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[Burny]

2.3's drastically reduced scope, Braben/Sandro's unwillingness to share any REAL information on why the changes were made, and FD's general lack of information on their roadmap, is infuriating.

I wouldn't give a damn about the roadmap if the released features were at least competent, instead of invariably riddled with outright baffling game design choices.

Instead we have hour clocks for fucking inventory management and symmetric and full Wing payouts vs. gimped rubbish in multicrew, because - bohoo - newbs could have potentially gotten credits fast. What is this rubbish? Game design by angst.

 

[Hylian7]

I wouldn't give a damn about the roadmap if the released features were at least competent, instead of invariably riddled with outright baffling game design choices.

Instead we have hour clocks for fucking inventory management and symmetric and full Wing payouts vs. gimped rubbish in multicrew, because - bohoo - newbs could have potentially gotten credits fast. What is this rubbish? Game design by angst.

The irony is they say noobs could potentially get credits fast, yet they still can. With the current bounty payouts, you can pretty quickly ramp up in low-medium RES in just your Sidewinder and get yourself a Viper, then Vulture to whatever you want beyond that.

 

[Not Spaceghost]

It's like I said before, considering how powerful engineers can make you and the fact that they are essentially a credit less grind it makes getting tons of credits fast for a big ass A-rated ship practically meaningless.

A g5 ship outclasses a standard a-rated ship to the point that the g5 will feel practically unkillable to the A-rated one.

 

[Effect]

So finally got rid of my Python for good. Been on a off and on pattern with that thing for a while but when I sat down I really could not think of a reason to keep it. Nothing seemed to balance or override my frustration with it. I tried just focusing on one ship for everything, to have a "main" ships, but at least for me specializing the ships and then moving between them based on mood has been working out the best for me the last several weeks when I've played. Took a while to get there though.

So my ships are looking like this. As a result I have been enjoying the game a lot more. Similar to how I used to enjoy it. For some reason once I felt the need I had to be in a Python, chasing the ever big ships just because I guess, that enjoyment took a dive.

Federal Gunship or Vulture - for RES, Nav beacons
Asp Explorer - Cargo missions
Dolphin - Passenger missions - Really liking the design of this. Don't have to move around the modules on the Asp to do these missions now.
Diamondback Explorer - potential exploration - The buff this thing got has been appreciated.

All things I wanted and tried to do with just the Python and to limited success. All those ships have significantly lower rebuy cost as well. Moving in and out of these ships at least keeps things visually more interesting as well as I play. So if I get blown up for trying something with the Vulture it doesn't bother me at all. I live longer with the Gunship or at least I feel like I do and I feel more comfortable just fully outfitting it for pure combat. Not worrying about other jobs is helpful. I always felt I couldn't or shouldn't outfit the Python solely for one job just in case. That might just have been my big mistake but could never shake that feeling since that is how I used the Cobra and Asp originally and felt I needed to tackle the Python that way.

Maybe I'll return to trying doing everything with one ship if I manage to get enough money to outfit an Anaconda. That thing certainly has enough slots or ideally I'll somehow have enough to have a Anaconda for the trading and a Corvette for combat. The Corvette is the ship I really want after having a LOT of fun in the Vulture and Gunship. Would like to just get to a point where I can just have one.

 

[Mengy]

More well deserved heat on Frontier for the state of the game: It feels like somone is doing their job wrong.

Well, yes. It is.

I think the crux of the problem is that Frontier's management doesn't play their own game. Their design decisions continuously reinforce this assumption, they make choices that on paper might seem like good ideas but in the context of the game they've created really don't make sense. Over, and over, and OVER again.

What really disturbs me though, and I hate to point him out because he is a very nice guy and I like him a lot, but the lead designer Sandro Sammarco seems to be developing Elite very similar to how he designed Haze for Free Radical Design on the PS3. Meaning adding additional features to a game that desperately needs it's core developed first. With Haze, instead of devoting time to make the main game great they spent dev time adding tons of other features and gimmick stuff that marketing could use to sell the game. In the end people were hugely dissatisfied with the lacking gameplay, Haze tanked, and Free Radical Design went under due to poor sales. Ubisoft had some part in allowing that to happen but Sandro was the lead that planned it to happen.

Sound familiar?

