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F1 2010 |OT| The 12th Annual Hermann Tilke Championship

Lucius86 said:
Come on, I think that's a tad unfair. Playing the game feels good. The AI is just utterly broken - but it doesn't mean the rest of it is rubbish.

It handles very nicely. However, the AI is INTENTIONALLY undeveloped. It's not even broken, this is a design choice. The fuel load / pitstops and all are broken but the choice to not have proper AI is not a 'fault' per se. It just shows that the game needed another 6 - 12 months in development in order to bring this element up to speed with 2000.
 

Razgreez

Member
Lucius86 said:
Come on, I think that's a tad unfair. Playing the game feels good. The AI is just utterly broken - but it doesn't mean the rest of it is rubbish.

The feeling to you might be fine. To me it's just, as stated earlier, frustrating. Don't get me wrong when i say "rubbish" i'm not doing it with a red and angered face. I mean it honestly and calmly. I spent 3 hrs this morning trying to acquire a rythm in the game - with regards to my driving - yet i cant. Whether i'm driving at 5/10ths or 10/10ths the "feeling" of the car is the same. That just isn't right. Even when watching external replays the cars just dont behave, visually, the way real F1 cars do on track. They're way to skittish. Add to that the fact that i cant do a proper race weekend, due to bugs and glitchy AI, and it's all rather ridiculous

One more thing that's rather apparent in this game is the lack of character with regards to the actual surface of the tracks. Sure one's car is bumping around but it's never really being unsettled like actual F1 cars are and the tracks just look "flat" anyway
 

Aspiring

Member
Was going to grab this today but this thread as well as the Codies forums made me miss it. Is the times really just made up?

Anyway how does it perform on PS3 and 360? Which is better? And how does it compare to the amazing F1CE?
 

NHale

Member
Lucius86 said:
Come on, I think that's a tad unfair. Playing the game feels good. The AI is just utterly broken - but it doesn't mean the rest of it is rubbish.

Exactly. People often say that the gameplay is all that matter in a game but now it seems is how big is the list of bugs. F1 2010 gameplay is still miles better than F1CE and that's all that matters to me...

With that said, it's incredible what they did with the AI. If the lap times are a lie, why display them in the HUD? I prefer no info at all than false info. Sure the game is simulating the AI somewhere because after all the pitstops the positions very often remain the same.

I was suspecting this already, but surely this game didn't had a lot of QA. Probably was only to make sure that the game didn't make any PC/console explode or something, because some of the bugs are something anyone would notice after 3 races...
 

Sloane

Banned
NHale said:
Exactly. People often say that the gameplay is all that matter in a game but now it seems is how big is the list of bugs. F1 2010 gameplay is still miles better than F1CE and that's all that matters to me...
As TheDrowningMan has pointed out, the fake AI isn't a bug but a design decision. They chose on purpose not to simulate the cars you are supposedly driving against and that stupid decision leads to a lot of bugs. How exactly can you consider that not to be a part of the gameplay?
 
Are pit stops completely borked? It's taking me 16 seconds + to pit mid way through a race, even though my pit crew aren't doing anything, it seems they wait for the cars behind in the pit lane to finish their work, before letting them pass and then letting me out.
 
woodsey1982 said:
Are pit stops completely borked? It's taking me 16 seconds + to pit mid way through a race, even though my pit crew aren't doing anything, it seems they wait for the cars behind in the pit lane to finish their work, before letting them pass and then letting me out.

I haven't had any problems yet. I just pit before or after they ask you to, and the pitlane is clear.
 

NHale

Member
Sloane said:
As TheDrowningMan has pointed out, the fake AI isn't a bug but a design decision. They chose on purpose not to simulate the cars you are supposedly driving against and that stupid decision leads to a lot of bugs. How exactly can you consider that not to be a part of the gameplay?

Because that doesn't make a difference in the gameplay? If the HUD didn't showed the AI lap times, nobody would have guessed the game was not simulating the AI cars in the track. They are being simulated "somewhere" and they appear on track when they are on your FOV like pop-in in other games. It's not ideal and not having split times to the car ahead/behind is clearly a big mistake but that doesn't take anything away from the gameplay to me.

