cosmic Star Heroine, Child of Light, and The Stick of Truth are all straight up JRPGs in any reasonably useful sense of the term. If someone starts a thread in gaming asking for JRPG recommendations, 99% of the time they're just asking for Dragon Quest-likes, not games that happened to be produced in the nation state of Japan.
 

_Ryo_

Member
So I've pretty much missed everything in the past week and a half except Tabletop, P5 review and EZA podcast since I've been pretty much playing p5 nonstop.

Has Kyle started yet? Said anything about it, if he likes or hates it? Know Brandon said he was enjoying it. What about other allies?
 

ShadyK54

Member
In regards to someone wanting to peace out for a certain game discussion I have no issues with that at all. I don't want them to feel like they're spoiling themselves just so they can have a discussion for a game they can offer very little input on. For the people that have an issue with this, is it really hurting your enjoyment of the podcast that much you would rather someone sit in on a discussion they clearly want no part in?

It just seems like a super weird thing to get miffed about. I mean, they just left to take a walk, & the conversations that followed seemed in depth & easy flowing (to me).

But it's whatever. I'm just happy with any mention of P5 because damn, what a game. It's all I can think about right now lol.

Also, all this talk about the Trails series has piqued my interest. Putting them on my 'Play sometime in the future' list.
 
Was all excited to start Nier: A today... turn on the game, go into the menu to change voices to Japanese because weeb, and the text is mangled AF. So I can't play.

That's a bummer. Waste of $50.
 

MrMette

Member
Speaking about the Hall of the Greats... wonder if Huber will elect Yakuza next time.

While I know Huber loves the Yakuza series, I am sure there are plenty of other games which are more worthy of being in there that he will elect first.

I am not saying the Yakuza games aren't great. I only played 2 of them (4 and 0) and 4 was one of my most favorite games on PS3 (although I only used my PS3 for exclusives, so it doesn't say as much as it could have, I love that game), but there are plenty of "classics" which are (imo) more worthy of being nominated before Yakuza. Maybe in some years (I wouldn't mind that series to be in there though).


Also:
As far as the "racist" comments go, I will say this again (but I am somewhat afraid of starting the same conversation again than some months ago with "Tails from the East" and I don't want to do that).

Imo, if a word or something somebody says isn't meant as a racist thing, it isn't racist.

I can understand people would rather not have other people using specific words because of the connotation, but a language is to express thoughts of people. If they aren't meaning something to be racist, it can never be racist.

Especially with Ian, everybody knows well enough that he doesn't mean it the racist way and I can imagine most people (who know the word, I am not an English native speaker, so I never heard of it), know what he means by saying that word.

If a word is used by a large group of people in a specific way, over the years, it can have a different meaning than it originally was used for and imo (again, this is my opinion), I don't think there is anything wrong with using that word.

That's how language works, it evolves over the years.

Btw:
I don't see a problem with some of them leaving for a short while if games are discussed they don't want to be spoiled on either.

Also the new P5 accolades trailer did "spoil" some characters for me. I guess Atlus can spoil whatever they want or something (but DON'T STREAM PAST 7/7), I just wanted to see if EZA was mentioned in there or not. It's not the worst thing and I'll be fine as I saw a picture of her in some game magazine as well, but I don't get how they can be on such a high horse about spoilers and then spoil stuff multiple times themselves.
Also something I noticed in the review was that it contained some footage past 7/7, but I didn't feel like I was spoiled in that one. As long as Atlus won't block EZA, I am fine with that. Great review imo.
 
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