-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Evolve |OT| Leaving Monsters 4 Dead
- Thread starter Papercuts
- Start date
Cabot's Dust Trackerbomb thing seems to get rid of Wraith decoys immediately? We were dropping it on Wraiths when the dome came down and they just could not get away due to that + Caira.
Hell yeah. Bringing me back to my Teamfortress Demoman days.
Hell yeah. Bringing me back to my Teamfortress Demoman days.
Regret Upon Approval
Member
Feels good to catch the hiding monster your teammates missed. Even if it was by luck.
http://xboxclips.com/finalknight92/cdd422e8-ee0b-4d9c-bfe7-7515157c4887
http://xboxclips.com/finalknight92/cdd422e8-ee0b-4d9c-bfe7-7515157c4887
Can people see the flames on an invisible Wraith from Caira's grenades? Every time I play Wraith and get hit by one, people still focus entirely on the decoy. Even in the middle of a fight, I'll be on fire, standing right next to the decoy and the hunters still don't shoot at me.
And just a reminder, stop wasting your time shooting the decoy.
And just a reminder, stop wasting your time shooting the decoy.
Revolutionary
Member
I feel like the only monster player that doesn't like Wraith at all. The low armor is just crap for me, because I like to fight at stage 1 and 2 with Goliath and Kraken.
With Wraith, I'm encouraged to continue running away with such low health + armor at stage 1, and running away is obviously very easy with Wraith. It's not what I consider fun.
With Wraith, I'm encouraged to continue running away with such low health + armor at stage 1, and running away is obviously very easy with Wraith. It's not what I consider fun.
They can still decoy (and the dust effect will move to the decoy) but the real one will still be uncovered when it goes away. Same with Abe's dart or Val's tranq.
I think she's really fun to play but am mainly focusing on Goliath for now. But when I play her I try to use abduction and team separation more and try to end a game before stage 3. Decoy makes it easy to get into a really lame playstyle.
I love playing all three of the medics, but it's especially fun getting great arcs on her shots. Or just jetpacking over the monster and raining heal nades.
I love playing her in Rescue and picking up survivors from really far away.
supervillain
Member
just got the game yesterday.
played a couple of solo matches to get familiar with all the different characters.
seems really fun so far so would be nice to team up with some gaffers for online matches.
feel free to add me: King_Sabotage (PS4/EU)
played a couple of solo matches to get familiar with all the different characters.
seems really fun so far so would be nice to team up with some gaffers for online matches.
feel free to add me: King_Sabotage (PS4/EU)
Zombie Lyle
Member
Won't be picking this game up until the weekend at the earliest. Is it worthwhile to play the IOS game to rank up the hunters?
I'd say that any monster that knows what it is doing will mercilessly target the medic at the start of every combat until they are dead, so there's really not much of a chance to do anything if you don't have invisibility. Maybe I need some tips on how to survive as Val and Caira, but in my experience just staying away from combat with Lazarus and activating cloak when needed works wonders, and gets the monster off your back when it would otherwise chase you tirelessly.
Level 1 monsters, sure, I can see that. Level 2, though? No way. Caira is simply unable to heal herself at a fast enough rate to make up for the damage being done to her by a monster who knows that the one thing to do at the start of every combat is to get rid of the medic.
Also, "dodging damage" as a human in Evolve only works for so long. A monster who wants you dead will have you dead. There's no way around that. It may pay the price with health, but if it makes you its target, it will kill you.
I very much prefer playing as Goliath myself. I feel much more confident with it, and hardly ever run into trouble in combat. Wraith is fast and easy as hell to fool hunters with, of course, but any mistakes are payed dearly. With Goliath I can easily get into combat at level 2 or even level 1 if I so choose, with minimum consequences. In fact, as a regular monster player, I have to say, the time I felt the most powerless when going up against a good team of hunters was precisely as a Wraith. My Goliath remains pretty much untouchable, though.
I get the Wraith complaints. He's annoying if not downright boring to fight, yeah. But it really isn't better or more OP than its two monster pals. All three of them are pretty much at the same level.
Caira uses her acceleration field to race around like crazy while keeping her jetpack filled up for dodges.
Val is a little trickier cause she needs to constantly keep the monster tranqd to be able to stay away from it.
Laz is Laz.
