The Terror Twilight
Banned
Does the employee have any reason to feel bitter towards the company? It sounds like maybe he's been treated poorly in the past and is trying to get revenge by undermining this business.
Ever had an employee that refuses to look presentable, but has incredible potential?
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Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Sneak Nair into the handsoap dispenser.
Sanic
Member
Seriously. You adapt to the customer, who is funding your pay check.
Get out of here with this "self expression" hippie garbage
Zombie James
Banned
It's just a beard.
phillipgessert
Member
It actually sounds like it's not, and the OP kind of did himself a disservice by honing in on that specificallybecause a lot of posters are focusing on the principle of having/not having a beard in a professional environment. Whereas it actually sounds like the employee simply doesn't look put-together, and the big wild beard is just a part of that.
After 7 years at a company who's dress code is "wear clothes" I could never accept a position at a company that enforced a certain level of dress, unless of course I was desperate for a job.
IMO unless you're physically customer facing there is no reason to enforce a dress code and companies that still do so are lame and holding on to silly archaic corporate practices. I work better when I'm able to wear what's comfortable, which for me is flip flops, shorts and a tshirt.
IMO unless you're physically customer facing there is no reason to enforce a dress code and companies that still do so are lame and holding on to silly archaic corporate practices. I work better when I'm able to wear what's comfortable, which for me is flip flops, shorts and a tshirt.
highrider
Banned
.
Good management would determine whether he was a leader on wanted to face the public. Sounds like the guy has good skills, so how does your company foster that? You can certainly dress him better, and change his personal style, but how does that make you money?
CrocMother
Banned
"look man, it's time to sell out."
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
I don't care about "presentability". It's not a quality that I believe in or value.
I have faced the same problems OP. My thought was always you have to nudge a person in the right direction, and let them make the next step. If the guy does not realize presentation is important to his performance at the next level then he is not ready and will probably fail. The way you look and act is very important when you start moving up the ladder, rules of the game I'm afraid. Growth as a total person is important, and if his weakness is how he appears, then he needs to work on that weakness.
mugoldeneagle03
Member
I'm that guy you describe, and like you said if there's no incentive then why should I have to alter my appearance?
It's a little different since I'm off the floor now, but if I'm getting paid shit with little room for advancement, I have no problem with working hard to keep my job but not caring for self improvement if I have no incentive for it.
That said facial hair I usually try to keep up with. But I can't remember the last time my shirt was fully tucked in, or washed (I have a dirty job, like to sport it if I'm working hard), growing my hair out, etc.
My advice would be to just tell him straight up, and even if there's no position available currently tell him he'd be the first choice for one if he stepped up his game. Then you'll find out how much he cares about a career rather than just a job
It's a little different since I'm off the floor now, but if I'm getting paid shit with little room for advancement, I have no problem with working hard to keep my job but not caring for self improvement if I have no incentive for it.
That said facial hair I usually try to keep up with. But I can't remember the last time my shirt was fully tucked in, or washed (I have a dirty job, like to sport it if I'm working hard), growing my hair out, etc.
My advice would be to just tell him straight up, and even if there's no position available currently tell him he'd be the first choice for one if he stepped up his game. Then you'll find out how much he cares about a career rather than just a job
WordAssassin
Member
I don't see why you couldn't have been frank with him, and said, "Hey, you do great work here. Like really really stellar. If you're happy where you are, that is awesome and you can stay there and keep being awesome with it. However, there is a position open that I think you would do well it, it would just require additional responsibilities as well as a change in dress code. But again, this is just if you want it. I think you'd do great in the new position, but if you're happy where you are and aren't comfortable with the changes or concessions you'd have to make, then I don't want to change a thing."
Instead, it sounds like you kind of made the choice for him, "I'm gonna be partnering you with someone, there's a promotion that I want for you, but you will have to change for it." That was the wrong way to go about it. You needed to ask him, not tell him.
Instead, it sounds like you kind of made the choice for him, "I'm gonna be partnering you with someone, there's a promotion that I want for you, but you will have to change for it." That was the wrong way to go about it. You needed to ask him, not tell him.
Luckily you can't really do anything about that.
Race to be King
Banned
Kinda amazed how many people here would refuse to work somewhere that required them to wear a suit. Men look good in suits! Seize the opportunity!
They're not as comfortable as regular clothes and they're more expensive, why would I want to wear one to work every day?
I'm exactly this kind of employee by the way.
Blood Diamonds
Banned
lol, it sounds like he's trying to tell you to fuck off. Looks like he really doesn't wanna "move up the ladder" or whatever.
Race to be King
Banned
You can wear your own stuff when you're outside work, when people are actually going to appreciate it.
I don't buy the 'it's uncomfortable' line. It shouldn't be if it actually fits properly, and you can take the jacket off when you're at your desk. What do you usually wear - a onesie?
I usually wear regular people clothes, like pants and a t-shirt.
I work at a call center. Why would I want to wear a suit?
As in left because it was the end of the work day or packed up his personal belongings and left for good?
He can't do anything about his employee not having drive?
It's called "fuck you, you're fired".
I am not particularly picky with the clothes my employees wear. Standard IT polo/khakis is fine. Shoes, whatever. I personally wear Brooks running shoes, not exactly the dressiest shit, but they're in good shape.
