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[DenchDeckard]

How much do you think rests on ffxvi? I wonder what it needs to sell to reach square expectations...

10 million copies within the first year?

 

[Loomy]

How much do you think rests on ffxvi? I wonder what it needs to sell to reach square expectations...

10 million copies within the first year?

They also have one of the most successful live service games running right now in FF14, so they're not struggling with cash flow. If 16 does well, they will rally behind Yoshida's production philosophy and try to apply that to the other teams. Long term I think Square will be fine. Assuming the NFT dreams remains just that.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

They also have one of the most successful live service games running right now in FF14, so they're not struggling with cash flow. If 16 does well, they will rally behind Yoshida's production philosophy and try to apply that to the other teams. Long term I think Square will be fine. Assuming the NFT dreams remains just that.

This is really what needs to happen if FFXVI is a success - put Yoshida as head of Square and have him greenlight the projects being worked and tone of direction.

I think Square's output lately has been MOSTLY good. Not Capcom consistency, but still pretty great. Having a few larger stinkers like Forespoken really brings it down though. They need to stop releasing that kind of crap. Also need to cut out the boring indie crap like Octopath while they're at it.

Just focus on your big IPs, make them amazing. Simple as that. They also need to bring back and remaster Chrono Trigger legitimately (give it the RE4R or Demons Souls treatment), and then start making new Chrono games.

 

[Gamerfan81]

everything there besides chrono trigger is not nearly as good as fromsofts output from 2011 to 2022

Squaresoft in a matter of 4 years released at least 4 legendary titles in FF6, FF7, Final Fantasy Tactics, and Chrono Trigger. These games generally have universal praise by fans and critics and their status within the industry is hardly up for debate in terms of influence and impact. Maybe the first Souls game and Bloodborne can be considered in that category, but that's still up for debate. Elden Ring is just too new to be properly evaluated.

Is there even a game that Fromsoftware made that's up there with FF 7 in terms of impact? FF7 was a hit with the gaming world and the mainstream media.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Is there even a game that Fromsoftware made that's up there with FF 7 in terms of impact? FF7 was a hit with the gaming world and the mainstream media.

are you serious?

FromSoftware games are one of the most influential games in the last 10+ years.

the "transmedia" thing has change over the years. Twitch, Youtube, online communities etc are part of that "transmedia" equation.

"souls games" exploded in popularity because of that.

 

[ungalo]

All those companies have better net profits than they had 10 years ago. 10 years ago a bad year was when EA was losing money, now people are saying a publisher had a disastrous year and that they will be bought because they only made 100 millions of profit.

 

[Fuz]

This is really what needs to happen if FFXVI is a success - put Yoshida as head of Square and have him

fire nomura.

 

[Gamerfan81]

are you serious?

FromSoftware games are one of the most influential games in the last 10+ years.

the "transmedia" thing has change over the years. Twitch, Youtube, online communities etc are part of that "transmedia" equation.

"souls games" exploded in popularity because of that.

Some influence in the gaming industry, sure. On the level of legendary Squaresoft games like FF7? How about cultural impact? I doubt that. It could be argued that with FF7 and squaresoft games being a Sony exclusive during the PS1 era it made Sony what it is today, in that they wrestle the market away from Nintendo. No Fromsoft game is having that kind of impact or pushing RPGs into the mainstream like FF7 did. Hell, even Hollywood greenlighted a movie because of the success of that game.

 

[64bitmodels]

there even a game that Fromsoftware made that's up there with FF 7 in terms of impact? FF7 was a hit with the gaming world and the mainstream media.

dark souls 1 invented a new genre
FF7 did not
i rest my case

are you serious?

FromSoftware games are one of the most influential games in the last 10+ years.

the "transmedia" thing has change over the years. Twitch, Youtube, online communities etc are part of that "transmedia" equation.

