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[strange headache]

The premise that the entire medical infrastructure which does every other medical practice in these developed countries with training, oversight, regulation and analysis has none of that regarding this particular practice seems unlikely. But, as always where there are problems which can be addressed with new understanding and investigation. Not assumptions from incomplete data.

The American medical industry also produces results like this:

I wouldn't put too much stock into its seriousness. Lots of good doctors out there, but also lots of charlatans smelling big money while capitalizing on trends.

 

[lukilladog]

People just need to ACCEPT WHAT THEY ARE. That is the crux of the issue. Society should not be encouraging people adult or child to do surgery instead of just being what you are. If you are a masculine female that is OK. If you are a feminine male that is OK. There is no surgery that is required for these conditions. It's acceptance.

Naturalist fallacy. Being what you are, or the way you are, does not mean it´s good, should be, meant to be, ought to be, preferable, or necessarily suitable. I´m kind with you here, but we need better arguments.

 

[Mistake]

I think things are getting a bit off topic. I’m actually glad twitter is bringing him to court, because discovery will be some nice drama

 

[ManaByte]

I think things are getting a bit off topic. I’m actually glad twitter is bringing him to court, because discovery will be some nice drama

Twitter will move to seal everything immediately so their advertisers don't see the fraud.

 

[Kraz]

The American medical industry also produces results like this:

I wouldn't put too much stock into its seriousness. Lots of good doctors out there, but also lots of charlatans smelling big money while capitalizing on trends.

If she likes it(I remember those tits getting kicked off a plane in another thread. I wonder if she had a discrimination case.) then yeah it's capitalizing because it's capitalism. That doesn't mean there isn't oversight, review, accountability and regulation, too. It's a lawsuit heavy nation too. Other than being aesthetically challenging for others and to my eyes clearly gotta hurt the back that doesn't seem more than someone enjoying their time alive for themselves.

 

[BlueAlpaca]

However, unfortunately for you and any single individual is they aren't the dictator of what parents should be allowed to do. It's peer reviewed and reassessed then regulated and brought to law or politics. It's not decided by outrage of an individual shouting a meaningless "leave children alone".

med-schools-are-now-denying-biological

Peer review! analysis! regulation!

 

[InfiniteCombo]

I heard an analyst say that, at best -- meaning, giving Elon the most benefit of the doubt as to what kind of chess game he may be playing here -- this could have been a really elaborate plan by Elon to liquidate some of the Tesla stock he owns without tanking the Tesla stock value. The analyst went into a lot of investment and corporate finance talk that's honestly a bit above my current understanding, so I'm not gonna try to elaborate on it.

Regardless, both sides have superpowered New York-based legal teams which means this may drag on forever.

 

[Kraz]

med-schools-are-now-denying-biological

Peer review! analysis! regulation!

Exactly.
I agree with much of Anderson's takeaway from the article:

"
While she doesn’t like phrases like “rapid-onset gender dysphoria” or “social contagion,” she said something is definitely going on.

“What makes us think that gender is the one exception to peer influence?” she told me. “For 100 years, psychology has acknowledged that adolescence is a time of experimentation and exploration. It's normal. I'm not alarmed by that. What I'm alarmed by is some medical and psychological professionals rushing kids into taking blockers or hormones.”

Anderson isn’t opposed to pediatric transition when patients are properly diagnosed, but she wants to see more individualized care rather than the activist-driven, one-size-fits-all approach.
"

That the argument can be made is great. It's part of creating better standards and practices in a newly developing field.

Which makes me think of Elon and his trans kid and some speculation I read regarding his motivation for buying twitter.

 

[Konnor]

If she likes it(I remember those tits getting kicked off a plane in another thread. I wonder if she had a discrimination case.) then yeah it's capitalizing because it's capitalism. That doesn't mean there isn't oversight, review, accountability and regulation, too. It's a lawsuit heavy nation too. Other than being aesthetically challenging for others and to my eyes clearly gotta hurt the back that doesn't seem more than someone enjoying their time alive for themselves.

This is exploitation of a mentally ill person and there's obviously no accountability or proper regulation for shit like this.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I heard an analyst say that, at best -- meaning, giving Elon the most benefit of the doubt as to what kind of chess game he may be playing here -- this could have been a really elaborate plan by Elon to liquidate some of the Tesla stock he owns without tanking the Tesla stock value. The analyst went into a lot of investment and corporate finance talk that's honestly a bit above my current understanding, so I'm not gonna try to elaborate on it.