But somebody not having drive to improve themselves and instead treat their job like a prison sentence? They are collecting unemployment. Advancing your knowledge and the desire to constantly learn new things is critical in IT.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
didn't pack up, just left. He had a few more hours in his day to go, he isn't salaried. Not sure if I should expect a steaming turd on my desk tomorrow or not.
Yeah let's fire the sap because his goals in life are different from ours, even though he's a good employee! That's surely the logical thing to do.
GungHo
Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
Unfortunately, I've seen heavy-handed attempts at conformation end up screwing up the one thing that makes a person competitively advantageous. Then again, I work in the big corporate environment so I also understand the need to get people to conform to work with management. It ends up being a big fuck up, but what can you do?
BronsonLee
Member
I bet the employee is pretty jaded at this rate. He got a promotion once, but then it got snatched from him in a very public manner. It happened so fast he didn't know what happened. Once bitten, twice shy?
Devolution
Member
Looking presentable and approachable is how you get business. It sounds like his beard is sloppy and unkempt. Really not getting the defensive posts in this one.
Tell him to shave or his ass is out of the company, straight up like that.
Seriously just a simple talk of "Look man, there is a position on teh company, it will make you more dough but you look like pure garbage so you ain't getting that dough, what do you think?"
You will say that in a stripclub when you both are drunk as all hell and having a few laughs, he will the next day have that thought imprinted in his brain but he will not remember who said it the night before so he will shave and clean up and go to the work all presentable, win win situation if you ask me.
In so many words do an "inception" thing going on!
Seriously just a simple talk of "Look man, there is a position on teh company, it will make you more dough but you look like pure garbage so you ain't getting that dough, what do you think?"
You will say that in a stripclub when you both are drunk as all hell and having a few laughs, he will the next day have that thought imprinted in his brain but he will not remember who said it the night before so he will shave and clean up and go to the work all presentable, win win situation if you ask me.
In so many words do an "inception" thing going on!
Mr_Appleby
Member
judging from the OP's earlier posts it all seems a matter of marketing. The suits wear suits to appear like successful suits, thus given clients confidence in having chosen an authentic company, why not just throw a labcoat on the guy and tell clients he's the resident genius. never hurt these guys
KibblesBits
Member
Does he handle customers though? Did he sign on with the intention to be in the spotlight? Was there a dress code presented to him? Does he want the new position?
It isn't defensive posting either. Don't call me out Devo.
Devolution
Member
Unless you're in some newer hipper company or a more creative climate, corporate culture also involves looking the part. If you have unkempt facial hair that says to people in some avenues that you don't give a shit. That's the last message/vibe I'd think an employee would want to send out. You don't have to handle customers, you could be dealing with clients, going out on company luncheons, dealing with fellow employees. It's just not a good look.
CouldBeWorse
Member
It's not about the OP. it's about the standards of the company and the industry. And you're "upset" that the OP wants to reward him with more responsibility and more importantly, a higher title?
KibblesBits
Member
Pertaining to the employee in the OP these things don't seem to come in to play given what information has been given. Work ethic is more important than appearance unless specifically stated in a company handbook somewhere.
That said I never stated that appearance is not important.
phillipgessert
Member
It involves looking the part even IN more creative climates. Turning up dressed like a salesman for a design position is as inappropriate as the reverse.
oneils
Member
Do the product developers also act as the sales force in your shop? To get a real sense of a company's true culture you probably have to look at the sales force.
Devolution
Member
Sometimes. I've heard conflicting reports on what to wear to different firms.
No. Sorry if you somehow got that from my post, not sure how you would.
highrider
Banned
My thing is, how was this not already determined when they hired him?
Zoe
Member
KibblesBits
Member
Maybe he's blissfully giving the hint: Stop inviting me to the hoity toity shit.
Is it an Office Party? Mandatory? A formal event that he is required to work at for the day/night?
Still not enough info in the effort to maintain privacy and not give away too much detail. This leads to speculation and conjecture.
Obviously if it is actual work and he's required to look a certain way, he should conform.
Devolution
Member
That's not really his call to make. It sounds like his performance is good enough for people to overlook this otherwise he'd be canned.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
It doesn't seem like he did, but I believe the OP said that the promotion would mean dealing with clients. Since the rest, especially the employee's feelings about being promoted are unclear, it's hard to say if he just wanted to hang onto his look or not.
More generally though, if cleaning up was all that was necessary for a promotion, I'd think most men would do it. I used to have a job where I had to wear a suit every day, then a higher paying job where it was just shirt and tie, and now I wear jeans and a t-shirt and make nearly double. But if I were offered a promotion on the condition I had to go back to suits, I'd take it in a heartbeat and look forward to my new well-cut, high quality wardrobe.
KibblesBits
Member
There's still not enough info though to judge the situation. I've seen people show up at company picnics/dinners looking like shit and sure, it probably put off people but that event wasn't mandatory.
Needs more details.
TheOohChild
Member
I just think of my work clothes as my "office uniform"
Vermillion
Banned
I feel vaguely proud that I get to be the one to mention bunny-ears lawyers
If you're on the team, wear the uniform.
Literally some shit you learn in elementary school.
Or, he will get a job elsehwere, in entertainment. Since hes talented, and they will enjoy having a productive work enviornment. Weird to consider his image, wonder if its client sales...?'
lotta neckbeards\shorts\sandals\hawaiian print\ in post-preproduction/commercials.. Including clients.
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