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European Parliament Elections 2014 |OT| The Undemocratic EU is Actually Elected
- Thread starter anonymous_abc
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ya salty
Newest italian projections, the lead keeps getting bigger.
If I had known this before, I'd have voted for Tsipras...
Sickboy007
Member
If I had known this before, I'd have voted for Tsipras...
Hah, that did cross my mind as well! I'm happy they passed, seems like the pollsters were underestimating all the center-left/left forces.
I don't think it is about him 'being salty' as you put it - if you want to use those type of comments best done on a picture of Nigel F of him being hit with an egg. Not a picture of when he nearly died, its all about taste.
Sonik
Member
So you're pretty much bragging because the corporate fucks control our countries and will never allow to chose for ourselves. Some of you pro-EU guys seem very democratic...
cripterion
Member
I don't really know about this UK far right wing party but if it's anything like FN in France I think it's pretty much bullshit how some people in here like to call all of it's voter racists.
I live in a village where most people vote FN, I know some of these people and they don't have a fiber of racism in them. Some just vote cause they are exceeded with the current political party, others are anti EU, and yes some vote cause they do not want Roms as neighbors.
To be brutally honest I'd call out a liar anyone who said they are fine with it.
I do remember when they came with their caravans, fucked up the fields, installed themselves, "connected" themselves to water and electricity and were being incredibly loud during late night. Officials try to get them to go and even police came but with the actual laws they couldn't be removed for weeks.
They actually left sooner cause land owners grew incredibly tired and things were getting heated cause they were bringing out the old hunting rifles...
I live in a village where most people vote FN, I know some of these people and they don't have a fiber of racism in them. Some just vote cause they are exceeded with the current political party, others are anti EU, and yes some vote cause they do not want Roms as neighbors.
To be brutally honest I'd call out a liar anyone who said they are fine with it.
I do remember when they came with their caravans, fucked up the fields, installed themselves, "connected" themselves to water and electricity and were being incredibly loud during late night. Officials try to get them to go and even police came but with the actual laws they couldn't be removed for weeks.
They actually left sooner cause land owners grew incredibly tired and things were getting heated cause they were bringing out the old hunting rifles...
Marc
Member
Fair enough, I understand that better.
The argument would then be is he xenophobic, ignorant of a particular people or what? As he clearly doesn't have a problem with foreigners as a rule, as he married one. He seemed to admit he made a mistake from being tired and said that he was talking about the criminal element coming over and was thinking of them when he said it. Maybe that is true, maybe showing his true colours but still find it a bit contradictory with his life decisions... dunno. I find it an ignorant view, not necessarily a racist or xenophobic one.
Personally I don't really like any of the leaders, some more than others for what I consider to be crimes. Farage I like more than the rest because he generally says what he actually thinks, even if it is a load of bollocks I prefer to hear someone's real thoughts on issues. I can respect that more even though I don't agree with quite a few of his views, at least I am then able to make a more informed opinion on things. I compare that to an example from Ed - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCem9EZb-YA where leaders are trying to avoid the same slip Farage managed. In staying 'neutral' as it were I consider them more of a non-entity, not as a man who has made the least mistakes as I think they would want.
If I were you I would quickly clarify that you don't mean all Roma but those campers who refuse to integrate and who live by their own laws. It's something peple will jump on although most know perfectly well that you're only talking about certain groups of Roma.
i sincerely doubt it's actually a case of taste when said salty poster has been going from pillar to post to defend ukip and farage from entirely solid accusations that the party is racist and so is farage himself
and with that said, neither of you are the good taste police either.
cripterion
Member
I think the EU is too open as it is..
cripterion
Member
I don't mean all Roma people, as some of them are actually as French as any of us. It is a certain group between them though. I could refer to them as campers though I don't know if the terminology fits exactly. Squatters. Maybe?
My point is, this is something that a lot of people consider to be a big problem, and something the French government doesn't know how to deal with.
I don't know why taking these issues at heart would be considered racism by some :/
Nicktendo86
Member
Tower hamlets still holding up the London results, my borough is an utter embarrassment.