If a monster only focuses on the Medic, the other three hunters are free to use whatever they want and punish it for it. Harpoon traps, Harpoon gun, stasis grenades, orbital strike, loads of turrets around, etc...
I'm not saying it's easy for a medic, but if the game was as simple as "focus the medic, he can't do anything, you win" for the monsters, then we'd be seeing a very different WLR and community feedback.
Edit: I just won a round as Goliath where I went Stage 1 lvl 3 rock throw again. This time against a Laz. I used the corpses as bait cause I had a nice ranged attack and just threw my rocks at him ^^
Finished the game at Stage 2 with lvl 3 rock and lvl 3 fire.
This is what it was like:
I fucking hate playing wraith. Goliath is the perfect monster, all of his moves mesh so well together, except rock throw. Leap Smash into charge into fire breath is such a good combo.
Wraith doesn't feel fun to play at all. Kraken is also pretty hit and miss with me.
I also enjoy playing the Wraith the least. It just feel like cheating. If I'm in trouble I just pop that OP decoy and it will down the hunters half the time and I cloak away and then warp halfway across the map. Goliath is my favorite putting points into fire breath, leap smash, and charge. Have yet to die as a Goliath yet being level 31.
Also I found out that in defend once a hunter has two strikes and dies he comes back with no strikes. Seems like a flaw to me. The hunter should keep two strikes the rest of the match.
Also I found out that in defend once a hunter has two strikes and dies he comes back with no strikes. Seems like a flaw to me. The hunter should keep two strikes the rest of the match.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Kraken is my favorite monster unless I'm up against Val. Because Kraken tends to be more visible as he leaps into the air to get away, Val can tranq him a lot more and it is absolutely crippling. Some maps where there's more high cover it's not so bad, but some have a lot of open air and there's not shit you can really do aside from fly full speed at very low level, which can be tricky to do.
Edit: I've gotten pretty good at floating around wrecking people and punishing them for attempting revives. The only pain is that aftershock is pretty fucking useless most of the time, and doesn't mesh well with Kraken's playstyle at all.
Edit: I've gotten pretty good at floating around wrecking people and punishing them for attempting revives. The only pain is that aftershock is pretty fucking useless most of the time, and doesn't mesh well with Kraken's playstyle at all.
a team with Abe and Val is fucking death to a kraken, especially on defend.
Focusing on the medic is usually not the best idea if you got caught in the arena while being level 1, yeah, but otherwise, going tirelessly after the medic is almost invariably the best option. And it works like a charm, every time. Hunters can't do much about it, because harpoon traps or stasis grenades only slightly delay the inevitable, being more of a nuisance than anything else, and orbital strikes never work in this kind of situation due to the mere fact that the medic is running for his/her life, and as such, the monster is in constant movement too.
Once the medic goes, the rest of the team is completely vulnerable, so whatever sacrifice the monster takes for focusing on the medic is 100% worth it.
So I have mostly been playing evacuation now, and I love playing the monster. I usually use Goliath for hunt and rescue, and kraken in nest (I hate playing wraith, I just don't find her fun to use)
I usually do pretty well, as I win most of the games in the evac session as the monster, except defend. I have only won twice (by the skin of my teeth, with a sliver of health or less than a minute on the clock), and have come very close many times but keep getting killed in the end, with the 3rd generator only having less than 1/4 of its health left.
I feel like defend is incredibly stacked against the monster. I have no idea how you can win it with Goliath or Wraith. Kraken is the most sensible option since his ranged moves mean you can keep away from the turrets and the traps the hunters have set up. But your moves don't seem as damaging. I am constantly using vortex and lightning and banshee mines and the projectile move, and it takes so long to kill a generator. Even with the minion armor boost, a good team can take down your minions in seconds, making them a distraction at best rather than something helpful.
Not to mention that fighting the hunters is a waste of time and health, because even if you kill them all, they are just going to come back, and usually killing all of them takes 1/2 your health away. Getting too close to the hunters usually ends with you taking way to much damage.
Its really hard, and its a god damn nightmare if you are fighting a team with Val, Abe and Bucket, because they constantly ground kraken and slow it down ,and then drop an arena, and can take away so much of your health.
I dred the defend phase of evac, because I struggle for minutes, come close and ultimately lose, and feel like I have so many odds stacked against me, even though I won the previous 4 matches.
I am also not a fan that the game treats the winner of the defend session as the winner of the evac session, but then again winning as the monster is depressing because the cutscene following is brutal.
