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[Roubjon]

https://youtu.be/KftPFPcu_K0?t=8111

EZA E3 Final Fantasy 15 Impressions: at the 2 hr 15min mark

Ben, if you get a chance, could you let us know whats changed in the final game compared to these impressions which had you worried about what you saw? From what I've played, the things you mention in your own review, and Damiani's tweet, a lot of the things that had you worried, are still in the final version of the game. What made you go from being concerned... to giving it a 9/10?

Dude, he thinks the game is a 4.5 / 5 and I don't understand why you are so adamant about him explaining himself even further. I've played it for 10 hours so far and can easily see where he is coming from. It isn't perfect, but in this case the whole is greater than it's parts and it really shines in a lot of ways. He's explained himself so many times at this point.

BTW, great review Ben.

 

[LycanXIII]

They also need to sort out a microphone for the back row so we can hear what's happening properly

I think either Blood or Damiani posted in this thread saying they're getting one.

 

[Mista Koo]

They also need to sort out a microphone for the back row so we can hear what's happening properly

That I have no hope for. Although I often wonder what kind of conversations/jokes we're missing out on.

I randomly stumbled upon this heartwarming moment a while back

 

[Bosman]

Bosman achieved a new level of sketchiness with that FFXV vs. TLG bet. I wanted to see Damiani lose when they first made the bet, but now knowing that Bosman had some foreknowledge about TLG back then that no one else did, I think Kyle definitely deserved to lose.

Just to clear my name a little here, Damiani and I originally made that bet back in 2014. It was because Damiani was acting so confident that The Last Guardian would be delayed that I offered him the opportunity to double down. But then The Last Guardian got delayed.

Also,

Oh and while Bosman doesn't understand video game genres, Captain Toad is a puzzle platformer.

This is simply wrong. According to my programming, Captain Toad is strictly a puzzle game.

 

[luchadork]

Dude, he thinks the game is a 4.5 / 5 and I don't understand why you are so adamant about him explaining himself even further. I've played it for 10 hours so far and can easily see where he is coming from. It isn't perfect, but in this case the whole is greater than it's parts and it really shines in a lot of ways. He's explained himself so many times at this point.

BTW, great review Ben.

am i not allowed to discuss an eza review in the eza thread? cmon man. dont be like that. i've made 3 posts over 3 pages. one with my opinion. one about ben's opinion. and now one comparing damiani's opinion. is that too much? i know this thread can be a bit sensitive about critical thoughts towards the eza crew. but i feel like i'm being polite and am not overly repeating myself.

 

[SweetJohnnyCage]

Bosman achieved a new level of sketchiness with that FFXV vs. TLG bet. I wanted to see Damiani lose when they first made the bet, but now knowing that Bosman had some foreknowledge about TLG back then that no one else did, I think Kyle definitely deserved to lose.

He did?

 

[Holundrian]

From all the years of gaming, I feel like the core folly for people that get really bothered by game scores is that you can't really do many things with them that you'd expect to be able to do to a number(math, logical operations, etc). People mistake them as quantified measures of a game's quality/enjoyment, but given that the process is in no shape or form scientific(like with sone) it doesn't really work.

So in that way people get bothered by what they perceive as logical inconsistencies because they attempt comparisons/break downs and other operations between these data values that don't really work out all that well.

I think it would make those people happier if they'd think of scores more like a resonance rating. And I say this as someone that is/was one of these people in the sense that I don't like game scores because of their limitations and somewhat in my opinion poor information value. Because I somewhat believe that there's a variability aspect to them deeply rooted in their subjective nature.

But more importantly I just heavily dislike game score discussions that center around seeking justification. Rarely have I ever found those enlightening nor all that healthy to read :-x.

I enjoy people reconstructing their perspectives more. Which in a sense is similar but the motivation shaping that discussions generally feels/felt more pleasant to read/fruitful for insight.

*sorry for rambling X_x*

 

[Kneefoil]

He did?

In the latest group stream he admitted that he thought TLG would surely come out earlier because it was scheduled for Live with YouTube Gaming, or something like that. Apparently the day later the game was delayed and removed from the LwYTG schedule.

Just to clear my name a little here, Damiani and I originally made that bet back in 2014. It was because Damiani was acting so confident that The Last Guardian would be delayed that I offered him the opportunity to double down. But then The Last Guardian got delayed.

Also,

This is simply wrong. According to my programming, Captain Toad is strictly a puzzle game.

Just to be clear, I'm not really mad or anything. It was one of the funniest parts of the stream when you came clean.