"souls games" exploded in popularity because of that.

rare ChorizoPicozo W

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

dark souls 1 invented a new genre
FF7 did not
i rest my case

rare ChorizoPicozo W

going to my ignore list.

 

[NecrosaroIII]

. He came in and threw a Japanese coat of paint on WoW where we play "simon says" and "the floor is lava" for 20 mins.

You know... I want to dispute this, but I can't. That pretty much sums up ffxiv combat. It's less qbout strategy and more about how precise you can maneuver your characters rotation.

 

[64bitmodels]

It could be argued that with FF7 and squaresoft games being a Sony exclusive during the PS1 era it made Sony what it is today, in that they wrestle the market away from Nintendo. No Fromsoft game is having that kind of impact or pushing RPGs into the mainstream like FF7 did. Hell, even Hollywood greenlighted a movie because of the success of that game.

FF7, a 26 year old game has now just reached 14.1 million copies
Elden Ring which came out just last year just broke 20 million.
FF7 is big yes but not THAT big

 

[SteelCurtain 59]

Taking away the studios they sold away, "failed to meet expectations" has been their slogan for a VERY long time

 

[Gamerfan81]

FF7, a 26 year old game has now just reached 14.1 million copies
Elden Ring which came out just last year just broke 20 million.
FF7 is big yes but not THAT big

The gaming market was smaller back then in '97.

But hey using your logic, Elden Ring has a bigger impact than 1986 Legend of Zelda, only sold 6 million copies. How about GTA 3 released in 2001? That game only sold 14 million overall. By your logic of game sales, Elden Ring has a bigger impact on gaming than the Legend of Zelda and GTA 3.

 

[64bitmodels]

But hey using your logic, Elden Ring has a bigger impact than 1986 Legend of Zelda, only sold 6 million copies. How about GTA 3 released in 2001? That game only sold 14 million overall. By your logic of game sales, Elden Ring has a bigger impact on gaming than the Legend of Zelda and GTA 3

well then how else am i supposed to quantify 'gaming impact'? it's like 'soul', it's a word that doesn't really mean anything.
you're trying to do game popularity dick measuring contests without something to actually measure, it's meaningless

 

[Gamerfan81]

well then how else am i supposed to quantify 'gaming impact'? it's like 'soul', it's a word that doesn't really mean anything.
you're trying to do game popularity dick measuring contests without something to actually measure, it's meaningless

No need to be mad.

Okay, okay you win. Going by game sales. Fromsoft games have a bigger impact on gaming than Legend of Zelda (1986), Super Mario 64 (1996), Wolfenstein 3d (1992), Doom (1993), GTA 3 (2001).

Hell, Hogwart's Legacy has sold more copies than those games. Hogwart's legacy has a bigger impact than those game too, right?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

FF7, a 26 year old game has now just reached 14.1 million copies
Elden Ring which came out just last year just broke 20 million.
FF7 is big yes but not THAT big

Gaming is much bigger now than it was then. FFVII was also limited to one console back in the day whereas Elden Ring was like 5 platforms...

You have to measure the direct impact rather than the unit sales.

FF7 was a killer app that got people to buy PSX instead of N64, it's impact on the market was tremendously larger than anything FromSoftware has done. The impact of people buying the PS1 instead of the N64 changed gaming forever.

Elden Ring might have a huge impact on how people design open world games but that's not quite the same level of impact.

 

[Freeman76]

Stupid decisions have this effect. Their dumbass choices of how restrictive they are with platforms for one.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Gaming is much bigger now than it was then. FFVII was also limited to one console back in the day whereas Elden Ring was like 5 platforms...

You have to measure the direct impact rather than the unit sales.

FF7 was a killer app that got people to buy PSX instead of N64, it's impact on the market was tremendously larger than anything FromSoftware has done. The impact of people buying the PS1 instead of the N64 changed gaming forever.

Elden Ring might have a huge impact on how people design open world games but that's not quite the same level of impact.

but that is not fair at all.