Anyone else struggling, or have any tips to make defend a bit manageable for me?
I usually do pretty well, as I win most of the games in the evac session as the monster, except defend. I have only won twice (by the skin of my teeth, with a sliver of health or less than a minute on the clock), and have come very close many times but keep getting killed in the end, with the 3rd generator only having less than 1/4 of its health left.
I feel like defend is incredibly stacked against the monster. I have no idea how you can win it with Goliath or Wraith. Kraken is the most sensible option since his ranged moves mean you can keep away from the turrets and the traps the hunters have set up. But your moves don't seem as damaging. I am constantly using vortex and lightning and banshee mines and the projectile move, and it takes so long to kill a generator. Even with the minion armor boost, a good team can take down your minions in seconds, making them a distraction at best rather than something helpful.
Not to mention that fighting the hunters is a waste of time and health, because even if you kill them all, they are just going to come back, and usually killing all of them takes 1/2 your health away. Getting too close to the hunters usually ends with you taking way to much damage.
Its really hard, and its a god damn nightmare if you are fighting a team with Val, Abe and Bucket, because they constantly ground kraken and slow it down ,and then drop an arena, and can take away so much of your health.
I dred the defend phase of evac, because I struggle for minutes, come close and ultimately lose, and feel like I have so many odds stacked against me, even though I won the previous 4 matches.
I am also not a fan that the game treats the winner of the defend session as the winner of the evac session, but then again winning as the monster is depressing because the cutscene following is brutal.
Anyone else struggling, or have any tips to make defend a bit manageable for me?
Sorry, I meant after Decoy has popped. So dust hits after Decoy appears, but Wraith is still in target area. Decoy goes away immediately, it seems. We beat the Wraith down so badly doing this, he switched to Goliath (and also got murdered).
This is where teamwork comes in, though. A monster will not catch my speedster Caira unless I mess up. If speed runs out and the monster is still on me (remembering that I am also using Markov's mines to intimidate / throw a pick, as it were), I just yell and the Support throws his cloak up and I slip away.
All the while he is taking murderous damage / getting harassed by harpoons or stasis grenades. Caira works great with Cabot due to this because that dps add makes it so the Monster life just looks like it's constantly disappearing.
I feel you are REALLY oversimplifying the whole game here.
Again, if the whole game was "Monster focuses medic, there is nothing hunters can do, monster wins" then that is all we would be seeing and hearing about. We are not though.
PrivateRyan
Member
Exactly.
Go after the Medic works, unless Support is keeping Medic's shields up. Then you have to go after Support. Which frees Medic to heal. Etc. In the meantime, you're taking fire from Assault. If Daisy is present, Daisy can revive fallen players. Etc. Priorities change and change often.
I'll say as well, as someone who tends not to speak when playing online, playing with randoms is far more annoying in this than it ever was in Left 4 Dead. Had a Laz last night who didn't resurrect anyone and a Maggie who didn't throw a single mobile arena and kept running in the opposite direction to Daisy. There was also a Griffin who only used one sound spike the entire game. And watching the last alive player try and take on the monster single-handed when the monster doesn't know where the player is when there are less than 20 seconds to go on the dropship? Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.
I've sent them quick messages after the game to explain mobile arenas/sound spikes/etc but it's annoying when it happens during the game itself.
I hated Daisy....
....until we fought a Kraken who snuck EVERYWHERE. No tracks, no birds, nothing. It was insane. Wish we had Daisy then.
Or, your trapper could have used sound spikes or tracers on animals.
I've mastered Maggie, and Daisy is the worst part about playing her.
We did use sound spikes. He was still avoiding them for the most part. I'm not saying they were placed in the best spots...
But, we did use them.Daisy is the best what am I hearing.
I got a skin SPECIFICALLY so I had a black/red Daisy.
Daisy is love, Daisy is life.
Seanjohn
Neo Member
Indeed! Caira speed burst helps daisy be more effective but her AI logic is baffling @ times
If Hank is on the field, then I think he is the #1 target over the medic. Mainly because he can prevent damage to his teammates, while most medics can only reduce the damage to teammates. So if you attack the medic first, Hank can abosultely render the monsters attacks ineffect for a long period of time. If the monster attacks Hank ( depending on the monsters attack levels ) then the best the hunters can do is reduce the damage hank takes by healing, but eventually Hank is going to go down.