Regardless, both sides have superpowered New York-based legal teams which means this may drag on forever.

There is no question that it was way overvalued when it was hitting $1400, something I personally took advantage of with sell off and buyback later. There was no way it would have sustained what it is now, without gentle manipulation, otherwise you run the chances of bursting into flames, worse off.

 

[Kraz]

This is exploitation of a mentally ill person and there's obviously no accountability or proper regulation for shit like this.

In the broad sense that you're saying there's no regulation for what you consider exploitation....well, medical professionals, academics, and the majority of the well educated voting citizens of these advanced nations seem to be making reality of regulations for a truth about existence.
Who denies the truth is mentally ill, isn't it?
There appears to be some debate over nuances of the matter as settled upon at this point. Discovery could change things.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

The American medical industry also produces results like this:



I wouldn't put too much stock into its seriousness. Lots of good doctors out there, but also lots of charlatans smelling big money while capitalizing on trends.

Do you know for a fact her surgeries were done in the USA? Lots of people do cosmetic surgery overseas. I have a hard time seeing this being done in the USA if only because of the inevitable chronic pain issues that would likely lead to.

 

[strange headache]

Do you know for a fact her surgeries were done in the USA? Lots of people do cosmetic surgery overseas. I have a hard time seeing this being done in the USA if only because of the inevitable chronic pain issues that would likely lead to.

So you telling me all the fake plastified LA and Hollywood types go to Mexico and that plastic surgery and steroids aren't a billion dollar industry in the US?

And that isn't even the under the counter stuff.

 

[LegendOfKage]

 

[DeepEnigma]

So you telling me all the fake plastified LA and Hollywood types go to Mexico and that plastic surgery and steroids aren't a billion dollar industry in the US?

And that isn't even the under the counter stuff.

Calf augmentation sounds painful.

 

[Ionian]

Elon Musk thread sure turned weird.

Is he trans now?

 

[Azurro]

The main difference actually is one of consent and liberty, but don't you worry about silly things like those. The fact that our surgical practitices have got to the point where these procedures can be carried out by professionals is the opposite of "barbaric". But don't you worry about silly little things like the definition of words. Not when you can try to appeal to people's emotions with such flowery language. Far more effective.

I hate to tell this to you, but children cannot consent. They are literally unable to, because they cannot process or understand the consequences of their actions, nor what the side effects will be, so it's already immoral from that point of view.

Your other point about medical institutions are broken when activists forbid certain types of research, and "gender affirming" doctors, psychiatrists and psychologists are already a thing. That system is broken and has been taken over by ideologues.

It's funny that you bring up "feelings" when that's the entire foundation of the current ideology behind chopping up children and adults. The gender ideology people can't even define their own terms like man and woman and yet are ok with giving chemical castration drugs to children and performing immoral surgeries.

If anything, it's conservatives that are way more in touch with reality, liberty and morality, which is a very funny thing to consider.

 

[funkygunther]

It's funny that you bring up "feelings" when that's the entire foundation of the current ideology behind chopping up children and adults. The gender ideology people can't even define their own terms like man and woman and yet are ok with giving chemical castration drugs to children and performing immoral surgeries.

If anything, it's conservatives that are way more in touch with reality, liberty and morality, which is a very funny thing to consider.

I'm not bringing up feelings outside of your attempts to appeal to emotion. Your strawman of "gender ideology people" that somehow includes doctors, psychiatrists, trans people alongside everyone else shows how little you know or are willing to know about these subjects. Provide some of these surgery examples and let's discuss the minutiae of these cases.

 

[Azurro]

I'm not bringing up feelings outside of your attempts to appeal to emotion. Your strawman of "gender ideology people" that somehow includes doctors, psychiatrists, trans people alongside everyone else shows how little you know or are willing to know about these subjects. Provide some of these surgery examples and let's discuss the minutiae of these cases.

How is it a strawman? Gender ideology people can't even define what a woman or a man is, it's scary that those doctors you mention don't even look at data that "gender affirming" treatment does nothing for those patients.

Let's start with you, can you define those terms?

