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[NichM]

But how are you going to finish all of them just by appointments? Hmm? Intimate encounters with developers only gives you "routine" feel, wheras, events like E3 every year, gives you the option of meeting them, and playing some of the "next door neighbors' games" during breaks or at the same time (if you have a group with you).

This is exactly the point a lot of people seem to be missing. E3 isn't for fun. It's work, whether you're a developer, journalist, or retailer, and the scenario you're describing will streamline that work and make it a lot less of a headache for everyone. Audience members (journalists/buyers) will have assignments to certain companies and meeting rooms, where they'll have to take in all (or most, if it's a big enough company for a publication to assign multiple people) of the games present and report about that. It loses a lot less spontaneity, I suppose, but that was never really the point of the show in the first place.

When I was a journalist, I always had booth assignments anyway--under the new structure, I would actually have the time and exposure I needed with the games I was SUPPOSED to be covering. That's why everyone is so relieved here.

 

[Chris Remo]

E3 isn't for fun. It's work

E3: Where Business Gets Fun (TM)

If only.

 

[Tempy]

This is exactly the point a lot of people seem to be missing. E3 isn't for fun. It's work, whether you're a developer, journalist, or retailer, and the scenario you're describing will streamline that work and make it a lot less of a headache for everyone.

WAIT, YOU MEAN IT'S NOT A THEME PARK? I'M NOT IN LINE FOR THE MARIO ROLLERCOASTER RIDE?

 

[Ghengis Cohen]

If there is going to be no big show floor with demo stations, why would developers even bother creating functional demo builds? Presumably this means less downloadable demos (and we only got a handful of them in May anyhow).

It will be more spread out to be sure, but the ability to download demos is going to lessen the impact of no E3 considerably. And to be sure for those that work at E3 (I was sent by my company to check out games and get drunk apparently so I didn't technically "work" excepting a few meetings) E3 is usually cursed by most.

 

[Yusaku]

Doesn't E3 = Electronic Entertainment Expo? So why does this release refer to it as E3Expo, Electronic Entertainment Expo Expo?

 

[border]

It will be more spread out to be sure, but the ability to download demos is going to lessen the impact of no E3 considerably.

E3 forced developers to get demos made. That motivational component is gone now. Without E3 we go from hundreds of playable pre-release titles, to however many Microsoft will approve and certify for release on Marketplace....almost certain to be a fraction of what was available at E3.

Even with Marketplace, it doesn't seem like we are getting pre-release demos at a much faster rate than when OPSM and OXM were in their heyday. You can download the demos instead of coughing up ten bucks for a crappy magazine, but at the end of the day it's still just a couple demos a month.

 

[Aruarian Reflection]

WAIT, YOU MEAN IT'S NOT A THEME PARK? I'M NOT IN LINE FOR THE MARIO ROLLERCOASTER RIDE?

Everytime I think about the group of guys I personally saw "working" the Mario Kart DS tournament at E3 2005 and winning a couple dozen RC cars in the course of 1 day, I just can't help but praise the ESA

 

[chespace]

E3 forced developers to get demos made. That motivational component is gone now. Without E3 we go from hundreds of playable pre-release titles, to however many Microsoft will approve and certify for release on Marketplace....almost certain to be a fraction of what was available at E3.

Even with Marketplace, it doesn't seem like we are getting pre-release demos at a much faster rate than when OPSM and OXM were in their heyday. You can download the demos instead of coughing up ten bucks for a crappy magazine, but at the end of the day it's still just a couple demos a month.

I'd think that demos are still important for press and retailers to get their hands on the games. Nothing is really changing there.

 

[Ghengis Cohen]

I'd think that demos are still important for press and retailers to get their hands on the games. Nothing is really changing there.

This is right. Some of you don't realize that E3 demos are made for journalists and most importantly, retailers, and not fans. So in this regard demos will still be made and digital distribution will just make it easier for us to get a hold of them. I think most of you are overreacting.

 

[Zonar]

7. The Internet
The Internet generally gets the blame for bringing old establishments to their knees, and this is no exception. Information is disseminated faster and at better resolution than ever. The need to go to Los Angeles to look at a game is somewhat negated when you can download a movie, or play a demo on Xbox Live. No, it's not the same, but it's close enough to make a difference.