On top of that Hanks invisibility makes him a pain in the rear for the monster when reviving teammates.
Also hanks orbital strike can force the monster off a teammates incapacitated body, but other members have a hard time forcing monster off hanks corps. Plus its hard for hank to call in his strike when he is running for his life
I am very early on in playing the monster, but in my uniformed opinion Hank is a higher priority target than the medics. Once Hank is down, I shift to the medic.
Again I am very early and only have a handful of games to draw on as the monster. So I could be completely off.
It annoys me that the PR for this game is so bad.
Ugh,tell me about it. My friends in Skype always shit on the game when I play it, even though they understand I can have fun with it. Everywhere you look the game is being shat on, called "DLC THE GAME" or "boring running simulator".
The concurrent players on Steam keep going down and down at peak. It's just sad
swearing-circle
Member
So I'm thinking about picking this up but I'm wary because I'm not that interested in playing as the monster. However, I can get the game for really cheap and I'm expecting to have it as a pick up and play game as opposed to a game I play for days on end.
Is it fun playing as the hunters and are you ever forced to play as the monster? I plan to try out the monster if I get it but I prefer team play to solo play.
Really want a new game to try out and I'm gutted I was away during both the alpha and the beta but again, I really want an mp game to play alongside the order when it comes out. Do you guys think it would be a good idea fore to pick it up?
Is it fun playing as the hunters and are you ever forced to play as the monster? I plan to try out the monster if I get it but I prefer team play to solo play.
Really want a new game to try out and I'm gutted I was away during both the alpha and the beta but again, I really want an mp game to play alongside the order when it comes out. Do you guys think it would be a good idea fore to pick it up?
If you can get it for really cheap I don't think it'd be much of a problem.
If you solo queue you will definitely end up playing as the monster, somedays more somedays less. The moment you queue with one other person you won't be the monster ever (if the matchmaking doesn't bug
).But yeah, playing hunters is very fun and so is playing monster.
I actually am way more of a hunter player, I barely played or play monster but the funny thing is, the more you play as hunter and get better at the game, the easier it actually is to play some rounds as monster and have fun, cause you become what you hunted and know what to do and what to avoid.
Pro tip: Go into solo defend games against Kraken and keep far away and just tranq like a madman. Works on the minions too.
Oh yeah I know that but can it be spammed? Or do I have to wait until it wears off?
I sadly don't know,you'll have to try.
If they can't be spammed, atleast hers only last a few seconds instead of waiting for abe's long tracker to go away.
If Hank is on the field, then I think he is the #1 target over the medic. Mainly because he can prevent damage to his teammates, while most medics can only reduce the damage to teammates. So if you attack the medic first, Hank can abosultely render the monsters attacks ineffect for a long period of time. If the monster attacks Hank ( depending on the monsters attack levels ) then the best the hunters can do is reduce the damage hank takes by healing, but eventually Hank is going to go down.
On top of that Hanks invisibility makes him a pain in the rear for the monster when reviving teammates.
Also hanks orbital strike can force the monster off a teammates incapacitated body, but other members have a hard time forcing monster off hanks corps. Plus its hard for hank to call in his strike when he is running for his life
I am very early on in playing the monster, but in my uniformed opinion Hank is a higher priority target than the medics. Once Hank is down, I shift to the medic.
Again I am very early and only have a handful of games to draw on as the monster. So I could be completely off.
This is usually true, but I'd still do it based on the rest of the team or even the battle arena. I'd rather try to focus laz over hank. since even getting him down lets him cloak and make it easy to miss the revive based on the other team not making it easy to just smack his downed body.
But if the arena is really elevated or curved I might ignore him more. Charge is such a strong move for just pulling people out of sight to break the shielding, then you get then in a corner for a little and do huge damage. Make it too hard for him to keep up with the line of sight.
Bucket's turrets can be infuriating so I try to get him out of the way, but not in the same necessity as I feel with Hank/Cabot. Cabot's damage amp is terrifying, I think I rush him more than Hank.
Playing as a Goliath, went against a team that finally had some of its crap together that wasn't my own premade. I'd honestly say they were winning.
Finally got away, started to Evolve to level 3, but they had used the cloak to keep tabs / expecting me to evolve. I came out of the cocoon with great fury as they had bombarded me, the bastards.