 

[Ultimadrago]

The Boss Man. I await the results of the "Marbles" shenanigans come the Meet-and-Greet!

 

[SweetJohnnyCage]

In the latest group stream he admitted that he thought TLG would surely come out earlier because it was scheduled for Live with YouTube Gaming, or something like that. Apparently the day later the game was delayed and removed from the LwYTG schedule.

Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn!

 

[LiquidSolid]

Speaking of FF, I may have over levelled myself. I've been having too much fun with the side stuff and now I'm 15 levels above the main story. Whoops.

I also only have enough space to save 5 more Prompto photos. Feels bad.

Yeah, I'm going to get there pretty soon too. I seem to save 2-3 photos at the end of every day and the days pass quick, so they build up fast.

And yeah, I'm over levelled too.

am i not allowed to discuss an eza review in the eza thread? cmon man. dont be like that. i've made 3 posts over 3 pages. one with my opinion. one about ben's opinion. and now one comparing damiani's opinion. is that too much? i know this thread can be a bit sensitive about critical thoughts towards the eza crew. but i feel like i'm being polite and am not overly repeating myself.

Digging up negative impressions from almost 6 months ago and then trying to use it and Damiani's opinion to question why Ben's opinion changed comes off as less of a discussion and more of a crusade.

E3 is a notoriously bad environment to play games in, is it really that difficult to believe his opinion was different once he got to sit down with the full (polished) game at home?

 

[luchadork]

From all the years of gaming, I feel like the core folly for people that get really bothered by game scores is that you can't really do many things with them that you'd expect to be able to do to a number(math, logical operations, etc). People mistake them as quantified measures of a game's quality/enjoyment, but given that the process is in no shape or form scientific(like with sone) it doesn't really work.

So in that way people get bothered by what they perceive as logical inconsistencies because they attempt comparisons/break downs and other operations between these data values that don't really work out all that well.

I think it would make those people happier if they'd think of scores more like a resonance rating. And I say this as someone that is/was one of these people in the sense that I don't like game scores because of their limitations and somewhat in my opinion poor information value. Because I somewhat believe that there's a variability aspect to them deeply rooted in their subjective nature.

But more importantly I just heavily dislike game score discussions that center around seeking justification. Rarely have I ever found those enlightening nor all that healthy to read :-x.

I enjoy people reconstructing their perspectives more. Which in a sense is similar but the motivation shaping that discussions generally feels/felt more pleasant to read/fruitful for insight.

*sorry for rambling X_x*

i agree with you. 9 times out of 10 discussing anything on the internet is a fruitless experience. people dont change their opinion so why even bother engaging? it normally just ends up in an argument since you cant tell someone that their subjective thing is right or wrong. its incredibly hard to prove/disprove sentiment. and i think its why, more and more, the internet is separating itself into little echo chambers where you are only exposed to people you agree with [looks at /r/the_donald].

so then you have to ask, why even put an opinion out there if its not to be discussed/deconstructed? does that make a review a one way conversation, the ultimate internet opinion that will never change? are they just to be consumed and not engaged with?

 

[luchadork]

Digging up negative impressions from almost 6 months ago and then trying to use it and Damiani's opinion to question why Ben's opinion changed comes off as less of a discussion and more of a crusade.

E3 is a notoriously bad environment to play games in, is it really that difficult to believe his opinion was different once he got to sit down with the full (polished) game at home?

how about you let him answer that instead of being super defensive about it? jesus christ. you guys sometimes. i cant bring up his own fucking comments now? the same comments he made in his final review?

 

[Chuck]

Podcast upppppp for patrons.

 

[Holundrian]

i agree with you. 9 times out of 10 discussing anything on the internet is a fruitless experience. people dont change their opinion so why even bother engaging? it normally just ends up in an argument since you cant tell someone that their subjective thing is right or wrong. its incredibly hard to prove/disprove sentiment. and i think its why, more and more, the internet is separating itself into little echo chambers where you are only exposed to people you agree with [looks at /r/the_donald].

so then you have to ask, why even put an opinion out there if its not to be discussed/deconstructed? does that make a review a one way conversation, the ultimate internet opinion that will never change? are they just to be consumed and not engaged with?

Maybe not quite what I was speaking to(I was thinking more on why the score comparison to other games don't really work nor does the break game down by aspects and comparing them to "reverse engineer" scores to seek a mistake in the "score engineering").