EDIT: If the bold is true, how can you explain the race positions that remain more or less the same after everyone making the pitstops even with some AI cars pitting 2 laps before/after?
 

LALILULELO

Neo Member
Jut doing the time trails and multiplayer are great, the car feel is top notch.
The A.I thing is very frustrating when playing it seriously.. and here I was hoping for something comparable to my old PC F1 game by mr F1 Geoff Crammond..

I feel extremely disappointed by the reviews not pointing the A.I nonsense out.
For a "next gen" game this bullshit is inexcusable..
However for the moment still able to enjoy it in a semi arcadey way..fix this shit!
 
NHale said:
If that was true, how can you explain the race positions that remain more or less the same after everyone making the pitstops even with some AI cars pitting 2 laps before/after?

Because that doesn't make a difference in the gameplay? If the HUD didn't showed the AI lap times, nobody would have guessed the game was not simulating the AI cars in the track. They are being simulated "somewhere" and they appear on track when they are on your FOV like pop-in in other games. It's not ideal and not having split times to the car ahead/behind is clearly a big mistake but that doesn't take anything away from the gameplay to me.

There are plenty of other issues with the overly robotic AI - always crashing in the same place on courses, sometimes failing to pit at all...and this is also responsible for their failure to adhere to fuel load / tyre wear simulation. Read any interview before hand...the AI was talked up big time...it was going to be organic, it wasn't going to have a hint of rubber about it yet come the game's arrival it's one of the most basic, flawed and simplistic elements. As has been stated, much of this stuff was bread and butter to Geoff Crammond several years ago.

For the record, I do not blame the development team - I have no doubt that they wanted what they talked of but were forced into a very tight frame for release.
 

itxaka

Defeatist
Dragnet said:
This game is bullshit sometimes. I decided I needed more of a challenge so I turned a few options on, a few off and notched up the difficulty to hard. Went into a race at Monza and was enjoying Practicing and tuning the car. My first session ended kind of weirdly, driving along and my left rear tyre blew, somehow totaling my car (red screen) and ending the session. Fair enough I guess, but it was only my 3rd lap on those tyres, I wasn't over gravel or anything like that and there was no debris, I was the only car on the track.

I carry on anyway, get through Practice 2 just fine and move on to Practice 3. A few laps in and guess what.. the exact same shit happens again on the same corner, except to the front left tyre. This time my car wasn't totaled, but again there was no reason for it. I told myself it was because I was driving too hard, perhaps.

I struggle through Qualifying and because of penalties I got in Practice, I get thrown back to 24th. 3 laps in and yup, same corner, same blown tyre. Something is wrong with the game, I don't know if it's just that corner of Monza or if the game blows your tyres silly amounts when you turn the difficulty up, but somethings wrong and I'm taking a break.

In the case that it is the corner and others want to test it, I don't know the corners name but it's the one that leads into the slalom just before the big straight, final big turn and final straight.

/rant.

I played on a friends house the other day as I wasn't sure about getting it yet. The game is solid but something like this happened to me.

I did 3 races with q's and all and I was beating the shit out of everyone so I turned up the difficultyu. Not bad, getting 8-16 in both races and Q's but then something happened. I can't remember which circuit was but there was thi corner where my car will always roll for no apparent reason. Didn't touch anything, didn't get out of the path, didn't went too fast in fact I went really slow to avoid it and it keep on rolling me over for no freaking reason.


Oh and after that I went to another race, pretty good one, I was 4th, alonso , massa, buton and hamilton in front of me. I was unable to get to them, they were doing really good laps and suddenly all of them get to the pit for no apparent reason. Great, I said, there is only 3 laps left and Im gonna win. WRONG! On my second lap as first, it starts raining like hell. With one lap left I start feeling the wrong tyres in a heavy rain situation and start slowing down but I was unable to keep the first position.

