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Europa Universalis IV MP Community Thread of Swedish rail defeating armies - Part II
- Thread starter fanboi
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Kab is a really smart player, kinda unbelievable how far he is getting with his "I am not that good!"-play.
We are seeing right through you, Kab!
So you want to end up like Gelre and Ming I see.
Definitely this. He was amazing as England last session.
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Deleted member 231381
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Confession: I've never had a successful Gelre game either.
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Deleted member 231381
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I had a good Scotland game, but it helped that France beat them so hard they were forced to release Wales and then the War of the Roses absolutely wrecked them. I've had a really good and fun game as Georgia where I formed Byzantium. Never played Wallachia, I've played Gelre twice and got annexed both times, and one Ming game which was fairly successful but also so dull I quit.
I actually wonder what would happen if we ALL took failure states
I call Albania
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Deleted member 231381
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Chimu?
Surprisingly, actually worse than Albania if the Paradox forums are to be believed. There are actually people who managed to survive and succeed as freakin' Albania.
Months, please, it was like years, maybe 12 or something. That's like almost as old as your girls.
My current Scotland Ironman game is going so much better than this. Another war and England is going to crumble definitively. In this MP the 2 sessions that I missed at the beginning have sealed the faith of Scotland and I'm just playing survival and catch up since. Because of stupid AI I lost all the head start that I had in colonization and now I have to move again because NA is so damn crowded. (and because Kab has finally settled down).
Haha, do you hear that Fanboi? 12 years!
I've feared you ever since I lost like 150,000 men in Lappland thanks to your clever trickery
I fear your alliance with MGO.
Mgoblue201
Won't stop picking the right nation
That was not the best game I've ever played. I lost two provinces to France in the beginning and a few months later my king died and I languished in a regency council for 11 years. Good news is that I'm almost back into positive prestige, which I haven't had since converting to protestantism.
I've feared you ever since I lost like 150,000 men in Lappland thanks to your clever trickery
Ah yes, Swedish Steel!
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Deleted member 125677
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I actually wonder what would happen if we ALL took failure states
what would be a top tier failure state for a bottom tier picker?
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Deleted member 231381
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Probably Novgorod, it is barely even a failure-state these days.
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Deleted member 125677
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Please don't pick a failure state for the next game
Please, is my name KingSnake? It was just a thought experience for a scenario where this actually was a rule for next session.
I'm playing the meta-game right now, you know. Got to make sure I get to pick first or at least go right after FACE next session.
Next game I will pick a country closer to you.
And last time I picked Portugal and my allies better than Valhelm and I finished the game well.
Please, is my name KingSnake? It was just a thought experience for a scenario where this actually was a rule for next session.
I'm playing the meta-game right now, you know. Got to make sure I get to pick first or at least go right after FACE next session.
I think FACE probably first, then you based on how the game is now yeah. KingSnake mainly got dicked by the AI flopping, so not really fair to give him a super low rating.
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oh shit, KS, it was just a joke about the fate of Scotland this round. I have no idea how you've played earlier, since I just joined. I assume you're pretty good based on the amount of hours you've put in, and would not rate you low by any means.
But by all means, feel free to hold grudge, it was a silly comment
But by all means, feel free to hold grudge, it was a silly comment
oh shit, KS, it was just a joke about the fate of Scotland this round. I have no idea how you've played earlier, since I just joined. I assume you're pretty good based on the amount of hours you've put in, and would not rate you low by any means.
But by all means, feel free to hold grudge, it was a silly comment
Don't be fooled by the number of hours, I just leave the game running in the background to listen to the music.
)And I was joking, the only one against whom everyone holds grudge in this game is Crab.
But I do pick failure states even in the SP games, I like the challenge.