FINAL FANTASY VII.

FF was already an iconic IP. when finally jumped to Play Station was so much significance due to coming to the new "kid in town", change in format (CD) and 3D.


From Software ("soul" games) are far more important and relevant today.


the very own director of FFXVI acknowledges the current state of the FF franchise.

to put it simply; FF has been more bad than good at this point.

 

[64bitmodels]

From Software ("soul" games) are far more important and relevant today.

when you consider the fact that gaming is also exponentially bigger than how it was back then as well, from software is technically far more impactful, they've managed to stay relevant and popular in a market filled with hundreds of millions of gamers whereas Final Fantasy has never hit that sort of mainstream popularity since 1997

this isn't even going onto the fact that FF7 was the ONLY impactful game in the entire Final Fantasy franchise

 

[Azelover]

It started going to shit after the merger. Personally, I think they should get Sakaguchi back. Yes he was responsible for the FF movie fiasco, but that doesnt mean he isn't valuable for the company.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

- Their platform policies are horrible, they alienated the PC and Xbox fanbase, FF VIIR on Steam peaked worse than Persona 4 Golden, it comes to a moment where you are making yourself such a bad image that players are willing to not support it.
- Too much focus on whatever trend they think it will work being extremely late to the party and doing it half assed (Avengers, Babylon's Fall, FF7 The Last Soldier and NFT)
- Unreal expectations on sales and poor management.

At this point FFXIV must be eclipsing their yearly output.

XBOX owners don’t buy and support Japanese games though. That’s the main reason why Japanese developers typically avoid or give XBOX limited support. The statistics and sales prove that each generation and XBOX has procured a fair amount of Japanese games on their platforms.

 

[MagiusNecros]

You know... I want to dispute this, but I can't. That pretty much sums up ffxiv combat. It's less qbout strategy and more about how precise you can maneuver your characters rotation.

Yep just hit your 123 and know where to stand and that's their encounter design. I mean...





The main caveat I've always had with XIV is that Eorzea is so lifeless outside of the main narrative and you are very much on rails while Vanadiel felt like an adventure where you were encouraged to explore and everything had to be earned down to your gear, buying maps. I could lose myself in the ambience of just exploring the world where every play session felt like another chapter in a grand adventure.

 

[pleaseinsertdisctwo]

This is really what needs to happen if FFXVI is a success - put Yoshida as head of Square and have him greenlight the projects being worked and tone of direction.

I think Square's output lately has been MOSTLY good. Not Capcom consistency, but still pretty great. Having a few larger stinkers like Forespoken really brings it down though. They need to stop releasing that kind of crap. Also need to cut out the boring indie crap like Octopath while they're at it.

Just focus on your big IPs, make them amazing. Simple as that. They also need to bring back and remaster Chrono Trigger legitimately (give it the RE4R or Demons Souls treatment), and then start making new Chrono games.

Octopath games sell in the millions lol so you don’t know what you’re talking about. It’s easy money for SE

 

[Dane]

XBOX owners don’t buy and support Japanese games though. That’s the main reason why Japanese developers typically avoid or give XBOX limited support. The statistics and sales prove that each generation and XBOX has procured a fair amount of Japanese games on their platforms.

Capcom, Bandai Namco and Sega prove otherwise, the truth is that most of the japanese AAA effort that Microsoft tought it would be hit in the west flopped hard during the Xbox 360 and Square Enix was a major factor in that, why expect players to buy subpar games when they can buy something else?

 

[ungalo]

XBOX owners don’t buy and support Japanese games though. That’s the main reason why Japanese developers typically avoid or give XBOX limited support. The statistics and sales prove that each generation and XBOX has procured a fair amount of Japanese games on their platforms.

