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[Fusebox]

People forget to place Dawkins comments in the context of his job, for the majority of his popular career he was the University of Oxford's Professor for Public Understanding of Science. This is not a fun, 'preach to the interested' role like Degrass Tyson has, it was basically a defender of science against idiocy role. More often than now I'm surprised at his tolerance in the face of said idiocy.

 

[TheKaeptain]

Hell the military doesn't even do that

Actually they do or did. The M.I. unit I was assigned to had a platoon that did just that. They can't talk about what they find though and have T.S. clearances.



But that is another thread. This is about this guy going to a B.S. college. Seriously, TS, join the military, get your G.I. bill and go to a good college.

 

[Atramental]

As long as you can produce a well rounded portfolio that shows how good you are at design you'll be fine. I have to wonder though, how good of an art or design program they have if they're a close minded religious Uni.

From what I can tell there's no design exhibits up yet but here's some of the studio art major's stuff:
http://www.bju.edu/events/fine-arts...is-and-spalding=0&art-exhibit-dueck-and-sue=0

edit: actually maybe there is but it's grouped with the studio art stuff

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

People are ignorant and stupid and would rather not hear anything that makes them doubt the ideas and beliefs that shape their lives?

WTF-GAF

 

[Devolution]

From what I can tell there's no design exhibits up yet but here's some of the studio art major's stuff:
http://www.bju.edu/events/fine-arts...is-and-spalding=0&art-exhibit-dueck-and-sue=0

I'm kind of wary of a place that doesn't show off their student work first thing. Is there no Art Show (for those outside of Fine Arts) every year for people to submit work?

 

[Pandaman]

Catarrhini comprises both Cercopithecoidea and Hominoidea, and this division occured after the split with Platyrrhini. There's no doubt whatsoever.

there is some doubt. the timing of these splits are supported primarily by genetic dating methods [like mtDNA clocks]. some scientists have suggested that because Platyrrhini emerged through the introduction of Catarrhini to a remote and uncontested environment, their evolution may have exploded to the point where they would appear to be more far removed from Catarrhini than the apes, since its not particularly uncommon to see intense levels of diversification when a species is introduced to a new environment with different niches of opportunity. look at Cichlids as they split into hundreds of distinct species as they spread into the african great lakes.

 

[Atramental]

I'm kind of wary of a place that doesn't show off their student work first thing. Is there no Art Show (for those outside of Fine Arts) every year for people to submit work?

Yes, there's an art show like that every semester.

 

[Lkr]

I think your biggest problem with art and that school is they probably limit your creativity.

 

[Devolution]

OP should take a fine art class and make something along the lines of piss christ just to troll the University.

 

[Atramental]

OP should take a fine art class and make something along the lines of piss christ just to troll the University.

Funny you should mention that work. During my freshman year I took the required art history class and the teacher's father (who is one of the top administrators of the school) had us look at a powerpoint that had all sorts of blasphemous, pro-homosexual, and blantantly anti-Christian art work. After the powerpoint was over with this person told us that this is what "we as believers" are going up against in the art world.

He got really upset when we got to the Piss Christ slide.

 

[Devolution]

Funny you should mention that work. During my freshman year I took the required art history class and the teacher's father (who is one of the top administrators of the school) had us look at a powerpoint that had all sorts of blasphemous, pro-homosexual, and blantantly anti-Christian art work. After the powerpoint was over with this person told us that this is what "we as believers" are going up against in the art world.

You know what you must do now.

 

[sullytao]

End of the day this is your life and career. Your portfolio may be fantastic but anywhere that hires will also look at your education. I dont know alot about graphic design but I imagine the job market is a very competitive field with dozens of people with great portfolios all competing for one single position. What that is the case they will probably look at those with really good degrees as a safer option. It may also go against you that you went to a radical religious college. It might make them nervous to think that your relgious views might conflict with some of your work.

If you want my advice get out of there as soon as possible. It may anger your parents but you must do what is right for you at the end of the day and this place sounds like a lunatic asylum. I know it sounds very scary moving from a very sheltered bubble of a community to the big wide world but there are groups who can help you.

