Support NeoGAF

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Great for PS, but they need some strong competition... badly.

They have strong competition:

-Switch
-PC/Steam
-Apple Store
-Google Play
-Newgrounds

Even if people want to use the dumb "high-end console market" label (a label regulators like the FTC used to make PlayStation appear even more dominant over Xbox by disregarding Nintendo's presence in the console market. That's how the stupid "96:4" ratio stuff for markets like Japan tried gaining traction with Washington senators), PC/Steam is a strong enough competitor to PS in its own right. They get all the big 3P games, AA games, and actually have more AA and indie games than PlayStation.

And for people not fussed with absolute power, price of entry isn't that much, either.

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

My condolences.

Got it mostly for BC titles (FFXIII trilogy, Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey and lots more I want to play), and at €400 with vat/tax included I couldn't really pass on it. Oh and thanks MS for subsidizing my console purchase to the tune of €150+ lol (MSRP in EU is €550).

 

[StereoVsn]

Got it mostly for BC titles (FFXIII trilogy, Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey and lots more I want to play), and at €400 with vat/tax included I couldn't really pass on it. Oh and thanks MS for subsidizing my console purchase to the tune of €150+ lol (MSRP in EU is €550).

Yep, it’s pretty great at this since BC goes back to some Xbox OG titles. I have been picking up disk versions since Xbox One X for BC purposes and a few other games here and there.

It’s a pretty good deal all in all. Hell, Mister FPGA will run you more than XSX now days.

Oh and if you put it jn Dev mode you have very solid emulation options still.

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

Yep, it’s pretty great at this since BC goes back to some Xbox OG titles. I have been picking up disk versions since Xbox One X for BC purposes and a few other games here and there.

It’s a pretty good deal all in all. Hell, Mister FPGA will run you more than XSX now days.

Yup! I've picked up like ten 360 and One physical games this week since they were so cheap and readily available. All of them are BC enhanced titles (either fps boosted or they had their resolution increased).

Oh and if you put it jn Dev mode you have very solid emulation options still.

I plan on looking into this after the holidays . But yeah, 90% of my time spent on the Series X will be playing BC titles.

 

[mckmas8808]

54k?

At this point I need a big Apology

Xbox as a console brand seems to be really dying lately can Scarlett change that or will it be a short lived project?

There was more hype around Xbox Scorpio than there is around Scarlett , Xbox One X started off with a nice push from Microsoft but it seems like they quickly gave up on it you can get a Xbox One X for $402 right now but no one seems to care that it's $97 off . You can get the Xbox One S A.D for...

www.neogaf.com

Word bro! This is getting ridiculous. I think we deserve an apology from every single Xbox GAF member that has used the phrase "Game Pass is the best deal in GAMING" . And we need an apology from every Western video game talking head that said not caring about sales was an appropriate thing for MS to do. It was all lies and we knew it. And deep down they knew it too!

 

[StereoVsn]

Yup! I've picked up like ten 360 and One physical games this week since they were so cheap and readily available. All of them are BC enhanced titles (either fps boosted or they had their resolution increased).

I plan on looking into this after the holidays . But yeah, 90% of my time spent on the Series X will be playing BC titles.

Yeah, now is good time to pick them up. Check out MS’ list of BC Games and see what’s available.

Also, it’s better to get physical for the GotY edition for some games such as Oblivion, Fallout 3, Fallout NV, and other titles like Star Wars Unleashed I and II, etc…

DLCs almost never go on sale unlike BC games so you want to get the whole thing included if you can.

 

[Woopah]

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

Yeah, now is good time to pick them up. Check out MS’ list of BC Games and see what’s available.

Also, it’s better to get physical for the GotY edition for some games such as Oblivion, Fallout 3, Fallout NV, and other titles like Star Wars Unleashed I and II, etc…

DLCs almost never go on sale unlike BC games so you want to get the whole thing included if you can.

Thanks, that's very good info to know especially about the DLC rarely going on sale. Will try to pick all the GOTY physical editions for the games I have on my wishlist, and will probably do that in the next couple of months since used prices are very cheap still.