But my comment on this, I think the issue is about approach. People that go into a discussion with the aim to reach a conclusion/consensus rarely ever leave happy in my experience. It's often more enjoyable/enlightening when discussions become more about broadening perspective agreeable and disagreeable ones(although I admit some perspectives, referring largely to non game related ones, are hard to compartmentalize).

That's also the difference I was referring to, trying to find justification for a score seems to me more often than not motivated by reaching a conclusion, whereas trying to make perspectives understandable seems to me more about broadening one's view.

It gets muddy when you're kind of forced into the conclusion thing(like with politics, they're conclusion motivated by necessity). I don't think that approach is all that great for games.

I much prefer the allies to have different opinions on games since it's more valuable to our audience.

Hehe me too, looking forward to Frame Trap .
Also gotta appreciate games that can bring forth many different perspectives and that's not to take away from games that garner somewhat universal praise/respect or dislike. Games like FFXV make the gaming Landscape more varied even if I personally might not enjoy the game which is always a good thing in my book.

 

[Grayfox341]

Luchadork I think you're good man. You're just trying to understand. I get it.

As far as the E3 impressions, it's a very straightforward answer. I spent about 90 minutes with the game at E3 and 50 hours with the game during the review. Some of the things that bothered me in the impressions are still there, but a lot aren't. There are soooo many good things I saw during the review that I didn't see during the impressions. The game runs 1000x better than it did during E3. When I preview something or look at something in advance, it's never a final opinion. It's just an opinion of what I have at the time. It could change, dramatically. I had a positive opinion of No Man's Sky before it came out, negative one after reviewing. Negative impression of Hitman during a preview, positive one after release.

Concerning Damiani's opinion, I guess I'm not sure what to say. That's how he feels and we talked about it a little. I agree with him on a lot of things, disagree with him on others. I'm really glad he has a different opinion since it will make for a great Frame Trap. I much prefer the allies to have different opinions on games since it's more valuable to our audience. I don't in any way think Damiani is "wrong" or anything like that. Completely respect his view.

 

[luchadork]

Maybe not quite what I was speaking to(I was thinking more on why the score comparison to other games don't really work nor does the break game down by aspects and comparing them to "reverse engineer" scores to seek a mistake in the "score engineering").

But my comment on this, I think the issue is about approach. People that go into a discussion with the aim to reach a conclusion/consensus rarely ever leave happy in my experience. It's often more enjoyable/enlightening when discussions become more about broadening perspective agreeable and disagreeable ones(although I admit some perspectives, referring largely to non game related ones, are hard to compartmentalize).

That's also the difference I was referring to, trying to find justification for a score seems to me more often than not motivated by reaching a conclusion, whereas trying to make perspectives understandable seems to me more about broadening one's view.

It gets muddy when you're kind of forced into the conclusion thing(like with politics, they're conclusion motivated by necessity). I don't think that approach is all that great for games.

look, i agree with you. my discussion started with me giving my perspective on the game. i wasnt questioning whether anyone should enjoy the game or not. i just questioned whether the name of final fantasy was letting some of the afore mentioned low points (that both ben, damiani, and i have mentioned) be judged a little less harshly. i was coming at it from a point of trying to understand someone elses perspective. and yeh it was based around the score. but more than that it was whether the reputation of a game affects said score. there really wasnt any discussion or 'understanding' on that point beyond people getting angry and defensive. so you're right. these discussions do end up being pointless and ultimately you have to ask yourself why even bother engaging.

as for your first point. why even give something a score then if its not to place it on some sort of comparative scale? it makes the score meaningless if you dont compare it. its just arbitrary at that point. obviously you cant compare a 90 rated driving game to a 90 rated fighting game. but when there are elements that do cross over thats where this 'score engineering' comes in.

As far as the E3 impressions, it's a very straightforward answer. I spent about 90 minutes with the game at E3 and 50 hours with the game during the review. Some of the things that bothered me in the impressions are still there, but a lot aren't. There are soooo many good things I saw during the review that I didn't see during the impressions. The game runs 1000x better than it did during E3. When I preview something or look at something in advance, it's never a final opinion. It's just an opinion of what I have at the time. It could change, dramatically. I had a positive opinion of No Man's Sky before it came out, negative one after reviewing. Negative impression of Hitman during a preview, positive one after release.

Concerning Damiani's opinion, I guess I'm not sure what to say. That's how he feels and we talked about it a little. I agree with him on a lot of things, disagree with him on others. I'm really glad he has a different opinion since it will make for a great Frame Trap. I much prefer the allies to have different opinions on games since it's more valuable to our audience. I don't in any way think Damiani is "wrong" or anything like that. Completely respect his view.

fair enough dude. like i said before i respect your opinion. i was just trying to why you (and others) scored it the way you did. honestly you couldve just said "i enjoyed the shit out of it. 9 out of 10. deal with it." and you wouldve been right but thanks for actually engaging in a discussion about it.

