Type-Moon outsourcing to KyoAni for Heaven's Feel route confirmed. If only this show came out a year later, we could have had two chef Sakuras on the air at the same time.
Well at least the KyoAni Sakura won't float badly over a CG background.
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Fall 2013 Anime |OT2| The Rise and Fall of Kyoto
- Thread starter hosannainexcelsis
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Well at least the KyoAni Sakura won't float badly over a CG background.
dakkumauji
Member
Kyoukai no Kanata 07
I still enjoy the comedic moments. The action is still very pretty.
But drama still usually falls flat with KyoAni shows and this is no exception. Should have kept Sakura in that cupboard.
I still enjoy the comedic moments. The action is still very pretty.
But drama still usually falls flat with KyoAni shows and this is no exception. Should have kept Sakura in that cupboard.
Yeah, it'll just have a bunch of amaaaaaaaaaazing looking first person CG background motions. KyoAni!!! <3
firehawk12
Subete no aware
South Park did a Console War episode and their version of Sony announced a new plan to win the war:
I always like how cartooney their version of Japan can be. lol
I always like how cartooney their version of Japan can be. lol
Lee Chaolan
Member
South Park is too good. The old Wii episode they had was great with Cartman in the future.
Now, back to more Otoshimono
Now, back to more Otoshimono
Vincent Alexander
Member
Fate/Zero - All Done
So, my friend and I finished our 3-day marathon. While there were good aspects, we left the show overall disappointed. I'll do my best to ramble with some tinge of coherence. I'll try my best to mark what I consider to be spoilers. I know this is going to be a lot, but I really do appreciate those who will take the time to read and give feedback. My friend didn't discuss back, other than "that was cool" or "Yeah, I didn't like that".
I loved Alexander the Great and Waver. In fact, I would have much preferred a show with them as the main characters. They worked well together from a character perspective. Their back-and-forth yielded some of the most interesting, and more important, most touching moments of Fate/Zero. It's a complete shame we didn't get a history episode on Waver. I'm very curious his life before the show takes place and feel it would've been time better spent than time spent on the episode of Rin trying to rescue her friend.
I was extremely disappointed by Kiritsugu and Arthur. There was a ton of potential for them, not only as individuals but with their interactions. Their ideals completely clashed with each other, but this lead to no great conversation/debate/whatever between the two.
She used "harsh" words with Kiritsugu, but they still weren’t' very powerful or moving. For her and Lancer to be so strong in their chivalry, it is mind blowing that this moment didn't absolutely destroy their relationship. I don't know if dialogue needed fixed here, or whether there needed to be more action. Perhaps she should've taken up her sword in a threat against Kiritsugu, even if to only pull back and decide against. As for Kiritsugu, his back story let me down. A lot. I thought to myself, "This is it! This is where he makes sense". But after 2 episodes, I didn't understand him much more. I still felt like he was a piece of shit for how he dealt with Archibald, except they added Natalia on the list. And don't get me started on how we see Natalia
It's as if the writers want to force us to be fine with what just happened, in that sort of "Don't judge him" sort-of-way. Like "Don't hate him! He was saving people. And she was totally fine with it!" I don't care if she smiles. I wasn't sold on the decision, and I disliked Kiritsugu even more. It isn't all bad though....Kiritsugu had a redeeming moment later.
Dayum. It was probably the best moment in the show, and helped clarify him so I wasn't left to conjecture his views on life/killing. I still don't like
, I think that is more of an issue with the setup. Their relationship wasn't solidified in any meaningful way. As well, it was far too predictable what was about to happen, and thus didn't leave me shell-shocked.
Without a doubt, my favorite episode that I absolutely loved was Episode 11---A Grail Dialogue. The discussion between Alexander, Gilgamesh and Arthur as to what a King is or how a King should act was vastly entertaining and gives the brain something to ponder. It helped cement my love for Alexander, while having the opposite effect for Arthur. I had nothing against her view, but was letdown at how poorly she defended herself. She let Alexander walk all over her in the discussion, hardly offering any real pushback. This goes in line with her overall personality though. At times, she is far too timid and passive, and kinda takes it on the chin in this episode.
