ProfessorMoran
Member
Hopefully Yosp has a big input into the console, I'm sure the first party devs would like more fast ram.
Edge: PS4 to launch in Europe in early 2014, US/JP 2013, more powerful than next Xbox
- Thread starter miksar
- Start date
Hopefully Yosp has a big input into the console, I'm sure the first party devs would like more fast ram.
It's not about want. It's about cost. It's about heat. It's about reliability. As a good friend ProElite put it:
Sony cannot afford an RROD.
Believe-you-me, if they want to shrink this machine, they will switch to Wide IO. GDDR5 is temporary. It's like a muscle car, going the way of the dinosaur.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
Doubling the cost of your ram just so half of it can be dedicated to the OS is a waste of GDDR5. Cost reducing quicker to become more profitable should allow for a shorter generation, new tech/architectures are always going to be better than any attempt at "future-proofing".
iamvin22
Industry Verified
a wide IO of what other than gddr5 to support those bandwidths im curious?
2.5D stacked DDR4 would be my guess.
And what are they going to do 4 years from now with that RAM that they are not doing now?
Please explain insights into this new ram-demanding upcoming technology.
Aren't your mr. insider? ;p
Have you heard ANY inklings of a possible RAM bump from your sources?
If anything, it's okay to release a bit later in the region you're strongest in. You wanna be there day 1 for the regions you need to be most competitive in, which for Sony, is North America.
iamvin22
Industry Verified
isnt ddr4 just now going into production, how reliable is it down the line?
The Last Guardian PS4 launch title confirmed! :B
...I don't even know what I want this gen, I've barely got any PS3 backlog *shrug*
I think they will drag the disclosure of these specifics to E3. If they think PS4 can be produced with 5-6GB GDDR5 by the time of production then that is what they will say in the announcement.
Truespeed
Member
Now, why would you dedicate half of your RAM it to the O/S. A game will use what it needs and the O/S will use the remaining heap for whatever else you want to do. Being able to effortlessly multitask between games and apps would be amazing.
Truespeed
Member
Keep those affordable 4K panels happily fed.
Don't know regarding reliability. But it definitely is the "future" no?
Services will play a very big role next-gen. I think both Sony and Microsoft realize that the living room is kind of getting 'crowded', so I think both of them will be trying to provide the best platform for content consumption and playback.
I'm very eager to find out the role of Gaikai in the next PlayStation.
pharmboy044
Member
Sorry, double post.
pharmboy044
Member
I seriously doubt that you will be able to have PS3 users see their PS4 friends. It currently doesn't work with PS3 to Vita. Maybe Vita to PS4?
LOL, extra RAM won't really help with 4K. A 1080p Framebuffer is what 16MB? 4K framebuffer is 4 times that. You won't have enough GPU power to render at that resolution anyway.
People say the same thing every generation.
BruiserBear
Banned
4K is going to be as common as native 1080p games were on the PS3.
When?
Nice.
Codeblew
Member
*clap* Well played.
Codeblew
Member
These consoles are going to be colder than my prom date compared to PS3/360 as it is. I doubt RROD will be an issue for either console.
If it is going away, why not start with 8GB? If they do replace it with something else, it will have to have compatible dynamics either way.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
And GDDR5 aren't magic-cubes that automatically increase performance, just wedging more of them in for bullet-point parity isn't enough, there needs to be a reason to add that much in and raise the price AND potentially hurt your long-term cost reduction and profitability.
"More bandwidth for the apps" is not a good arguement to justify the cost.
XtremeXpider
Member
What? how many chips are needed for 6GB GDDR5? It is insane...
I have another option... what if the "insider" is not a techie and he was confused about 8GB in dev kits vs 4GB final hardware?
yosp tweet.
Shuhei Yoshida ‏@yosp
Just listened to an emergency episode of Podcast Beyond!...making predictions about the event, and singing
:O
Neat. I listened to that episode as well. I'm basically Yoshida.
2-3 generations down the line probably
Strawman aside, that's how specs work. More of something good is good, unless you are arguing that it is overkill, which I will deal by the end of this paragraph. But, firstly, your points thereafter are false. As far as cost reduction goes, stacking and 2.5dtsv are the future, at least for a number of years; a more valid point is that 2013 is too early for this. And to come back to your initial point, even 8GB DDR3 has some advantages over 4GB GDDR5 as far as performance goes; by having 8GB with GDDR5 equivalent bandwidth, you get the best of both worlds.*
In addition, having parity on ram allows for greater appeasement of developers: Keep developers happy, you get better ports at the very least, and by large avoid unhappy consumers.
If it is a question of economics>performance: note that every PlayStation non-portable console thus far has been based on a loss leading model. Arguably they can't afford to do this this gen, but with a subscription model, perhaps they might be more willing. Nonetheless, this is a better argument than: 'lol, extra ram is a waste, and doesn't affect performance enough', which is patently false.
