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Easy Allies |EZOT2| Love & Respect
- Thread starter Auctopus
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IdreamofHIME
Member
Agreed, combat felt janky as fuck and then I switched it over... boom, perfection.
SprachBrooks
Member
Is Frame Trap this week?! Going to be a good whenever it is out.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
Next Monday
Is it spoilery in any way?
That review sure didn't seem to match that score.
Grayfox341
Member
This is something I tried to be extra careful of. Can you elaborate? If you prefer DM that's fine.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
I could see how it come off since he mentioned the various faults in different aspects of the game. But I think to me it seems like more a game with warts but what it does well and the vibes it gives off smoothes those out where they're not glaring issues
Grayfox341
Member
Yep. This is exactly where I was coming from.
Roberto Larcos
Member
Ben, personal opinion. Is this a good entry point to the Final Fantasy series? I've never played any FF games, though I did manage to see Kingsglaive in the cinema last week (on the recommendation of Ian).
Ultimadrago
Member
I agree. By the end, I was expecting a point lower or, at highest, half a star lower from what the final score was. Problematic partner A.I., a majority of sidequests being dull MMO-like activites, Major missable components to the story stashed behind tag-along media and an iffy combat camera is not what I think of when I see a score that high. It came off to me more of a mixed, positive-slanting review, not glowing.
From what I'm hearing (not playing it, but some friends are), I expected a harsher review, specially in relation to the story. But yeah, it really felt like Ben acknowledged the game has lots of flaws but the package (and the attempts at a new way to make/present/play FF) are worth it.
Also, those summons look nuts. Is there anything comparable to Type-0's Alexander, storywise?
Also, those summons look nuts. Is there anything comparable to Type-0's Alexander, storywise?
Grayfox341
Member
I think it is, yes.
Nitpicks require just as much time to point out as it does to say "holy cow this game is great". That can make a review seem more negative than it actually is, when the nitpicks actually carry much less weight.
Roberto Larcos
Member
Cheers, I'll put it on my 'to buy' list.
As for people critiquing the review score, I think it's generally accepted that huge, open-world games are given a free pass on certain aspects. Oblivion's dungeons were shockingly bad, still got great reviews. Skyrim was buggy as fuck and the quests are pretty shallow, still got great reviews. Dragon Age Inquisition dragged in places, still got great reviews. The Witcher's combat has never been great, still got great reviews. Metal Gear Solid V flat-out wasn't finished, still got great reviews.
It's so easy to get hung up on the small things with these games, and by doing so you end up risking missing the wood for the trees. As an overall package, the game can be great. Just as long as there's no deal-breaker, then there's a lot I can personally tolerate in open-world RPGs that I don't in other genres.
You rate the game as an overall package, and by the account in review, it is by and large excellent.
It just seemed like your issues with the elements of the game were greater than a 9/10 suggests. The story all but requiring the anime and movie for full appreciaton, the lows of the story telling, AI babysitting in combat with camera problems, empty feeling openness of the world.
It does seem like you really enjoyed the game and charcters despite the issues, but those issues can't just be overlooked by weighing the best of the game against them.
SprachBrooks
Member
Grayfox341
Member
I think this is really fair and helpful feedback.
As someone mentioned, a lot of my favorite moments I didn't want to spoil. It could be that I overcompensated though.
Grayfox341
Member
It's a substantial improvement, particularly with HDR. That being said, I also think the regular looks good so I hesitate saying "run out and buy a pro".
TheDarkKnight774
Member
Nooooo the ups rang the doorbell that had My FFXV order but then didn't leave it on my porch. That's never happened before. Come back to me FFXV!
I will say this: You scored it higher than expected, but what you said within the review still stands. For me, I will not buy the game based on that. The 4,5 in the end doesn't matter in that regard. So you did the most important part of your job!
Great review! I loved the score because it seems detached from all the baggage that the game brings with it and that can easily overshadow the conversation. The review itself did a fine job of mentioning the problems and explaining some of them and their origins, but that never got in the way of appreciating what the game does well. For me, it's much better than I anticipated both on a technical and on a character building level so far.
Reviews for games with a difficult history like No Man's Sky, FF XV and The Last Guardian are pretty delicate and I think Ben handled this one really well. NMS also got a fair shake back in the day so good job all around.
I'm curious who's on the TLG review now.