So, why my pit crew didn't tell me about the rain? Is that normal?

And wow at the handling with the wrong tyres, freaking awesome.


I think I will wait a bit to get the game, until a couple of patches fix a lot of things, but it feels pretty good.
 

Sloane

Banned
NHale said:
Because that doesn't make a difference in the gameplay?
Uh, yes it does because it doesn't really seem to matter how fast you drive. If the guy behind you is supposedly 2s per lap faster and yet the gap always stays the same, it makes quite the difference. And it causes bugs because overtaking someone on track does seem to contradict the games internal "logic" sometimes which leads to wrong results.

NHale said:
EDIT: If the bold is true, how can you explain the race positions that remain more or less the same after everyone making the pitstops even with some AI cars pitting 2 laps before/after?
Not quite sure what you a referring to? Often AI drivers don't stop at all.

I don't really know what we are arguing about anyway. A racing game, especially an F1 racing game, needs a proper and consistent AI, no smoke and mirrors shit. If it was possible in 1995, why isn't it possible in 2010?
 

NHale

Member
TheDrowningMan said:
There are plenty of other issues with the overly robotic AI - always crashing in the same place on courses, sometimes failing to pit at all...and this is also responsible for their failure to adhere to fuel load / tyre wear simulation. Read any interview before hand...the AI was talked up big time...it was going to be organic, it wasn't going to have a hint of rubber about it yet come the game's arrival it's one of the most basic, flawed and simplistic elements. As has been stated, much of this stuff was bread and butter to Geoff Crammond several years ago.

For the record, I do not blame the development team - I have no doubt that they wanted what they talked of but were forced into a very tight frame for release.

You should tell that to EDGE. :lol

Yes, the AI is a lie. Just the fact that it's not being simulated on track removes a lot of immersion and not having a point of reference when you don't have a car in your FOV it's almost like driving blind. Giving false lap times is just adding insult to injury.

What I was saying before is that doesn't make me think less of the gameplay, it's still fun and the AI when in it's in your FOV behaves like it should (I didn't see a lot of AI mistakes btw).

To me the "pit stop bug" and the lack of mechanical failures are a much bigger issue than the false lap times in the HUD. In Grand Prix games you could have punctures, oil leaks, suspension, engine and gearbox failures just like in real F1. In F1 2010 you only have punctures. :lol

One of the Codies said it was because nobody think it's fun to DNF because of a failure they can't control, but if you want to "Live the Life" don't you have to have this type of failures? Didn't Schummy lost a title to Alonso because of a mechanical failure? Remove it from online and give the option to have those in the single player, just like Grand Prix did...

Sloane said:
Uh, yes it does because it doesn't really seem to matter how fast you drive. If the guy behind you is supposedly 2s per lap faster and yet the gap always stays the same, it makes quite the difference. And it causes bugs because overtaking someone on track does seem to contradict the games internal "logic" sometimes which leads to wrong results.

What? Of course it does.

The lap times are a lie the gaps aren't. Ignore the lap times and everything will be ok. Of course in 2010 you should expect lap times for the AI to be correct and split times to be shown in the HUD.

Sloane said:
Not quite sure what you a referring to? Often AI drivers don't stop at all.

I don't really know what we are arguing about anyway. A racing game, especially an F1 racing game, needs a proper and consistent AI, no smoke and mirrors shit. If it was possible in 1995, why isn't it possible in 2010?

Often? PC, PS3 or 360?
 

Lucius86

Banned
So I thought I best post a nice second corner incident I just had...

Made a poor start from 17th on the grid, dropped to 19th entering the first corner. Got a good braking point, snatched those places back, entering turn 2...

10wlif4.jp


Hold on, there's a HRT about to give me a nice little nudge on my left rear. Puncture imcoming!!

I lost control of the rear a bit, and go in tighter than I wanted into turn 2. Why hello there Mr. Torro Rosso....

mj93bl.jpg


Now I am just a passenger.The HRT loses his front wing, and now the Torro Rosso and the Williams have bits of bodywork flying everywhere... 4 cars do not fit into turn 2 that easily, especially with me in there. A nice multi-million pound sandwich.