I don't want Elite to continue down the same road that led Haze to becoming a half finished but "feature rich on paper" game. You can't talk about it on the Frontier forums though because as soon as you criticize Sandro or bring up Haze they lock threads or delete posts. This design philosophy is killing the Elite community, and it's hurting the franchise terribly, and in my opinion either Sandro needs to change his roadmap to address the core of the game NOW, or Frontier needs to make some drastic changes in personnel before it's too late. Stop worrying about selling DLC so much, that will sell itself if the core of the game is fun and engaging, but if the players leave the game in disgust then no DLC will be selling.

 

[Hylian7]

I think the crux of the problem is that Frontier's management doesn't play their own game. Their design decisions continuously reinforce this assumption, they make choices that on paper might seem like good ideas but in the context of the game they've created really don't make sense. Over, and over, and OVER again.

What really disturbs me though, and I hate to point him out because he is a very nice guy and I like him a lot, but the lead designer Sandro Sammarco seems to be developing Elite very similar to how he designed Haze for Free Radical Design on the PS3. Meaning adding additional features to a game that desperately needs it's core developed first. With Haze, instead of devoting time to make the main game great they spent dev time adding tons of other features and gimmick stuff that marketing could use to sell the game. In the end people were hugely dissatisfied with the lacking gameplay, Haze tanked, and Free Radical Design went under due to poor sales. Ubisoft had some part in allowing that to happen but Sandro was the lead that planned it to happen.

Sound familiar?

I don't want Elite to continue down the same road that led Haze to becoming a half finished but "feature rich on paper" game. You can't talk about it on the Frontier forums though because as soon as you criticize Sandro or bring up Haze they lock threads or delete posts. This design philosophy is killing the Elite community, and it's hurting the franchise terribly, and in my opinion either Sandro needs to change his roadmap to address the core of the game NOW, or Frontier needs to make some drastic changes in personnel before it's too late. Stop worrying about selling DLC so much, that will sell itself if the core of the game is fun and engaging, but if the players leave the game in disgust then no DLC will be selling.

If the bolded is true, that is incredibly fucked up and sounds like something a two bit asset flip Steam developer would do.

 

[Not Spaceghost]

More well deserved heat on Frontier for the state of the game: It feels like somone is doing their job wrong.

Well, yes. It is.

I am sooo glad more people are taking this stance. I love elite so much but i cannot bring myself to play it much anymore because everything about the game is a hurdle to get to what I actually want to do and none of those hurdles are interesting.

Also I love that powerplay is so misunderstood and clearly not done by more than like 5% of the player base that they think it's a grind.

It's not even a grind, it's not even interesting. The money payout from the salary is so low it's not worth keeping your merits up and the only reason people do it is for the modules. All you need to do is pledge, wait 3 weeks, spend 3-4hrs getting 750 merits and then wait for the week to end and you're done.

That's not a grind, that's just not playing the game for a month lmao. Goddamn powerplay is SO FUCKING BAD!

 

[zorbsie]

I used powerplay once when I first started getting into Elite. Was in a viper at the time. I was docked when I activated it. I didn't realize at the time that the faction I sided with was against the faction of the station I was on. As soon as I took off the station attacked me and blew me up. Happened 3 times before I decide to quit powerplay. Never went back.

 

[wesleyshark]

I used powerplay once when I first started getting into Elite. Was in a viper at the time. I was docked when I activated it. I didn't realize at the time that the faction I sided with was against the faction of the station I was on. As soon as I took off the station attacked me and blew me up. Happened 3 times before I decide to quit powerplay. Never went back.

I have yet to try powerplay

 

[Anton Sugar]

I don't want Elite to continue down the same road that led Haze to becoming a half finished but "feature rich on paper" game. You can't talk about it on the Frontier forums though because as soon as you criticize Sandro or bring up Haze they lock threads or delete posts. This design philosophy is killing the Elite community, and it's hurting the franchise terribly, and in my opinion either Sandro needs to change his roadmap to address the core of the game NOW, or Frontier needs to make some drastic changes in personnel before it's too late. Stop worrying about selling DLC so much, that will sell itself if the core of the game is fun and engaging, but if the players leave the game in disgust then no DLC will be selling.

I wouldn't give a damn about the roadmap if the released features were at least competent, instead of invariably riddled with outright baffling game design choices.

Instead we have hour clocks for fucking inventory management and symmetric and full Wing payouts vs. gimped rubbish in multicrew, because - bohoo - newbs could have potentially gotten credits fast. What is this rubbish? Game design by angst.

