Launchpad already said something along the lines of how they have some kind of power role so they definitely will RC as something.
Election 2016 [Mafia] | Everlasting GOPstoppers
- Thread starter Ourobolus
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Launchpad already said something along the lines of how they have some kind of power role so they definitely will RC as something.
L_P not chiming in is worrying. If he's scum maybe he's crossing his fingers we go for banana instead of him without him having to implicate himself or something.
That she can become one of us is one of the hardest things to confirm by far. The fact is that whichever the result of the "plan" is, we won't be able to tell for sure like you seem to think whether she's telling the truth or not, and it won't give us any solid leads or reads, not even on her or mafia roles.
- Until she dies, we can't tell if she can or will turn into a GOP aligned player. Since there's chance involved, it might not even be worth betting on that possibility.
- If there's no double kill tomorrow, the real SK could be a 3-shot or whatever role and he might just withhold from using his power tomorrow and make us waste a vote by voting her out, then resume using his power.
- If there *is* a double kill tomorrow (I don't think there will be if we follow the plan - mafia ain't stupid), all we'll know is she most likely didn't perform the second kill last night... and that's it. The conversation will be around her again.
It's a terrible plan. It tells us nothing and requires that we assume too much.
That she can become one of us is one of the hardest things to confirm by far. The fact is that whichever the result of the "plan" is, we won't be able to tell for sure like you seem to think whether she's telling the truth or not, and it won't give us any solid leads or reads, not even on her or mafia roles.
- Until she dies, we can't tell if she can or will turn into a GOP aligned player. Since there's chance involved, it might not even be worth betting on that possibility.
- If there's no double kill tomorrow, the real SK could be a 3-shot or whatever role and he might just withhold from using his power tomorrow and make us waste a vote by voting her out, then resume using his power.
- If there *is* a double kill tomorrow (I don't think there will be if we follow the plan - mafia ain't stupid), all we'll know is she most likely didn't perform the second kill last night... and that's it. The conversation will be around her again.
It's a terrible plan. It tells us nothing and requires that we assume too much.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
BSP "becoming town" is such hogwash. Would a neutral role say anything else? Voting is the foundation of mafia: even a vanilla townie has power with their vote. You take that away, you better give them something to compensate for that. Yes this is a crazy game and a voteless player can be some kind of biting social commentary on the state of the world, but from a gameplay perspective it's just... boring.
Like i said , i will give BSP the benefit of the doubt for today, as i see L_P more of a question mark than she is.
Thats all you have to say ?
This is such an empty statement. We'll be in the same position tomorrow, by giving her that benefit today you are not guaranteeing any solid info tomorrow! Will you give her the benefit of the doubt tomorrow again? Did you even read my post?
I read it and no i wont
Lone_Prodigy
Member
Anyway I'm sure scum is just sitting pretty waiting for the day to end so they can bemoan the fact they "didn't have enough time to unvote". Apparently all my subtle hints towards having a non-vanilla role were for naught; I bet scum picked up on it though, and they'll either kill me tonight, or spare me so I look like I'm lying (assuming of course I survive the day).
Fireblend makes a lot of sense, so he's probably getting killed tonight. If only we still had our doctor.
Fireblend makes a lot of sense, so he's probably getting killed tonight. If only we still had our doctor.
Ok, I'll try this again.
So, the plan is that the blocker (if there even is one) blocks BSP. Here's some scenarios:
1. There is a double kill tomorrow. This can mean:
1.1 That we had no blocker after all
1.2 That BSP isn't the vig/sk
2. There is no double kill tomorrow. This can mean:
2.1 That the actual vig/sk isn't an idiot and withheld his night action to implicate bsp
2.2 That the second kill was a one-shot ability
Neither scenario (1 or 2) confirms bsp's claims about being able to turn into GOP, or anything else that we don't already know about her.
How are you going to tell between these scenarios? Why are you giving her the benefit of the doubt at all today? It's incredibly likely scenario 2.1 will happen and we'll be pretty much info-less tomorrow.
So, the plan is that the blocker (if there even is one) blocks BSP. Here's some scenarios:
1. There is a double kill tomorrow. This can mean:
1.1 That we had no blocker after all
1.2 That BSP isn't the vig/sk
2. There is no double kill tomorrow. This can mean:
2.1 That the actual vig/sk isn't an idiot and withheld his night action to implicate bsp
2.2 That the second kill was a one-shot ability
Neither scenario (1 or 2) confirms bsp's claims about being able to turn into GOP, or anything else that we don't already know about her.
How are you going to tell between these scenarios? Why are you giving her the benefit of the doubt at all today? It's incredibly likely scenario 2.1 will happen and we'll be pretty much info-less tomorrow.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
Haha, this is just as bad as El Topo's "I want you to come clean." Is the R word really so hard to say?
I posted my reads a few pages back. I pointed out suspicious bandwagon behaviour. Go back and read them if you think I'm not contributing.
