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[Raistlin]

Of course, the best solution would be to sell two mac minis, one with and the other one without drive

you'd think

 

[Marty Chinn]

you'd think

But then Apple wouldn't be able to have 76 billion in the bank. They'd only have 75.99 billion.

 

[Blackhead]

Why is this thread 6/12 pages...

Anyway, I just noticed that the new Airs don't have an eject button anymore. The external Macbook Air Superdrive doesn't have an eject button on it either.

 

[mrkgoo]

Why is this thread 6/12 pages...

Anyway, I just noticed that the new Airs don't have an eject button anymore. The external Macbook Air Superdrive doesn't have an eject button on it either.

Did the old airs have an eject button? I have to admit, I never thought about it. What would it be used for if you didn't have a superdrive?

 

[Jasoco]

On the new Airs, and most Macs anyway, the F12 key acts as an eject button for any optical drive that may be connected when you hold it down. So I assume if you had an external drive on your Air, F12 would eject it.

 

[Blackhead]

Did the old airs have an eject button? I have to admit, I never thought about it. What would it be used for if you didn't have a superdrive?

Yes, the old airs had an eject button. It wasn't used for anything if there wasn't an optical drive connected. I always thought that was a poor design decision on Apple's part. Pressing the eject button should provide a hud showing all the connected physical devices and an option to eject them imo.

On the new Airs, and most Macs anyway, the F12 key acts as an eject button for any optical drive that may be connected when you hold it down. So I assume if you had an external drive on your Air, F12 would eject it.

On the new Air keyboard, shown above, the F12 key is for volume control.

 

[jts]

The real offender here is the power button directly on the keyboard. Power button on Macs are supposed to be cool, mang, not just another key.

 

[shantyman]

I'm trying to wrap my head around the fact that offering an external drive option is to some people not offering a Mac mini with an optical drive.

 

[sikkinixx]

Of course, the best solution would be to sell two mac minis, one with and the other one without drive

Probably but giving people an out isn't something Apple likes to do. For better or worse, wrong or right, Apple likes to drag people kicking and screaming into what they think is the way computers need to/should be.


The thing that bugs me more is that they don't throw in a second drive on the $799 config. It doesn't have to be an SSD, just tack on another 500GB drive so it comes stock with 1TB.

 

[Marty Chinn]

I'm trying to wrap my head around the fact that offering an external drive option is to some people not offering a Mac mini with an optical drive.

Because some of us don't want our devices looking like this:

 

[Tobor]

You guys are taking the death of the optical disk pretty hard. I hope you can find some closure some day.

 

[Stumpokapow]

This is a bold move, but they're probably getting ahead of their time. CDs are still the main media used in cars besides radio, and I'm not sure the general population is going to embrace digital media as fast as Ford thinks. There could be some major backlash to this decision.

Are people still using CDs in cars because their cars only have CD players, or are people still using CDs in cars because they want to use CDs in cars? Serious question.

 

[AbsoluteZero]

Because some of us don't want our devices looking like this:

http://shuttlecraft.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/cheat.jpg[img][/QUOTE]

Nobody said you had to keep it plugged in all the time.

 

[andymcc]

Are people still using CDs in cars because their cars only have CD players, or are people still using CDs in cars because they want to use CDs in cars? Serious question.

i only use CDs in my car because i don't of an aux jack on my car stereo. i don't buy CDs, typically i just use the Digital Download codes that come w/ the vinyl versions of albums these days.

 

[Stumpokapow]

i only use CDs in my car because i don't of an aux jack on my car stereo. i don't buy CDs, typically i just use the Digital Download codes that come w/ the vinyl versions of albums these days.

Right. I mean, I listen to the radio in my car, but only because I don't have an aux jack and I've never found another solution (fm transmitter, :lol: cassette adapter) that works well, doesn't require maintenance, and doesn't take up too much space.