I also need to pick up Prince of Persia 2008 since it's been delisted from the store and it might get up in price in the next few years like it started to happen with the orange box. Anyway, we're getting offtopic so I'll leave this convo at that haha.

 

[Ronin_7]

Someone posted this on Era:

Nov 2023:
PS5 ~978k
NSW ~267k
XBS ~54k

If this is true....omfg...that's all i'm saying.

Xbox Series Big black friday win!

 

[StereoVsn]

Thanks, that's very good info to know especially about the DLC rarely going on sale. Will try to pick all the GOTY physical editions for the games I have on my wishlist, and will probably do that in the next couple of months since used prices are very cheap still.

I also need to pick up Prince of Persia 2008 since it's been delisted from the store and it might get up in price in the next few years like it started to happen with the orange box. Anyway, we're getting offtopic so I'll leave this convo at that haha.

Yep, anything delisted will probably go up. I even picked up physical copies for the games I have digitally on the Xbox. Also, it’s of course region free so you can always get US versions for example.

And it’s totally on topic, you single handily bumped up Xbox sale by like 0.05 percent!

 

[LiquidMetal14]

It's okay. At this rate. Phil Spencer will tweet something or commentate on something nobody wanted an opinion on. Maybe they'll buy another studio or make another refrigerator. Because that's what really earns. PR. Or the when some arbitrary award that Forbes gave them. And of course artificial intelligence and the cloud. So they're not doing that bad after all.

 

[yazenov]

Lmao magine having to explain something as simple as this.

Also is Ding on MS payroll or what?
Don’t remember him being this delusional before.

Yup, these shills need to look up the term Return on Investment (ROI).

 

[Killjoy-NL]

IF...IF....MS is launching their next gen console alot sooner, maybe these numbers make sense.

If MS pushes a next-gen launch a lot sooner, Xbox will be dead.

 

[Kerotan]

Nah, just saw the headline and laughed. The people who write/say that shit don't live in the same world as the rest of us.

They do they just get paid to spread good PR for a particular platform.

 

[bender]

Bruh... I'm from Europe and I just a bought a Series X

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Dring vs Piscatella

Chris knows these things too, I just like that Mat is a lot more blunt about it. No need to coddle these companies, especially one worth almost $3 trillion.

The problem is that before acquisitions these companies used to sell on other consoles (minus CoD). Now that Xbox sales are tanking, revenue is primarily GamePass and Steam sales.

Starfield is a good example, by MS own estimates they missed out on $700mil revenue.

I genuinely think this is going to backfire on them massively in buying more publishers, because it can now be argued that the purchases are hurting revenue growth for the whole market with their foreclosure strategies and yet Xbox revenue not increasing by expected, calculated amounts.

Investors across the market are going to start rejecting Microsoft buying more publishers if they can't generate substantial revenue growth with Zenimax & ABK. But the foreclosure strategies they've practiced at least with new Zenimax titles, directly prevent them from doing that. Very odd place for them to be in.

Got it mostly for BC titles (FFXIII trilogy, Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey and lots more I want to play), and at €400 with vat/tax included I couldn't really pass on it. Oh and thanks MS for subsidizing my console purchase to the tune of €150+ lol (MSRP in EU is €550).

If you waited a few more days you probably could've gotten another $50 off (convert that to Euro) xD. But at some level, getting a Series X for 150 Euro off (or more) does probably enter impulse buy territory. Maybe not at the mass market level, but for some it does.

Problem is these kind of moves are probably too little, too late to reverse trajectory for the console now.

 

[yazenov]

sales don't matter

So if hardware sales are not important to MS anymore then I assume they won't release a console next gen since the hardware business is not important to MS? If MS doesn't care, why should the consumers care for MS' next console?

Because at this rate and from the sales figure, neither the consumers nor the company care for the damn thing

MS ditching the hardware business and going 3rd party confirmed by Chris!

 

[twilo99]

Do people actually believe that the x/s are bad machines? That was probably true for the xbox one, but these things are very well engineered and the software running on them seems quite stable, at least from my experience.