I hate being in that Position and voting for you but hell i know ist tough since i am having my doubts now , but fuck it i will stand my ground now sorry L-P but the way you handeled day 2 just made me very unconfortable. Any thoughts on the remaining Players ?
Day 2 Ends at:
It makes sense, hell ! i dont know anymore : I
Bananaspaceprincess
Neo Member
4. You lynch me today. Learn nothing bc all was out in the open already. You wasted a day chasing me and have to start from scratch.
Nope. The conversation has been all about you today. You flip, and we have very solid reads on people because they were either defending you or going against you, and they're made responsible for their words.
In fact, no other "flip" will yield as much information as yours will, because of how much we've focused today talking about you.
Bananaspaceprincess
Neo Member
Point 3 sorry. Thought your last addition was a new number 
And even if you are not willing to go this way today don't make the mistake not to at least consider this!
And even if you are not willing to go this way today don't make the mistake not to at least consider this!
Lone_Prodigy
Member
I hate being in that Position and voting for you but hell i know ist tough since i am having my doubts now , but fuck it i will stand my ground now sorry L-P but the way you handeled day 2 just made me very unconfortable. Any thoughts on the remaining Players ?
Day 2 Ends at:
"Uncomfortable", really? I think I've been totally honest and diplomatic today, yet the whole Launch thing buried me no matter what I did.
Point 3 sorry. Thought your last addition was a new number
And even if you are not willing to go this way today don't make the mistake not to at least consider this!
If you truly want to defend yourself I suggest you address these 2 points, as well as my previous "scenarios" post which you already attempted to defend without much success (as I said, we'd learn a ton from what others have said of you today):
1) I disagree. Sure she's voteless now but if she's telling the truth she won't be (or shouldn't be) later in the game. At that point out number of votes will be more important so it's false to claim that lunching her is entirely without risk.
2) Agreed, lynching her will give us the most info from today.
I don't think I'd lynch someone just for point 2, but honestly it seems really likely to me that we found our SK, so I'm voting to prevent more NKs.
I also don't like the blocker plan as there are too many variables - seems like nothing but a chance for Mafia to catch a potential blocker?
Sure it isn't, but are you *that* confident that L_P is scum? Because if he isn't, you're removing one valid town vote anyway, which is much worse than removing someone we know for sure to be voteless, that might just maybe have a possibility of becoming GOP some day =/
Here's another thought:
Imagine that no double kill occurs tonight, that we had a blocker, and that he blocked bsp.
If she's *not* the sk, the real sk/mafia could have withheld their vote (as I already said the most likely scenario in my mind) to not only make us lynch her tomorrow delaying us from catching actual scum, but also to draw out who the blocker is, and lure him into revealing himself. Then we'd be out both one neutral who ended up being of no use to us *and* a PR.
Blocker, if you exist and the scenario above occurs, please, don't reveal yourself tomorrow.
Imagine that no double kill occurs tonight, that we had a blocker, and that he blocked bsp.
If she's *not* the sk, the real sk/mafia could have withheld their vote (as I already said the most likely scenario in my mind) to not only make us lynch her tomorrow delaying us from catching actual scum, but also to draw out who the blocker is, and lure him into revealing himself. Then we'd be out both one neutral who ended up being of no use to us *and* a PR.
Blocker, if you exist and the scenario above occurs, please, don't reveal yourself tomorrow.
My vote is in BSP?
Oh you edited Ouro's quote to make it look like I voted L_P. Uhh...
The second killer could also potentially only kill on odd numbered days or something like that so even if there is only one kill tomorrow, there are a number of situations that could explain it besides a roleblocker.
As a result of this I've started to lean towards BSP to vote for as if there is only one kill tomorrow, people will focus on her.
Bananaspaceprincess
Neo Member
Please don't lunch me Splinter, I'm not that tasteful!! 
As for my defense I have nothing to add to the things I already said. Of course your posts make sense and if my posts during the day did not make you trust me I'm sure nothing I would say now would. The only thing I can promise if I live till tmr is that I will be as active as possible and help finding scum.
For now I don't have anything to say
As for my defense I have nothing to add to the things I already said. Of course your posts make sense and if my posts during the day did not make you trust me I'm sure nothing I would say now would. The only thing I can promise if I live till tmr is that I will be as active as possible and help finding scum.
For now I don't have anything to say
It does quite bother me though that I am not able to counter vote L_P in my defence!! And I'm blaming you Ouro!
Lone_Prodigy
Member
The fact that CornBurrito seems so intent on sparing BSP so we know her true colours has likely revealed himself as some sort of PR. So that's another scum target.
Hyperactivity
Banned
Just want to warn everyone that if I'm changing my vote, it will be in the last half hour, as I'll be free only then
I still have my vote on l_p for now, but the role block on bsp plan has a lot more holes than I originally thought. As of now I'm officially unsure
Go for someone I suspect to be scum, or for the neutral hiding something from us
I still have my vote on l_p for now, but the role block on bsp plan has a lot more holes than I originally thought. As of now I'm officially unsure
Go for someone I suspect to be scum, or for the neutral hiding something from us
The thing is who can we go for if not those 2 everyone else just put down their votes down and finding someone who is NOW more scummy is very very unlikely.