Reviews for games with a difficult history like No Man's Sky, FF XV and The Last Guardian are pretty delicate and I think Ben handled this one really well. NMS also got a fair shake back in the day so good job all around.
I'm curious who's on the TLG review now.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
Blood is doing the TLG review
Holundrian
Unconfirmed Member
It really does, it's been somewhat divisive among my friends. Personally holding off right now and waiting 1-2 months to see how people feel about it then. The impression I got from friends talking is that it seems like a fun game to play, but probably not going to be a game that would stay with me (like something like a Last of Us, Persona 5 or The Witness).
i wonder if this game would have gotten a 9/10 if it wasnt called final fantasy.
i've personally given up on it. 8 hours in and its just... ehhhhhhh.
i wanted to like it soooo badly. but the side quests are dull. seriously, they are straight up 2006 mmo fetch quests. the environments are empty. i just arrived at a big city. theres 10 people here. the story is just not that captivating. maybe ive been spoilt by the witcher. but the writing in this game is all over the shop. and i say that having watched brotherhood and kingsglaive. and the combat is alright (though not anywhere near as good as something like batman) but the fights are starting to all play out the same. beyond the boss fights, the npcs are not easy enough to make big groups a breeze. but not hard enough to warrant going into wait mode or using anything beyond holding down circle. and thats not to mention the at times shitty fucking camera and the npc spawn spam. also traversal is so painful. sitting in a car while it drives slowly across a desert is boring as fuck. having a limit on how far you can sprint but letting you play a mini game to extend it is just a weird mechanic. i legit had one fetch quest where it wanted me to sit in the car (WHICH YOU DONT EVEN GET TO DRIVE) for 7 fucking minutes. thats just. not. fun. there are immense loading screens. the game has a lot in common with ff7. but that commonality is basically the confusing ui and controls. and honestly, it might not even be better than ff14 imo. at least ff14 has life in it. i can see people. i can change my appearance.
i dunno... its just. decidedly average. but its trying sooo hard to please and i'm trying sooo hard to be pleased. but i think we both know thats its just not quite there. if you looked inside your heart and asked yourself, forget about the past, and what final fantasy means to you, is this game great? i dont see how you could say yes.
i've personally given up on it. 8 hours in and its just... ehhhhhhh.
i wanted to like it soooo badly. but the side quests are dull. seriously, they are straight up 2006 mmo fetch quests. the environments are empty. i just arrived at a big city. theres 10 people here. the story is just not that captivating. maybe ive been spoilt by the witcher. but the writing in this game is all over the shop. and i say that having watched brotherhood and kingsglaive. and the combat is alright (though not anywhere near as good as something like batman) but the fights are starting to all play out the same. beyond the boss fights, the npcs are not easy enough to make big groups a breeze. but not hard enough to warrant going into wait mode or using anything beyond holding down circle. and thats not to mention the at times shitty fucking camera and the npc spawn spam. also traversal is so painful. sitting in a car while it drives slowly across a desert is boring as fuck. having a limit on how far you can sprint but letting you play a mini game to extend it is just a weird mechanic. i legit had one fetch quest where it wanted me to sit in the car (WHICH YOU DONT EVEN GET TO DRIVE) for 7 fucking minutes. thats just. not. fun. there are immense loading screens. the game has a lot in common with ff7. but that commonality is basically the confusing ui and controls. and honestly, it might not even be better than ff14 imo. at least ff14 has life in it. i can see people. i can change my appearance.
i dunno... its just. decidedly average. but its trying sooo hard to please and i'm trying sooo hard to be pleased. but i think we both know thats its just not quite there. if you looked inside your heart and asked yourself, forget about the past, and what final fantasy means to you, is this game great? i dont see how you could say yes.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
I swear it makes my blood boil just a lil when ppl try nd do this
"I don't like thing as much so obviously you shouldn't like it either" like come on. That second paragraph is so unnecessary
Grayfox341
Member
I think it's fine if you don't like the game, but the whole "if this wasn't Final Fantasy it wouldn't get this score" argument doesn't hold any water in my opinion and is a personal pet peeve. What is the point in evaluating the hypothetical? It IS a Final Fantasy game. That's mixed into its core identity. The game uses many elements from the series (both obvious and not) in nearly every facet of what it is. It seems dishonest to disregard that in order to chase after a false sense of objectivity. I'm not going to hold the fact that the series has a lengthy and influential history against it. The same way I wouldn't hold the lack of history against a new IP.