20friqe.jpg


The Torro Rosso has had enough and makes a break for the skies. The williams only gets a C for effort in comparison...

3zdic.jpg


This is how I imagine Gaf races to be.
 

Stop It

Perfectly able to grasp the inherent value of the fishing game.
cjelly said:
So the CPU cars are just markers ala Sega Rally?

LOL.
Wait, didn't Codemasters pick up Sega Racing Studio (The UK one) in order to help develop F1 2010?

Suddenly this "bug" becomes clear, it was a design choice made by devs who thought that this shit could fly in a F1 game in 2010. Someone should have shown them Geoff Crammond Grand Prix, it managed to have an AI that actually existed all the way back on the Amiga.

In all honesty, this is a complete farce. In Practice/Qualifying you're racing against a script, and in the race you're racing against, well, whatever Codemasters wants you to see. It's all the more frustrating as I like the handling model and the game itself looks fantastic.

Now the game needs a patch urgently, but I can't see this being fixed. This is clearly a lazy, but completely intentional design choice and I think we're all stuck with it.
 

sun-drop

Member
man i regret buying this sight unseen ... this is why i question the quality og game site reviews ... i mean really the simple fact is game reviewer's simply don't have the time to put actual play testing in to most games ... the only real reviews that matter are OT gaf threads it seems.

fuck ... oh well ..hope online mode is decent and un lagged ..
 

TylerD

Member
Guys, don't just give up on the game. Multiplayer is damn good on PC so far. I had a 10 person sprint race on Spa and P1-P10 were separated by 10 seconds. It was very clean minus a couple of shunts at turn 1 on the first lap.

Most of my races, 20+ tonight have been pretty clean.

If gaf wants to race each other and race clean we will have lots and lots of fun with this game. Acrid agrees.

It could be epic...

The SP, other than time trials leaves a lot to be desired but I am loving multiplayer.
 
Wasn't it expressly stated in that youtube Q&A they did shortly before release that the game had genuine AI?

If I'm remembering that right, and that was a flatout lie, my word...
 

1-D_FTW

Member
sun-drop said:
man i regret buying this sight unseen ... this is why i question the quality og game site reviews ... i mean really the simple fact is game reviewer's simply don't have the time to put actual play testing in to most games ... the only real reviews that matter are OT gaf threads it seems.

fuck ... oh well ..hope online mode is decent and un lagged ..

I gotta admit I'm a little resentful of those reviews. I normally don't follow them, but it was getting glowing reviews and then Edge goes and compares it with the greatest F1 games ever made. That coupled with a 39.99 price point and 10 percent pre-order discount got me to purchase sight unseen.

I do like Time Trials. I'll get a decent amount of enjoyment out of just zenfully racing around the tracks. But that's not worth paying launch price for. Was originally going to wait for the two month price drop to 19.99 on Steam. Probably would have waited for the 9.99 Christmas sale had I known. I guess the real question is this: does disabling damage in online just disable physical damage (but still allow bumper car ramming), or does it enable ghost mode. If it's ghost mode, I'll eventually get some worth out of that.
 

GHG

Member
So I said fuck it and bought it full price on steam... I NEVER buy games full price.

What have I done...

Steam is evil. 2 clicks and its bought... WTF is this shit?!?!
 

Dilly

Banned
Wax Free Vanilla said:
:lol at the ai shenanigans

i hope codemasters don't get the 2012 license

Let's see what they make of 2011, the base is pretty solid imo. They have a year to get their stuff together.
 