This is from the Next gen report, and the bolded part is so true. I went to E3 in 05 and I loveed it. BUT in 06 when I played Lost Planet at home, on my couch, I knew this was the future of the show. It was sooo much better than being there.

Off topic: do you think lost planet by Capcom

Is in any related to lost world aka forgotten world by Capcom

 

[border]

I'd think that demos are still important for press and retailers to get their hands on the games. Nothing is really changing there.

Demos for press are kind of different than demos for the public, yes? They are made with the understanding that the press usually won't bash the shit out of them if it's glitchy or rough around the edges. What motivation is there to polish a demo up to a truly publically acceptabe level if the public is never going to touch it or be given free access? And if publishers are operating on a strict embargo system, who's to say that the demo will even go out to the public until weeks/months after mini-E3?

I just can't imagine as many full, playable demos being made for small 1-hour press conferences and meetings.

 

[CarlosX360]

This is exactly the point a lot of people seem to be missing. E3 isn't for fun. It's work, whether you're a developer, journalist, or retailer, and the scenario you're describing will streamline that work and make it a lot less of a headache for everyone. Audience members (journalists/buyers) will have assignments to certain companies and meeting rooms, where they'll have to take in all (or most, if it's a big enough company for a publication to assign multiple people) of the games present and report about that. It loses a lot less spontaneity, I suppose, but that was never really the point of the show in the first place.

When I was a journalist, I always had booth assignments anyway--under the new structure, I would actually have the time and exposure I needed with the games I was SUPPOSED to be covering. That's why everyone is so relieved here.

I don't think E3's "where business gets fun" backs what you say, at all.

Doesn't E3 = Electronic Entertainment Expo? So why does this release refer to it as E3Expo, Electronic Entertainment Expo Expo?

I don't think its a trademark problem, its a domain name problem.

another company owns the e3 name. http://www.e3.com/

 

[skip]

I don't think E3's "where business gets fun" backs what you say, at all.

are you seriously using this as an argument point?

 

[Chris Remo]

I don't think E3's "where business gets fun" backs what you say, at all.

I don't think marketing slogans have anything to do with anything.

 

[CarlosX360]

are you seriously using this as an argument point?

:lol hahaha...no. :lol

More sarcastic than serious!

 

[skip]

:lol hahaha...no. :lol

More sarcastic than serious!

good.

 

[Ghengis Cohen]

Demos for press are kind of different than demos for the public, yes? They are made with the understanding that the press usually won't bash the shit out of them if it's glitchy or rough around the edges. What motivation is there to polish a demo up to a truly publically acceptabe level if the public is never going to touch it or be given free access? And if publishers are operating on a strict embargo system, who's to say that the demo will even go out to the public until weeks/months after mini-E3?

I just can't imagine as many full, playable demos being made for small 1-hour press conferences and meetings.

I give up. Games will all go to shit because people who run fansites can't go to E3 and play demos.

 

[DrLazy]

It is a sad day for gamers.

 

[Wellington]

I can't believe you're ok with the most exciting gaming event of the year going down the drain just because you're too lazy to do the legwork. If you're really that incapable of doing your job then maybe you're in the wrong business.

Eh I wasn't going to respond to this but I feel I must.

1) Just as Fallout mentioned, with the massive throngs of people and ridiculous booth setups that have become mainstays on the show floor, it's extremely difficult to get a good enough impression of a game to accurately convey the concept, execution, and quality of the product in less than 500 words. All I had to do was sports games and I couldn't even get into the Wii area, and yes, I was part of the day three maniacal run to the end of the line. Shoulder blocking some schlub who attempted to run me over into the ground is not what I call "my job".

2) It is easily the most exciting gaming event of the year, and as an enthusiast, I love it. However, I attended Hot Summer Nights last year, and the Madden event in NYC this year for different sites and I loved the format, I loved the controlled crowds and availability of devs and producers involved to discuss the games with me. I think Kohler liked Army of Two as well, and I don't know if he will agree with me when I say that the way in which it was presented in a more intimate setting in which the game could be explored was 10x better than a trailer or a kiosk surrounded by dozens. It's just a better format for me to get out to you all the information you want as a gamer that reads one of my pieces.