Most of the people I know who listen to cds in their car typically burn cds, and would instantly switch to using their ipods if they only could.

 

[Tobor]

Right. I mean, I listen to the radio in my car, but only because I don't have an aux jack and I've never found another solution (fm transmitter, :lol: cassette adapter) that works well, doesn't require maintenance, and doesn't take up too much space.

Most of the people I know who listen to cds in their car typically burn cds, and would instantly switch to using their ipods if they only could.

I don't know how comfortable you are with installing stuff, but I bought a replacement car stereo on Amazon last fall for $100. Bluetooth, aux jack, usb, the works. Amazon even sells the adapter cable you need for your particular vehicle. I'm incredibly happy with it.

 

[dallow_bg]

I don't know how comfortable you are with installing stuff, but I bought a replacement car stereo on Amazon last fall for $100. Bluetooth, aux jack, usb, the works. Amazon even sells the adapter cable you need for your particular vehicle. I'm incredibly happy with it.

Problem is that on some cars the stock stereos are so integrated into the vehicle/gps/air that normal replacements aren't an option.
There's other solutions for that but not as elegant for some vehicles.

 

[kehs]

Are people still using CDs in cars because their cars only have CD players, or are people still using CDs in cars because they want to use CDs in cars? Serious question.

I've literally never inserted a CD in my 2010 truck because it has an auxiliary jack.

(In two years)

 

[Deleted member 22576]

On the new Air keyboard, shown above, the F12 key is for volume control.

That strange key labeled "fn" is like a "shift" for those keys. Press it when you press the volume control and it acts like F12.

 

[Of All Trades]

Are people still using CDs in cars because their cars only have CD players, or are people still using CDs in cars because they want to use CDs in cars? Serious question.

I'd go with a mix of types. I know more than a few people who don't want to mess with the cables/hassle of using their iPods in the car, particularly since they already have cds in there (since they don't need cds in the house).

 

[Tobor]

Problem is that on some cars the stock stereos are so integrated into the vehicle/gps/air that normal replacements aren't an option.
There's other solutions for that but not as elegant for some vehicles.

That's true. Newer vehicles should have an aux jack at the very least, though, so this is an issue that will fade over time.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Nobody said you had to keep it plugged in all the time.

For a desktop, why would I want to fiddle with pulling it out and hooking it up all the time compared to just having it built in or plugged in all the time? I think anyone who wants the option would rather have it built in than external.

 

[Marty Chinn]

That's true. Newer vehicles should have an aux jack at the very least, though, so this is an issue that will fade over time.

While one would hope this is true, it's sad that the auto industry hires monkeys to design and built UI and entertainment interfaces. The auto industry is way behind the curve on such integration and it blows the mind that nobody steps up except for maybe Ford. I guess there just isn't money in taking the time to doing it well. I'm sure it'll fade over time but it's going to be a long time to fade and this is all based on 2011 model cars too since I have one and test drove many others. In my car, the AUX jack was actually removed from the previous year and it's considered a mid level luxary car. Fortunately between USB/iPod support and Bluetooth I don't care as much, but still it's mind boggling that it's gone.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Are people still using CDs in cars because their cars only have CD players, or are people still using CDs in cars because they want to use CDs in cars? Serious question.

99% of the time, the only reason I will use a CD in a car is if there is no Aux jack or iPod interface.

I keep a few CDs around for when I rent cars while traveling...but now even most of those have Aux jacks.

I also keep a few CDs handy because depending on the sound system, the CD will sound a little bit better.

 

[tedtropy]

Are people still using CDs in cars because their cars only have CD players, or are people still using CDs in cars because they want to use CDs in cars? Serious question.

I have an older MP3/CD replacement in-dash for my car, back when they'd put an AUX in at the back of the unit for whatever reason. Took it apart, ran an RCA to 3.5mm adaptor and now it's AUX + Pandora/MP3s over my Blackberry. Loves it. Before I had to keep burning discs that could only hold 700MB. There's a landfill somewhere with a mountain of throw-away MP3 CD-R mixes I've made...