A main FF would still be million seller on Xbox like FF15 was. For low budget titles that's understandable (although it shows a lack of ambition to conquer new public in itself), but for big budget titles easy money from Sony's partnership limits a potential big blowup on launch i feel. Like what happened with Elden Ring for example, nothing is written in stone, the game did well on Xbox, it always increases the potential mouth to ear.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Square Enix were legends in the JRPG genre and now they're starting to look like fools. To me the remasters on Steam are the only thing worth checking out, I mean is anybody actually anticipating the next Final Fantasy instalment?

Why the hell havnt they brought these FF Pixel remasters to consoles?

 

[Lethal01]

from different perspective, i applaud him to take a plunge, do what probably other Square Enix developers probably wont do that time. he take the step to look at other game, and even take it further. rather than just being stubborn to risk insist to innovate or create things by themself while believing they still be the one stand on top that time as the one that creating the trend despite thats not case anymore. sure, FF14 might not innovate any new stuff but but it is a prove that the company and franchise would gain lot of things if they look around and learn from other competitors in industry.

he did mention this in interview.




for years we can see Square Enix is somehow like still searching for right 'formula' to drive the franchise infuture despite there is lot of other example from other successfull game or developers they can take note from. Zelda BOTW is a good example. it didnt create new or innovate things much but it is very well done. it is how Nintendo learn and take inspiration from various game or developers out there and right now, other developers is the one started take turn to draw inspiration from them back. Hironobu Sakaguchi also the same when he create The Last Story. even veteran legendary developers like him also end up sit back and rethink whole things while take note of how other developers did with their games. i remember few years ago there is a thread(forgot where) that fans suggesting final fantasy to follow Xenoblade Chronicles linear in big open area structure. imagine the possiblities if the company didnt restricted themself in searching for piece of right solution.

even FF16 we probably can see lot of inspiration from GoW and other various well known, successfull game out there. if the solution is out there then it is a waste if they didnt grab it.

For me ff7 remake is by far the best thing Square has made and is a clear result of decades of "searching" honestly I'll agree it may not be the best buisiness solution, but what's come out of them searching is far more exciting to me than the stuff they make while copying a ton from other companies.

It's probably the reason I got near zero interest in 16, I love DMC and GoW is great but for FF this just seems like a giant leap backwards from FF7 Remake.

remake is just one example, in general their unique games are what get me interested.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

I love reading all this Yoshi P hate. I thought I was the only one.

I too am worried about FF16 after watching the recent gameplay footage. The Summon battles look laughably simplistic. "Press square" quick time event where you have 15 seconds to press it, watch several minutes of a cutscene followed by another "press square"

 

[lh032]

Careful, I've had posts deleted for saying similar things...

thanks, i deleted my post, didnt know sarcasm is not allowed lol

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Capcom, Bandai Namco and Sega prove otherwise, the truth is that most of the japanese AAA effort that Microsoft tought it would be hit in the west flopped hard during the Xbox 360 and Square Enix was a major factor in that, why expect players to buy subpar games when they can buy something else?

My memory might be foggy, but I don’t remember too many subpar Japanese games from those companies on XBOX and even the good games usually didn’t sell too well. The sales for Japanese games in general always heavily favored PlayStation and that is a huge contributing factor as to why PlayStation gets so many Japanese exclusives.

The demographic for those games is just much smaller on XBOX unfortunately. I don’t think XBOX gamers skip those games because of bad experiences from Square Enix or other companies, but because those type of games just don’t appeal to the majority of them.

 

[Punished Miku]

My memory might be foggy, but I don’t remember too many subpar Japanese games from those companies on XBOX and even the good games usually didn’t sell too well. The sales for Japanese games in general always heavily favored PlayStation and that is a huge contributing factor as to why PlayStation gets so many Japanese exclusives.

The demographic for those games is just much smaller on XBOX unfortunately. I don’t think XBOX gamers skip those games because of bad experiences from Square Enix or other companies, but because those type of games just don’t appeal to the majority of them.

Infinite Undiscovery, The Last Remnant, some FROM JRPG I forget. Off the top of my head.