I wish Elite were more of a known entity in the gaming journalism world. I would *love* an investigation/expose into FD and Elite's development, as Kotaku did with Star Citizen.

 

[Serrato]

I guess he described why I stopped playing.

It does feel exactly the same as in 1.0 but with some barebone features added to it.

Oh well, had fun for a couple of hundred hours.

 

[Avid Reading Horse]

Aside from quickly logging in to see if there was a fatso body option so I could make my avatar look like Sludge Vohaul (and of course there isn't), I haven't played 2.3 at all. I have no motivation to do so. My Imperial rank grind is unfinished, and now is apparently even harder and slower. I'm sure I'll pop in to build my DBX taxi sooner or later, but it's a taxi with nowhere to go. I would like to get my Elite combat rank, I'm at Deadly +42% or so, but with massacre missions nerfed that also feels like an insane grind.

Multi-crew sounded kind of fun back before I became a space billionaire with a mostly G5-ed Anaconda, but now it just seems inefficient to fly CAP for my rich buddies.

Updates in a game like this need to give you something new to do, along with a benefit to do it. I can't for the life of me come up with a good reason to play 2.3.

 

[Hylian7]

I am sooo glad more people are taking this stance. I love elite so much but i cannot bring myself to play it much anymore because everything about the game is a hurdle to get to what I actually want to do and none of those hurdles are interesting.

Also I love that powerplay is so misunderstood and clearly not done by more than like 5% of the player base that they think it's a grind.

It's not even a grind, it's not even interesting. The money payout from the salary is so low it's not worth keeping your merits up and the only reason people do it is for the modules. All you need to do is pledge, wait 3 weeks, spend 3-4hrs getting 750 merits and then wait for the week to end and you're done.

That's not a grind, that's just not playing the game for a month lmao. Goddamn powerplay is SO FUCKING BAD!

I used to haul power cargo every week to consistently get rank 1, the only reason I did it was for those increased bounty payouts with Arissa Lavigny-Duval, which were nice, but keeping that up every week became a chore and I stopped doing it.

 

[SmartBase]

Aside from quickly logging in to see if there was a fatso body option so I could make my avatar look like Sludge Vohaul (and of course there isn't), I haven't played 2.3 at all. I have no motivation to do so. My Imperial rank grind is unfinished, and now is apparently even harder and slower. I'm sure I'll pop in to build my DBX taxi sooner or later, but it's a taxi with nowhere to go. I would like to get my Elite combat rank, I'm at Deadly +42% or so, but with massacre missions nerfed that also feels like an insane grind.

Multi-crew sounded kind of fun back before I became a space billionaire with a mostly G5-ed Anaconda, but now it just seems inefficient to fly CAP for my rich buddies.

Updates in a game like this need to give you something new to do, along with a benefit to do it. I can't for the life of me come up with a good reason to play 2.3.

This is pretty much me, there's nothing left for me to do since the face creator only provides so much amusement. The only feeling of progression was the grind for ships and I already have the big three. Just wish there was something a bit more in-depth to do with them besides horde mode, honk and scan, and A-B-A deliveries.

 

[wesleyshark]

Must be a good region for water worlds... Logged on and found two more within the same system after a few jumps.

Edit: and four more- two pairs, orbiting each other. This is a lucky streak lol.

[img]http://imgur.com/rGksglt.jpg[/img]

 

[wesleyshark]

First time I've seen a Neutron star spewing and spiraling this quickly. Pretty damn cool.

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Wesley S Shark/video/29837807

 

[Mengy]

First time I've seen a Neutron star spewing and spiraling this quickly. Pretty damn cool.

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Wesley S Shark/video/29837807

Oh heck no, I've seen some much, MUCH faster than that. Some spiral so fast that they are practically conical and "solid", pulsating faster than techno trance rave stage lights. They are rare though.

 

[wesleyshark]

Oh heck no, I've seen some much, MUCH faster than that. Some spiral so fast that they are practically conical and "solid", pulsating faster than techno trance rave stage lights. They are rare though.

Oooo that's freaking cool. Hopefully I come across one as I get closer to the center.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

The flailing arm inflatable man of the galaxy.

 

[vector824]

Looks like that dude from Mr. Robot.

Yeah it does! Weird part is that my character looks like me, but I don't really look like Elliot Anderson... I think the eyes are too large.