 

[mollipen]

For a desktop, why would I want to fiddle with pulling it out and hooking it up all the time compared to just having it built in or plugged in all the time? I think anyone who wants the option would rather have it built in than external.

I do that with my mic, scanner, and printer. *shrugs* Something as small as an external optical drive, I don't think it's any big deal at all, especially for something like the Mac Mini where it'll no doubt be up accessible on a desk anyhow (unlike, say, a Power Mac that might be under a desk or whatever).

 

[3N16MA]

Removing the optical drive from their notebooks makes sense (will happen to the MBP). How many times does one use their optical drive when on the go? Installing software on the train? Burning a DVD at work? The reduced bulk/weight is a benefit to Apple's notebooks which makes sense.

 

[Vandiger]

Somewhat related...

Is this the end of in-car CD players? Ford scraps 'old' technology for digital entertainment -- Daily Mail
Last updated at 8:54 AM on 27th July 2011


I think this is only happening in Europe for the time being.

Makes sense, all the Nav data is stored on a SD card. My car has an aux port and two usb ports. I haven't used the CD/DVD slot since I bought the car.

 

[Kano on the Phone]

For a desktop, why would I want to fiddle with pulling it out and hooking it up all the time compared to just having it built in or plugged in all the time? I think anyone who wants the option would rather have it built in than external.

No one who wants that option would buy hardware without that option. If they buy the hardware anyway, they just learned that maybe it wasn't as much of a selling point as they thought it was.

This is like arguing that the Big Mac doesn't have tomatoes but some people might want tomatoes. Those people can pick something else off the menu that has tomatoes on it.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Removing the optical drive from their notebooks makes sense (will happen to the MBP). How many times does one use their optical drive when on the go? Installing software on the train? Burning a DVD at work? The reduced bulk/weight is a benefit to Apple's notebooks which makes sense.

But AdrianWerner would like us to believe that most people use their laptop's primarily to watch DVDs on the go! With their 2 hours of battery life.

*rolls eyes*

Makes sense, all the Nav data is stored on a SD card. My car has an aux port and two usb ports. I haven't used the CD/DVD slot since I bought the car.

Not always. My BMW's Nav data is stored on a DVD.

 

[Marty Chinn]

I do that with my mic, scanner, and printer. *shrugs* Something as small as an external optical drive, I don't think it's any big deal at all, especially for something like the Mac Mini where it'll no doubt be up accessible on a desk anyhow (unlike, say, a Power Mac that might be under a desk or whatever).

That just sounds like a pain in the ass to constantly hook up or disconnect things all the time. Do you also unplug your keyboard and mouse all the time too? Heck, don't most people network their printers and just leave them on all the time these days?

No one who wants that option would buy hardware without that option. If they buy the hardware anyway, they just learned that maybe it wasn't as much of a selling point as they thought it was.

This is like arguing that the Big Mac doesn't have tomatoes but some people might want tomatoes. Those people can pick something else off the menu that has tomatoes on it.

But what are your options when it comes to wanting OSX? There are only a small number of configurations when it comes to Apple. With a PC sure, you can go elsewhere, but if you want a Mac? That's a silly defense for defending it being external.

But AdrianWerner would like us to believe that most people use their laptop's primarily to watch DVDs on the go! With their 2 hours of battery life.

*rolls eyes*

I thought Macbooks have excellent battery life? =)

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I thought Macbooks have excellent battery life? =)

AdrianWerner doesn't own any Macs, thus the scope of any commentary with regarding to him is always limited to PCs unless expressly stipulated otherwise.