Kirei Kotomine. Terrible. I have never felt so little one way or the other for a villain. And the most infuriating thing about Fate/Zero is how obvious they make it that Kirei is going to be the main villain to survive until the end. I'm sure if one had watched Fate Stay Night it would've been even more obvious, so I'm sure they didn't bother to hide it here. But come on. Not a single thing this man does is surprising in the entire show. And he does it all with so little emotion that I can't help but feel like I'm watching a sock puppet on the screen. Dull, dull, dull.
CG. I have never seen such extremes between drop dead gorgeous and fuck ugly. When the CG is used for scenery, or minor added details, it is enough to drool at in it's beauty. But things like Gilgamesh's ship and Berserker were almost unbearable to watch. It's a real shame, as Berserker was (in concept) amazing. But when he showed up for the first time, he was so out of place. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. It's unfortunate for an action show that almost no action scene impressed me. The only truly enjoyable one was the very first fight between Lancer and Saber. Why were the others not that great? I honestly think because of too much CG.
Emotion. On paper, this show had a lot of sad, sad moments. But they didn't touch me.
I re-watched a few moments to try and figure out what elements were the most off, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Was it bad directing? Poor choice of framing? Music choice? Terrible setups (too quick, too slow)? I don't know.
I think that's all I have to ramble on right now. Again, I really do appreciate those who have seen Fate/Zero, take the time to read this and reply back with some thoughts.
So, my friend and I finished our 3-day marathon. While there were good aspects, we left the show overall disappointed. I'll do my best to ramble with some tinge of coherence. I'll try my best to mark what I consider to be spoilers. I know this is going to be a lot, but I really do appreciate those who will take the time to read and give feedback. My friend didn't discuss back, other than "that was cool" or "Yeah, I didn't like that".
I loved Alexander the Great and Waver. In fact, I would have much preferred a show with them as the main characters. They worked well together from a character perspective. Their back-and-forth yielded some of the most interesting, and more important, most touching moments of Fate/Zero. It's a complete shame we didn't get a history episode on Waver. I'm very curious his life before the show takes place and feel it would've been time better spent than time spent on the episode of Rin trying to rescue her friend.
I was extremely disappointed by Kiritsugu and Arthur. There was a ton of potential for them, not only as individuals but with their interactions. Their ideals completely clashed with each other, but this lead to no great conversation/debate/whatever between the two.
I was very letdown that after Kiritsugu had Lancer kill himself, there wasn't more of a pushback by Arthur.
smile as the flames from the explosion engulf the plane.
Inside the grail when he blows Ilya's brains out and chokes the life from Irisviel, while telling her "Six billion people against two of my family members. I'll kill you and save the world."
him killing Natalia
Without a doubt, my favorite episode that I absolutely loved was Episode 11---A Grail Dialogue. The discussion between Alexander, Gilgamesh and Arthur as to what a King is or how a King should act was vastly entertaining and gives the brain something to ponder. It helped cement my love for Alexander, while having the opposite effect for Arthur. I had nothing against her view, but was letdown at how poorly she defended herself. She let Alexander walk all over her in the discussion, hardly offering any real pushback. This goes in line with her overall personality though. At times, she is far too timid and passive, and kinda takes it on the chin in this episode.
Kirei Kotomine. Terrible. I have never felt so little one way or the other for a villain. And the most infuriating thing about Fate/Zero is how obvious they make it that Kirei is going to be the main villain to survive until the end. I'm sure if one had watched Fate Stay Night it would've been even more obvious, so I'm sure they didn't bother to hide it here. But come on. Not a single thing this man does is surprising in the entire show. And he does it all with so little emotion that I can't help but feel like I'm watching a sock puppet on the screen. Dull, dull, dull.
CG. I have never seen such extremes between drop dead gorgeous and fuck ugly. When the CG is used for scenery, or minor added details, it is enough to drool at in it's beauty. But things like Gilgamesh's ship and Berserker were almost unbearable to watch. It's a real shame, as Berserker was (in concept) amazing. But when he showed up for the first time, he was so out of place. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. It's unfortunate for an action show that almost no action scene impressed me. The only truly enjoyable one was the very first fight between Lancer and Saber. Why were the others not that great? I honestly think because of too much CG.