JesseEwiak
Member
If you people are going to vote themselves out of the EU due to dumb "DEY TOOK ER JERBS" rhetoric, then yes, they don't deserve a vote. Not everything has to be a referendum. Believe me, as an American, it's not that great.
DarkCronos
Member
Newest italian projections, the lead keeps getting bigger.
not projections, those are real data from about 1/3 of the electoral sections
Succinct Verbosity
Member
*Of the voting population in a European election for a party that focuses squarely on Europe.
It's late and I'm tired so I'll keep this brief.
Farage is a pretty good speaker, as long as he is allowed to rattle off. As soon as he is questioned or under any pressure he ends up coming out with something completely ridiculous. I'm not sure i buy the 'he's not racist because he wife is German' card, thats a touch of the John Terry's
My argument is he is that he is ignorant of the European working class who come to England seeking a better life for their families and are happy to the do the jobs that lazy benefit seeking Brits are too bone idol to do (But that is another argument) Ed Miliband on the other hand is just a complete bellend and will probably in some miraculous way stop Labour winning the General Election.
Sickboy007
Member
You're totally right.
Sonik
Member
Dude I don't even like UKIP, I'm just pro-democracy. Saying that people don't deserve to vote and shouldn't is unacceptable no matter how you justify it.
It's also completely classless and juvenile making fun of a person because he had a serious accident and calling people racist scum assuming they all voted for UKIP because they're racists and not to protest against EU. I strongly dislike the far-right but this thread is temporarily making me dislike the pro-EU people more.
WayneMorse
Banned
The people voted for the EU when they voted in parties that supported the EU.
The Labour Party used to be Eurosceptic, they had a complete withdrawal from the Common Market in their 1983 manifesto, they lost.
William Hague ran the Conservative's 2001 campaign almost entirely on Europe and immigration, they lost.
Michael Howard did the same thing in 2005, they lost again.
By rejecting anti-EU sentiments from both the left and right over the past 30 years the British public has affirmed the polticial centre to be pro-Europe, until recently.
JesseEwiak
Member
By all measures, George Wallace wasn't a racist by 1960's Alabama standards, but he talked like one to win support from those people. Same thing with Barry Goldwater during the '64 Presidential election. I'm sure they had plenty of generalizations in their own mind as well.
Ya' know what I would do? No matter what? Not vote for racists. There's plenty of parties. Hell, maybe the non-racist members against the EU should get off their asses, quit complaining on the Internet or in the pub, and actually create a party? I mean, I'll give ole' Nigel credit for doing that.
Sonik
Member
Who's fault is it that the political system offered no other alternatives to the voting public other than the crazy far-right? As avaya bragged, the corporations who control Europe just don't want to let Europeans decide for themselves which is why they left them only with one choice.
JesseEwiak
Member
The UKIP didn't spring up out of nothing. If there are truly that many non-racist people opposed to the EU, they easily could've created a new party. If idiots like Griffin and Farage can pull it off, then it should be easy if there is actually a mass of people opposed to the EU for non-racial reasons.
Marc
Member
It's late and I'm tired so I'll keep this brief.
Farage is a pretty good speaker, as long as he is allowed to rattle off. As soon as he is questioned or under any pressure he ends up coming out with something completely ridiculous. I'm not sure i buy the 'he's not racist because he wife is German' card, thats a touch of the John Terry's
Ed Miliband on the other hand is just a complete bellend and will probably in some miraculous way stop Labour winning the General Election.
No worries, heading off myself. Watching the BBC with this stupid Jeremy green screen section is getting old.