Managed to incap one of them, turn around as if I was a newb monster.....then turned again and max lvl 3 rock tossed at the guy trying to revive his buddy. Single handedly turned the tide with one rock toss.
Finally got away, started to Evolve to level 3, but they had used the cloak to keep tabs / expecting me to evolve. I came out of the cocoon with great fury as they had bombarded me, the bastards.
Managed to incap one of them, turn around as if I was a newb monster.....then turned again and max lvl 3 rock tossed at the guy trying to revive his buddy. Single handedly turned the tide with one rock toss.
Revolutionary
Member
So I got put into yet another ongoing game as Lazarus. I'm doing my job, healing as best I can, spot the monster in the distance so I mark him and boost a few times in its direction. All of a sudden I see two skull icons on my screen. One teammate was grabbed by a megamouth and the other walked into a plant. Over a hundred meters away. As I start heading over to them to revive, I see yet another skull icon: the third teammate continued to the monster solo and was pounced.
And that's why I always play Monster.
And that's why I always play Monster.
I had a game yesterday as the monster where I got cut off by the medic by himself, with none of his team rates even in smell ping range. I don't understand what people are even trying to do sometimes.
All of that has a counter in the monster's arsenal. The monster is just faster than the hunters, arguably even faster than Caira's speed bost (which is extremely limited and needs a long time to recharge, anyway), so running away is not an option unless the monster is constantly changing targets in the middle of combat before the previous one is down. Which is about the worst mistake that a monster can make in a match.
Many times have I eaten up loads and loads of mines, harpoons, grenades and what have you as a Goliath when chasing down a target (Wraith is a different story though, definitely). And it just doesn't matter. Once you are dead set on a hunter, he or she is going down, unless you as a monster are a level 1 or a low health level 2. If you can get get away so easily from a monster, I'd argue that you are playing against pretty bad monsters. Smell, speed, strength, life... The monster just has every possible tool at its disposal to commit to a target, track it, chase it down and eliminate it, all while eating up whatever the other hunters throw at it in the process. So, the monsters that you are facing are either not making full use of the monster's prowess, or they are making the huge mistake I mentioned of changing targets mid-battle (which is the sign of a bad monster).
From my experience as a monster, going Hank first and medic second is a big big mistake, one that many monsters are tricked into making precisely because of the intuitive (though in my opinion wrong) idea that once Hank is down, killing other members will be easy without his shielding ability. But this creates some problems for the monster: If we are talking about ignoring the trapper (or leaving them for last), going 1) Hank, 2) Medic, 3) Assault, that makes it three hunters that you have to kill off before the threat of heavy damage (Assault) is gone. That's a huuuge time for that very same person to take off a huge chunk of your life bar... if not all of it! Going 1) Medic, 2) Assault, though, is fast an efficient. Even if you don't kill off assault, taking the medic out completely cripples the hunter team. And even if you don't get to kill the medic off, simply taking them down once will already help in doing so quickly next time you have to battle the hunters (due to the reduced health handicap).
This is my reasoning for why Hank is not such a threat for you as a monster:
First off, Hank's shield is a life bar of its own, meaning, the monster can just keep beating up the person who is being protected and the shield will go down faster. It's a useful ability, of course, but not one that will protect a target from a fully committed monster. Once the shield's charge is up, it takes a long time for it to become fully effective again; by then, whoever the monster was targeting will be dead already. If anything, I'd argue that Val and Caira healing you up acts as a more effective shield than Hank's actual shield.
The orbital strike is dangerous indeed, but if you can recognize when firing is raining over your head, all you have to do is get away from the impact zone. Problem solved. You won't have to worry about the orbital strike for the remainder of that battle.
Invisibility has too many counters for it to work against skilled monsters; from the footprints that hunters make, to the visual cues that give their locations away (like being hit or when they use their jetpacks). Invisibility is a tool that works well when the monster isn't aware of you and you want to keep it that way, and while sometimes it can force the monster to give up and switch targets, good monster players will still be able to locate the person they want to kill.
I do honestly think that going after the medic first and fully committing to taking him or her down is an unbeatable tactic. That is, unbeatable for any level 2 monster or above. The only real counter to it, in my opinion, is to effectively track the monster down and take as much of its health as possible while it's still stage 1. In my experience, letting a skilled monster player who uses this tactic evolve even once while being near full health (assuming the hunters equally skilled) means that the hunters have already lost. It's not even a match at that point.