I've had chance to play about 5 full race weekends in so far, playing on medium "AI" TCS medium, full rules & damage on, and for an illusion i must say it's a pretty nice one. The AI stuff is crazy, I can't wait for code masters official response to all this... Someone fishy I going on though, this season i'm in a lotus with Trulli as my teammate, I'm racing with Trulli visible in front of me, my mechanic tells me. Trulli has gone into the pits, it. Shows Schumacher as my next overtake, Trulli dropping behind, then Trulli pops up as bring in front of me again all the time his car is visible in front of me :lol

The illusion is holding so far thought and I cant wait to complete a season... Pushing yourself in the qali, learning the tracks in practice and being consistant is the challenge for me. Another weird difficulty thing appears to be per track as well, china I came 6th easy, driving well in Catalonia I cant even quality above 16th pushing myself to limit.

From my experience so far, I wouldn't say its a "bad" game, deffo needs a patch, and I cant wait to see codies response (if they even give one) to the AI criticism...
 

Surfheart

Member
Man, the framerate totally blows on some tracks on my q6600. I've spent ages stuffing around with settings mostly because I can't change them in game but have to change them in the paddock, endure the horrible load times to load a race then check performance. I've done this with every farken setting now and scraped ok performance out and then I hit a track like shanghai which is a stutterfest on a lot of the corners.

Replays suck too. Did the developers ever watch an F1 race on tv? The cars also don't completely touch the ground.

The ai debacle is just icing on this shit cake.
 

NHale

Member
Nihilistic Monk said:
From my experience so far, I wouldn't say its a "bad" game, deffo needs a patch, and I cant wait to see codies response (if they even give one) to the AI criticism...

They will probably say the FOM licence doesn't allow correct lap times and the AI to be simulated on the track. :lol
 
Aspiring said:
Anyway how does it perform on PS3. And how does it compare to the amazing F1CE?

performance wise and visually f1 ce is superior.

i still haven't read any comparisons between the handling of both games. apart for the dodgy counter steering in f1 ce the handling model was pretty much spot on for my liking. f1 2010?

somebody give us some g25 feedback - amar?

Dilly said:
Let's see what they make of 2011, the base is pretty solid imo. They have a year to get their stuff together.

wasn't this game delayed a year? but they ship it with all these problems.

i have no confidence in codemasters.
 
When someone soon after launch said that F1 2010 is just a beta for F1 2011 and I kinda agreed, because it's the usual thing with the annual sports games, but who would have thought that it would be that bad.
 
Lucius86 said:
I get 50 FPS with my 4870 and core i5, with 8xaa. You guys must have something wrong with your setups.
Racing games are usually very CPU dependent. I have a 4870 512M and a Q6600 @3.6GHz and I get 35 FPS at the first race.
 
evanylee said:
Goddammit!

After completing a Long Race weekend, 49 laps at bahrain, and 1st in p1 in Melbourne, my damn save data is corrupt.
Did you change your account name or anything after the race? that is suppose to fuck up a save.
 
There's a rather telling quote from Steven Hood from codies in this little post-release interview with eurogamer.

There was certainly a point where we thought, we're never going to get this game out. It was never going to happen. But it did, and I'm really pleased we managed to get it out. And I personally would buy it even if it was just for multiplayer.

F1 2010 - The Final Lap

That last part, in light of all these reported issues seems very, very telling if you ask me.

Another weird thing I've noticed with the game is R&D in practice. Every single session I get a lap time to beat with something like "5% increase in downforce". Go to P2, and you get the same again....does doing one get you the upgrade, or do you get 15% if you do all three? There's no list of these challenges that I can find.

Also, they don't seem to come up at every GP, but after doing some practice, I got told that we'd "accomplished none of our goals today", but there was no R&D time trial available!
 

Smash88

Banned
The A.I. is a joke.

The replays are a joke.

The port to the PC is horrendous. Q6600 @ 3.2GHZ and a GTX470 with everything maxed out and x4aa (playing around with the AA does nothing) gives me barely 30fps.

Some who are having better luck playing this game, are the only lucky ones.

The A.I. don't even have correct lap times just made up. As someone said on the Codemaster forums the A.I. are just a bunch of pylons/obstacle for you to go around.

This is a terrible game, do not buy it.

The only thing it has going for it is the F1 brand, style, whatever, and the shiny graphics. The racing mechanics are also alright, but could be improved upon.
 
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