Emotion. On paper, this show had a lot of sad, sad moments. But they didn't touch me.
Lancer killing himself. Kiritsugu shooting down Natalia. Kariya overall being a sad, pathetic mess.
I think that's all I have to ramble on right now. Again, I really do appreciate those who have seen Fate/Zero, take the time to read this and reply back with some thoughts.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Flydayoo!
Kirei and Saber both suffer from being in a prequel work. Saber more than the rest as she sort of stays the course so she can do her thing in Fate/Stay night (that thing being laundry) while all the really great characters are blank slates that can be developed properly.
Personally loved Kirei though as he slowly emerges from his shell and how Gilgamesh draws that out.
Natalia/Kiritisugu setup goes back to the first episode where they establish him as utterly ruthless due to shit like shooting down a plane for one target. Then you have the building demolition that would further support this. Stuff you were talking about disliking was in 18/19/whatever and it's not so much a case of "don't judge him" but "judge him after you understand why he does what he does." The whole sacrificing a few to save many thing consumes the poor guy.
Crash Station
Member
Araki has definitely improved since then, but he still crams way too much into any given panel, and his distinctive art style can still make it hard to decipher what the hell is going on in any given fight scene.
I still love it, though, and would take the manga of Stardust Crusaders over the OVA.
Lee Chaolan
Member
Yeah, the way I see Kiri is
that, despite being polar opposites in ideology, he's not that different than Saber. They both justify pretty much everything they do with their worldview, in Kiri's case the goods of the many outweigh the few. In both cases, when their worldview is shattered, it starts to tear them apart. Whiiich comes to a head when his entire philosophy is completely brutalized at the end of the series.
Same thing with Natalia, I really didn't see that as that sympathetic of a moment. Rather, it's when his worldview was solidified. When he didn't stop what'sherface (Ashley? Was that it?) his whole village was destroyed. He can't let that happen again, so he kills Natalia even if there may have been a chance of survival. And that's pretty much how he acts going forward. He has this ideal of saving the world, but he'll pretty much go to any means to do it, as long as he can comfort himself with the knowledge that he'll save more people than he kills.
Same thing with Natalia, I really didn't see that as that sympathetic of a moment. Rather, it's when his worldview was solidified. When he didn't stop what'sherface (Ashley? Was that it?) his whole village was destroyed. He can't let that happen again, so he kills Natalia even if there may have been a chance of survival. And that's pretty much how he acts going forward. He has this ideal of saving the world, but he'll pretty much go to any means to do it, as long as he can comfort himself with the knowledge that he'll save more people than he kills.
Kirei I found a pretty interesting villain, but that's probably personal taste. I like the way he started as an "empty" person and was "filled" with meaning. Gilgamesh is such an overpowered asshole tho.
Oh also:
Yamato 2199 12
This show is getting better and better! Interesting political stuff in the first half
all is not well in the empiyah
Is adulthood even harsh for Pokemon Trainers? I mean look at Giovanni! His job is basically to do exactly what he has been doing since, by law, he was approximately 10. And as a side job he just does what he likes to do some more.
Honestly how anyone is surprised that a man who grew up in a world where 10 year olds are sent out into the wilds to raise themselves turned out to be a self-centered criminal is beyond me.
lol, i never thought of it that way
dakkumauji
Member
Ookiku Furikabutte - The Summer Tournament Chapter 07
Seeing Mihashi and Abe interact with their parents was really interesting.
It was also amazing that they finished a game in one whole episode. By skipping all of it.
Seeing Mihashi and Abe interact with their parents was really interesting.
It was also amazing that they finished a game in one whole episode. By skipping all of it.
KirbYuuYuu
Member
Pokemon Red/Blue still the darkest story confirmed.
Vincent Alexander
Member
I was afraid not seeing Fate Stay Night might hinder some elements. I think Kiri would've made more sense to me earlier
if he didn't evacuate the building before he blew it up to try and kill Archibald.
As far as he is concerned, killing the innocents would've been outweighed by the killing of Archibald, as it would lead to his eventual winning of the grail. His end always justify the means.
I really disagree with a lot of this.