If you can find a mainstream college in a city or large town that does graphic design (and I am sure there is many in the US) you will probably find a student atheist group on campus. There will probably be a few others that have done the same thing as you and will be glad to help you settle in.

Sadly Richard Dawkins and Neil Degrasse Tyson won't burst through your door, tranq dart the college security and say "Come with me if you want to live and learn". The first step has to be down to you. Take out a student loan and get a part time job to fund yourself. It sucks that it will hang over you for awhile but it will be worth it in the end.

And now I'm off to bed.

 

[Zaphod]

To address the original question, the tone someone uses does not change their argument. I could say everyone who thinks that the sky is not blue during the day is a worthless, wife beating, incestuous, ignorant, fuckhead of enormous proportions. That statement does not mean that the sky is not blue.

That said, you are probably all right if you graduate from BJU in graphic design. The portfolio is what matters, just don't be surprised if a Catholic may think twice about giving you a job.

Sadly Richard Dawkins and Neil Degrasse Tyson won't burst through your door, tranq dart the college security and say "Come with me if you want to live and learn".

That would so kick ass.

 

[Atramental]

I think Atramental is a joke character for some reason. I bet he doesn't even go to BJU.

Oh how I wish this was true...

Sadly Richard Dawkins and Neil Degrasse Tyson won't burst through your door, tranq dart the college security and say "Come with me if you want to live and learn".

This would be totally awesome.

 

[WickedAngel]

Oh no, I'm talking about a thread before that one...

But to sum it up: I better go there and obey my parents or I'll be a homeless bum on the streets.

You're pussy-whipped without getting any fucking pussy.

Believe it or not, adults of equal or lesser means than yourself have cut the cord, gone out on their own, and paid their way via grants, scholarships, and loans. Grow a fucking pair.

 

[Trojita]

Here's the problem with this line of thinking, this common criticism of science: false equivalence.

Pigs cannot fly. They do not have wings and everything we know about biology and physics points to their inability to ever take flight. It would require fucking magic.

Could magic be true? No.

But for the sake of this retarded argument. Ok... maybe there's a 0.000000000000000009% chance that magic could make a pig fly. Probably giving magic a little too much credit there in that figure... but for the sake of argument...

Ok... now lets make a pie chart: pigs can fly vs pigs cant fly.

Wait... but it looks like only one color on our chart! You can't even see the nano-sized "pigs can fly" percentage on the chart! It's invisible!

And yet someone will fucking argue this slightest, worse than invisible to the naked eye fraction of a percent means anything. They will use the fact that one cannot prove a negative, while completely ignoring burden of proof, ask something of science that it's not designed to provide, and then will take this tiniest sliver of doubt and build their entire fucking case on it:

"There's no such thing as absolute truth! So hey... WOO HOO ANYTHING GOES!"

While that is mostly exaggeration... using the inherent skepticism built into science as a way to lessen the absurdity of one's own anti-science position if fucking fallacious... it's a desperate attempt grasping at false equivalence. And it's way too common.

That's how science works and I'm glad that it works that way. A scientific statement should never start out with a bias statement to prove a point, you're just as bad as the intolerant religious people if you do this.

 

[BocoDragon]

Sadly Richard Dawkins and Neil Degrasse Tyson won't burst through your door, tranq dart the college security and say "Come with me if you want to live and learn".

I really want to see this movie!

 

[triplestation]

Holy hell dude get out of there.

 

[Trojita]

Haven't you said before that your school is aware of your GAF handle and that they sometimes check on it?

Wow..... no words except BAIL OUT

Posters of movie and music stars and fashion models are not permitted. The subjects of personal photos should not exhibit immodesty or inappropriate physical contact.
Music must be compatible with the University’s music standards: New Age, jazz, rock, and country music is not permitted. Contemporary Christian music is not permitted (e.g., Michael W. Smith, Stephen Curtis Chapman, WOW Worship, and so forth).
Televisions, DVD/videotape players and headphones are not permitted in the residence halls; computer DVD players may not be used to view movies.
You may not possess or play computer and video games rated T, M, A, or E10, or having elements of blood and gore, sensual or demonic themes, or featuring suggestive dress, bad language, or rock music.
Due to space considerations, appliances such as mini-refrigerators and microwaves are not permitted in residence hall rooms. A refrigerator and microwaves are provided in each residence hall.
Residence hall students may not watch videos above a G rating when visiting homes in town and may not attend movie theaters.
All weapons must be turned in for storage. Trigger locks are required for pistols. Fireworks are not permitted on campus.

