michaelius
Banned
Better looking multiplatform games have pushed a lot of people into buying xbox this gen and gave microsoft a lot of software sales from people owning both consoles.
Edge: PS4 to launch in Europe in early 2014, US/JP 2013, more powerful than next Xbox
- Thread starter miksar
- Start date
Better looking multiplatform games have pushed a lot of people into buying xbox this gen and gave microsoft a lot of software sales from people owning both consoles.
This 3GB ram allowed per frame that people keep bringing up, isn't it the case that 3D pipelines are more than just what appears on screen?
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
No, its me not quoting your wall of text cause I'm posting on my phone and its a hassle.
When arguing whether an extra 4GB is needed, answering with OS/Apps is not enough of a rebuttal. I suspect the vast majority want a specific 8GBs of GDDR5 for no other reason than the its the same number as Durango... and don't care about the negative effect it could have.
But I hope stacking/DDR4/etc... I just doubt it's where it needs to be based on various comments, but I could be wrong.
1. You've lost me. You appear to be arguing against somebody else.
2. Why wouldn't you compete with a direct competitor? On the box PR, and, reviewers support in comparison features will all take into account the X3, no?
I don't know. A nerfed machine for 2 out of 6 years is one thing when it is in the later stages of a generation, but six months... followed by 8 years of underutilisation.
It's not that they won't do it. But sucks for 90% of the base.
This is all strategic. This is the only way Sony can launch within a decent time frame. Shit if you really wanted, we could wait till 2015 and garuntee ourselves 4+ TF.
Dull overstatement aside, if Sony really do align themselves to a staggered launch, we could yet see enough stock.
2013 is so the wrong year unfortunately; 2014 is the year to be. But competition means they kind of have to have a 2013 launch, don't it?
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
I just merely cited some of the examples of why people are saying there is a need for the ram increase.
Why spend an extra billion when you can easily spin the advantage you already have?
DDR4 isn't a magic solution. Getting it to run at 174 GB/S will be a tough cookie to crack, however, it is the smart alternative decision.
merely?
Perhaps you should tailor arguments to posters you are actually spending time arguing with.
(2) Why indeed? Sony have a few interesting things to think about.
Horse Armour
Member
Is there any reason this is going to launch in 2014 in Europe? This thing isn't even using any cutting edge components.
Wolves Evolve
Member
I've been pondering this. Europe with a soccer game is huge money they will want, so presumably, they believe making an impact in the US is more important. Maybe they want to take the fight to MS - it really seems futile but thats why I'm not Kaz.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
merely?
Perhaps you should tailor arguments to posters you are actually spending time arguing with.
(2) Why indeed? Sony have a few interesting things to think about.
I've argued point 1 since you quoted my post. What solid game-changing performance enhancing reason would Sony spend double for ram for all the potential harm it could cause.
You justified them spending it for bullet-point parity, which is just about as useless as "makes the OS better".
Backfoggen
Banned
But.. I was told 2GB will be the absolute maximum of what we can expect.
My bad, i meant to say that transtor sizes cant be mixed [posting @ 3AM = bad]. Entire X720 chip will be 28nm, which will include 120mm2 of ESRAM. Size will approach the size of radeon 7970 chip.
I give up. Maybe later, you'll reflect on the entirety of the argument presented rather than hap dash efforts like so. This appears to be more about arguing than anything else.
People have zero fucking idea how big these machines are going to be. b ub ub u bu b why cna'tz we havz 4 TF1!!
Depends on whether it's the right kind of ESRAM. Right?
I remember lots of people saying 4GB is never going to happen, 2GB is what we'll get. OH man. I can't believe people.
The fun part about these predictions is that they were somehow based on the idea that technology doesn't advance.
2 GB is what we need now and 4 GB is for the future... 8 GB is just dumb.
Memory is not going to be holding back Orbis for anything, especially 4k. For 4k, there will simply be not enough GPU power.
Not to mention that Sony's solution right now for 4K is to optimize 1080p picture in movies for it to be easily upscaled to 4K resolution with increase of fidelity, as there is no standard that supports 4k video.
And just of the though that they will supposedly lose few billion just so 5 years from now they can push 4K is ultimately showing lack of basic understanding of how consoles sell. 5 years from now, you want rock bottom price of the console, since core already got them and price becomes much more important factor.
gundamkyoukai
Member
I know we won't be getting 8 GB but if Sony could get 6 GB of GDDR5 i feel that would be perfect .
You can have 1GB for OS ( they could always cut down later on ) and have 5 GB for games.
If the rumors of MS OS being just under 3 GB , Sony can be even for the amount games can use.
Either way if they stick with 4GB i not to bother to tell the truth .
You can have 1GB for OS ( they could always cut down later on ) and have 5 GB for games.
If the rumors of MS OS being just under 3 GB , Sony can be even for the amount games can use.
Either way if they stick with 4GB i not to bother to tell the truth .
Sigh... Sony has always had somesort of rambus tech in there consoles check out all the. new stuff rambus are doing www.rambus.com if not check out what i already posted before: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Rambus-Shows-World-s-Best-RAM-Technology-292885.shtml
I have a feeling the could use some form of this...
I have a feeling the could use some form of this...
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
I think part of the discussion in these threads should be how big gaikai is going to be for sony. Im talking with no speciaist knowledge, but isnt is possible, using the same tech for video streaming, to stream levels of a game in real time? when you load a game you are only loading data from a disc right? imagine having a game's base assets downloaded like a demo, then as you pass each section of the game, another part of the game is streamed to your device. All this would need is a larger ram pool.