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Deleted member 231381
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The only people who should really hold a grudge against me are Valhelm and mgo, and in mgo's case it wasn't even my fault - I was perfectly fine with letting mgo have France and wanted to divide it with him, but toma and fanboi insisted I stop him, so really the grudge should be against them. I was just a pawn. You especially shouldn't hold a grudge, KingSnake - for a man with a lot of colonies and until recently no good allies, there was an awful lot of opportunity to steal your juicy Caribbean provinces which I politely refrained from. I was actually going to offer you an alliance when France bailed on you, but I was... otherwise occupied, and by the time I was ready to commit again you were with haly. Iberia is actually a peaceful and friendly nation - as the Catalan nation, we feel for the Scots.
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I hold grudge against myself and GOD
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Deleted member 231381
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The trouble is, there's usually a dichotomy between a) being far away from other players, and b) being powerful. There's an incentive for players to choose to play in Europe, because any tech that isn't Western, Eastern or Ottoman has just completely non-competitive armies by the end of the game unless said player has an enormous empire that can succeed through sheer size of armies. However, as players crowd into Europe, they reduce their expansion chances because expanding against players is difficult and therefore make the relative advantages of being outside Europe higher. Theoretically, if you played enough games and people chose nations only for the start potential and all people had equal skill, you'd reach an equilibrium with exactly the right positions so there was a Europe so crowded that it cancelled out the tech advantage; but I think the equilibrium is quite strongly weighted towards a 'very-crowded Europe'. If lots of players go RotW to avoid contact, the European players will clean house. I wouldn't pick Japan in multiplayer unless I was sure that I could build a much larger empire than anyone in Europe by the time they reached me. For example, I think it would be quite a poor idea to have picked Japan in this game if you seriously wanted to compete. A lot of the European powers are already pretty damn terrifying in size and it is only 1540.
This, incidentally, is why the Ottomans are usually the best start in a multiplayer game by far. You have a good tech group, but you're also spaced so that you have a lot of neighbours with much worse tech groups, which means the constraints on quality vs quantity are much more slack than they are for both other nations.
EDIT: Also, no offence, but your problem wasn't really a bad nation start, nor was it (directly) being close to another player. Portugal is a very good nation, not top tier but close. It was a) bad luck and b) poor diplomacy. It was bad luck because I PU'd Castile. Standard Portugal/Aragon multiplayer is dividing Castile - you need both of them to do it, so they have to work together to do that, and if they do work together, once Castile is gone they're both large enough that the prospect of attacking one another is a bit daunting. Not to say it won't happen, but it would require planning and so on. Because I PU'd Castile very early on (admittedly though no real skill), Castile is gone and yet defeating you is easy, so I have quite a large incentive to do it. This is where the diplomacy comes in - you should probably have noticed that I would have reason to go for you, and start secretly looking for allies - France would be key, simply because I was also allied with France, so if I DoW'd you a) I have to fight a juggernaut and b) I lose an important ally at the same time. toma might not have been a bad choice either, although it would have probably involved you having to give up Africa. If it helps, I've not exactly been so great at b) either - I was pretty content being allied to those turncoats fanboi and toma without others, despite the fact they have incentive to take control of the Med from me, so I fucked up the balance of powers game. I'm in a slightly better position though, insofar as that my MIL tech is 11 and toma's is 8 and so his troops can suck it.
This, incidentally, is why the Ottomans are usually the best start in a multiplayer game by far. You have a good tech group, but you're also spaced so that you have a lot of neighbours with much worse tech groups, which means the constraints on quality vs quantity are much more slack than they are for both other nations.
EDIT: Also, no offence, but your problem wasn't really a bad nation start, nor was it (directly) being close to another player. Portugal is a very good nation, not top tier but close. It was a) bad luck and b) poor diplomacy. It was bad luck because I PU'd Castile. Standard Portugal/Aragon multiplayer is dividing Castile - you need both of them to do it, so they have to work together to do that, and if they do work together, once Castile is gone they're both large enough that the prospect of attacking one another is a bit daunting. Not to say it won't happen, but it would require planning and so on. Because I PU'd Castile very early on (admittedly though no real skill), Castile is gone and yet defeating you is easy, so I have quite a large incentive to do it. This is where the diplomacy comes in - you should probably have noticed that I would have reason to go for you, and start secretly looking for allies - France would be key, simply because I was also allied with France, so if I DoW'd you a) I have to fight a juggernaut and b) I lose an important ally at the same time. toma might not have been a bad choice either, although it would have probably involved you having to give up Africa. If it helps, I've not exactly been so great at b) either - I was pretty content being allied to those turncoats fanboi and toma without others, despite the fact they have incentive to take control of the Med from me, so I fucked up the balance of powers game. I'm in a slightly better position though, insofar as that my MIL tech is 11 and toma's is 8 and so his troops can suck it.