 

[Granadier]

The flailing arm inflatable man of the galaxy.

Wacky Waving Inflatable Neutron Man™

 

[Mengy]

So, a mega ship has been found way out in the Formidine Rift due to decoding that Galnet article with a bunch of Greek word clues from a few days ago. Here is a video showing the ship and the logs you get from scanning it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtNq-tG4EgA&app=desktop


Here is a post containing most of the info about it:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ERY-(Part-4)?p=5399091&viewfull=1#post5399091

 

[wesleyshark]

That's really cool. The voice acting logs are a nice touch.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

So finally got rid of my Python for good. Been on a off and on pattern with that thing for a while but when I sat down I really could not think of a reason to keep it.

Hmm. Unless you've already engineered all of the ships you're going to engineer, you made a mistake selling the Python.

There is no better mission runner in the game. Medium pad landing capabilities, ability to haul 200T+ cargo (large cargo hold means more concurrent mission board missions = more critical mission-only mats like Exquisite Focus Crystals), good jump range, and ability to do everything you need to do (combat zones, trading, mining) in one ship, and do them well.

I've fully G5 engineered 26 ships to date. I did 90% of the labor in a Python after trying various ships from Asps to Anacondas.

I don't even fly it much outside of engineering-related tasks, but I have no problem stating that the Python is the most useful and well-rounded ship in the game. Firepower and power overhead to spare, nimble enough to win most fights, strong enough defenses to survive rough encounters. All while being the best medium landing pad trading ship in the game.

It's the Millenium Falcon of Elite Dangerous. Make plans to buy it again at some point and you'll find out just how useful it is.

 

[wesleyshark]

Hmm. Unless you've already engineered all of the ships you're going to engineer, you made a mistake selling the Python.

There is no better mission runner in the game. Medium pad landing capabilities, ability to haul 200T+ cargo (large cargo hold means more concurrent mission board missions = more critical mission-only mats like Exquisite Focus Crystals), good jump range, and ability to do everything you need to do (combat zones, trading, mining) in one ship, and do them well.

I've fully G5 engineered 26 ships to date. I did 90% of the labor in a Python after trying various ships from Asps to Anacondas.

I don't even fly it much outside of engineering-related tasks, but I have no problem stating that the Python is the most useful and well-rounded ship in the game. Firepower and power overhead to spare, nimble enough to win most fights, strong enough defenses to survive rough encounters. All while being the best medium landing pad trading ship in the game.

It's the Millenium Falcon of Elite Dangerous. Make plans to buy it again at some point and you'll find out just how useful it is.

The Python is easily my favorite ship. If it had the jump range of my 'conda, I would be flying it to the center instead.

Definitely will be ordering my trusty Python to be transferred once I'm there.

 

[Avid Reading Horse]

Python is an ugly boring sluggish turd. Just my humble opinion. But I hated every moment of using the thing.

 

[AbandonedTrolley]

Any more news on the PS4 release, still waiting to see if they patch in VR or what they plan to do on the Pro.

 

[wesleyshark]

Any more news on the PS4 release, still waiting to see if they patch in VR or what they plan to do on the Pro.

Definitely curious as well, regarding their plans (if any) for PSVR and VR on Scorpio.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Making some decent money on these sightseeing passenger missions, 4.5 mil for ~300 ly of travel. Also another 3-500k for honking as I go.



Re: Python- It is probably the best all around ship, but I like the Clipper more as multirole makes up for one less large hardpoint with pure speed, only real issue I have is that the Clipper needs a large pad for whatever reason.



Also found an asteriod ship doing sightseeing trips, was a lot bounty hunting going on around it.

 

[vector824]

Less Elliot this time.

 

[Effect]

I know the Python is a good ship but really just wasn't working out for me. Honestly I just never really liked the design of the ship either. I mainly got the Python initially because of how good it was suppose to be.I stuck with it because it was suppose to be so good. Good storage potential, enough slots to do passenger and cargo missions or to do mining if I wish, etc. As long as you stored your mods it wouldn't cost much to move things around. Thing is I don't think I ever really enjoyed piloting it and I can say that about several other of the ships, even ones I don't have anymore. I don't like how the Asp Explorer looks and where the cockpit is located but I do like flying it. It got to a point where even if I'm ending up with a "lesser" ship the enjoyment level should come first over what is more efficient in the game. I was to focused on what was more efficient I think.