As for Macs, I have no idea how much battery life I'd get watching a DVD. As I've said, I took my optical drive out in favor of a second HDD in week 1. lol. That said, I clocked my 17" at about 6:44 minutes of battery life on Tuesday(!). That's while powering 2 HDDs, a screen at about half brightness, the backlit keyboard, 5 browser windows with 50 tabs open (combined), text editor, iTunes, etc. Didn't watch any videos, though. I'd guess maybe 4 hours or so with mp4's or MKV's. I'll probably test it one day.

Still, point being that I've never really seen anyone in my many years of living in airports watching a DVD on their laptop without being connected to an A/C outlet. I've never owned a PC laptop that could make it longer than 2.5 hours of play from a DVD disc without a battery swap, so I'm surprised that AdrianWerner would have the gaul to suppose that such is the key usage for laptops (in his effort to argue for keeping optical drives).

My HP Elitebook Tablet PC can make it maybe 3 hours when playing an MKV. About 6 without (though it has 2 batteries attached, so I guess that's cheating)

 

[AbsoluteZero]

Removing the optical drive from their notebooks makes sense (will happen to the MBP). How many times does one use their optical drive when on the go? Installing software on the train? Burning a DVD at work? The reduced bulk/weight is a benefit to Apple's notebooks which makes sense.

There will be a time when all of Apple's notebooks are as thin as the Air.

 

[Marty Chinn]

AdrianWerner doesn't own any Macs, thus the scope of any commentary with regarding to him is always limited to PCs unless expressly stipulated otherwise.

As for Macs, I have no idea how much battery life I'd get watching a DVD. But I clocked my 17" at about 6:44 minutes of battery life on Tuesday(!). Didn't watch any videos, though. I'd guess maybe 4 hours or so with mp4's or MKV's. I'll probably test it one day.

Still, point being that I've never really seen anyone in my many years of living in airports watching a DVD on their laptop without being connected to an A/C outlet. I've never owned a PC laptop that could make it longer than 2.5 hours of play without a battery swap, so I'm surprised that AdrianWerner would have the gaul to suppose that such is the key usage for laptops (in his effort to argue for keeping optical drives).

Well at an airport, it makes sense to see people plug in. Why drain your battery needlessly before your flight? I still see people at the airport watching DVDs on their laptops though, even on the plane. I think that's shifting with other devices now, but I still see people watching movies on their laptops. Plus why not? If you're on business, you likely have your laptop with you and it's easy to kill some time by watching movies on it.

That path was never for me and at the time I used the PSP a lot to watch movies since I'd never use my phone to do that on the basis I don't want to waste my battery when I'm on a flight and traveling. I can see where he's coming from though even though that's not the path for me.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

There will be a time when all of Apple's notebooks are as thin as the Air.

I doubt it. But they will get thinner. Integrated-only graphics allow the Air to be thin while retaining decent battery life. When you get into quad-core CPUs and upper-midrange discrete GPUs, you can't have that kind of power without a battery big enough to support it, assuming they want to keep the 6-8 hour battery life experience going.

I can see the 2012 MBP's losing maybe .25" in height? But really, I'd rather they replace the optical drive with a second HDD. INFINITELY more useful than an optical drive. I'd rather have a second HDD than a 1/4" more thinness and a little more lightness. But that's just me. HDD + SSD ftw.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Well at an airport, it makes sense to see people plug in. Why drain your battery needlessly before your flight? I still see people at the airport watching DVDs on their laptops though, even on the plane. I think that's shifting with other devices now, but I still see people watching movies on their laptops. Plus why not? If you're on business, you likely have your laptop with you and it's easy to kill some time by watching movies on it.

Therein lies my point, really. Sure, people will watch DVD videos *if they can plug in*. If they can't plug-in, they're unlikely to watch. Yet Mr. Werner would suggest that people use this feature (DVD playback) often or even as the core/best reason to own a laptop. But we all know that's simply not true unless he lives in Bizarro world where there are power plugs for every laptop at the airport or on the bus. In reality, people rarely use the optical drive unless a very specific option (A/C) is available to them. I contend that watching DVDs is pretty fucking far down the list of top usages for your average laptop owner. I think we should all be able to agree on that.