Or is this because "there is no games" ?

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Do people actually believe that the x/s are bad machines? That was probably true for the xbox one, but these things are very well engineered and the software running on them seems quite stable, at least from my experience.

Or is this because "there is no games" ?

It's mindshare and the fact that Playstation 1st party outclass Xbox 1st party.

That and word of mouth is that you don't need an Xbox due to Day 1 PC and GamePass.

Are people really surprised, when Xbox whole PR = "you don't need an Xbox to play Xbox games"?

 

[mckmas8808]

Spot-on take. The average customer will wonder why a relatively new console is already selling at a heavily discounted price early on, and perceive there could be problems with that business. The could perceive that it's the company getting rid of stock at liquidated prices, just clearing out whatever's left before the product's taken off the market (and support ceases) altogether.

It's not an inspiring sign of confidence or long-term health for the product and can actually deter many people from buying it. Ironically I think the price increase for PS5 has made it even more valuable and desired among most people, not less. Of course there's a limit to that before it DOES make the product less desirable, but a slight increase in territories to deal with inflation isn't that limit.



Some people will continue to deny it, but the Series S was just a badly conceived product from the get-go. It only had brief relevance in a short period where there was global economic issues due to lockdowns. That isn't a sustainable environment to try getting console sales in, though, for obvious reasons.

If anything Project Keystone should've been the Series S; at least MS seem to agree with that now going by the leaks for the 'next-gen' Xbox hardware.

What is Project keystone?

With October and November data now released this is what i'm predicting for Global shipments in Q3. NSW and XBS will be down in all region and PS5 will be down in the U.S but massively up in Europe and moderately up in Japan.

Oct - Dec 2022
NSW - 8.22M
PS5 - 7.10M
XBS - 3.50M

Oct - Dec 2023 prediction
PS5 - 9.90M
NSW - 6.15M
XBS - 3.30M

Didn't PlayStation need to sell 10 million units in this last calendar year quarter to stay on Pace for their 25 million units in a fiscal year?

sales don't matter

See, there they go! They are starting the lies already. Can he stop with the bs? Does he not have any integrity?

Let’s be honest, he has a point. Massive income coming from all the acquisitions. Hardware indeed doesn’t matter as much for Xbox. It still doesn’t contradict that the brand perception is sinking, fast.

It's a total lie. Console sells 100% matters to Microsoft. There's no world where console sales matter less to them. This whole notion that Microsoft is trying to have Xbox survive on subscriptions mainly is insane. The lies have got to stop. So let's stop them now!

 

[twilo99]

Of course sales matter, they provide an install base which is very important. The question is are they essential for their strategy going forward.

It's mindshare and the fact that Playstation 1st party outclass Xbox 1st party.

That and word of mouth is that you don't need an Xbox due to Day 1 PC and GamePass.

Are people really surprised, when Xbox whole PR = "you don't need an Xbox to play Xbox games"?

Sure, but why would one feel sorry for someone who bought an xbox?

 

[kazuyamishima]

If anyone hasn’t posted yet, France is a big market in Europe. Some estimates put the Xbox Series November 2023 sales at just 20k and YTD a mere 130k.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Sure, but why would one feel sorry for someone who bought an xbox?

Pretty sure it's just a joke.

Might have been kinda valid pre-crossplatform, but that's standard now.

 

[SHA]

It seems that parents buy a new GTA V copy for every new born baby.

These people think gtav is a platform on it's own, they don't think twice about anything else.

 

[VideoGameEnjoyer]

Sure, but why would one feel sorry for someone who bought an xbox?

Just because he was the only one in the entire EU, so it must be lonely.

 

[twilo99]

Just because he was the only one in the entire EU, so it must be lonely.

alright that's valid

 

[SneakersSO]

The fact that MS very well went through Nov. 2023, the 3rd year the console is on the market, historically one of the strongest sales years for a console during its lifetime, and potentially sold lost than 1m units WW, is a fact that really crystalizes some of the stories i've been hearing these last few weeks from colleagues.

