Fenderputty
Banned
Maybe if you add Lebron's GM'ing to his list of accomplishments you can include him in the top ... wait.
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ESPN Ranks LeBron as the #3 NBA Player All-Time. What say you?
- Thread starter GhostWriter24
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TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
What would Jordan do???
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Kobe is the closest anyone ever got to actually being "the next Jordan". I remember watching him win the All Starvweekend dunk contest back in the 90s and even as a Bulls fan I was telling people this guy could be the next Jordan.
Kobe is fucking spectacular. But there's only 1 Michael Jordan and he's in a league of his own.
LyleLanley
Banned
You people are ridiculous.
Mo Williams was an All-Star when he played with LeBron...Mo Williams.
No problem with LeBron being ahead of Magic. His career reached a higher peak and had more longevity than Magic.
I think Russell and Duncan have strong arguments over LeBron, though.
Exactly, people would be saying the same shit they say about Dwight Howard.
I think Russell and Duncan have strong arguments over LeBron, though.
Exactly, people would be saying the same shit they say about Dwight Howard.
We're done here.
friskykillface
Banned
Bird > LeBron
Bird the god can hit endless jumpers at Brons age, Bron is struggling
if refs called his train power move into the lane x push offs he'd have a horrible season
Bird the god can hit endless jumpers at Brons age, Bron is struggling
if refs called his train power move into the lane x push offs he'd have a horrible season
Mo was pretty good before he got to Cleveland, he had comparable stats his last 2 seasons with the bucks as he did his all-star season.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
People act like he's a scrub, that dude can shoot.
You are not kidding. What an atrocious layout.
Ninja Scooter
Member
If you think LeBron James being one of the best 10 players of all time is "debatable" then you should just stop trying to talk about basketball.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
It is though.
You tell me.
LyleLanley
Banned
It's debatable in the sense that any of these subjective lists are debatable but it really isn't.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Of course it is, tons of great players from incomparable eras.
If you go by straight up numbers, it isn't but if you go by other things, it's very debatable.
The Last Emperor
Member
Jordan
Russell
Kaj
Duncan
Magic
Bird
Kobe
Chamberlain
Shaq
Hakeem
Oscar
Lebron
Russell
Kaj
Duncan
Magic
Bird
Kobe
Chamberlain
Shaq
Hakeem
Oscar
Lebron
Battersea Power Station
Member
Honestly, I'm not sure I'd put him in the top 50 of this season alone. Gallinari has been phenomenal.
I didn't even bother to go to the list, the webpage as much of ESPN is a joke.
GhostWriter24
Member
Added list to OP. Took a fair amount of research though, Christ. Horrendous presentation on that site for such a huge feature.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/lebron-may-be-the-most-clutch-playoff-shooter-of-his-generation/
Of course what those charts actually show are that there probably isn't any real difference between clutch performance and normal performance other than sample size. Ray Allen and Kobe being in the bottom 10, for example.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
I think everything is debatable, I'd personally put Magic over Kareem.
I shouldn't punish Kareem for being 7'4" and having an unblockable skyhook though.
I shouldn't punish Kareem for being 7'4" and having an unblockable skyhook though.
Ninja Scooter
Member
It is if you base your basketball knowledge on what the ESPN comments section and Skip Bayless say.
I don't think there's anyone in here arguing that he is definitely not a top 10, I think most of us agree it's not ridiculous to place him top ten. Number 3 though, dude? Really?
totally agreed, I'm just saying that in recent years as the decline of kobe really kicked in there's been a shift in the narrative surrounding him
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
So we are to take your word for it over the guy who is number 1 on the list???
I have Jordan, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Shaq, Wilt, Kareem and Duncan all above Lebron.
If Steph keeps up this pace he's going to be up there too.
I'd personally put Lebron in the top 10 of all time but it's close. Definitely debatable imo.
he was so valuable that his team lost the series
he was the best player on the court, no doubt, but finals mvp is entirely different
If Steph keeps up this pace he's going to be up there too.