Also, I don't mind watching digital movies on my MBP away from the outlet because it has so much battery life to start with. I haven't watched many movies like this (I tend to prefer sleep on planes), but I do remember doing a battery drain test and getting through at least a couple of movies before it finally died. If I have a full charge to start the day, I don't have to think about whether an AC outlet is near by. Worrying about external power is principally a PC experience these days because PC battery life is bad unless you've bought a specific PC (like a TimelineX or similar). It's just not a worry I have anymore.

Yet another benefit of MBP ownership...but battery life is pretty much the explicit reason why I was happy to pay the premium. No other 17" offers the same (or even similar) power and portability.

 

[Tobor]

Anyone who thinks a lack of an installed optical drive is a dealbreaker, look elsewhere, or plug in an external. I don't think anyone will care, certainly not in numbers that matter to Apple. They know exactly who they're making machines for, and what features matter to those customers.

Ultimately, consumers will decide if Apple is correct. Anyone want to actually predict a drop in Mac sales next quarter? The quarter after that? I sure wouldn't.

 

[mollipen]

That just sounds like a pain in the ass to constantly hook up or disconnect things all the time. Do you also unplug your keyboard and mouse all the time too? Heck, don't most people network their printers and just leave them on all the time these days?

Uhh... I use my mouse and keyboard 100% of the time that I use my computer. I use my printer and scanner maybe 2%~5% of the time. How would you even equate mouse/keyboard use to peripherals use?

And I don't know, it's not that big of a deal. Take the printer/scanner out from where it's stored, plug it in, use it, unplug it, put it back. Can't take more than a minute or two total both get out and put away whatever I need to use.

 

[Slurpy2k20]

This fucking bitching is ridiculous. Apple will, once again, be massively successful by ignoring all those who say they're 'doing it wrong'. I'd wager the disk-less mac mini will end up being the best selling mac mini ever, and when the MBP drops its optical drive it will again become the best selling MBP ever- contrary to all the end-of-days garbage. Those that need/want an optical drive don't need to hobble the rest of us with something that adds ridiculous amount of size and weight to our notebooks.

 

[numble]

This fucking bitching is ridiculous. Apple will, once again, be massively successful by ignoring all those who say they're 'doing it wrong'. I'd wager the disk-less mac mini will end up being the best selling mac mini ever, and when the MBP drops its optical drive it will again become the best selling MBP ever- contrary to all the end-of-days garbage. Those that need/want an optical drive don't need to hobble the rest of us with something that adds ridiculous amount of size and weight to our notebooks.

Because moving to i5 from Core 2 Duo, having a $100 price drop and a $100 gift card, is going to lead to lower sales.

 

[Jasoco]

There will be a time when all of Apple's notebooks are as thin as the Air.

I'd be afraid of a super thin 17". That thing would snap right in half.

On the new Air keyboard, shown above, the F12 key is for volume control.

You hold it down and it ejects. That's how it works on my old Pro keyboard connected to my mini. Even though it also has a dedicated eject key. I'm willing to bet it would be the same if someone had a new Air and an external Apple DVD drive. If not then, well, you can always drag the disc to the trash or hold down the mouse button at boot-up. Or install the Disk Eject menuling.

 

[K' Dash]

Holy shit guys, I work with apple equipment and like everything it has pros and cons, but after reading some posts there are two words making sense more and more in my head: apple indoctrination, lol.

 

[Raistlin]

Are people still using CDs in cars because their cars only have CD players, or are people still using CDs in cars because they want to use CDs in cars? Serious question.

I do because I want to ... as an option. Normally I'm using using my phone or MP3/FLAC player, but plenty of situations arise where I'm glad I have a CD player. Wish it did DVD-A like my brother's, or better yet, SACD too.