There are very valid reasons for a negative response to XV. Absolutely. But I don't think painting the people that do like it as being "blinded by fandom" is fair or well considered.
From what people have been saying the ending is impactful as fuck though, so it will probably take a time till people get that to remember the game by. Right now we're all pretty much in the open world sections, that are more about having fun with the gameplay mechanics than making a lasting impact.
Yeah, take the name away and it's a goddamn fun game in it's own right. I love exploring, doing a bunch if side missions, riding a chocobo out in the wilderness before going back to the market city in a high end hotel or camping out somewhere and having one of your boys come talk to you either wanting advice, or check in with your state of mind. Unless the game nosedives in the second half, it's my GOTY in a stupidly strong year for games.
Since they went 3D, I seem to like every other FF game. I really don't like 8, 10 or 13. But the ones in between are fantastic.
Since they went 3D, I seem to like every other FF game. I really don't like 8, 10 or 13. But the ones in between are fantastic.
Holundrian
Unconfirmed Member
Can't really comment on that. I'm definitely interested in the continuing conversation around the game. Just right now from the things I've been told and have read I have little reason to believe that FFXV is the game for me right now, sadly.
I'm admittingly very cautious since XIII let me down insanely hard(and that reviewed pretty well too) on every front but designs and music. So hoping that many more perspectives coming to the discussion can shine a clearer image on the game so it becomes easier to know if I might like/love it after all and waiting doesn't bother me that much anyway.
Yeah i've read a lot of people saying the ending its not only one of the best in the saga, but one of the best in gaming.
This really makes me want to skip all the side content and just run for it lol.
This is more an aside than anything and not particular related to FFXV, but the focus on endings in any medium, but Videogames and especially Television soured me on a lot of discussions surrounding certain works. People (again, no one in particular) who do that certainly have a high chance landing on my "Okay buddy, suuure..."-list.
i'm only bringing it up as i (a massive final fantasy fan) try to reconcile my experience with the game and the critical response it is getting. i want to love this game but objectively there are things in it that would be unforgivable if they were in another game.
the fact that big parts of the already disjointed story are cut out and put into other external mediums. the fact that theres no player agency for traversal between points on the map in an open world game. the fact that there is no ai (beyond following a path) for the absurdly limited npcs in the towns. the fact that the majority of side quests are 2006 mmo style 'gather 3 types of mineral' quests. the camera, the ui, the lack of character customisation.
this is 2016. we're in a post witcher3, post gta5, post uncharted 4, post bloodborne world.
i'm just trying to work out what is in ff15 that has made you (and others) score it on par with these games? and the only thing i can honestly come up with is that you (and i) want this game to be better than it actually is.
The review is great. I echo that I was expecting a lower score after what Ben actually said in the review but I've found in the past that my personal score is usually a star (or in the GT days, about 2.0 points) lower than Ben's score.
(Thanks for taking one for the team, Ben. I'm sure reviewing FFXV wasn't your ideal way of playing through the game for the first time.)
(Thanks for taking one for the team, Ben. I'm sure reviewing FFXV wasn't your ideal way of playing through the game for the first time.)
Bloodworth
Member
When I read the script, I thought either or a 4 or 4 1/2 would be appropriate. When I saw the cut, I felt like 4 1/2 was the right call. Definitely want to get into it. hopefully I'll have time next week.
Grayfox341
Member
I think that's a natural question. The only caveat is that it's hard for me to compare FFXV with Bloodborne or Uncharted 4. The scope of those games and what they're trying to accomplish is very different. I love both, however. Especially Bloodborne.
I feel like this is a common thing lobbed at Witcher 3, so forgive me, but while I moderately enjoy the combat in that game, I reached a point pretty quickly where it didn't excite me. I think Witcher 3 is incredible. Better than just a fantastic game. I honestly believe it will go down as an RPG "great". However, I never felt like there was enough to dig into with the combat. (And that's okay. I don't think every game that has combat needs it to be an amazing aspect. I'm just making a comparison to explain my position on FFXV)
While not especially difficult and I wish there was a hard mode, I still after 60 hours get a kick out of fighting things in XV. If you really go out of your way, there are a lot of weapons you can unlock that all feel dramatically different. Getting better at air combos, grabbing new skills for your friends, switching weapons on the fly, throwing things into chaos with magic, all of it is flashy, fun, and feels good to do.