3) If you have read any of my pieces (which I doubt) the one thing you would pick up is how meticulous I am with gameplay detail, I think I reached over 2000 words with the Madden 06 review last year. The way things are set up at E3 I can't get to the nitty gritty the way I could say at a more private event. I refuse to put out sub-par work, so I just had to forget about a lot of shit that was shown to me at E3.

As far as it being my "job", this is something I do for fun, I don't want to consider it work. I think I do both my jobs very well so eff you buddy.

By the way my other job is construction management, so me being a girl about covering games is downright laughable.

 

[X26]

About demos, you could also argue that because E3 is going to be nearly as big, it'll translate into MORE demos and such being released. Because they can't necessarily count on media coverage, they have to try harder to sell their game to the consumer (ie: more easily accessabile trailers and demos)

 

[chespace]

Demos for press are kind of different than demos for the public, yes? They are made with the understanding that the press usually won't bash the shit out of them if it's glitchy or rough around the edges. What motivation is there to polish a demo up to a truly publically acceptabe level if the public is never going to touch it or be given free access? And if publishers are operating on a strict embargo system, who's to say that the demo will even go out to the public until weeks/months after mini-E3?

I just can't imagine as many full, playable demos being made for small 1-hour press conferences and meetings.

Polishing a demo so GAF won't say OMG LOOK AT HIS FOOT CLIPPING THROUGH TEH FLOOR is a huge red herring for game devs come E3 time every year. These demos are almost always additional work on top of any real development on the game itself -- so yeah, not having to have a super polished demo on the show floor is a lot less distracting and stressful for a dev cycle.

I can understand why you're bitching since this policy is shitty for you, the gamer.

 

[DrLazy]

Eh I wasn't going to respond to this but I feel I must.

1) Just as Fallout mentioned, with the massive throngs of people and ridiculous booth setups that have become mainstays on the show floor, it's extremely difficult to get a good enough impression of a game to accurately convey the concept, execution, and quality of the product in less than 500 words. All I had to do was sports games and I couldn't even get into the Wii area, and yes, I was part of the day three maniacal run to the end of the line. Shoulder blocking some schlub who attempted to run me over into the ground is not what I call "my job".

2) It is easily the most exciting gaming event of the year, and as an enthusiast, I love it. However, I attended Hot Summer Nights last year, and the Madden event in NYC this year for different sites and I loved the format, I loved the controlled crowds and availability of devs and producers involved to discuss the games with me. I think Kohler liked Army of Two as well, and I don't know if he will agree with me when I say that the way in which it was presented in a more intimate setting in which the game could be explored was 10x better than a trailer or a kiosk surrounded by dozens. It's just a better format for me to get out to you all the information you want as a gamer that reads one of my pieces.

3) If you have read any of my pieces (which I doubt) the one thing you would pick up is how meticulous I am with gameplay detail, I think I reached over 2000 words with the Madden 06 review last year. The way things are set up at E3 I can't get to the nitty gritty the way I could say at a more private event. I refuse to put out sub-par work, so I just had to forget about a lot of shit that was shown to me at E3.

As far as it being my "job", this is something I do for fun, I don't want to consider it work. I think I do both my jobs very well so eff you buddy.

Where do you work? Because I doubt gaming age or NeoGaf will be invited to the event under the new format.

 

[border]

I give up. Games will all go to shit because people who run fansites can't go to E3 and play demos.

Put a few more words in my mouth, why don't you? =\

All I did was disagree with the statement that "Downloadable demos will become a huge part of E3 now". Developers hate taking time off a project to complete a demo build that's suitable for the gaming public. Without the E3 pressure, I fail to see how the publically accessible demos will become even bigger (or stay at the same level of production).

I can understand why you're bitching since this policy is shitty for you, the gamer.

I wouldn't say it's "bitching"....I just fail to see how it's really a boon for Marketplace that will turn it into anything approaching an E3 equivalent.

