Edge #304 - The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild special
- Thread starter Visualante2
- Start date
Yeah. When did Edge start? 93 I thought I saw. Super Metroid robbed, if so. Chrono Trigger too.
I know this is a throw-away example...but Awakening makes my blood boil, so I'll let off a little steam...
Doesn't help that most people in the press seem to be like most people on GAF and to not have played FE before Awakening and have no reference point to what is so god awful about that game. New Fire Emblem makes my skin crawl like nothing else, but I dodged the Other M bullet, so that could be why. Conquest had good gameplay and at least, I think, it got more backlashes about how dumbed down its story and world was, in line with Awakening. And at least the next entry is billed as a "return to consoles," so hopefully they get some story/world/character ambitions again. Sucks that they wasted the premise of Conquest and its gameplay on such aggravatingly bad characters/world/story. Could have been the best thing to the lord character since Ike.
Jawbreaker
Member
They beat it already.
I'll take care of those for ya
Goldeneye - 5
Resident Evil 4 - 9.5
Metroid Prime - 10 GOAT
Didn't they retroactively change GE and RE4 to 10s?
This
but so many people didnt like motion controllers a dismissed it, I thought it was one of the most fun Zelda games
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
The beetle is one of the best items.
Dark Cloud
Member
I didn't know he was a reviewer that's why I asked. Now I know ronaldthump is a reviewer.
Kevin Shields
Member
Yea my hype has died down since dungeons are my favorite part of the series. I think it will be great, but I wish they were sprawling with the number of them. Even if they were not traditional.
brandonh83
Banned
Yeah, there's bits of Twilight Princess' opening that I love, like when you first become the wolf and going through Hyrule Castle in the Twilight realm, but I thought Skyward's opening was very fitting being that chronologically it's the very beginning of the story so I was okay with it being long. It had better characters and story/cutscene direction I felt, and I loved the mystery behind it all, Link's dreams and whatnot. It had that feeling that something big was about to happen.
I didn't really care about much going on in Twilight Princess' opening in the village and with the kids and stuff, so that didn't really help. I guess the difference is that I liked what was going on at the beginning of Skyward but was less interested in Twilight Princess' opening.
Eh nothing really happened in Majora that interested me, I much preferred the actual lore and story in Skyward but I'm a bigger fan of the Link/Zelda story than Link in spinoff lands.
I attribute this to it being on Wii and being sub HD. The art style is incredible and not at all dull, but it did look washed out especially playing on an HDTV.
If Skyward Sword got a remaster it would look something like this:
Absolutely gorgeous game held back by hardware.
The reactions to them will be interesting. Some previewers have stated that they didn't get to the first dungeon til they were 20-25 hours in, but also that they were occupied with the overworld, towns, sidequests etc. This seems like a departure from past games where what compelled you was going from dungeon to dungeon.
brandonh83
Banned
I don't see how. The game was big and there was a lot to it. There was plenty of exploration. It introduced each new area in a linear fashion, but it has no less exploration than any other installment.
Thought these were atmospheric and fun. I liked the design of them, the panicked nature and the brief change of pace that they provided. But that's gonna be subjective so to each his own.
My only real issues with Skyward were the item notifications that would repeat, you'd have to read through item descriptions many times even though you already have and know what it is, and Fi does pop up too much. But those were minor quibbles for me in the grand scheme. Luckily Breath of the Wild doesn't seem to have such minor annoyances.
It had some of the best gameplay and by far the most fleshed out story of any Zelda at the time. Definitely a 10/10 Zelda.
GiantBreadbug
Member
Have I been playing the same Zelda dungeons as everyone else? Lots of dungeons I've played in Zelda (with a few exceptions in each game) have been either too short or too repetitive for my tastes. I'm excited to have lots more puzzle solving scenarios scattered about as shrines, and if the traditional dungeons that do exist are thematically satisfying and have cool bosses, that's pretty much all I care about.
When I think of dungeons in Zelda games, I really just think of some standouts. If they managed to make the dungeons in BotW all as satisfying as my select favorite dungeons from other Zelda titles, then I have no problems.
When I think of dungeons in Zelda games, I really just think of some standouts. If they managed to make the dungeons in BotW all as satisfying as my select favorite dungeons from other Zelda titles, then I have no problems.
brandonh83
Banned
I guess for me as a longtime fan, the establishing nature of the game, how you see how so many tropes of the series came to be, was far more satisfactory than the story in any of the others. It did so many brilliant things like with the
Deku Tree for example and explained the reincarnation (for lack of a better term) of Link, Zelda and Ganon and why they're forever destined in different generations to play those roles
That stuff was just awesome to me.