 

[ManaByte]

Back on topic:

Twitter sues Elon Musk over his attempt to back out of $44 billion deal

Twitter sued billionaire Elon Musk on Tuesday, aiming to force him to go through with a $44 billion agreement for him to purchase the social media giant.

www.foxbusiness.com

 

[funkygunther]

How is it a strawman? Gender ideology people can't even define what a woman or a man is, it's scary that those doctors you mention don't even look at data that "gender affirming" treatment does nothing for those patients.

Let's start with you, can you define those terms?

Er...you can try to change the subject all you want but you're the one that brought up surgeries and I'm asking for examples of these so we can scrutinise them together

 

[ManaByte]

 

[Azurro]

Er...you can try to change the subject all you want but you're the one that brought up surgeries and I'm asking for examples of these so we can scrutinise them together

Look up one of the fathers of the gender ideology, John Money. He proposed gender is just a social construct and experimented on twins where one had a botched circumcision and was raised as a woman. They ended up commiting suicide.

But no, I want to know your answer, can you define the terms man and woman?

 

[Javthusiast]

Nice, sue his meme edgelord ass.

 

[cormack12]

 

[funkygunther]

Look up one of the fathers of the gender ideology, John Money. He proposed gender is just a social construct and experimented on twins where one had a botched circumcision and was raised as a woman. They ended up commiting suicide.

But no, I want to know your answer, can you define the terms man and woman?

Money making Reiners parents live a lie is not the same as a trans person going through any kind of gender therapy where alignment surgery is offered. That's what I'm asking for. Not a case where a doctor went "well let him live as a woman" from months old until he was 14 (still a child btw), when he actually went under surgery to realign to male, but the damage was apparently already done. Other whole pieces of malpractices like Money's behavioural therapy with his twin and the neverending bullying would have played a part too.

Obviously Money's impact in the fate of these twins cannot be understated but its not an example of a trans person self identifying, it's the opposite.

 

[Mistake]

Calf augmentation sounds painful.

You’re right, my cow didn’t like it at all

 

[Azurro]

funkygunther you skipped answering my question, I would like to know your answer. What is a woman?

 

[funkygunther]

funkygunther you skipped answering my question, I would like to know your answer.

I'm not playing your little gotcha change the subject game I'm afraid

 

[Azurro]

I'm not playing your little gotcha change the subject game I'm afraid

It's not a gotcha question, if your ideology rests on gender self identification, then what are people identifying as? So, what is a woman? It's something you should be able to define, no?

 

[funkygunther]

It's not a gotcha question, if your ideology rests on gender self identification, then what are people identifying as? So, what is a woman? It's something you should be able to define, no?

I don't have a "gender ideology", I am trying to discuss this all to get a better understanding. You can have a definition that a woman is anyone that identifies as a woman/female. You can also have a definition that a woman is a human biological female. It's a silly rhetorical question.

 

[Azurro]

I don't have a "gender ideology", I am trying to discuss this all to get a better understanding. You can have a definition that is a woman is anyone that identifies as a woman/female. You can also have a definition that a woman is a human biological female. It's a silly rhetorical question.

It is not a rhetorical question, when you answer "anyone that identifies as a woman is a woman", that's a circular definition. What is the definition of a woman?

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

So you telling me all the fake plastified LA and Hollywood types go to Mexico and that plastic surgery and steroids aren't a billion dollar industry in the US?

And that isn't even the under the counter stuff.

No, that's not at all what I'm saying.

 

[funkygunther]

It is not a rhetorical question, when you answer "anyone that identifies as a woman is a woman", that's a circular definition. What is the definition of a woman?

Nope it's not a circular definition, that would just be "a woman is a woman".

 

[Kraz]

 

[Azurro]

Nope it's not a circular definition, that would just be "a woman is a woman".

That's exactly what you posted "a woman is whoever identifies as a woman", that's not a definition, that's circular logic. What do they identify as? What is a woman?

 

[funkygunther]

That's exactly what you posted "a woman is whoever identifies as a woman", that's not a definition, that's circular logic. What do they identify as? What is a woman?

I've already answered, do you struggle with the concept of identity?

 

[ManaByte]

 

[BeardGawd]

I've already answered, do you struggle with the concept of identity?

I think he's referring to sex. male vs female.

Woman and Man typically went with sex. But now they are trying to say it's self identifying. Sorta like femine vs masculine.