 

[Tempy]

I just can't imagine as many full, playable demos being made for small 1-hour press conferences and meetings.

Besides demos for publishers and press, demos come in the form of downloadable demos (PC, XBOX Live), and magazine demos (PC, PS2, XBOX mags). Those won't suddenly disappear with the "death" of E3. And I'm sure the other conventions like TGS and LGC would like some playable demos as well.

 

[MattXG]

It sounds to me like the big guys realized they were spending WAY too much for WAY too little just to try and outshine the competitiors. So they came to the agreement that they are going to cut deep into the fat.


It is my belief, that in a few years, the show will almost be completely the same as the years prior to this...for a few reasons. I do look forward to next May to see what happens though.


It truly is a new generation unlike the ones before it...

 

[Wellington]

Where do you work? Because I doubt gaming age or NeoGaf will be invited to the event under the new format.

I help out at 1up and GA.

 

[thehighlight]

Hmm i don't know how to feel. I feel sad yet indifferent at the same time.

 

[JSR]

GameSpot has some new details on E3 2007. The expo will take place in a couple of hotels next July, only have around 5,000 attendees, and it'll now be called the "E3 Media Festival." Here's the full story:

While next year's newly downsized Electronic Entertainment Expo remains slated to take place in its longtime location of Los Angeles, the show is apparently going to be leaving behind its traditional May date on the calendar.

An industry analyst and a representative of the City of Los Angeles Convention and Visitors Bureau have both told GameSpot that the event's organizers at the Entertainment Software Association mentioned moving the show to July.

The idea behind the move is to give publishers more time to polish their holiday releases, the analyst said. Publishers apparently weren't pleased at rushing their schedules to have late-year releases ready for the show each May.

[UPDATE] This afternoon, ESA president Douglas Lowenstein confirmed for GameSpot that E3 2007 will indeed take place in July, though he could not pin down specific dates. He also mentioned that the event will no longer be held at the Los Angeles Convention Center, but instead will take place inside conference rooms at "probably two hotels" in the city.

[UPDATE 2] As one might expect, the relocation from the sprawling LACC means that attendance at E3 2007 will be just a fraction of the previous year. Speaking to the Wall Street Journal, Lowenstein said he expects around 5,000 people to be on-hand at next year's event, way down from the 60,000-plus-size mob that stormed the expo this past May.

Lowenstein said the drastic reduction was in response to exhibitor dissatisfaction with the spectacle E3 had become. "Some companies were frustrated because E3 was such a huge, sweeping event it became increasingly difficult to get their messages out," he told the WSJ.

Lowenstein also revealed to the WSJ that E3 is also getting a new name. Starting next year, the event will be called the "E3 Media Festival," hinting that it may offer more than just games.

Source: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6154961.html

 

[element]

Polishing a demo so GAF won't say OMG LOOK AT HIS FOOT CLIPPING THROUGH TEH FLOOR is a huge red herring for game devs come E3 time every year. These demos are almost always additional work on top of any real development on the game itself -- so yeah, not having to have a super polished demo on the show floor is a lot less distracting and stressful for a dev cycle.

There is nothing worse then showing your demo off at E3 which you have slaved over the last 2 months, only to have the person say 'yeah, that sucked...i should have played <insert game here> instead' after playing for two minutes. doing a demo, is a pain in the ass. but at the same time it was a necessary evil if you wanted to get noticed. In the new system they will probably just show off the current build of the game, and spend a little time polishing up a single level. No need for time limits, or end of demo screens. Just fire up a level, have someone play it, and go onto the next person. puts a great amount of ease on development if you don't have to make a packaged demo.

And I'm sure the other conventions like TGC and LGC would like some playable demos as well.

Not everyone can afford to go to TGS or LGC. TGS also has very specific games, far different then E3 or LGC.

 

[Future]

I just can't imagine as many full, playable demos being made for small 1-hour press conferences and meetings.