As far as manufacturing goes, from what I can deduce, it's going to be pretty tight. I don't think they will make it. I think it will be 4GB. But I'd be more than happy to be wrong. But there will still be a £399 console or less regardless of the ram arrangement. Only competition with the wiiu's pricing makes me think they might opt for something over £400.
edit: *I would opt for 4GB GDDR5 over 8GB DDR3 given the choice - having read up on how bandwidth starved the PS3 was compared to the PS2. Regardless, Ideally, what they want is more bandwidth & more ram.
Ol No Bones
Banned
I have a weird feeling Durango is better is more powerful than orbis but I only think that because its what I think.
Take a bow son.
Brad Grenz
Member
At this point it would be cheaper to double the number of GDDR5 chips they're using per unit to reach 8GB than it would be to reengineer the APU and motherboard to add an additional memory controller and memory buss for DDR3.
For the PS4 to have RAM size parity with the Xbox, they don't need to add another 4GB. The Xbox has 5GB available for games, so Sony would just need to add 1.5GB.
Not that I think there is any chance the specs will leap up from 4GB this late in the day. If Sony are planning a late 2013 launch, they have to be producing final chips ASAP. Making a significant change like doubling the RAM must have severe impact on their schedule (not to mention costs, margins and yields).
Not that I think there is any chance the specs will leap up from 4GB this late in the day. If Sony are planning a late 2013 launch, they have to be producing final chips ASAP. Making a significant change like doubling the RAM must have severe impact on their schedule (not to mention costs, margins and yields).
5GB and a bit? or 6GB?
There are rumours that Durango OS has near 3GB ram allocated for OS.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
Yes, stacking is the future, but lets say you bet on that, then what if it gets delayed... you're stuck with more chips in a more expensive configuration at the mercy of waiting for stacking.
Of course there are some advantages, but there are always going to be tradeoff's between performance and cost, and within the last few pages some have suggested using 4GB of GDDR5 for a larger OS/Apps, and I'm saying throwing in 4GB of GDDR5 more for that alone is a waste.
Sure they could subsidize it, but they would make more money quicker if they kept the specs as they are and subsidized it.
I want to see Sony thrive, and increasing complexity and the BOM "just cause they can" is an arguement some are boarding on... and it's not a good one.
Honestly, I wish DDR4/stacking had happened sooner, everyone would have benefited.
nelsonroyale
Member
Aye, considering DDR4 is even released yet!
That's not how these things work. Devkits come out, someone rocks the boat, and we all find out sooner or later. I highly doubt anyone, but Kaz and the design team have an inkling of what is to come.
I have a theory: Sony will aim for 6 GB of RAM at 176 GB/S
According to the article, Sony is aiming to 'match' Microsoft in pure RAM numbers. The cheapest method to achieve parity is to design a machine with 6 GB GDDR5. Long term, however, this becomes an expensive proposition as stacking / 3D / and Wide IO RAM hit rock bottom prices.
I believe Sony has designed two machines. I predict launch units will use GDDR5, however, in 6 months to a year, Sony will switch to Wide IO / 3D RAM as it becomes the more affordable, less power hungry, and cooler proposition.
At launch, I predict machines will all use GDDR5 because it is the cheapest alternative. However, early 2014, when stacking becomes an affordable standard, I believe Sony will switch to the second, more cost effective machine and engineer whatever has to be done to achieve the intended target specifications.
SirIgbyCeaser
Banned
More ram would help 4k, and therefore help sony's bottom line. It could be a justified investment. As could backwords compatibility.
But I don't run a home console company. And I donno the real ins and outs.
I have a slight prediction sony will under manufacture for the demand of PS4, because they need to tighten their belt as a company.
But I don't run a home console company. And I donno the real ins and outs.
I have a slight prediction sony will under manufacture for the demand of PS4, because they need to tighten their belt as a company.
Read my above post: an actual developer talked to me about the proposed setup, so its not some pie in the sky dream.
TacticalFox88
Banned
Remember about 7 months or so ago where the idea of 8 GB of RAM in Next Gen consoles was "laughable"?
Yeah, those were the days.
Yeah, those were the days.
Exactly. Microsoft is currently doing that in the 360 Slim.
176 GB/S is nearly 3 GB of RAM allowed per frame. If a developer can't be happy with that, they should figure out a new field.
There were discussions about speeds etc being too different, but as mentioned, MS did this and throttled back the speeds on the Slim to match the original machine. So it's doable.
Just seems like stacked ram is so near yet so far. It is a shame to miss out on having more ram by a narrow margin, but they can't delay the machine.
The GDDR moving to stacked idea is a good one I think.
Sorc3r3r
Member
Why add RAM?
The actual rumored ram set up already gives 3gb\f.
It's to make the port work more easy?
It's future-proofing the console?
What?
It's only going to add heat, cost, power consumption at the console...i don't get it.
The Sun is also British. Did you see their article about the new consoles? It was fucking laughable. That Edge article is the only thing that has suggested Sony will put more than 4GB in the PS4. Everything else,e very rumour and source has said 4GB for a while now.
I honestly just think it was in reference to the PS4 originally targeting 2GB and them having to ramp it up to 4GB.
You will fit in here just fine lol.
I don't think anyone expected cheapass DDR3 RAM to be fair. I expect most were expecting some kind of XDR2 type ridiculously expensive ram so quantity would be limited.