It's not just combat, though. I think the relationship between Noctis and his friends is actually very well developed. I'm still hearing conversations amongst the group that surprise me or make me like them just a bit more. It's also very little things, which XIII didn't have. Sitting around the campfire, falling asleep on your Chocobo, and Ignis developing an absurd amount of recipes. They invest in the "brotherhood" aspect and it worked for me.
The thing is, and what's frustrating at this point in time, is I feel differently about the game than I did when I started it. I think in so very, very many ways it reveals its best aspects slowly. It's also more of a culmination of little things than a few big things that I love. I wonder if some people will have the same experience I did. Maybe not.
The last thing I want to say is that although there are certainly problems with the story, there are also moments that hit me. Hard. The ending is one of those moments, but it's a lot more than that. I wish I could say more, and I will comment specifically on that stuff when appropriate.
I hope this offers some clarity. It's nice being able to even have a conversation like this.
If possible (in regards to who got to finish it when and so on), there should definitely be a spoiler cast-like video from you guys - otherwise looking forward to the Frame Trap discussion ;-) Dunno how much specific spoilers would enrich that particular discussion.
Grayfox341
Member
I thought we were getting somewhere, but maybe not. Despite what anyone says, 4.5 stars is what I think the game deserves and I stand by that. If I cared about angering fanbases I would have stopped doing this a long time ago. Most any review I do pisses off someone. It comes with the territory. I'm cool with that. If you see a high score you disagree with, it's not fear. Just a difference of opinion.
It's Ben's opinion so whatever score he felt was appropriate was the right score. I follow EZA/GT 'cause I enjoy hearing the different opinions of the crew but I never let it sway my opinion and I don't let it bother me if one of the crew has a different opinion about a game to me.
Yes, I thought the score was going to be lower before I heard it but when you're writing a 1000+ word review of a game, subtleties and more conflicted thoughts are going to be more apparent than in an arbitrary number.
Nice!! these get their own thread right?
Grayfox341
Member
This is the primary reason I spend so much time in this thread. I think people here on average tend to be more mature and reasonable than what you get on something like YouTube. Not always, but more often than not. So thank you, Auctopus and everyone else that is relatively chill even when you're being critical. I don't think anyone should be afraid of speaking their mind, but it's always easier to engage when it feels like people are willing to give you a chance to speak your side.
They sure do. I'll do it if no-one fancies typing up the bets in the next little bit while I finish off watching something else, I'll fire on up and add the bets as I watch it.
yo. its not a slight against you. its a slight against the comments i am currently reading on the ign and gamespot ff15 reviews which both gave the game an 8. do i remember someone having to qualify their post e3 ff15 demo comments? some people have a lot riding on this game being good.
i honestly think we are closer in agreement that it seems. and i dont want to say that anyones opinion on anything is right or wrong (actually maybe i do). if someone enjoys something, thats all that really matters. i'm just coming at it from a critical/score/review angle. why does one game score this way when another scores that way.
you compare ff15's combat to witchers. the combat was the low point of witcher. the world and story were its high points. i personally dont think ff15 matches it. why dont you compare ff15's combat to bloodbornes? you both gave them similar scores. you picked the low point of witcher to compare the high point of ff15! it would be like comparing bloodbornes story to witchers.
and yeh, the relationship of noctis and his friends is nice. refreshing even for a final fantasy game. but its not on naughty dog's level of storytelling (imo). its enough to make me really root for them though. not just in game. but out of it. as i believe that this was make or break for the final fantasy franchise. if they had spent 10 years on this, the countless millions, and then released a bomb, it would be over. at least as we know it being a single player narrative rpg. so i think subconsiously i want this game to be better than it is so a part of my childhood doesnt end. surely i'm not alone in this thinking?
but ultimately is the combat and storytelling really that great that you can gloss over all the other stuff i mentioned? is it that great that its comparable to witcher3, uncharted4, bloodborne, gta5? i'm only comparing them because they all have elements that ff15 tries to catch up to. the open world. the story telling. the combat. i just dont know if it does it better than any of them. so why the similar scores. and honestly, the problems with the story are the least of my concerns.
anyways, i'll leave it at that. i'm arguing about someone's opinion and a symbolic star. maybe i should go give the game another shot instead.
Deputy Dangle
Member
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