Kevin Shields
Member
I wish we had a comparison of length because I'm imagining there like deku tree or jabu size and shorter than anything in twilight. If they are amazing each then maybe it won't sting too bad
I've always found the dungeons on handheld games very short. Mostly because upon entering the room there's a view of where I need to go what I should do almost immediately. So yeah, it would be surprising to me if dungeons in a console Zelda game were short or if the whole experience wasn't memorable.
Silent_Ocarina
Member
I feel somewhat similar. My favorite Zelda games often have the weakest dungeons (Majora's Mask, Wind Waker). I do enjoy the dungeons very much, especially compared to dungeons of other games, but I find most of my enjoyment coming from what I do between the dungeons. I honestly hardly remember a lot of the dungeons I've played other than a few standouts, as you said.
MetalliCabombination
Member
That from the mag itself?
10 seems a little generous in that case but eh...they did give SS a 10.
brandonh83
Banned
I don't think we know enough about the dungeons in this game either way as nobody has talked about them. Which I personally find... well, not frustrating, but I would like any potential concerns to be eased. Like if some impressions came and said yeah the dungeons are great with awesome puzzles I'd be like, alright cool. I don't really want anything spoiled exactly, but I would like some reassurance. It's one of the very few things that I'm potentially concerned about as it would be a major bummer for me if the dungeons didn't deliver. I don't need like 12 dungeons or something but I would like more than say Majora's Mask and not super weak ones like Wind Waker's.
Read the first two words of the post again
Read the first two words of the post again
Jawbreaker
Member
A lot of people managed to get a copy early. You are talking about Horizon, right?
Exterminieren
Banned
I'd advise anyone sounding off about their Skyward Sword score to dig out the text of the review. You may or may not agree, but they argue their case compellingly enough that you can't really quibble with it.
Dark Cloud
Member
That's fine if he's telling the truth.
Jawbreaker
Member
Yeah, I've always enjoyed the painterly look that Skyward Sword has going for it. It's a treat on Dolphin.
MetalliCabombination
Member
Porcile
Member
ur2edgy4EDGE.
Goldeneye was a great achievement and packed with ridiculous amounts of content and replayability for a console shooter, or any shooter for that matter.
MiamiWesker
Member
Whats this about dungeons. My fears coming true. 
OrbitalBeard
Member
Whats this about dungeons. My fears coming true.
If you want 8+ dungeons that take 2+ hours to finish, then yes, lower your expectations for that aspect of the game now. Doesn't mean the dungeons in this game aren't great, but they appear to be very different.
However, you said in another thread you want lots of
populated towns with lots of stuff to do in them
Whats this about dungeons. My fears coming true.
Yeah its a fear coming true unfortunately. I wasn't too bummed about there only being five or six, but if they're small, thats a shame.
Sounds like the rest of the game makes up for it though, but we'll see. I know a lot of people in this thread are jumping on the runaway hype train, as is tradition on GAF, but I'm taking a more cautiously optimistic response, especially because open world games aren't usually my thing.
The game looks good, really good. But I'll leave it to myself to decide if its great.
Whats this about dungeons. My fears coming true.
There's definitely going to be a backlash to this aspect of the game.
I doubt it will be a problem considering the nature of the overworld and how some areas are dungeon-like. Past Zelda games relied on the dungeons to push the narrative and gameplay forward and were focal points of item usage.
In this game, you get key items early and can use them pretty much anywhere, which means the entire overworld is open to puzzle solving and labyrinthine areas.
Based on what I've read of the review, they've struck a good balance. Regardless, there will be complaints about this. I still think the total amount will be 5 or 6.
Yeah. Think it was pretty clear they were going to come true ever since they started talking/showing much about the game and their design direction. Game was never going to be what I think I want; the reaction to SS was too "I don't want a game like this at all" from too many corners for it to be a SS, TP follow-up.Whats this about dungeons. My fears coming true.
That's even how Aonuma frames it, as starting from a point of external and internal critique that Zelda had lost its sense of exploration.
This is the exploration heavy, non-linear, harder Zelda a large chunk of the audience has been clamoring for for a long time. Nintendo seems to have done a good job of making their mark on open world gaming. They've taken that direction for the series and run with it.
We're in a case of "I hope that I appreciate what they did do, that don't miss too much what I wanted since 2013-2014 or so, and that despite my fears and anxieties, this, in its own way, satisfies my Zelda lust," as I see it.
I think it is a safe bet the game is going to be great. I just hope that it lives up to what I play Zelda for, despite my doubts, or that it rises above my doubts and pushes a new vision of Zelda on to me.