I understand it would be murder for those with bandwith caps, but the idea isnt out the realm of possibility right?
I understand it would be murder for those with bandwith caps, but the idea isnt out the realm of possibility right?
Betrayer of hope
Banned
I won't be suprised to see sony using rambus tech again. They have been working with rambus since the ps2 days.
Rambus could provide the sort of RAM sony is looking for in terms of bandwidth, low latency, less power/heat consumption and less pins/pcb costs
Try reading the OP next time.
You're telling me. Somehow games have enough ram already. Somebody should go tell Dice, Crytek and others off for asking for 8GB.
It's a shame cause either way, there'll be crappy comments.
- 4gb? The f***? I wants the 8GB ram, slow, less bandwidth, whatever.
Or
-8GB? so useless having extra ram. Wasted resources you cantz use.. Sony so stupid yo.
Unfortunate.
High bandwidth + large size as far as performance goes.
Argue about manufacturing, realistic goals, price, etc.. But 8GB @176GB/s >4GB GDDR5>8GB DDR3.
SirIgbyCeaser
Banned
So Rumbas is having a talk on
... Would be good for PS4.
... Would be good for PS4.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Sony aren't going to Rambus again, not after paying through the nose for XDR in PS3 and having to pay part of the costs for development of 1Gbit XDR chips at Elpida.
They won't go to Rambus for the same reason they won't go to Nvidia, the cost to benefit ratio is poor, and the competitors offer more value for money this time. Stacked DDR4 or GDDR5 offer plenty of bandwidth for 1080p gaming.
They won't go to Rambus for the same reason they won't go to Nvidia, the cost to benefit ratio is poor, and the competitors offer more value for money this time. Stacked DDR4 or GDDR5 offer plenty of bandwidth for 1080p gaming.
The same people said Vita won't have backwards compatibility with digital PSP games unless it is a similar architecture which mean it wont be that much more powerful. In the end we got both, different architecture that's powerful and backwards compatibility. NeoGAF is being extremely cautious these days. People keep forgetting Bluray and Cell were huge expenses back when PS3 launched and Sony are not introducing anything crazy like that any more.
SneakyStephan
Banned
There'll always be something...
2 years ago 28nm chips were so close yet so far, now it's stacking, next year it'll be 20nm chips for another big boost in performance/watt, after that maybe memristor memory if IBM is still working on that? (they were supposed to come out with the first consumer cards for cameras at the end of this year and then on to ram and hdd replacements)
edit: apparently HP is the biggest force behind memristors and they are delaying it by a year because Hynix is refusing to manufacture it before then (seeing most of their business is fabricating flash memory for a ton of companies ,which memristor memory will wholly replace).
Betrayer of hope
Banned
Well XDR was much better than ddr3 in 2005 and it was the only memory providing the necessary bandwidth to the cell at the time. So sony had no choice then.
At the moment there's plenty of competition. But if rambus has the breakthrough stacking RAM sony is looking for then what?
People on forums have been theorizing 4 GB GDD5 is better than 8 GB DDR3, but why, then, would Sony, the people actually making the hardware, tell to developers, the people actually working with the hardware, they're still trying to match the performance of 8 GB DDR3 if it is already better?
Maybe it is better but they want Orbis to leave Durango in the dust.
?
Rambus don't make ram.
Plus the entire industry is headed that way - DDR4, or stacking, 2.5d tsv etc. Samsung, Micron etc..
Sony should opt for competition so as to get a good deal.
Unless, Rambus offer something cheaper?
maquiladora
Member
check out the platstation meeting thread.
Where do they say that?
I think sane consensus is in the direction of PS3 Slim (not slim slim) kind of size. The chips being used aren't as power hungry as the Cell and RSX were at launch so they save space on the board, space on the cooling, space on the PSU.
Also the PS3 Fat had an almost perfectly normal 5.25" BluRay drive in but that has also shrunk down now in the newer slims.
Honestly I don't know.... maybe more RAM could give the advantage in the tex res? I can't to say in what exactly could change to have more RAM; probably because 174GB is not that much which expected from GDDR5 bandwith?
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
I was thinking PS3 SlimOne size, hopefully the heat, noise & YLOD wont pop up either, and please Sony Piano Black & stylish with blue lights :-D
Yeah that size, and those issues shouldn't be there at launch. It was all that power needed in the PS3 Fat that caused the heat and ylod problems so with that power requirement dropped it should be ok.
And if they much have lights on when in use let me turn the buggers off when watching a film.
paradise_circus
Member
could'nt there exist a special contract between rambus and sony?
rambus sold more than 200 million of their ram solutions because of the playstation.
rambus sold more than 200 million of their ram solutions because of the playstation.
SneakyStephan
Banned
The bigger the better... need space for proper cooling in there even if it is pretty low power hardware.
I want something like the second revision ps3 fat in size, mine is dead silent.
I want something like the second revision ps3 fat in size, mine is dead silent.
"Importantly, we’ve learned that Sony has told developers that it is pushing for the final PS4 RAM to match up to Microsoft’s 8GB."
My reading. They want the PS4 RAM to match up to the Microsoft RAM. How does it need to match it? The speed? The size? Power consumption?
I don't know, which is why I used the encompassing word "performance".
Rambus could give Sony their tech for free, and it would still be more expensive. The problem is economies of scale and ability to pit two suppliers against each other.
endlessflood
Member
I still think that sounds like the 2GB GDDR5 --> 4GB GDDR5 jump that Sony has (supposedly) already made.