 

[Holundrian]

as for your first point. why even give something a score then if its not to place it on some sort of comparative scale? it makes the score meaningless if you dont compare it. its just arbitrary at that point. obviously you cant compare a 90 rated driving game to a 90 rated fighting game. but when there are elements that do cross over thats where this 'score engineering' comes in.

Well that's the thing about game scores :-x , they are arbitrary and meaningless in a way. At least I think so based on the discussion they generally produce, the absolute failure of providing universally understandable information(given that they produce lots of confusion and a disconnect between people) and the high and various variability factors that can influence them.

They're really more of a fun thing, I think(although I don't think they're that fun:-x).

They become somewhat more useful and usable in a comparative scale once you established various consistency variables(the reviewer, their preferences, values, large dataset, etc etc) but at that point you kind of have a discussion on perspective anyway. You just have have an unpleasant version of it x_X that focuses on numbers in ways that rarely ever make sense.

 

[WarRock]

Oh, there is the Bosman x Jones bet for Telltale's GotG too. Damn, what a week for gambling.

 

[Already Torn]

NeoGAF is featured on this weeks podcast. I kept imagining Neoxon bersting into the room to explain the full Marvel/FOX video game situation.

...And then I would berst into the room to clarify that Polygon simply confirmed that Groot and Ant-Man will be playable, and assumed based on that that there won't be many X-Men if any.

 

[LiquidSolid]

how about you let him answer that instead of being super defensive about it? jesus christ. you guys sometimes. i cant bring up his own fucking comments now? the same comments he made in his final review?

Super defensive? Dude, you're the one being super defensive. Some of us obviously just thought it was weird that you brought those things up when Ben already gave you a lengthy response explaining why he liked it so much despite the problems he had with it. And when we brought that up, you accuse us of being super defensive, sensitive of being critical of the EZA crew and so on. Calm down, you're throwing gasoline on a non-situation.

 

[Servbot24]

Easy Allies Patreon also got a shoutout on today's Kinda Funny gamescast fwiw

 

[SunDimension24]

Speaking of FF, I may have over levelled myself. I've been having too much fun with the side stuff and now I'm 15 levels above the main story. Whoops.

I also only have enough space to save 5 more Prompto photos. Feels bad.

Yeah watch out with overleveling. Its great for tough side quest and hunts if you want to do them but bad for story quest. I was at level 49 in the later part of the game and some story battles that should have been challenging were quite easy to take care of and kinda felt underwhelming as a result.

Also only keep pictures of ignis. Problem solved

 

[Chuck]

Jones arguing against reporters doing their jobs is some high grade nonsense.

 

[Already Torn]

Jones arguing against reporters doing their jobs is some high grade nonsense.

He was pretty chill about it this week

 

[IdreamofHIME]

Jones arguing against reporters doing their jobs is some high grade nonsense.

Not as much nonsense than the Mario RPG rant. Shooting down Huber for saying there's as many Mario RPGs as Mario Platformers, there's like only 5 more platform games than the dozen Mario RPGs released.

 

[Servbot24]

Jones arguing against reporters doing their jobs is some high grade nonsense.

Well it does suck that the job of journalists is to ruin the jobs of developers.

 

[Burt]

Ian

If you're reading this

Give us that Westworld season end wrap up group discussion Easy Update

Plz

I know there are some Allies on this train

 

[Naythan]

That Final Bets marbles question is a total set-up, right? Kyle never stated there would be any marbles in the bag at all.

 

[ito007]

That Final Bets marbles question is a total set-up, right? Kyle never stated there would be any marbles in the bag at all.

What makes it interesting is that the bag could come empty but be filled up later by people at the meet & greet. On the other hand it could also be given filled with anything else. The mystery!

 

[Holundrian]

Having Ben's FFXV stream in the background early in the morning(5AM) while doing some php schoolwork and hearing his comments on cold steel is warming my heart , didn't even have to lift a finger yet xD.

Also going to say trails is a series so full of cool context and subtleties and talking/reading some of the gaf trails experts talking about it has been blowing my mind on all the different things they picked up from little hints/teases/stuff disguised as world building and the possible meanings for the overarching narrative.

I'm making my way slowly through CSII right now and while I think the game has many flaws/design decision that feel like such a step back compared to prior titles within the series, it's still probably going to end up as my favorite game this year right after Persona 5/The Witness.