I would say the same of the other leaders, except they say less and less and go in circles. You can't get their 'truth' so can only judge by their actions instead, which are some truly horrific actions. Being against one country isn't racist in the slightest unless you are defining a single country as this one complete race (hard to think of an example at this time?). I have seen a great deal of ignorance from people who accuse others of being ignorant, never actually living amongst any of these groups. Farage has had an actual job and would experience other cultures and views as a matter of force, especially in the financial sector. I know and have worked with many of the companies he has, there is a big foreign element among them and there is a lot of banter amongst that. I have heard a lot of "anti-english" stuff which is really just joking, and not actually believing it, lots of back and forth but if you quote it then yeeaash. That is his background and I can understand that a lot more. To describe it as racist is incredibly silly and comes across as a form of propaganda. In fact he probably has had to put up with some extreme racism from other cultures, I hear it often from other countries which can get pretty awkward. I don't think he has had to live in a poor area, but pretty much 90% of those commenting on him are very unlikely to either. I doubt many commentating on the 'racist' element have had any experience in the matter.
Like I said, I very much doubt it, I know the companies he has worked for are full of foreigners who have come over and settled and work with their families. That is one side of it, the skilled worker side legally here, the other side of it is very different. If you have a family of 10 in a 2 bed flat, all working off the books, no tax, paying rent off the book so at a lower cash rate in a poor area... can a British person compete with that? Of course not, and their goal is to maximize profits over 2 years or so and if they can find a great job and go 'native' as it were then yeah stay. Otherwise most of the money has gone home where it is of greater value and will move back. There are lazy chav brits for sure, and hopefully the benefits system getting harsher will break the cycle created years ago of a system so easily abused.
Er what have I done? A picture from an incident that nearly ended in death used in bad taste - is not appropriate no matter who it was Clegg, Cameron, Miliband, etc.
Sonik
Member
No, UKIP didn't spring out of nothing, it sprang out of euro-skepticism which is also how it became famous. Farage's rants in the euro parliament are famous in many circles. It's what the far right does, exploit a popular idea that goes against the establishment while on the backround trying to push their other more machiavellian ideas.
Nicktendo86
Member
What utter tosh. They didn't vote on Europe in those elections, Europe was not a voter priority and was a vote loser for the Tories as they kept banging on about it post 97. They voted for policy on crime (tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime) education (education, education, education) and the NHS.
Because of the hold up?
As someone who was based in Tower Hamlets for nearly a decade, I'd say the borough has undergone massive improvements in recent years. Shit, was driving through the other day and couldn't believe how much the place had cleaned up, and how even the council estate properties and buildings actually looked half decent. Even the shittier parts are finally at least getting closer to that West London treatment. Certainly a lot cleaner now and more efficiently run than some of the other nearby boroughs.
it's not a dig, don't worry. it's just not that everybody feels that picture is bad taste because hey subjectivity etc.
it's also very hard to feel sympathetic for a man actively doing his best to increase social tensions in communities across the uk
Nicktendo86
Member
Lived here for the entirety of my 28 years, scratch the surface and a lick of paint doesn't cover the blatant corruption and incompetence of the council.
Succinct Verbosity
Member
Basically demonstrates the real solution to European scepticism is economic rather than anything to do with immigration. I know that, to some, people blame high unemployment on Europe and immigration, but honestly, the wealth disparity between London and the rest of the UK is an internal problem created by Westminster's indifference to national poverty (mostly due to the tories).
Psychotext
Member
I'd have thought so... yes, by doing exactly the same thing.
Why do these crazy edge cases always come out in these discussions? Right there you're talking about multiple laws being broken, so yeah, I'd guess anyone willing to break the law could compete with them directly. I mean shit, I could choose not to pay my taxes right now if I wanted to... but it would be a massive risk, just as it is for any immigrant that tries to live that way.
As for the 10 in a 2 bed flat... I've lived in similar (not quite as bad, but similar) circumstances whilst I was doing temporary work away from home in my late teens. Is there something about being British that means we're unable to live in discomfort to try and get by? Do we deserve more by virtue of where our passport originates?
Doczu
Member
No, he's right. Funny, but when you make fun of racist/bigot people here, it's cool. It's funny to see all these hateful comments from some users and no bans for them. Freedom of speech, neutrailty etc.
This is a classic example where the responsibility lies with the police and local authorities, but the blame is thrown at Europe.
What would exactly do FN about this type of situations? Let's hear the non-racist or non-xenophobic solution for this.