Because frankly, if it is a good game but not a good Zelda in my eye, I'm going to be quite disappointed.
Dark Cloud
Member
This is not OoT of time. Get over the dungeon stuff. I love everything I hear about this game and all the changes. There are over 100 shrines and I'm going to find all of them and solve all the puzzles in them.
People are tired of the same dungeon formula of get to dungeon and find only weapon(s) to use for dungeon. This was a changed that was needed and it's opened up. If it wasn't a good change it would not be getting praise from all these reviewers.
People are tired of the same dungeon formula of get to dungeon and find only weapon(s) to use for dungeon. This was a changed that was needed and it's opened up. If it wasn't a good change it would not be getting praise from all these reviewers.
DecoReturns
Member
I don't think the new dungeon format is gonna affect the score much. In previous Zelda games, spent the 1st half of the dungeon searching for that one "Item"you need.
Since the game is open in every way possible. You don't really need a said item so In a way it's cuts the dungeon a bit. They could've made it longer, but perhaps that would've just made it drag.
Since the game is open in every way possible. You don't really need a said item so In a way it's cuts the dungeon a bit. They could've made it longer, but perhaps that would've just made it drag.
- Too much hand holding on first hours made me wanna go to Nintendo HQ and slap whoever responsible.
Now that I think about it, I never particularly cared about the amount of dungeons in a Zelda game. But all the same, I've associated more dungeons as meaning more time you get to spend playing the game, and more opportunities to go through the story beats and what not. Where basically, you go the dungeons in previous entries, and not much else. But if there's less than usual, that seems completely fine for me personally because of the enormous world having an insane amount of stuff to do, which of course includes the shrines. Ultimately I find it hard to complain about, unless you absolutely crave dungeons over everything else when it comes to a Zelda game.
OrbitalBeard
Member
While I completely agree with you, I also think it's fair for people who love the traditional 3D Zelda formula to be disappointed. What I'm hoping is those same people will be open to this game and give it a chance, regardless. Nintendo may end up surprising them.
Dark Cloud
Member
It's fine to be disappointed if you're expecting the same Zelda formula, but Aonuma kinda said it was going to change 4 years ago. I think when those who are disappointed play this game they'll say "man why was I disappointed?!? This is Zelda! It's an amazing game even with the formula changing".
At this point, the difference between a dungeon and a 'dungeon-like' area of the game seems to be whether or not it's in an enclosed space, if it has a dedicated separate map and if there's a major boss battle. Otherwise there isn't much distinction between a dungeon and a section of the overworld with powerful enemies and challenging puzzles.
OrbitalBeard
Member
For sure. Knowing this game has The Witness-style environmental puzzles in the overworld is incredibly exciting.
Im_So_Pringles
Member
MM only had 4 dungeons, and we all know how that game turned out. The number is arbitrary; it's what is within them that counts. Also, 100+ shrines in the game which are basically miniature dungeons. If each one takes an average of 3 minutes to complete, that's over 300 minutes (5 hours) of gameplay. More than enough puzzle solving.
It's not so much the amount itself.
It is a) dungeons are said to be shorter, b) there is more overworld to dungeon content in the game balance than before, c) there is a new item/gadget and puzzle approach, d) there are many shrines, but to many of us those are an unknown quantity as to how we'll like the bite-sized approach, e) it is also unclear how much the overworld play will make up for the lower balance of dungeons.
C, D, and E are the central questions to me. And I'm only going to be able to answer when I play it. And I care a lot. So I am anxious. There are good reports but they aren't conclusive to me.
OrbitalBeard
Member
Question: what are you feelings on Majora's Mask? The game had great, lengthy dungeons, but there were only four of them and made up a small portion of the game.
Neoleo2143
Member
Edge thought the dungeons were extremely well made though and they seem to reflect why the dungeons in Zelda are good. It seems the only reason to complain is the amount and even then the kind of dungeon that Edge describes seems to be of an amount similar to other Zelda games. While the shrines handle the others kinds of dungeon.
The review talked about 'build-ups' to dungeons, which I assume are story based missions related to the different Hylian tribes and are probably going to be as long as the dungeons themselves. We've had build ups to dungeons in past Zeldas before but it seems they're extending that approach since the overworld can have just as much physics-based puzzles as a dungeon.
Again, it's a fine criticism to air if one is very particular about what constitutes a proper dungeon experience, but it's fair to say they've chosen to break from that formula.
There are more story-heavy areas in the game related to the dungeons which are under embargo along with villages.
Jawbreaker
Member
To be fair, those dungeons were large and complex. It's a masterclass in dungeon design.