 

[Chuck]

That Final Bets marbles question is a total set-up, right? Kyle never stated there would be any marbles in the bag at all.

The reason the bet is sooooo good is because it has so many layers to it. The bag labeled "marbles" could come filled with marbles. It could come empty. The crowd could add marbles to it or take them away. We also don't know the size of the bag, where it will be located, or even if it'll be sealed.

It's amazing.

 

[Elfforkusu]

The reason the bet is sooooo good is because it has so many layers to it. The bag labeled "marbles" could come filled with marbles. It could come empty. The crowd could add marbles to it or take them away. We also don't know the size of the bag, where it will be located, or even if it'll be sealed.

It's amazing.

Also, the only one who can rig it is Bosman.

Though I for one trust Kyle, in this one very specific instance

 

[WarRock]

Also, the only one who can rig it is Bosman.

Though I for one trust Kyle, in this one very specific instance

Is it? The bet didn't specify they had to call out numbers. One could bet "it will have less marbles than it had when you put it up" or something like that.

 

[Karu]

Well it does suck that the job of journalists is to ruin the jobs of developers.

Marketing is not the job of developers so this does not really apply.

Edit: Well, it can be. But it certainly not their first priority.

Jones opinion on the matter can be a bit childish at times (In the sense of "dont ruin Christmas, man!" :-( ).

 

[ElephantShell]

PSA: FFXV playtime clock does NOT stop on the pause screen. It does however stop if you go to the PS4 home menu. In case anybody is anal about RPG playtime tracking like I am.

 

[Budi]

Ian

If you're reading this

Give us that Westworld season end wrap up group discussion Easy Update

Plz

I know there are some Allies on this train

Oh hell yeah! I hadn't thought of it myself, but I want it now.

 

[Aters]

Regarding E3 FFXV representation, I remember the game crashed multiple times in 90 minutes. Hard to give a positive impression on that one. Despite all this it still won the best RPG of E3. Also, anyone who followed the game closely knows that the game only came together in the last three months, which was why they delayed the game. Just dig in any old FFXV thread and make a comparison yourself. The improvement is huge! I also want to point out that Ben's opinion on the game didn't change overnight. He talked about FFXV in the Frametrap episode right after he returned from Japan where he played the latest build of the game at TGS. Anyone who watched that episode should not be surprised when Ben gives the game a high score.

Just to clear my name a little here, Damiani and I originally made that bet back in 2014. It was because Damiani was acting so confident that The Last Guardian would be delayed that I offered him the opportunity to double down. But then The Last Guardian got delayed.

Also,

This is simply wrong. According to my programming, Captain Toad is strictly a puzzle game.

You can't clear your name, you got a tag under it.

 

[SprachBrooks]

At what period of the week do they usually record the Easy Allies Podcast? I know they release it on Thursdays...but is there much discussion around FFXV?

I haven't had the chance to listen to it yet.

 

[Hasney]

At what period of the week do they usually record the Easy Allies Podcast? I know they release it on Thursdays...but is there much discussion around FFXV?

I haven't had the chance to listen to it yet.

Tuesday night they record it, and no, no discussion at all. It's news-based, not what people have been playing.

 

[Mista Koo]

This is simply wrong. According to my programming, Captain Toad is strictly a puzzle game.

Sure. At least Portal is still not a puzzle game

 

[LiquidSolid]

Oh man, I love how Jones goes in on the X-Men movies. While I do like X-Men 2 and DoFP, I've still always thought they're TERRIBLE X-Men movies.

 

[Karu]

Do we have any idea when Kyle Moon Brandon Sun will drop on us from the heavens?!

 

[Hasney]

Do we have any idea when Kyle Moon Brandon Sun will drop on us from the heavens?!

Last one was a Saturday, so a safe bet again I reckon.

 

[Karu]

Last one was a Saturday, so a safe bet again I reckon.

Ah thanks, coolcoolcool!

Spoiler

I need it naaaaaauw! :-(

 

[Hasney]

https://twitter.com/SophieEZAPup

 

[BlackBuzzard]

Move aside everyone Sophie is going to steal the spotlight.

 

[Mista Koo]

Do we have any idea when Kyle Moon Brandon Sun will drop on us from the heavens?!

They shot it Tuesday night.

 

[Deimo5]

I love betting specials. Ultima Brad. Sophie. Jones' bathroom. New era hype.

 

[GlamFM]

Enjoyed the talk about my jingle that no one listened to A LOT