You realize that this is exactly the kind of hubris and comments that started this mess, right? You are overestimating yourself way too much and your ingame skills arent quite as good as you think they are (nor are your diplomacy skills btw).
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...you realise it's not serious, right? It's a game, I'm not actually marching tens of thousands of men to your doorstep, or insulting the military capability of actual real armies you've actually hired. What am I supposed to say? "toma and fanboi have manpower that clearly overwhelms mine, therefore I'll just give in"? It's true, yes, but it is also rather dull. I will almost certainly lose this war; doesn't mean I can't at least have an show of bravado to it. It'd be no fun otherwise; I'd be losing and moping at the same time.
My problem was naivete, but you don't really have any right to blame me for expecting you to follow through with what we'd planned out in PM. I innocently believed you would be content with the arrangement we made, and that you would have no interest in going to war with me or destroying my colonies.
Okay, I can see that. Its just about... context here. Considering we had that very same topic yesterday, you go on with statements that seem like the same thing we talked about recently.
Nevertheless, we really should stop heaving this onto this more personal level. Lets just have an ingame asswhooping on wednesday then.
Btw, if you havent sorted out your DF issue, contact me on steam and I'll have a look into your savefile if you want. Maybe I can figure it out if I take a closer look at it.
The problem is, Valhelm and Crab, that you two were playing two different games and holding each other to different standards. Crab was playing cutthroat MP EU4, Val was playing passive SP-ish EU4, treating you like he would an AI.
There was no real reason for you to beat on Portugal because you already had one hell of a lead from the PU and no immediate threats (Val would'e probably worked with you if Toma ever invaded Iberia, had you honored his territorial boundaries), but you did it anyway because "why not?". While that's a perfectly valid reason, I don't think you should be shocked that it's being looked unfavorably upon by other players. This is pretty much what you'd expect from SP with AI coalitions, so fanboi and toma's war is just a MP analogue of that.
There are diplomatic consequences to bullying obviously weaker countries. It's all in the game.
There was no real reason for you to beat on Portugal because you already had one hell of a lead from the PU and no immediate threats (Val would'e probably worked with you if Toma ever invaded Iberia, had you honored his territorial boundaries), but you did it anyway because "why not?". While that's a perfectly valid reason, I don't think you should be shocked that it's being looked unfavorably upon by other players. This is pretty much what you'd expect from SP with AI coalitions, so fanboi and toma's war is just a MP analogue of that.
There are diplomatic consequences to bullying obviously weaker countries. It's all in the game.
+1
And, from my POV, sure, I could have stayed in the super alliance with Toma and Crab, none would have stopped us really.
But where is the fun in that? I play for the fun, the obstacles you have to overcome.
Also it was a perfectly just MP war, but it isn't PERSONAL it is role playing so to say. I like your "enemy" style Crab, love hate you, since every game needs it to make it fun.
Also, I would nothing more that we have this community going and getting stronger since it is a niche game that not so many GAF:ers play and we need to stick together.
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This would be true if a neutral party like mgo declared war on me, but toma and I actually declared war on Portugal together - toma wanted his African territories, and told me Portugal was the best path of expansion. I'm not complaining, incidentally - I am fighting this war to the very end. :3
Well yeah, true. But neither did I keep track of your alliances, neither was I part of any of your discussions, so I really have no opinion on the portuguese matter other than "Of course it was beneficial to me."
This makes NFL GAF boring by comparison.
Hell yeah, fun being an outsider when things start blowing up.
I think this is a key point and a very good post.
Anyways, Valheim, you will learn from this and return next game with slightly less naivité which can only be good.
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