Get ready to start playing some MS-published games on PS/Switch 2 on day 1.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I was meaning moving out inventory because the console brand is done. I dont believe they will have a traditional next gen.

Yeah, me neither. Now, they are still going to release Xbox gaming hardware. That isn't changing. BUT, they will probably make it much closer to a PC NUC-type device, that runs Windows, optimized for gaming (this is where the console experience actually comes in handy) and probably in a few device ranges (including a laptop variant) with regular hardware refreshes every two years or so.

It's going to come with a significantly different business model, the systems are going to cost a good deal more upfront, but there are going to be immediate benefits in the trade-off. Less volume capacity in production for starters, and openness with hardware modifications (at least for anything that isn't a laptop-based model). Running regular Windows (maybe with a gaming-orientated UI option at default that disables non-gaming focusing utility services, and a regular desktop Windows mode that can be enabled optionally) and, even with a price increase (say the next-gen Series X equivalent goes for $899), still very competitively priced compared to similar PC NUCs from other OEMs.

Basically, it might be time to make Xbox more like Surface. The only ones who will be truly mortified are the Xbox console warriors who still want to live in 2007.

 

[bender]

Do people actually believe that the x/s are bad machines? That was probably true for the xbox one, but these things are very well engineered and the software running on them seems quite stable, at least from my experience.

Or is this because "there is no games" ?

Jokes are hard, I know. I'd also quibble about the stability of the Series OS but I'm happy with the hardware otherwise.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Let’s be honest, he has a point. Massive income coming from all the acquisitions. Hardware indeed doesn’t matter as much for Xbox. It still doesn’t contradict that the brand perception is sinking, fast.

Tell that to Embracer.

It's not all about revenue, it's about profitability. With Microsoft's inability to push Xbox units AND their lack of software sales due to GamePass AND the operating cost of running GamePass AND all of these studios...

It's only a matter of time until they start closing studios/laying off large numbers of employees.

It's entirely unsustainable.

I've posited that their real goals are getting on iPhone and Android and having their own general app stores there and leveraging games in addition to the productivity apps, communications apps, and linkedin. So they may hold firm longer than one would think otherwise. Most of the R&D costs has already been sunk into Xbox Series, so it doesn't make a ton of sense to fold now, but I don't think we're going to see them put out a ton of new hardware, only to continue selling it at a steep loss. They'll take the consumers they have now and largely limp to the finish line of the generation, while focusing on broadening their revenue from other areas.

 

[SneakersSO]

Tell that to Embracer.

It's not all about revenue, it's about profitability. With Microsoft's inability to push Xbox units AND their lack of software sales due to GamePass AND the operating cost of running GamePass AND all of these studios...

It's only a matter of time until they start closing studios/laying off large numbers of employees.

It's entirely unsustainable.

I've posited that their real goals are getting on iPhone and Android and having their own general app stores there and leveraging games in addition to the productivity apps, communications apps, and linkedin. So they may hold firm longer than one would think otherwise. Most of the R&D costs has already been sunk into Xbox Series, so it doesn't make a ton of sense to fold now, but I don't think we're going to see them put out a ton of new hardware, only to continue selling it at a steep loss. They'll take the consumers they have now and largely limp to the finish line of the generation, while focusing on broadening their revenue from other areas.

They are not gonna close studios nor do layoffs (yet). They are simply going to expand where they are publishing games on. I now know of several projects that are being developed and ported to PS/Switch 2. I was taken aback when I started hearing this talk - I didn't expect MS to entertain this strategy at least until they hit 2027, but with console sales this dire, they need to do something.

One of the parts folks aren't understanding is that growth in services (GP) is directly tied to console sales. Every month, there are a number of users who leave GP, called a churn rate. GP has the highest churn rates for entertainment subscription services. This means that the entire business model is predicated on Xbox selling consoles to users who ultimately sub to GP, more so than the number of users who leave their GP subs behind. This is why you've seen Phil and many observers comment that GP sub service has 'stalled' in the console space. All the growth, which is honestly not at all significant, is happening in the PC space.