Now the Clipper is a ship design I like and want to try out. I generally like the design of both the Imperial and Federation ships. Honestly if the Dropship didn't have such poor range, even with modifications I would have stuck with that longer. The weird drifting you end up doing in that thing was interesting. The Clipper while needing a large pad is something I do want to try out. I'm trying to get my rank up in order to buy one and see how I like it.

I also have this weird hang up I guess where if the ship is on the larger side then perhaps it should feel different and I don't think the Python felt different enough. If anything it might have been to maneuverable if that is a thing.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Now the Clipper is a ship design I like and want to try out. I generally like the design of both the Imperial and Federation ships. Honestly if the Dropship didn't have such poor range, even with modifications I would have stuck with that longer. The weird drifting you end up doing in that thing was interesting. The Clipper while needing a large pad is something I do want to try out. I'm trying to get my rank up in order to buy one and see how I like it.
.

Clipper is a lot of fun, highly recommend it. Good visibility (though the bridge can be a bit too overbearing in it's brightness), engine and boost sound unique. Hardpoint wise the lack of convergence of the hardpoints is a bit frustrating so it's a definitely a boom-n-zoom interceptor rather than a close range fighter. Lvl 3 dirty drives and I'm right around 500 at peak boost, so it's fun to fly. Good cargo/storage and my fully A-rated ship range on a lvl 4 FSD is around 25 ly. So not bad for being fully fitted.

 

[wesleyshark]

#soon

 

[Burny]

Frontier are going to change multicrew payout. But because they still are,full of angst that a newb could gain too much credits for not risking their ship, in order to explain to somebody how multicrew payouts work, they'll have them study this table first:

So. If you're new, don't waste your time in the ship of an "Elite" ranked helm player. Go to the ships of the less ranked players and get substantially higher payouts, for no other reason than people at Frontier can't fucking get over how other people progress early in the game.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Saw that earlier. The official thread seemed to be heaping praise upon FD for this change, so I stopped reading after a few pages.

I really don't understand the justification for this pay scaling. I really can't wrap my head around in.

A bounty is a bounty. Someone says "I'm offering X credits for this guy's head" not "I'm offering X credits for this guy's head for Elite players, Y credits for Dangerous players, etc."

Like, why would the person who put the bounty out give a *fuck* about your rank?

They're treating your rank like faction rep and it's bullshit. But even with faction missions, you aren't punished based on your rank. You ARE offered a higher tier of missions/rewards if you have higher rep, but otherwise, if you are Harmless but there is an Elite-ranked mission paying out 1mil credits and it's available, you can take it. Your credits aren't scaled based on your rank there.

 

[RAIDEN1]

So any more Thargoid news? More sightings? Anything mysterious floating around out there with their signature on it? I was impressed with that footage from couple of months ago with the first encounter with them!!

 

[wesleyshark]

Fucking. Finally.

Found my first Earth-like. Took a bunch of photos but these are my favorite ones. Also will be the first to have discovered it, as well!

[img]http://imgur.com/AZUZbPn.jpg[/img]
[img]http://imgur.com/dl1KW3k.jpg[/img]
[img]http://imgur.com/O3FPz1f.jpg[/img]
[img]http://imgur.com/n5aQXhM.jpg[/img]

 

[Mengy]

Frontier are going to change multicrew payout. But because they still are,full of angst that a newb could gain too much credits for not risking their ship, in order to explain to somebody how multicrew payouts work, they'll have them study this table first:

So. If you're new, don't waste your time in the ship of an "Elite" ranked helm player. Go to the ships of the less ranked players and get substantially higher payouts, for no other reason than people at Frontier can't fucking get over how other people progress early in the game.

Why make it so complicated? Why go to all that trouble just to penalize their brand new feature and make it less appealing?

In my line of work we have a saying: "is this value added?", meaning will this change make things better, and is it worth the effort to do it? Frontier doesn't seem to understand what value added means, and their priorities continue to be misdirected IMHO.

So sad.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Any news on the PS4 version lately?

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Putzing around doing tourist missions and it took me to see some volcanism

 

[wesleyshark]

Made it to Jaques!

[img]http://imgur.com/YLhTE7t.jpg[/img]

 

[Dreams-Visions]

grats man. that's one drive I don't think I'll ever make.

 

[wesleyshark]

grats man. that's one drive I don't think I'll ever make.