Ah, I see what happened. I mixed up your name with Kalor, who's the one who voted L_P right above my post and I meant to also direct that post to. Sorry, honest mistake, I've been typing a lot today.
Fireblend one point I wanted to disagree with in your list of reads (thanks for these btw).
El Topo - you point out his idea to narrow down voteless, and suggest Mafia wouldn't have offered this idea as its "too helpful" (I guess?). Well I disagree on this point. It's exactly the kind of advice I loved to give last game - someone is bound to say it eventually so might as well take the credit.
I'm not sure how much trust you afforded based on that alone, but it stood out to me as being something I don't agree with
El Topo - you point out his idea to narrow down voteless, and suggest Mafia wouldn't have offered this idea as its "too helpful" (I guess?). Well I disagree on this point. It's exactly the kind of advice I loved to give last game - someone is bound to say it eventually so might as well take the credit.
I'm not sure how much trust you afforded based on that alone, but it stood out to me as being something I don't agree with
I agree. It's definitely between those two now.
I maintain bsp is our best bet today for the holes and risks I an others have made apparent.
Hyperactivity
Banned
I'm going to be voting one of bsp or l_p, don't worry
I'm sure DR players at least can see the funny side to this mistake
CornBurrito
Member
I've thought about this. And I think that if she isn't the SK, she may actually be the silencer. I mean that makes sense thematically. The one without a voice (vote) can make another person voiceless.
This is too much of a stretch IMO. Seems like a desperate way to defend her.
Can you address my points above? Particularly the holes in the plan and why I think bsp's lynch would yield us the most info for tomorrow?
CURRENT VOTE TALLY:
bananaspaceprincess (5)
Palmer_v1
El Topo
Never Forever
*Splinter
Lone_Prodigy
Fireblend
Lone_Prodigy (6)
Fireblend
Hyperactivity
nin1000
SalvaPot
CornBurrito
CornBurrito
El Topo
Kalor
Hyperactivity (0)
Kalor
SalvaPot
Fireblend (0)
nin1000
bananaspaceprincess
CornBurrito (0)
nin1000
Kalor (0)
Palmer_v1
7 votes are needed for majority.
bananaspaceprincess (5)
Palmer_v1
Never Forever
*Splinter
Lone_Prodigy
Fireblend
Lone_Prodigy (6)
Hyperactivity
nin1000
SalvaPot
CornBurrito
El Topo
Kalor
Hyperactivity (0)
Fireblend (0)
bananaspaceprincess
CornBurrito (0)
Kalor (0)
7 votes are needed for majority.
CornBurrito
Member
I've actually covered that scenario. Here's a quote I made earlier:
"The issue, and why I didn't want to bring this up earlier, is if scum or the real SK realize this would happen. Then they simply withhold a kill to frame her. However I kind of just realized that that doesn't really matter. BSP is (in my mind) neutral right now. And can't vote. Losing her due to her being framed tomorrow doesn't hurt town. In fact, that means scum/SK traded a kill in order to get a neutral player lynched, and a player who was prime lynch material already. Seems like a shit trade. "
Also if they do actually decide to make that trade, the solution is simple. If we find 1 kill only tomorrow, and then vote off BSP, and then she turns out to not be the SK, we need to look HARD at anyone who voted for BSP today. That includes me to be honest. The real serial killer would almost certainly be pushing for BSP's lynch today. Or they are letting me and nin do the work.
Hyperactivity
Banned
Nobody hammer, let's let the day run its entire course
Lone_Prodigy
Member
lol I'm one vote from turbo
thanks Launchpad
thanks Launchpad
Hyperactivity
Banned
I guess that makes sense
Sk not killing on the safer nights only helps them
But if we don't have a role blocker?
Hyperactivity
Banned
Cabot, given that it's nearly time, where are you planning to vote?
I think this is too anti-tempo. Again, there will be no way for us to know whether that happened or we actually blocked bsp's kill attempt. And we'll miss out on the info she'd yield. And we'll spend tomorrow talking about her again. And we might expose our blocker, if there even is one.
Bananaspaceprincess
Neo Member
You want some last words?
I still am not defending myself anymore because everything is said.
From my perspective as a player of course I want to play a little longer Also I had to spend a lot of energy today in defending myself and not find suspicious behavior in other players posts. So I think I would actually only start actually playing tmr. I got to say if I were you, and wasted a day on a probable death end I would want clarification as well. But since my life is on the line here, of course I don't want you to go down that road.
I still am not defending myself anymore because everything is said.
From my perspective as a player of course I want to play a little longer
Also I had to spend a lot of energy today in defending myself and not find suspicious behavior in other players posts. So I think I would actually only start actually playing tmr. I got to say if I were you, and wasted a day on a probable death end I would want clarification as well. But since my life is on the line here, of course I don't want you to go down that road.- Status