 

[Kano on the Phone]

But what are your options when it comes to wanting OSX? There are only a small number of configurations when it comes to Apple. With a PC sure, you can go elsewhere, but if you want a Mac? That's a silly defense for defending it being external.

If you want OSX more than an optical drive, you'll buy it. If you want an optical drive more than OSX, you won't. If I want tomatoes, I won't buy a Big Mac. It's the least confusing concept in the world.

 

[shantyman]

Gruber points out the author's great track record as a pundit:

The iPad is, in my mind, one of Apple’s biggest misses. […]

I can’t begin to explain how disappointing this device is in the sense of being a usable computer. There’s a 1GHz CPU in there that can’t even be used for multitasking. There’s no camera for video chatting. There’s no way to watch a Flash video and chat within an IRC client at the same time. There’s not even a way to connect a USB device to this without paying Apple extra for an adapter. The iPad is remarkably limited in scope and functionality, and for no good reason. A netbook can run circles around this in terms of actually getting work done, and if I want to enjoy multimedia, I’ll carry around something that can fit in my pocket.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/27/editorial-engadget-on-the-ipad/

 

[dallow_bg]

I do because I want to ... as an option. Normally I'm using using my phone or MP3/FLAC player, but plenty of situations arise where I'm glad I have a CD player. Wish it did DVD-A like my brother's, or better yet, SACD too.

I leave the high res audio for an enviroment suited for it.
I guess I can see how multichannel sound would be nice somtimes.

 

[mrkgoo]

There sure are a lot of people butt-hurt about a decision in a product they were never going to buy anyway.



It's funny, this thread has enlightened me, and I kind of WANT to buy a mac mini now.

 

[Marty Chinn]

If you want OSX more than an optical drive, you'll buy it. If you want an optical drive more than OSX, you won't. If I want tomatoes, I won't buy a Big Mac. It's the least confusing concept in the world.

Of course there isn't a choice, but good god, are you honestly trying to say if someone wanted an optical drive in their Mac Mini, that somehow it's better outside than inside? Or that it's better to offer no option rather than two models so that you can choose? Having it external is certainly a solution, but it's an ugly and less convenient solution which goes against typically what Apple fans like about Apple. Just because there isn't a choice and you're forced to go with a less than ideal situation doesn't mean somehow that situation is all good and that it's perfect.

 

[Kano on the Phone]

Of course there isn't a choice, but good god, are you honestly trying to say if someone wanted an optical drive in their Mac Mini, that somehow it's better outside than inside? Or that it's better to offer no option rather than two models so that you can choose? Having it external is certainly a solution, but it's an ugly and less convenient solution which goes against typically what Apple fans like about Apple. Just because there isn't a choice and you're forced to go with a less than ideal situation doesn't mean somehow that situation is all good and that it's perfect.

I'm not buying a Mac Mini, so I don't have a strong opinion one way or another. What I'm saying is that different products have different upsides and downsides, and this is true in every possible retail scenario and shouldn't surprise and offend you so much. Sticking with the analogy, you don't go into McDonald's and complain that a Big Mac doesn't have tomatoes, onions, jalapenos, every kind of cheese, a fried egg, bacon, lettuce, spinach, roast beef, and tarter sauce on it just because you think it's right to have options, you just get the thing that has what you want in it, and if nothing has everything on it, you get the closest you can.

This really isn't as big of a deal as you're making it out to be. As far as bringing this "having it external is certainly a solution, but it's an ugly and less convenient solution which goes against typically what Apple fans like about Apple" argument into it, either you're forgetting or don't know that Apple was one of if not the first company to drop the internal floppy drive too, and people complained just as loudly for no reason back then too about something that wasn't a big deal at a time and doesn't matter at all now, just like this.

 

[LyleLanley]

This kind of reminds me of when they got rid of the expresscard slot on the MacBook Pros, almost no one used them but tons of people complained. And yes, I know that cd drives are used a lot more than the expresscard slots were.