EdibleExplosives
Member
Kinda ashamed to be British right now. Fucking hell.
CyclopsRock
Member
I think one of the problems with debate in general, but especially in politics, is that it should be a matter of 'all of these things are good, these are bad - on balance, I think option A is the best one'. But instead it's a case of 'all these things are good, all these things are bad, on balance I think option A is the best one so fuck all the bad things!' For example, I think that on balance, free movement of people within the EU is a good thing for the British economy *on balance* but that doesn't mean there aren't draw backs. Having a larger labour pool does suppress wages when we are one of the wealthiest countries in the EU (and it can have the opposite effect in poorer countries). There are also a lot of jobs (between 1997 and 2007 it was about 90% of 'new' jobs) which go to people born outside the UK, so 'dey terk our jerrbs' isn't just a funny ditty on South Park.
Of course, on the other hand, lots of Europeans come here to set up businesses, too, which create jobs. Lots of Europeans are well educated and come to the UK to boost our skills in areas in which we are short, and even in those in which we are not short (Inc minimum wage jobs) that same large labour pool that suppresses wages also means that UK businesses get some of the best choices of employees, as the choice is so wide and many of our European brothers and sisters come to the UK. On balance, I think there is a net benefit for the UK, but that doesn't mean that the drawbacks in the first paragraph don't exist. Likewise, I also appreciate that I'm in a charmed position, working in a high skilled Industry in a City which has been racially and culturally diverse since long before I was born; I don't have to see myself and my friends all get turned away from jobs due to massive levels of competition, or my local town's demographics quickly change, or my kid's school have hardly any English speaking kids etc. In other words, I can see why people wouldn't like open borders, and you don't have to be racist to think that.
This is just for open borders, but it's true for all aspects of politics.
I'd also like to point out that the EU is only about opening borders within the EU - it makes it actively harder to open borders and have agreements outside of the EU. Perhaps the question becomes 'who would you rather throw your hat In with?' Since the EU forces it to be almost a dichotomy like that. I'm not sure that's a question the EU really wants to ask...
(Sorry for any typos)
Of course, on the other hand, lots of Europeans come here to set up businesses, too, which create jobs. Lots of Europeans are well educated and come to the UK to boost our skills in areas in which we are short, and even in those in which we are not short (Inc minimum wage jobs) that same large labour pool that suppresses wages also means that UK businesses get some of the best choices of employees, as the choice is so wide and many of our European brothers and sisters come to the UK. On balance, I think there is a net benefit for the UK, but that doesn't mean that the drawbacks in the first paragraph don't exist. Likewise, I also appreciate that I'm in a charmed position, working in a high skilled Industry in a City which has been racially and culturally diverse since long before I was born; I don't have to see myself and my friends all get turned away from jobs due to massive levels of competition, or my local town's demographics quickly change, or my kid's school have hardly any English speaking kids etc. In other words, I can see why people wouldn't like open borders, and you don't have to be racist to think that.
This is just for open borders, but it's true for all aspects of politics.
I'd also like to point out that the EU is only about opening borders within the EU - it makes it actively harder to open borders and have agreements outside of the EU. Perhaps the question becomes 'who would you rather throw your hat In with?' Since the EU forces it to be almost a dichotomy like that. I'm not sure that's a question the EU really wants to ask...
(Sorry for any typos)
QuicheFontaine
Member
So I just got off the plane at Heathrow and snagged a free copy of the Daily Mail (thanks BA!)
Oh snap. Didn't know the DM was calling Milliband "Red Ed". Lols
Oh snap. Didn't know the DM was calling Milliband "Red Ed". Lols
At least you're not French.
anonymous_abc
Member
The French results put all the photoshops of Angela in SS uniforms into perspective....
anonymous_abc
Member
Sonik
Member
To be fair she helped with her stubbornness and authoritarianism more than anyone to create this clusterfuck and elect these crazies.
benjipwns
Banned
There's the possibility that a good chunk of people who didn't vote are even more racist and bigoted. Among other things.
I swear this guy is my British doppelganger.
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