 

[StealthGoblin]

They are not gonna close studios nor do layoffs (yet). They are simply going to expand where they are publishing games on. I now know of several projects that are being developed and ported to PS/Switch 2. I was taken aback when I started hearing this talk - I didn't expect MS to entertain this strategy at least until they hit 2027, but with console sales this dire, they need to do something.

One of the parts folks aren't understanding is that growth in services (GP) is directly tied to console sales. Every month, there are a number of users who leave GP, called a churn rate. GP has the highest churn rates for entertainment subscription services. This means that the entire business model is predicated on Xbox selling consoles to users who ultimately sub to GP, more so than the number of users who leave their GP subs behind. This is why you've seen Phil and many observers comment that GP sub service has 'stalled' in the console space. All the growth, which is honestly not at all significant, is happening in the PC space.

Are we talking Bethesda games, ABK games Xbox Studios games or all of them for the ports?

I've always felt Sony should launch their GAAS games on as wide a platform base as possible too, but it feels less and less like Xbox makes sense.

 

[SneakersSO]

Basically, it might be time to make Xbox more like Surface. The only ones who will be truly mortified are the Xbox console warriors who still want to live in 2007.

This is precisely what, based on what I am hearing, I expect to happen. They can keep their line of consoles around as their GamePass hub, maintain their userbase there, work with pubs to ensure they continue supporting the platform, then look for growth in Sony and Nintendo's ecosystems.

 

[DJ12]

Well, even if >20% down in USA PlayStation 5 remained the best-selling hardware platform in both unit and dollar sales during November 2023 and the whole year in USA.

Are we sure that 20% down applies to both. Seems a but flippant, maybe xbox is down 50% and ps5 isn't down at all.

Someone posted this on Era:

Nov 2023:
PS5 ~978k
NSW ~267k
XBS ~54k

If this is true....omfg...that's all i'm saying.

Add an ooofff gif from me too.

Xbox is done.

So where was the location where Xbox won Black Friday?

I guess the shop at hq in redmond was first to report sales.

Yeah, me neither. Now, they are still going to release Xbox gaming hardware. That isn't changing. BUT, they will probably make it much closer to a PC NUC-type device, that runs Windows, optimized for gaming (this is where the console experience actually comes in handy) and probably in a few device ranges (including a laptop variant) with regular hardware refreshes every two years or so.

It's going to come with a significantly different business model, the systems are going to cost a good deal more upfront, but there are going to be immediate benefits in the trade-off. Less volume capacity in production for starters, and openness with hardware modifications (at least for anything that isn't a laptop-based model). Running regular Windows (maybe with a gaming-orientated UI option at default that disables non-gaming focusing utility services, and a regular desktop Windows mode that can be enabled optionally) and, even with a price increase (say the next-gen Series X equivalent goes for $899), still very competitively priced compared to similar PC NUCs from other OEMs.

Basically, it might be time to make Xbox more like Surface. The only ones who will be truly mortified are the Xbox console warriors who still want to live in 2007.

Totally agree and have been saying it for months, writting is definitely on the wall, xbox consoles are done. I don't think they release NUC type devices, but it'll definitely be a 800-1000$ carefully curated xbox gaming pc probably with a gpu you can swap out as every couple of years with a non standard connector obvs.

Regardless of that, they won't be in the console game in their minds and will be third party on the other consoles.

 

[SneakersSO]

Are we talking Bethesda games, ABK games Xbox Studios games or all of them for the ports?

I've always felt Sony should launch their GAAS games on as wide a platform base as possible too, but it feels less and less like Xbox makes sense.

All of them. I know of several high-profile Bethesda titles whose port work started up a few months ago. I also have some knowledge on ABK in general, and not a single project that was in dev, or that has gotten an initial approval to have an exploratory milestone achieved, has had a single discussion on exclusivity. I also now know of several titles that fall squarely under XGS, titles that have yet to be announced, that now are doing PS/Xbox/Switch 2 development.

The console wars are basically over. The public just doesn't know it yet.