I'm wondering how apeshit they would go over something like Bible Black

NSFW: http://www.giantbomb.com/bible-black-la-noche-de-walpurgis-/61-12166/

 

[Lkr]

i love the fact that watching movies=bad. what if you want to watch the passion of the christ?

 

[Devolution]

i love the fact that watching movies=bad. what if you want to watch the passion of the christ?

At a school like that they probably have it playing in the theater every other night.

 

[Evolved1]

That's how science works and I'm glad that it works that way. A scientific statement should never start out with a bias statement to prove a point, you're just as bad as the intolerant religious people if you do this.

I can't tell if you're criticizing my post or not... probably my fault for any confusion... my stuff in this thread is rather muddled.

All I'm ever trying to say is that, for example, in the case of evolution vs aliens/angels/anything else, it's not a 50/50 choice. Evolution is incredibly more probable because it's supported by so much evidence.

What I often see is people jump on the fact that nothing in science is 100% absolute truth and try to wedge their craziness into that tiny gap of doubt... as if any doubt of one give credence to the other.

It seems I've done poorly explaining this.

 

[mike23]

Atramental, you need to man the fuck up and drop out and go to a real college.

Even a community college is better than the place you're in now. I understand you think you can't do anything because you live with your parents, they pay for college, they wouldn't cosign a loan for you for somewhere else, bullshit. I guarantee you that after federal/state aid you'll be able to take out a student loan covering every dollar of a community college including an apartment for yourself. You'll get 10x the ROI over some religious college that no sane employer will take seriously.

 

[phisheep]

While still on Jerry Coyne's book web site, scroll down to the last review, which should be a paragraph by Richard Dawkins. Read this paragraph in light of the criticism Judith Hooper received. Why is the tone of this paragraph so strident, so intolerant?

Compose a thoughtful one or two paragraph post to the discussion board titled "Jerry Coyne" for this class. The post may contain a brief quotation from Dawkins or others, but should primarily be your own words. This will be part of your grade. "Me too" posts will not receive credit. You must comment on 1 other student's original post as well.

Well, for all the direction this thread has taken, that seems to me a perfectly reasonable question to ask. Why the hate for it?

Of course Dawkins is strident and intolerant (when has he not been?) - it's a combination of his reasonable conviction of what is true and his reasonably irritated approach to those who deny it without reason. What does anybody want? That Dawkins because he is right (which he is) should not be accused of being strident and intolerant (definitely both)?

Kind of sounds like double standards to me.

Of course, the answer you give to the college may not be what they expect, but doesn't mean that the question is at all invalid. And so far as the answer goes, that's your call. How far do you want to go?

 

[Trojita]

I can't tell if you're criticizing my post or not... probably my fault for any confusion... my stuff in this thread is rather muddled.

All I'm ever trying to say is that, for example, in the case of evolution vs aliens/angels/anything else, it's not a 50/50 choice. Evolution is incredibly more probable because it's supported by so much evidence.

What I often see is people jump on the fact that nothing in science is 100% absolute truth and try to wedge their craziness into that tiny gap of doubt... as if any doubt of one give credence to the other.

It seems I've done poorly explaining this.

I understand what you are saying. It was a bit muddled.

The hilarious things I see are when a creationist museum will have a blanket statement as a counterpoint trying to discredit Evolution without any kind of evidence to support the view.

 

[Evolved1]

I understand what you are saying. It was a bit muddled.

The hilarious things I see are when a creationist museum will have a blanket statement as a counterpoint trying to discredit Evolution without any kind of evidence to support the view.

Or even literal blankets... like the ones they put under the dinosaur saddles.