It's not going to be just press conferences and meetings. The problem with E3 of old is that companies had to spend too much money on booth presentation, booth babes, etc..things that have NOTHING to do with the games themselves to gain any attention. Not worth it for companies. So they are trying to change things so the glitz doesn't matter. There will probably still be tons of games on display, just without the expensive overhead

 

[Ghengis Cohen]

I wouldn't say it's "bitching"....I just fail to see how it's really a boon for Marketplace that will turn it into anything approaching an E3 equivalent.

Well next year there will be three consoles with downloadable services of some sort, not just Microsoft, so the competition to get noticed via demos will heat up.

 

[CarlosX360]

E3 it the most cheapest way of traveling, for me. Since I live in California.

 

[DrLazy]

Lowenstein said the drastic reduction was in response to exhibitor dissatisfaction with the spectacle E3 had become. "Some companies were frustrated because E3 was such a huge, sweeping event it became increasingly difficult to get their messages out," he told the WSJ.

Yep.

 

[DrLazy]

I help out at 1up and GA.

Well you might get to go then. I think the days of the fansite writer are numbered as far as attending E3 goes. Is that a bad thing? I guess that's left to your perspecctive (In other words, the people happy about the change will likely get to go to the event anyway.)

 

[CarlosX360]

A fansite is no longer a fansite when it aquires a business license.

So, those "fansites" can still go, just not the rest of the people who pay for the tickets, or exhibit badges.

 

[Pachinko]

I've never gone to E3 and now never will but after the way this years show was handled on Xbox marketplace I'm not sure I'm really missing much. All 3 consoles have download networks that will be up and running in time for this media festival and there's always the regular internet for trailers.

It seems to me that if you want an event to meet up with other gamers then you'll have to fall back on the Penny Arcade Expo or go to comicon which seems to have an ever increasing videogame presence.

Fact of the matter is , E3 is first and foremost meant as a way for videogame companies to showcase all of their upcoming products and for lesser known companies to find publishers. Most E3 events , however, consist of 5000 journalists and 55,000 nerds who want to play games early so they can go blog online about how a 30% complete game ran like poop.

I also don't see fewer demo's being made atleast not on 360, I mean a good portion of its lineup has a downloadable demo on live to try before you buy and it's free. Weren't there numbers to proove that playable demo's increase sales more then anything else does ?


Also E3 2006, consider that sony was the biggest complainer, they had ads all over the expo for PS3 and announced basically everythign about the console this year and the media just laughs at the pricetag. Of course they're gonna say it was a waste of money. Thanks to blogs and fansites a few games got a bad rap from the showfloor that pro sites didn't touch upon as openly. Perhaps these companies didn't like that much.

My favorite part of E3 was always the press conferences and now that's all that'll be left. I'm okay with that.

 

[CarlosX360]

Also E3 2006, consider that sony was the biggest complainer, they had ads all over the expo for PS3 and announced basically everythign about the console this year and the media just laughs at the pricetag. Of course they're gonna say it was a waste of money. Thanks to blogs and fansites a few games got a bad rap from the showfloor that pro sites didn't touch upon as openly. Perhaps these companies didn't like that much.

They embarrassed themselves, they shot their own feet with that tag, even if "bloggers" weren't there, even if "fansites" weren't there, there'd still be people bitching, ANYWAY. So, I don't think that holds any water to the fact that EA, the world's LARGEST video game publisher, complained about "people being there for no reason" I would've been fine with a small publisher saying that, but from EA, I would expect a better complaint than that. They always want more money, and attention every year, and yet, these big companies, such as Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft - get them. EA even gets some of that pie, just for being on stage. The fact of the matter is this, its EA's fault that this is happening, because they began a trend. EA threatened E3 first, everyone followed.

 

[Howard Alan Treesong]

Q: What's the difference between a demo on the Xbox Live Marketplace and a demo at E3?
A: The demo on the Xbox Live Marketplace actually gets played.

 

[chespace]

You know what I love? I love how folks here at GAF decide that they know how the games industry works just because they post in the same threads as David Jaffe or can cancel games like FCK and kill characters like Box Guy when the truth is they have not a fcuking clue what they're talking about.

Spoiler

Actually that's what I hate about GAF.