Not sure if I'll go back to the bubble any time soon lol. That was a draining trip.

Already started the transfer for my Python and Courier.

 

[Mengy]

Made it to Jaques!

[img]http://imgur.com/YLhTE7t.jpg[/img]

Congrats! I've been back and forth many times now, I rather enjoy the trip using the neutron highway, as it not only makes it faster but it breaks up the monotony of endless jumping too.

 

[Sibylus]

Frontier are going to change multicrew payout. But because they still are,full of angst that a newb could gain too much credits for not risking their ship, in order to explain to somebody how multicrew payouts work, they'll have them study this table first:

So. If you're new, don't waste your time in the ship of an "Elite" ranked helm player. Go to the ships of the less ranked players and get substantially higher payouts, for no other reason than people at Frontier can't fucking get over how other people progress early in the game.

An improvement, but still worthless complexity for unclear reasons.

 

[wesleyshark]

Congrats! I've been back and forth many times now, I rather enjoy the trip using the neutron highway, as it not only makes it faster but it breaks up the monotony of endless jumping too.

I keep hearing the highway mentioned... Need to look into that haha

 

[Burny]

An improvement, but still worthless complexity for unclear reasons.

No, the reason is actually crystal clear. They don't want players to make the same progress as others, so long as they don't risk flying their own ship or are not as 'senior' ('cause let's face it: Elite rank is a measure of the time you wasted on the game, not representative of skill). In order to model what they think is a "risk vs. reward" mechanic, they take player combat rank and gimp progress, this time at least taking both players' rank into consideration.


Only, they have no fucking clue how to build a game that does not waste their players' time. Wing up, have more fun using your own ship, marginally higher risk, get full payouts. Crew up? You can be the best bloody gunner or SLF pilot in the game, you'll invariably face gimped payouts from severe to now somewhat less severe compared to the time spend doing the very same activity in a Wing. Which means essentially doing the same thing with a slightly different flavor and full payouts instead.

That's one way to tell your players: "Don't waste your fucking time on this new mechanic we build for you. Go, play that other superior mechanic instead that let's you do essentially the same, only better." That's also one way to waste dev time on developing a shell of a multicrew mechanic. At least winging up for PvE now means not constantly being reminded, that you would be more effective alone.


When they announced their multicrew implementation a couple of months back, I would've considered it a fun coop activity to do for a colleage who recently bought the game and me, even though limited to combat. Now, all I see is a dead paperweight of a feature, that they could've left out of the game for all we care, as we're going to wing up and not bother with multicrew, so in terms of game design and balance, they did at least some good with 2.3.

 

[Not Spaceghost]

They even said mentoring was part of multicrew...

But now I guess they retroactively built that into wings lmao. No one is going to tell their friend who just started playing to get totally screwed on payouts so they can hang out in the same ship.

 

[Burny]

No one is going to tell their friend who just started playing to get totally screwed on payouts so they can hang out in the same ship.

But, but, but they're not risking their ship and reducing them to 20% payout because I've spend hundreds of hours more on the game than them is really well thought out!?

This white knighting in bullshit really gives me nausea.

 

[Effect]

Don't want and don't believe this is white knighting but it does make sense, at least to me, that you shouldn't get the same pay amount if you are being projected into another person's ship. You're filling a role while the pilot has to still pilot and deal with the rebuy if the ship is destroyed. If you are in a wing you're in your own ship sharing a more equal part of the risk. So on that front it makes sense from a design point of view and one of fairness. How much you get paid though would be the issue and I agree should be fairer. Then there is a case do you let people join and just gain large amounts of money without doing the other activities in the game. Essentially powerleveling even if it's just money wise. That could be what they're trying to avoid with the experience and interaction being the bigger focus of crewing up with someone. Like being in a Wing I assume multi-crewing is largely a social thing.

Mulit-crew isn't suppose to be a replacement for wings. I don't think it was ever intended to be a money maker either. Its suppose to be another additional activity you can do with others. I guess one way to deal with this is that people rotate. As a group you join player 1's ship for a while. Then later the group joins the ship of player 2 in the group. Then player 3 gets to be the pilot as others join his or her ship. Or if it's two people just take turns.

On another note. I wish Winters has a combat aspect to her faction when it come to Power Play. Being a space truck driver for her info is really boring. Then again I wish Power Play in general was better.