 

[Snaku]

No, he doesn't. He places himself at 6 on his 1-7 belief scale (7 being "Definitely no god") and explicitly states that no reasonable person can be a 7. He admits he's probably like a 6.99, but believe it or not, Richard Dawkins does have as clear a view (possibly moreso!) of the issue as Incensed Agnostic GAF.

Well they're blatantly making shit up about the creation of the universe, why stop there? What's putting words into the mouth of an evil atheist gonna hurt?

 

[The Technomancer]

Well, for all the direction this thread has taken, that seems to me a perfectly reasonable question to ask. Why the hate for it?

Of course Dawkins is strident and intolerant (when has he not been?) - it's a combination of his reasonable conviction of what is true and his reasonably irritated approach to those who deny it without reason. What does anybody want? That Dawkins because he is right (which he is) should not be accused of being strident and intolerant (definitely both)?

Kind of sounds like double standards to me.

Its not a double standard at all. Actually, its holding them both to the same standard. If Dawkins is going to claim that he is better then the other side, then he should act like it. Just because creationists/religious zealots are strident and intolerant doesn't give him a free pass to act the same way.

 

[Lkr]

Atramental, you need to man the fuck up and drop out and go to a real college.

Even a community college is better than the place you're in now. I understand you think you can't do anything because you live with your parents, they pay for college, they wouldn't cosign a loan for you for somewhere else, bullshit. I guarantee you that after federal/state aid you'll be able to take out a student loan covering every dollar of a community college including an apartment for yourself. You'll get 10x the ROI over some religious college that no sane employer will take seriously.

he'll just make an excuse. i think he either likes the attention he gets on gaf or secretly is into the college

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

So let me get this straight, BJU students can't play Marvel vs. Capcom 3 or watch porn on campus?

I think I would have lasted maybe a week at that school.

 

[Fusebox]

If Dawkins is going to claim that he is better then the other side, then he should act like it. Just because creationists/religious zealots are strident and intolerant doesn't give him a free pass to act the same way.

Define "better". Dawkins preaches science and facts, he doesn't claim to be preaching rightousness and tolerance as mandated by an invisible being. If he was, I'd agree with you.

 

[cntr]

What the fuck, OP? You shouldn't be in that shitty place. Do anything to get yourself out of it.

 

[jgkspsx]

Well, for all the direction this thread has taken, that seems to me a perfectly reasonable question to ask. Why the hate for it?

Of course Dawkins is strident and intolerant (when has he not been?) - it's a combination of his reasonable conviction of what is true and his reasonably irritated approach to those who deny it without reason. What does anybody want? That Dawkins because he is right (which he is) should not be accused of being strident and intolerant (definitely both)?

Kind of sounds like double standards to me.

Of course, the answer you give to the college may not be what they expect, but doesn't mean that the question is at all invalid. And so far as the answer goes, that's your call. How far do you want to go?

Bravo. That's the answer I would have liked to have given had I not told the OP to get out while he still can.

 

[Atramental]

Tomorrow I'll make some sort of "How to become independent of your household?" thread.

Seriously, I'm completely in the dark when it comes to student loans, renting an appartment, etc. I've been completely pampered and treated like a child all of my life.

 

[Bungalow Bob]

I'll give a serious answer in case no one else has yet:

Dawkins' tone is intolerant because he is so well educated in this field. The theory of evolution is so easily falsifiable (all it would take is one incompatible piece of evidence to destroy the theory), has so much evidence supporting it (a literally uncountable amount), and has led to so many correct predictions that the likelihood that it is correct is very high (far more likely, for example, than the likelihood that the people who you think are your parents actually being your real parents).

 

[IrishNinja]

He goes to Bob Jones University; there is only one side that the teacher wants.

my god. the wiki for that place is...i'm pretty sure i'm reading a bad sci-fi here.

 

[BuddhaRockstar]

Tomorrow I'll make some sort of "How to become independent of your household?" thread.

Seriously, I'm completely in the dark when it comes to student loans, renting an appartment, etc. I've been completely pampered and treated like a child all of my life.

Don't you have real life friends you can ask for help or do your parents still arrange playdates for you?

 

[Atramental]

Here's two more comments that I found humorous.