 

[StealthGoblin]

All of them. I know of several high-profile Bethesda titles whose port work started up a few months ago. I also have some knowledge on ABK in general, and not a single project that was in dev, or that has gotten an initial approval to have an exploratory milestone achieved, has had a single discussion on exclusivity. I also now know of several titles that fall squarely under XGS, titles that have yet to be announced, that now are doing PS/Xbox/Switch 2 development.

The console wars are basically over. The public just doesn't know it yet.

I'll take what you say with a pinch of salt as I don't know your sources or background, but that doesn't surprise me. PlayStation and Nintendo consoles look vital to Microsoft's revenue in gaming going forward..Gamepass is the big elephant in the room. There isn't a way in hell it would get onto PlayStation in its current form, so I'm guessing it'll become a PC and Mobile centric service.

 

[SneakersSO]

I'll take what you say with a pinch of salt as I don't know your sources or background, but that doesn't surprise me. PlayStation and Nintendo consoles look vital to Microsoft's revenue in gaming going forward..Gamepass is the big elephant in the room. There isn't a way in hell it would get onto PlayStation in its current form, so I'm guessing it'll become a PC and Mobile centric service.

Honestly, I don't think anyone, including MS, wants GP on other consoles. Some of the biggest revenue growth for MS has come from full game sales on PC. Why would MS wanna put the service on new growth markets which actively undermines that? I know that both Nintendo and Sony won't allow it, even as a XGS-only service. And to be frank, they don't need to.

 

[twilo99]

Xbox is done.

Just curious, now that they are done, how does that look like in your world?

 

[AyraSutoraifu]

My condolences.

When people starting to joke like this about you or your product... you're in trouble.

 

[a multicultural team of v]

All of them. I know of several high-profile Bethesda titles whose port work started up a few months ago. I also have some knowledge on ABK in general, and not a single project that was in dev, or that has gotten an initial approval to have an exploratory milestone achieved, has had a single discussion on exclusivity. I also now know of several titles that fall squarely under XGS, titles that have yet to be announced, that now are doing PS/Xbox/Switch 2 development.

The console wars are basically over. The public just doesn't know it yet.

They can start with a native PS5 Prey version plz thx

Honestly they should have considered this earlier, they missed out on millions of Starfield full priced copy sales from PS5 users from not launching same day - especially now that the response has been so poor to the game itself. They had once chance to nab those unsuspecting sales based on hype alone and they gave it up.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

They are not gonna close studios nor do layoffs (yet). They are simply going to expand where they are publishing games on. I now know of several projects that are being developed and ported to PS/Switch 2. I was taken aback when I started hearing this talk - I didn't expect MS to entertain this strategy at least until they hit 2027, but with console sales this dire, they need to do something.

I can understand for the PS5. But the Switch 2? This would be even more desperate than I think they need to be. Why loose ressources for a console months away, and not really up to the task compared to this gen, when most engines struggle to give us clean 4K? And with most of those studios under Microsoft not really friends with Nintendo, will they even have dev kits now, or are they just looking at how feasible it is? Not that I don't believe you. But it would be so damning for Xbox to do so. We do have Nadella comments that for him there is no need for exclusivity. Time will tell, I suppose.

 

[LixhulHot]

Someone posted this on Era:

Nov 2023:
PS5 ~978k
NSW ~267k
XBS ~54k

If this is true....omfg...that's all i'm saying.

Yeah that's all well and good but what about the engagement figures?

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

This is precisely what, based on what I am hearing, I expect to happen. They can keep their line of consoles around as their GamePass hub, maintain their userbase there, work with pubs to ensure they continue supporting the platform, then look for growth in Sony and Nintendo's ecosystems.

How far do you expect Microsoft to commit to that type of revamped business model though? IMO, it would basically have to involve completing ending console exclusivity altogether, not just for ABK games but also Zenimax and XGS. That's likely one way they make a better case to get Game Pass on Sony & Nintendo platforms, for example.