I'd personally put Lebron in the top 10 of all time but it's close. Definitely debatable imo.
he was so valuable that his team lost the series
he was the best player on the court, no doubt, but finals mvp is entirely different
Ninja Scooter
Member
Too early? He's played more seasons than some of the best players ever.
Locked Out
Banned
Can't think of another player in the top 10 that has so obviously quit and sulked when all looked lost on so many occasions. Dude can play. But he's also a chump.
Fenderputty
Banned
Right we should accept trash Windhorst rights and accept him at 3 instead.
Atomic Playboy
Member
Using team success to measure an individual's performance seems like a really poor metric. By that logic, Horry is better than Jordan and John Salley is better than Hakeem Olajuwon. It seems like something people latch onto as an argument to dismiss the accomplishments of players they don't personally like (2-4 in the Finals, he SUCKS) but conveniently ignore when it doesn't fit their narrative (look at Wilt's individual statistics... just ignore his record in the playoffs). But opinions on individual athletes in comparison to others across 60+ years are inherently biased and completely subjective, so whatever.
That said, LeBron at number 3? That's a bit of a stretch. I'm not a LeBron hater by any stretch of the imagination, but with Jordan, Magic, Kareem and Duncan, you've already got 4 players I'd unequivocally place above LeBron, and that's discounting Russell who I've always felt was slightly overrated. LeBron is obviously a Top 10, there's no question in my mind, but top 3 at this point... no.
He's miles ahead of Kobe though.
That said, LeBron at number 3? That's a bit of a stretch. I'm not a LeBron hater by any stretch of the imagination, but with Jordan, Magic, Kareem and Duncan, you've already got 4 players I'd unequivocally place above LeBron, and that's discounting Russell who I've always felt was slightly overrated. LeBron is obviously a Top 10, there's no question in my mind, but top 3 at this point... no.
He's miles ahead of Kobe though.
Violence Jack
Member
It's hard to even place him in the top 5. Top 3? Hell no. I'd put Duncan higher than Lebron.
Keep up what pace? He'd have to have 10+ additional seasons of what he's doing this year to even remotely be in the discussion of being above Lebron.
Would you bet on that?
Ninja Scooter
Member
You must not know much about how Wilt, Kareem and even Magic (or should I say Tragic) Johnson were viewed at certain points of their careers.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Shaq and TD were more dominant IMO.
MushroomSamba
Member
Yikes, I think Lebron is great and all, but I wouldn't put him in top 10 ALL-TIME. With maybe the exception of Tim Duncan, Lebron shouldn't be ahead of any of those guys.
Atomic Playboy
Member
If Steph manages to do that, he'll supplant Jordan, let alone LeBron. But I don't think that's terribly likely (shame though that is; dude is fun to watch).
BadAss2961
Member
Wilt is pretty underrated. It takes several championships of greatness to overcome the sheer numbers he put up. Can't put LeBron ahead of him when they have the same number of rings.
LyleLanley
Banned
I like the idea that LeBrons sulking should take him down a few notches but no one gives a shit about Wilt stat padding in losing games. If LeBron tried to go for 50 or whatever in a blowout loss he'd be vilified.
Seriously. And even Jordan was viewed as a bum who only cared about his shoes and his own numbers and didn't make his teammates better. That was all you ever heard here in the Chicago media until he won a championship or two.
Boombloxer
Member
To be fair, Kobe has said something similar in the past. He and LBJ are different types of players--Kobe is a scorer first and second, playmaker third. LBJ is a playmaker first. So Lebron is the more well rounded player, but Kobe is the better scorer, period, from clutch shots to making bad shots to I can go get 50/60/81. MJ, Kareem, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe were completely unstoppable for most of their careers.
I'm sure when Simmons is in year 5 for LA and getting ring 1 the same comparisons will pop up.
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