 

[crazy monkey]

Make smaller gameplay focused games. Simple standard graphics.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Infinite Undiscovery, The Last Remnant, some FROM JRPG I forget. Off the top of my head.

I see. I actually liked those JRPG’s on XBOX lol. I know Last Remnant had issues, but I thought most of those games were considered good by most. I could be totally wrong though.

 

[Punished Miku]

I see. I actually liked those JRPG’s on XBOX lol. I know Last Remnant had issues, but I thought most of those games were considered good by most. I could be totally wrong though.

I liked The Last Remnant, not so much the others

 

[Shifty1897]

Square would never understand this but their problem in 2022 was GROSSLY oversaturating the market. They released like 15 games that I wanted to buy last year, but I am an adult with priorities, so I bought 3 of their games at release. They should have spaced out those titles more.

 

[lyan]

You know... I want to dispute this, but I can't. That pretty much sums up ffxiv combat. It's less qbout strategy and more about how precise you can maneuver your characters rotation.

Well most games would look similarly stupid if we put things that way, like all the Fromsoft games are just pure QTE combat without the UI prompt.

when you consider the fact that gaming is also exponentially bigger than how it was back then as well, from software is technically far more impactful, they've managed to stay relevant and popular in a market filled with hundreds of millions of gamers whereas Final Fantasy has never hit that sort of mainstream popularity since 1997

this isn't even going onto the fact that FF7 was the ONLY impactful game in the entire Final Fantasy franchise

By this logic SE is far more impactful with FFXIV.

 

[OuterLimits]

They are essentially a B-tier Sony first party anyways. Might as well make it official.

Many of their AA games were multiplatform or even just Switch/PC. While they didn't have the 100 million dollar budget of the Sony exclusive Forspoken, quite a few were much better games.

The problem was Square decided to release many of them during about a 3 month time period with little marketing. So Tactics Ogre and DioField were essentially competing against each other. Triangle Strategy that released earlier in the year had some marketing by Nintendo and sold better than the many Square titles dropped in Oct-Dec.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Gaming is much bigger now than it was then. FFVII was also limited to one console back in the day whereas Elden Ring was like 5 platforms...

You have to measure the direct impact rather than the unit sales.

FF7 was a killer app that got people to buy PSX instead of N64, it's impact on the market was tremendously larger than anything FromSoftware has done. The impact of people buying the PS1 instead of the N64 changed gaming forever.

Elden Ring might have a huge impact on how people design open world games but that's not quite the same level of impact.

Do we have sales numbers for ffvii remake and integrade? That must have cost a small fortune to make.

I would imagine if ffvii was so popular that will have sold 20 millions copies across PC, ps4 and ps5?

 

[OuterLimits]

They also have one of the most successful live service games running right now in FF14, so they're not struggling with cash flow. If 16 does well, they will rally behind Yoshida's production philosophy and try to apply that to the other teams. Long term I think Square will be fine. Assuming the NFT dreams remains just that.

While they talk about NFT stuff at times, their current(but soon leaving CEO) only committed 30 million to that effort. Granted, that is 30 million too much, but spending 100 million on Forspoken is likely a costlier blunder.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Do we have sales numbers for ffvii remake and integrade? That must have cost a small fortune to make.

I would imagine if ffvii was so popular that will have sold 20 millions copies across PC, ps4 and ps5?

First, the FF7 remake isn't a faithful remake, second, it's about 1/6th of the overall story of the game, third, while it got a ps5 upgrade it didn't get nearly the advertising for it that the game got when it was initially released.

• FF7 on PS1 has a metacritic review score of a 92 with a user review score of an 8.9
• FF7 Remake has a metacritic review score of an 87 with a user review score of an 8.1

MAYBE if this was a whole game rather than basically just a demo with a bunch of filler and pointless side quests it would have sold better, but the silliness of comparing FF7 remake to FF7, two entirely different games... no one is arguing here that FF7 Remake had the impact of FF7.