Evolutionists don't seem to have any logic at all! They believe in something that they have no proof of, and refuse to believe in the Bible which has lot's of proof. They change their mind depending on what suits them best.

This is so true. The evolutionist has been brainwashed to believe a lie and when he finds that it is a lie he cannot admit it. Therefore several very intelligent men resort to throwing temper tantrums to get their way.

Oh the irony is so delicious.

Don't you have real life friends you can ask for help or do your parents still arrange playdates for you?

Okay, maybe not like a complete child...

But no, I only have one real life friend and he lives in Texas right now. Plus, he's getting ready to go into the Navy.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

A, watch this (multiple times) and then get your ass to work:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z5OookwOoY&feature=related

 

[Gaborn]

Funny you should mention that work. During my freshman year I took the required art history class and the teacher's father (who is one of the top administrators of the school) had us look at a powerpoint that had all sorts of blasphemous, pro-homosexual, and blantantly anti-Christian art work. After the powerpoint was over with this person told us that this is what "we as believers" are going up against in the art world.

He got really upset when we got to the Piss Christ slide.

That's very interesting. I remember when I was in college and took an art class (the prof was incredibly over obsessed with Vermeer to the point it made EVERYONE temporarily and irrationally hate the dutch but that's another subject) he also showed us videos with Sister Wendy discussing various art related subjects which was very entertaining. Back in the day (I found this out later out of curiosity) apparently Bill Moyer even interviewed her and asked her opinion of Piss Christ.

 

[Yoshiya]

Seriously, I'm completely in the dark when it comes to student loans, renting an appartment, etc. I've been completely pampered and treated like a child all of my life.

Wow, I never would have guessed. Really though, get out of there. Any 'qualification' you get from a place like that has the approximate credibility of shitting on a piece of paper, smearing it around and declaring it a degree and yourself a doctor.

Those rules though... first thing in a while to make me literally laugh out loud. I must break every single one and all the school's principles. I wouldn't be let in the gate haha. How do you survive there? Really? On that, how is GAF not blocked from the campus internet service?

Speaking of shitting on paper, don't just leave. Create 'shit christ' and submit it to one of those shows, then GTFO. Remember, pics and a detailed account.

 

[Tornado Condor]

Telling atramental to move out of his house and college is like making a rock bleed: it will never happen.

He makes so many threads about how miserable he is and yet he doesn't do anything about it. Quit feeding the troll, people.

 

[Trent Strong]

Tomorrow I'll make some sort of "How to become independent of your household?" thread.

Seriously, I'm completely in the dark when it comes to student loans, renting an appartment, etc. I've been completely pampered and treated like a child all of my life.

Screw it, just keep living with your parents and keep going to BJU until you get your degree. Then you can move out and live however you want. What's it gonna hurt if you stay there a couple of more years? You're getting a free degree. You've got plenty of time after college to "live the atheist lifestyle".

 

[Aquavelvaman]

Join the military. You'll learn how to be a big boy and you'll get free college somewhere else. Problem solved.

 

[NotWii]

Evolution is true, but not for humans, deal with it

 

[Yoshiya]

Evolution is true, but not for humans, deal with it

Huh? Isn't being a Great Ape good enough for you?

 

[BocoDragon]

Evolution is true, but not for humans, deal with it

brilliant.

 

[iapetus]

Dawkins is, of course, wrong, and the question of why he's so strident about his views is an interesting one to some extent, but not when it's part of such an ideologically loaded agenda.

I say that he's wrong because I've met people who don't entirely believe in evolution who are intelligent, humble and sane. I disagree with them thoroughly and think they are wrong to hold the views they do, but I'm not going to deny that they exist, and I'm not going to make the mistake of claiming that because they don't fit into my preconceptions of creationists I get to dismiss them as insane.

 

[Nekofrog]

I'm going to suggest it again: stop being a pussy and join the military, bro. You'll be able to do what you want to do, free of your parents reign. And then you'll have a true achievement under your belt.

Or you can join the military and stay a pussy like me. AIR FORCE YAY.

 

[KevinCow]

I say that he's wrong because I've met people who don't entirely believe in evolution who are intelligent, humble and sane.

Then they are ignorant.