 

[Chris Remo]

They embarrassed themselves, they shot their own feet with that tag, even if "bloggers" weren't there, even if "fansites" weren't there, there'd still be people bitching, ANYWAY. So, I don't think that holds any water to the fact that EA, the world's LARGEST video game publisher, complained about "people being there for no reason" I would've been fine with a small publisher saying that, but from EA, I would expect a better complaint than that. They always want more money, and attention every year, and yet, these big companies, such as Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft - get them. EA even gets some of that pie, just for being on stage. The fact of the matter is this, its EA's fault that this is happening, because they began a trend. EA threatened E3 first, everyone followed.

Why would you expect a smaller publisher to say that, and EA not to? That makes no sense at all. EA is huge, they can hold their own events--hell, they already do, and that's where all the big news outlets get most of their coverage of EA games.

 

[BuddyC]

You know what I love? I love how folks here at GAF decide that they know how the games industry works just because they post in the same threads as David Jaffe or can cancel games like FCK and kill characters like Box Guy when the truth is they have not a fcuking clue what they're talking about.

Spoiler

Actually that's what I hate about GAF.

What about the guys that sit next to you at Konami's press conference?

 

[Howard Alan Treesong]

IF YOU'RE HAVIN' FANBOY PROBLEMS I FEEL BAD FOR YOU SON
I GOT 99 PROBLEMS BUT E3 AIN'T ONE!

HIT ME!

 

[CarlosX360]

Why would you expect a smaller publisher to say that, and EA not to? That makes no sense at all. EA is huge, they can hold their own events--hell, they already do, and that's where all the big news outlets get most of their coverage of EA games.

Well, that's what I'm saying, if they want to hold their own events, then let them, why let this be the devine reason to reconstruct E3 into something else? If anything, if I was ESA, I would care less of what EA thinks, and go on with the bigger companies, such as Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, I mean, its not ESA's loss if EA wants to be stupid about it, and hold their own shit.

 

[chespace]

What about the guys that sit next to you at Konami's press conference?

Those are okay. Unless their user name is 'imastalker co'

Also, to the last poster -- did you miss the memo where it was reported that it was EA, along with all the major players (N, Sony, MS, etc.) who demanded a change in the format of the show?

 

[element]

Q: What's the difference between a demo on the Xbox Live Marketplace and a demo at E3?
A: The demo on the Xbox Live Marketplace actually gets played.

I guess all those lines for playing Wii, and Shadowrun, Crackdown, N3, Too Human were just a mirage.

Big difference between a Marketplace demo and a E3 Floor demo is level of polish. Something like Too Human or Shadowrun would NEVER be released as a demo to the public.

 

[fallout]

Just wanted to say thanks to Wellington, Chris Remo, Dragona, etc. for filling out my thoughts (whether you were trying to or not). Oddly enough, work and school have been a little maddening lately, so I was furiously trying to spill my thoughts out and I don't think it was as clear as it could have been.

 

[Pachinko]

I only brought up sony becuase omg crabs lol

I understand it was basically all the big companies coming togethor and wondering why they blow so much money for such apparently small gains.


So uh.. yeah. Bring on mini E3.

 

[CarlosX360]

Also, to the last poster -- did you miss the memo where it was reported that it was EA, along with all the major players (N, Sony, MS, etc.) who demanded a change in the format of the show?

I saw that. It's just that EA was the main reason for this happening.

You can call me Carlos, damn, its not that bad. :lol

EA: Make a smaller E3, or I will pick up my bags, and make my own shit.

E3: Suit yourself.

Nintendo: I want changes, or I will ****ing leave.

E3: Alright, then, I'll consider it. {screw you EA)

Sony: I want to see changes, or I will make my own megashow.

E3: ****in' EA, fine, I'll make some changes!

Microsoft: I follow, too...I'm sorry, but I agree.

E3: **** THIS SHIT! I'm talking to the execs!

 

[Howard Alan Treesong]

I guess all those lines for playing Wii, and Shadowrun, Crackdown, N3, Too Human were just a mirage.

People waiting in line are not actually playing the game, you nattering nincompoop!!

 

[element]

People waiting in line are not actually playing the game, you nattering nincompoop!!

umm, they get to play it at somepoint.