 

[Chukhopops]

Square would never understand this but their problem in 2022 was GROSSLY oversaturating the market. They released like 15 games that I wanted to buy last year, but I am an adult with priorities, so I bought 3 of their games at release. They should have spaced out those titles more.

That’s really the core of the issue. They should have delayed half of their 2022 games since most of their AA output is actually quite good (Star Ocean, Stranger of Paradise, even remasters like Tactics Ogre).

I dislike their AAA output but aside from that they’re not doing too bad those days.

 

[kyussman]

They should probably just lower their expectations then I guess.

 

[wvnative]

I too am worried about FF16 after watching the recent gameplay footage. The Summon battles look laughably simplistic. "Press square" quick time event where you have 15 seconds to press it, watch several minutes of a cutscene followed by another "press square"

In fairness, they admitted that the summon battles were designed to act as spectacle as a reward after a normal boss.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

Do we have sales numbers for ffvii remake and integrade? That must have cost a small fortune to make.

I would imagine if ffvii was so popular that will have sold 20 millions copies across PC, ps4 and ps5?

IIRC it sold 5 million in the first month of release but fell off a cliff after that. PC version sold very poorly. It was enough to get Square to greenlight Part 2.

I do expect them to release FF7R on Switch 2, and I think it has a good chance of doing ok.

 

[Magusx]

It's so weird. They have gold with the FF franchise. I'm a big fan. I would pay hundred of dollars for them or maybe in the thousand. But they just make dumb decisions. They don't want money from me I guess. I was so extremely hyped for forspoken but I didn't buy it. If Square can't even sell me this game.... then you know they are fucking up hard. For me good story and cool characters is important.I love JRPGs but forspoken also doesn't feel like JRPG at all.

I loved FFVII remake and looking forward to part 2 and FFXVI

 

[Lunarorbit]

Reminds me of embracer group light.

Square has just taken a scatter shot approach to their game releases and it shows.

They are stuck in this crappy semi realistic anime style so all their recent games look exactly the same to me.

Diofield chronicles. Valkyrie elysium. Forspoken. Kingdom hearts.

As a lapsed square fan why are you pumping out the same game over and over? This weird shitty DMC rip off aesthetic. I thought code vein was a square game cause of the style.

Not saying all these games are bad. Just saying they all look the same and have action rpg elements. It's boring.

It's the same position that companies put themselves in when Anthem comes out and sucks but 5 other companies decide to release a crappy destiny clone just like anthem.

 

[Lunarorbit]

Square would never understand this but their problem in 2022 was GROSSLY oversaturating the market. They released like 15 games that I wanted to buy last year, but I am an adult with priorities, so I bought 3 of their games at release. They should have spaced out those titles more.

2 articles highlighting the stupidity of game companies. Titanfall 2 got sent to its death as it got released by ea next to battlefield 1 and cod.

https://www.videogamer.com/news/ea-...-and-titanfall-2-wont-cannibalize-each-other/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/insert...y-helped-trample-titanfall-2/?sh=21847ace6f87

 

[Zekra Dezivad]

What would be the point of Sony acquiring square enix when their games are either already exclusive to PS or sell mostly on PS anyway. The audience is already there on sonys platform. They would only do it as a defensive move if there was a threat of Microsoft getting them, but there is no chance of that happening imo.

Well, it's pretty naive to think that companies care only about selling the game product. IPs, know how and strategy are way more valuable than the sales of games.
Actually Sony may have a lot of interests in acquiring SE assets as they would be a huge addition and consolidation to Sony's portfolio of anime/manga offering. SE also is the japanese company with the most successful long term game service know how. There are plenty of reasons. However this doesn't mean they SE will be acquired or that the want to be acquired in the first place. Japanese companies value indipendence.

 

[Gamer79]

Square has failed to innovate and got greedy. They are not what they once were. Japanese games in general are stuck in the past.