The next step would be just fully going into that model with the next generation of hardware, but maybe conditioning X & S owners at current for what's to come, such as an expanded Dev Mode feature that opens up even more general-purpose Windows functionality on those platforms. If possible they can then I guess offer a full Windows 12 Home Edition-like upgrade to Series S & X users for a one-time payment fee and/or subscription (there's already rumors the next Windows might be subscription-based at least as an option), ahead of launching new hardware where this stuff is more or less the default (but that hardware being explicitly designed to leverage it in a more wholistic matter than the Series S & X ever could).

 

[Mibu no ookami]

They are not gonna close studios nor do layoffs (yet). They are simply going to expand where they are publishing games on. I now know of several projects that are being developed and ported to PS/Switch 2. I was taken aback when I started hearing this talk - I didn't expect MS to entertain this strategy at least until they hit 2027, but with console sales this dire, they need to do something.

One of the parts folks aren't understanding is that growth in services (GP) is directly tied to console sales. Every month, there are a number of users who leave GP, called a churn rate. GP has the highest churn rates for entertainment subscription services. This means that the entire business model is predicated on Xbox selling consoles to users who ultimately sub to GP, more so than the number of users who leave their GP subs behind. This is why you've seen Phil and many observers comment that GP sub service has 'stalled' in the console space. All the growth, which is honestly not at all significant, is happening in the PC space.

You're conflating being a publisher and a platform holder. As a publisher you're unable to take the risks that a platform holder can take. It's much more difficult for a publisher to absorb losses on games that don't hit. You don't have extraneous revenue coming in.

When Sega went 3rd party their game output drastically reduced.

When you're a publisher, you can't release games that compete with each other. Look at EA with F1 and WRC. I seriously doubt EA maintains both licenses/releases annual games for both franchises. Gran Turismo is already eating their lunch on PlayStation. Racing games are extremely crowded at the moment. Microsoft wanted a direct competitor to GT7 which is why there is Forza Motorsport, but the game bombed and Forza Horizon is more popular. The platform doesn't have a userbase large enough to support both. If Forza released on PS5 as well, it still would have bombed.

The more expensive games get to develop the more selective you ultimately have to be with your release schedule. You've got to put significant marketing presence into every game you publish. Microsoft is more doomed to failure as a 3rd party publisher than it is as a platform holder.

GamePass has already failed. First, we'll see a price increase within the next 12 months, probably within the next 6. And within the next 2 years it won't exist as it exists today. At minimum they'll have a more tiered approach to it.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

The day Microsoft announces any XGS games or Elder's Scrolls 6 from Zenimax/Bethesda for PS5 is the day their platform craters.

 

[yazenov]

is the day their platform craters

It's already dead.

 

[nowhat]

Just curious, now that they are done, how does that look like in your world?

Pretty much like the world when they weren't done, TBH.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

It's already dead.

It's dying, but it is still selling millions of units. It's not dead yet.

I think this announcement is closer than we realize though. Even looking at the Game Awards, nothing was announced to stem the momentum for next year. All the games that have marketing deals with Xbox probably have for quite some time.

Definitely, something to keep a close eye on over the next 6 or so months.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Just curious, now that they are done, how does that look like in your world?

A lot of that depends on Nintendo. I firmly believe Nintendo should leave the hybrid model and release two distinct skus with shared architecture similar to XSS and XSX but one being a handheld.

Being a hybrid console is like being a hybrid vehicle. You're constrained by both elements and you get none of the full benefits.

If they put out a console as powerful as PS5 Pro as essentially the Switch Heavy, with full BC, I think that would open up significantly more sales for them and maintain the Switch platform as a handheld.

Otherwise, I think Sony will have a monopoly in the console market for some time, one in which they'll leverage to gain access to the PC market.

 

[Snowdonhoffen]

They are not gonna close studios nor do layoffs (yet). They are simply going to expand where they are publishing games on. I now know of several projects that are being developed and ported to PS/Switch 2. I was taken aback when I started hearing this talk - I didn't expect MS to entertain this strategy at least until they hit 2027, but with console sales this dire, they need to do something.

Well, I honestly don't know how true this is but it tracks with what Shinobi said the other day on the other forum so I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.