 

[LegendOfKage]

What was the "oh the irony" post in response to? That tweet is gone now. What did it say?

 

[Kraz]

What was the "oh the irony" post in response to? That tweet is gone now. What did it say?

Thought it was a reference to Twitter suing him.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I think he's referring to sex. male vs female.

Woman and Man typically went with sex. But now they are trying to say it's self identifying. Sorta like femine vs masculine.

Poor biological women, all that hard work they fought for, and they're losing their spaces again. Get in back of the line, ladies.

 

[Azurro]

I've already answered, do you struggle with the concept of identity?

You did not answer, that was a cop out. "A woman is an adult human female" is a definition rejected by gender ideologues, and "A woman is whoever identifies as a woman" is circular logic, because it does not define the word woman.

So, again, what is a woman?

 

[Chittagong]

You did not answer, that was a cop out. "A woman is an adult human female" is a definition rejected by gender ideologues, and "A woman is whoever identifies as a woman" is circular logic, because it does not define the word woman.

So, again, what is a woman?

The only definition I have seen goes something like this. Woman is a person who identifies as a woman. The word woman shall not imply or suppose any particular physical or mental characteristics. Hence, quite literally, woman has been reduced to anyone who identifies with the said five letters. In a way, it is a flag you fly.

 

[funkygunther]

You did not answer, that was a cop out. "A woman is an adult human female" is a definition rejected by gender ideologues, and "A woman is whoever identifies as a woman" is circular logic, because it does not define the word woman.

So, again, what is a woman?

you keep repeating yourself because your programming is broken, and what will happen now is I will ask (if you accept the first definition as the only definition) what is a female?

to which you might respond with some biological argument like "someone born with XX chromosomes" etc, and so it will go on and on...it's a cheap gotcha trick you're trying to play, and a rabbit hole of linguistics more than it is, actually, about anything to do with trans or cis people

 

[Azurro]

you keep repeating yourself because your programming is broken, and what will happen now is I will ask (if you accept the first definition as the only definition) what is a female?

to which you might respond with some biological argument like "someone born with XX chromosomes" etc, and so it will go on and on...it's a cheap gotcha trick you're trying to play, and a rabbit hole of linguistics more than it is, actually, about anything to do with trans or cis people

Can't you reply with anything that isn't a cop out? It's funny you deflect with that when the whole gender ideology is about linguistics. Gender is a grammatical concept, it's not real, because those identities you speak about aren't necessary.

Btw, the word "cis" is unnecessary, please stop using it. The human race's sexual reproduction system is binary, male and females, there's no need to add "cis", other than as a demonstration of political power of the LGBT+ activists through linguistics.

 

[funkygunther]

Can't you reply with anything that isn't a colour? It's funny you deflect with that when the whole gender ideology is about linguistics. Gender is a grammatical concept, it's not real, because those identities you speak about aren't necessary.

Btw, the word "cis" is unnecessary, please stop using it. The human race's sexual reproduction system is binary, male and females, there's no need to add "cis", other than as a demonstration of political power of the LGBT+ activists through linguistics.

gender ideology isn't about linguistics, but this "what is a woman" schtick is...it's a distraction you're playing well into

the "btw" bit just means you're not really willing to understand these identifiers despite, ironically, holding onto the identifier of a "woman" very strongly, nor are you willing to try and understand what gender identity might be because now it's political power?

you're flailing a bit on different subjects, like you did already by moving from children's elective surgery, to definitions of a woman (of which I provided) and now you're saying the system is "binary" without getting into the specifics of your definition of a female, which is the rabbit hole I'm talking about

 

[Wildebeest]

Elon Musk's reality distortion field really isn't as good as the one Steve Jobs had. But I don't really understand where this thread is going. This contract is null and void because people don't know what gender it is? Weird.

 

[Star-Lord]

Do the big chiefs at Twitter really think they stand a chance of actually suing the worlds richest man? I mean, legal issues aside (I'm pretty sure anyone has a 'cooling off' period in which they can legally retract from a contractual agreement), they just don't have the financial man-power to take him down. They'll try, because it's Twitter, but his legal team will go in harder on them than Depp's did on Turd. I can't wait to see this all fall apart in front of Twitter's face.

 

[saturnalian]

Twitter vs Elon legal battle: