assurdum
Banned
Hooligans are a thing though. No one says the rest of Europe is "pure" and more innocent anyway.
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Azurro
Banned
I wouldn't say it's hard to find the asshole supporters. When I was in Bratislava and ran into a bunch of British guys, we started talking about football and they just went on on how great and better the PL is and assumed I only support Juve because of Ronaldo.
You might be self deprecating, but you still think you are great and owed a win and are just underperforming. Is that an unreasonable position? I don't know, maybe not, but it's still arrogant.
Not everyone is like this, of course, but on the whole, are you guys arrogant about football? That's like asking if the sky is blue.
assurdum
Banned
"Common". It's a stupid attitude and I wouldn't defend it. It's not like I would clap my hand or justify it if Italy would do the same.
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dr_octagon
Banned
congrats to Italy, England did well to get to final.
the game, players and management aside. the rushing of security at Wembley, overcrowding the stadium, people being violent isn't a sight you want to be associated with. even if there are not enough security or police officers, people should know better.
of course it's not reflective of all the fans and all countries have their problems. no decent people consider it acceptable and it shouldn't be an excuse by others to tar the entire country with the same brush either.
the game, players and management aside. the rushing of security at Wembley, overcrowding the stadium, people being violent isn't a sight you want to be associated with. even if there are not enough security or police officers, people should know better.
of course it's not reflective of all the fans and all countries have their problems. no decent people consider it acceptable and it shouldn't be an excuse by others to tar the entire country with the same brush either.
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How do you call it when multiple people throw punches and kicks at a single person, with the stewards watching or even helping them?
Also, did I say ANYWHERE that other fans are any better? I actually said that I'm disappointed in seeing this behavior from english fans, as for me they were the ones to take as an example, until now.
I also know that it's not something which should be generalized, but usually the others english supporters are the ones avoiding that shit like this happens, by helping out instead of joining in.
So stop defending something which was clearly bad and hope that something like this doesn't happen again, from some shitty english fans or other shitty people.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
Going back to the football, Southgate’s game management and tactics were shocking. Happy to sit back and absorb the pressure. Also, the penalty misses were shocking. Young players sure but all professionals getting paid millions per year.
Dr.Morris79
Gold Member
I always stick flares up my arse? Football or not, who doesnt?When everybody tells you you're drunk, maybe it's time to sit down. England was a complete circus for the past week or so and now you're acting like in that Chappelle Black Bush skit.
"We were self-deprecating when we did a World War Z on Wembley with flares up our arses" lmao
The mother in law loves it, always brings a smile at the dinner table..
SoggyBiscuit
Banned
It's a stupid attitude to be disappointed in defeat? Okay.
Also, who is applauding anyone for taking off their medal. You can be sad and disappointed about a loss but as I said before, it's not some grand statement from England players by taking their medals off.
We saw this from both City and United players earlier this season after they both lost in their respective European finals.
But I guess it must just be an English thing and we're terrible for removing a runners up medal.
Anything else you want to scrutinise us for that's a totally understandable and common occurrence within the game?
Dr.Morris79
Gold Member
I'm sure you'd be cracking em in night and day with 60.000+ people watching, cheering, calling you all the names under the sun and knowing millions upon millions of people are tuning in on the TV..
I dont think any amount of money would stop you being human.
SirKicksalot
Member
I think Sky gave Saka a 10 and player of the match, because he was too young to handle the pressure.
That's a 19-year-old player with more professional experience than most people at 29, who regularly works in a high-pressure environment and has access to the best of the best care, support and aides. And now he's being coddled.
assurdum
Banned
I don't scrutinise anything. I found it a bad gesture and that's what I said. Be disappointed it's a thing, act as if you deserve it more (for who know what reason) it's another. It's not like they showed an indisputable superiority during the match eh. A bit of humbleness and self-conscious it's not a bad thing.
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RoyalLaFlame
Banned
I know where it comes from. The problem is how people get irritated by it, and some of England supporters behavior is deplorable. The amount of english people that I met with the smug attitude and the lack of respect for other national teams is astounding. I respect when your anthem is playing, at least i expect you to do the same when mine plays. i know not everyone is like that, but these behaviors are your country’s responsability.“Footballs coming home” is a 90’s reference to England hosting the game, not winning it. so I think you youll find it it did come home in this instance
While I’m sure all these smug and arrogant England fans do exist, I’m quite confident they don’t exist at the same concentration as some people claim they do. Most fans I know (myself included) are just pleased that they came this far, given the decades generally poor performances in prior major tournament. Perhaps it makes people feel better about themselves, while they shit over a team that actually did quite well, and made their supporters proud this year.
I’m Portuguese and we are also really passionate about football, but one thing we don’t do is continue beating our chest how Portugal is fucking great and how others are shit. The overconfidence is what annoys me in some English fans and their constant bs of how their league is better than the others.
Anyway, this is nothing serious and I don’t hate England or english people in any way. Always had respect for you guys. But the southern part of Europe is well known for supporting each other during these times, so I’m really happy Italy won.
But hey, I know that some of you will say “not everyone” but i don’t care. If the minority of them is loud enough, it’s your nation’s/national football federation/government job to take care of it. For some reason, we usually don’t like having your football supporters in our country.
SoggyBiscuit
Banned
What part of removing a medal suggests they're not humble?
We're just going to have to agree to disagree because it's not as deep as you seem to think it is.
Prison Mike
Banned
Proud of us getting to the final was just what we needed after all this lockdown. Italy thoroughly deserved the win so fair play.
Dr.Morris79
Gold Member
Couldnt agree more.
How many yellows were they up to? Well deserved. Best team. I just hope during the world cup they bring a few bear traps and lassos, it'd save their feet and hands getting dirty..
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SoggyBiscuit
Banned
I have to say, I was surprised that Jorginho was still on the pitch after that tackle on Grealish. Other than that, typical niggling little fouls and expert gamesmanship that I expect from an Italy side.Couldnt agree more.
How many yellows were they up to? Well deserved. Best team. I just hope during the world cup they bring a few bear traps and lassos, it'd save their feet and hands getting dirty..
Let's not pretend they weren't largely the better side over the 120 minutes, they made their in game tactical tweaks and changes to great effect and we couldn't get a sniff of the ball for large spells.
I'd hoped once we got the first goal we might press that advantage and go for the jugular but it just never happened for whatever reason, I know Southgate is a pragmatist, but he can't have hoped that we would shut the Italians out for 85+ minutes, there had to be more, especially given the wealth of attackers we have.
Dr.Morris79
Gold Member
Agreed, as painful as it is! And Southgate could have done a bit more which is true
Only a year to wait though..
Not sure I can take another one mind you! It was heartbreaking!
SoggyBiscuit
Banned
Better to have loved and lost. This summer was wonderful, to even see England in a final is beyond my wildest expectations.
Can't wait to be arrogant next year when we bring it home!!
Yes they do.
DKehoe
Gold Member
I've seen plenty of fans, around the world and for a variety of sports, do similar things. I don't see the argument that the English ones are objectively worse. People are just people, there's good and bad. Get a big enough group and some are gonna act like assholes.
Dr.Morris79
Gold Member
It was eye opening to say the least! Couldnt be happier for them, they were brilliant, bringing the nation together was just what we need after the last eighteen months, i've nothing but admiration for them lads.Better to have loved and lost. This summer was wonderful, to even see England in a final is beyond my wildest expectations.
Can't wait to be arrogant next year when we bring it home!!
..I'm already unpacking my arrogant behaviour for next year, theres so much of it I thought i'd get a head start!
Pretty much how it went down
Pretty much me and my family and friends love watching world cup to hope England lose. It's all a bit of banter. We are all British but ancestors not from England. It's just very hard to support England I can't imagine going down the local pub shouting come on Englang it's coming home then have some football hooligans call me something that's racist. That's pretty much now most ethnic minority fans are like. I have Italian friends who support Italy but born in England. I have a Argentinian friend who supports Argentina. I have friends where their country are not even in the world cup but they support another team that's not England like Brazil even though they are not Brazilian.
Nitty_Grimes
Made a crappy phPBB forum once ... once.
Ouch. Some twat has put Scotland and Wales in the red bit.
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FunkMiller
Member
Don't you think wishing your national team loses, just because a bunch of arseholes they have nothing to do with are racist to you, makes you a bit of a cunt?
Millions and millions of perfectly decent people, who wouldn't ever be racist to you, were hoping for the team to win. Your fellow countrymen and women.
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Dr.Morris79
Gold Member
Glad i'm not the only one who thought that was a bit.. odd.
I think most ethnic minorities I know don't really intergrate with British people as much. It's mainly work and school. But when it comes with building communities it's building community centres, mosques, temples and etc. In Birmingham for example there are loads of asain people in picket areas and not really spread out. It's just the way if is. They don't hate England they actually prefer it to their ansestors country due to opputurnities. But just can't intergrate enough for example lots of etchincs don't have a drinking culture and never would see them in a pub.
sircaw
Banned
I love you funk haha, tell those haters how it really is.
On a serious note, i think it is rather sad how many people want England to fail so badly, all based on what is essentially a tiny portion of a few bad eggs in society.
I support England through and through and even give the Scots and welsh a cheer now and again when they play, i find it sad and disheartening there are so many people that hate us for no good reasons.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I think when it comes to sports, it depends if there is a viable option for minorities or immigrants to root for instead of the home team.
In Canada, most people root for the home team for hockey, second option is any Canadian team, third option is a US team. That doesn't mean Leaf fans cant hate Habs or someone wants to cheer for Boston (Boston is probably the most liked US team) . But that's a typical pecking order. Nobody roots for some no-name league in another country because Canada wins or makes the finals in most tournaments and most countries dont even play ice hockey anyway even if they scrape up a team for a tournament as the 16th best team.
For basketball, everyone roots for an NBA team. Mostly Toronto Raptors, second is probably Lakers, Celtics third. There's good European and South American leagues, but I have never heard anyone bring up those leagues ever.
For soccer, even though EPL, and whatever Italian and Spanish leagues have the best teams, people probably cheer for weak country teams because the sport has enough decent teams and leagues around the world and teams probably have enough semi star power because some of the players play in well known leagues, so there's something to root for.
The sport is low scoring as a whole, so even a team getting dominated may only lose 2-0. So on the score sheet it still looks close, so cheering for a country team that wont go anywhere is still a close game.
In basketball, the US team wins almost every match by 30 pts and weak teams in hockey lose 9-0. Hard to cheer for the weaker country team when it's a disaster after the first half an hour.
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FunkMiller
Member
That is certainly true, and contrary to a lot of the narrative around England and its inhabitants, that lack of integration is down to reluctance on the part of the ethnic minority to integrate, and is not due to vast amounts of racism on the part of all the white folks.
It is actually largely due to cultural and religious considerations that these communities are totally unwilling to alter in any way. For instance: the UK is a very tolerant nation towards homosexuality, but certain ethnic communities most certainly are not due to their religious beliefs, and so therefore refuse to integrate more, because their ultra conservative views are not shared by the broad populace. The same holds true for women's rights.
There is a nasty undercurrent of racism and hate aimed at ethnic minorities in the UK, that much is most certainly true - but it comes from a small minority, who the rest of us would like to see silenced permanently.
The issue is we'd also like to see bigoted members of our ethnic communities silenced as well, but that is all swept under the carpet in the name of 'tolerance' towards religious belief.
You might also want to reflect that deliberately hoping the English football team loses is extremely divisive given how much football is a part of the British identity - contributing to that lack of integration.
In the end it doenst really matter as long as everyone is happy. Most ethnic minorities I know are happy they have made money own property, have decent jobs in this country built a community and have a lot of friends and family. Not supporting England football team is not illegal. Going around and beating people up and making litter is
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Totally. Canada is just like the UK. Heck, were all part of the Commonwealth.
Whether someone roots for the home country or not in sports, who cares.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I think England played awful and deserved to lose. They had no energy and let Italy control the game pretty much immediately after they scored early in the game. It was like they were ready to park the bus after the 2nd minute. I believe they didnt get the second shot on goal until like the 70th or 80th minute.
Italian players on the other hand continued to make great runs, they lacked a good goal scorer which is the only reason why they didnt score. I believe the possession was 71-29% at one point which is just embarrassing for a game between two big teams.
I wasn't even surprised when all three black players missed the penalties. Two of them were brought on in the 120th minute after sitting out the whole game. They had no time to warm up. And the other kid was just 19. And there are plenty of 19 year olds who look 30 and play like 30 year olds but this kid looked 19. Whoever decided to have him take a penalty, let alone the last penalty should be fired.
Not surprised that they are getting racial abuse thrown their way, but the way I look at it, the fact that three black men went out to take penalties shows England isnt some racist paradise a lot of people are making it out to be. They are getting racist abuse because they are black. If three white players from say Liverpool missed back to back penalties, they would get liverpool specific insults. It sucks and doesnt excuse racism but I see the bigger picture and I cant get too upset over that many black players being given a chance at the biggest stage. I dont see any systematic racism preventing them from getting chances which is ultimately what matters. people will be cunts and its up to Twitter and Facebook to clean that up.
P.S I dont think i have ever seen this many penalties being blocked or missed in a tournament, ever. Every game had like 2-3 missed penalties. 5 here and you gotta wonder just wtf the coaching is doing teaching players to be cute. Look at the Harry McGuire and Kane penalties. Thats why you are supposed to do. Pick a corner and just blast it. Take the guessing game out of it. Doesnt matter if the goalie guesses right or wrong.
/rant. Ridiculously frustrating game to watch. only one team showed up. Fire the management because the talent is there. They dont need to play such defensive football.
Italian players on the other hand continued to make great runs, they lacked a good goal scorer which is the only reason why they didnt score. I believe the possession was 71-29% at one point which is just embarrassing for a game between two big teams.
I wasn't even surprised when all three black players missed the penalties. Two of them were brought on in the 120th minute after sitting out the whole game. They had no time to warm up. And the other kid was just 19. And there are plenty of 19 year olds who look 30 and play like 30 year olds but this kid looked 19. Whoever decided to have him take a penalty, let alone the last penalty should be fired.
Not surprised that they are getting racial abuse thrown their way, but the way I look at it, the fact that three black men went out to take penalties shows England isnt some racist paradise a lot of people are making it out to be. They are getting racist abuse because they are black. If three white players from say Liverpool missed back to back penalties, they would get liverpool specific insults. It sucks and doesnt excuse racism but I see the bigger picture and I cant get too upset over that many black players being given a chance at the biggest stage. I dont see any systematic racism preventing them from getting chances which is ultimately what matters. people will be cunts and its up to Twitter and Facebook to clean that up.
P.S I dont think i have ever seen this many penalties being blocked or missed in a tournament, ever. Every game had like 2-3 missed penalties. 5 here and you gotta wonder just wtf the coaching is doing teaching players to be cute. Look at the Harry McGuire and Kane penalties. Thats why you are supposed to do. Pick a corner and just blast it. Take the guessing game out of it. Doesnt matter if the goalie guesses right or wrong.
/rant. Ridiculously frustrating game to watch. only one team showed up. Fire the management because the talent is there. They dont need to play such defensive football.
Dr.Morris79
Gold Member
Fire the managment that got them to the first final in fifty five years?
Dont think that'll happen.
GymWolf
Member
I want your tag.I don't know for the UK but for an Italian the "it's coming home" attitude is something arrogant but this is simply because we have a different culture. We have something called "Scaramanzia" which would prevent us from singing such a song.
However, apart from the violent and the stupidity of wbooing the national anthem (which unfortunately happens everywhere) I liked the English fans a lot.
But .... It's Coming Rome
FunkMiller
Member
It was the age old problem for the England team: buckling under pressure. They held up against it longer this time, but it got to them in the final. The first fifteen minutes were the team we'd had in the rest of the tournament, and then they realised they might have a chance to actually win... and choked.
Southgate didn't chase the win, either. He sat back, too afraid to go forward in case Italy caught them on the rebound. Seen it time and time again with the England team. That's why we keep losing on penalties so much. Good teams ruined by fear. Better to lose 2-1 in normal time, than on penalties.
GamingKaiju
Member
Overall I think England had a great tournament. We got to the finals without a penalty shoot out we only let 2 goals in throughout the entire tournament.
Screw the haters and the idiot fans who tarnish the rest of us.
Italy woke up in the second half it was a strange game.
Can’t wait for the World Cup next year here’s hoping for a England v Italy final 2.0.
Screw the haters and the idiot fans who tarnish the rest of us.
Italy woke up in the second half it was a strange game.
Can’t wait for the World Cup next year here’s hoping for a England v Italy final 2.0.
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thief183
Member
Scaramanzia is a term we use to describe "the attitude of not doing some actions cause it will bring bad luck", for example you will not see an italian do a tatoo like that before the match cause it will bring you bad luck, I dunno if I manage to explain it a in english
Maybe another way to explain it is that we don't celebrate in advance cause it will bring bad luck.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yeah, guess so.
But if we are looking at who to blame, i think the coaching and the management are to be blamed. Aside from the penalties, I think the only player who deserves criticism is Sterling who was fucking awful.
DKehoe
Gold Member
I dunno if you're familiar with the term but it's sort of the equivalent of the idea of someone jinxing something?Scaramanzia is a term we use to describe "the attitude of not doing some actions cause it will bring bad luck", for example you will not see an italian do a tatoo like that before the match cause it will bring you bad luck, I dunno if I manage to explain it a in english
Maybe another way to explain it is that we don't celebrate in advance cause it will bring bad luck.
Bladed Thesis
Member
Where Jorginho's foot slipped off the ball and studs hit Grealish thigh?
Cockles & Whelks
Banned
I can say with some certainty I never want to hear "It's Coming Home" ever again. World in Motion was always leagues better. New Order Vs Baddiel and Skinner. No contest.
Nitty_Grimes
Made a crappy phPBB forum once ... once.
And return sweet Caroline back to the darts.
Bullet Club
Banned
People earlier in this thread calling that a “tactical foul” lol. Had this been an English player fouling an Italian in this way, we’d never hear the end of the ‘cheating’ claims. Such confirmation bias.Couldnt agree more.
How many yellows were they up to? Well deserved. Best team. I just hope during the world cup they bring a few bear traps and lassos, it'd save their feet and hands getting dirty..
There’s a tendency to find the worst examples of English fan behaviour, or arrogant commentary and tar all fans with the same brush. Complaining about “arrogance” is all the England-haters have left, because they can’t bring themselves to congratulate a team that made it to the final, and held the winners off until penalties. If this was any other team, there would be congratulations and commiserations all around. These people want talk about English bad sportsmanship, but can’t even bring themselves to say congratulations. This says more about the poor sportsmanship of other supporters than anyone else’s.
I’d rather be an England fan, than an England hater. What a sad little world they must live in.
SoggyBiscuit
Banned
Yeah, I've seen them given citing dangerous play or whatnot. Wasn't the prettiest challenge.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I didnt watch the medals part, so I didnt see them take them off.
But anyone yanking off the medal because they are pissed they didnt get gold is totally disrepectful.
As you said, England played crap anyway. If I read the summaries correct, I think England only had one shot on net (the goal). Thats it. They were lucky they get it to penalty kicks.
Sometimes in hockey tournaments you see some pissed players take off the medal. More understandable (though still disrespectful) because in those games, the matches are close and hockey has a lot of weird rebounds and lucky deflections going in. In soccer, most goals scored are not lucky bounces and a team can dominate with pure ball possession. England didnt lose due to a bad bounce.
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DKehoe
Gold Member
Players taking off their runners up medals as soon as they get them is not exclusive to England, or even international tournaments. It happens all the time at the club level as well. Getting handed a medal after experiencing one of the biggest disappointments of your career must feel incredibly strange and athletes at that level are all incredibly competitive and don't want to settle for second place. So it's not surprising that it happens.
SoggyBiscuit
Banned
It has routinely baffled me that this take keeps popping up. Why does everyone keep saying it's a sign of disrespect when it's clearly one of disappointment and shame.
Must be a lot of first time sports viewers on GAF.