I'll start for with Kiritsugu. He didn't have a relationship with Saber, or anything approaching normal. He viewed her as a tool, clear and simple, from the beginning to the end. The way his mind works is that he was a true pragmatist. He would use a tool till it broke and throw it out without hesistation.
Hell I don't think he gave a shit when Maiya died.
Kirei had the best character development on the show. None of his development is supposed to be surprising. He does seriously fuck some people over though and hard. That church scene was him at his best.
Berserker was supposed to stand out. If he had just looked like a normal knight in 2D then it wouldn't have portrayed the shroud hiding his identity as well. He's not normal on a lot of levels and the decision to make him CGI was the right one.
Oh and Lancer
killing himself was full of pure emotion
No, Its doesn't work that way.. Its will contradict how Kiritsugu always choose method that have fewest victim as possible.
Actually, I think I remembering him showing some cracks in his facade at this point, showing a bit of actual care for her. Might be confusing it with other stuff though.
If it was, it was for like a few seconds and then she's promptly forgotten about.
Kirei and Kiritsugu are the best characters by far in Fate/Zero. Rider is the most likable but Kiri and Kirei both have the most meat to them.
I recall thinking he gave more of a shit about Maya than he did about Irisviel when I first watched it. I mean, later we find out that isn't the case but early on it feels like he's using Irisviel as a tool (decoy in this case) as he did Saber.
Admiral Woofington
Member
He's always good enough to beat his rival in the final fight but never good enough to win shit unless we count that orange island league or w/e it was called, but notice how this is never mentioned ever again because it's a low achievement. How come Red and the other protags can do it in one game and capture legendaries. He can't even evolve his Pikachu or Bulbasaur because feelings. The Pikachu one is bullshit, he doesn't want to evolve so they can both prove strength comes from friendship and working hard. Guess what mate, your Pikachu is getting weaker and beaten by relatively low quality pokemon. Evolve him already, do ANYTHING different so it feels fresh.
Speaking of the Fate world, I wish there were more concrete details on the FSN project coming up. I love Ufotable and all, but I don't know if they can strike gold again with another Fate project due to the issue that FSN is basically a shonen where FZ was a seinen. Shiro is a horribly boring stereotypical protagonist and his only role was as a blank slate for people playing the VN. Even if they choose Heaven's Feel, unless they rewrite his whole character to be less Naruto and make the heroes better I don't know if it'll be as great. Compared to the heroes of FZ, the FSN ones seem like very basic in design.
Well he was sleeping with her. Something that isn't even implied when Kiri is in Japan with Irisviel. Like other than Ilya being born, you couldn't tell that Iri and Kiri had a sexual relationship at all.
Growing up just means becoming an NPC in someone else's quest.
Yeah, I found Kiri in particular to be one of the more interesting anti-heroes I've seen.
Word.
Dude they were having an affair. I think Iri knew about it, but they were definitely having sex.
Well I mean think about it. Assuming the Pokemon world has not undergone a radical change since Professor Oak was a trainer back when he and Agatha were young, Giovanni left home at 10 like every other kid in Kanto, got his Pokemon, and traveled across the country where he learned some valuable life lessons: namely that if you lose, your friends will be in terrible pain and you will owe the other kid money. You will not have proven yourself to be a man unless you can defeat eccentric and vicious adversaries who are also government sanctioned officials. And of course, as much as the Pokemon series would love to dress this up some other way: Might makes Right.
So a child like this grows up in this world, and also according to Lt. Surge there was a war in which Pokemon participated, so Giovanni has also seen a war in which these creatures that the series tells us are supposed to be our friends and companions who will help us see the world are forced to fight others to the death. Possibly Pokemon were the exclusive weapon in the war. Let me just point out that seeing that kind of stuff leads Nobunaga in Pokemon Conquest to decide the world should be destroyed and God killed.
And so this man begins to build an organization hell-bent on gaining money, obtaining a pokeball that will let them catch all the pokemon in the world, and being the very best.
Giovanni and Team Rocket, the ostensible villains of Pokemon Red and Blue have the exact goals the player character has. They're just adults doing what a child does, because the world has taught them since they were 10 that this is how things are meant to be.
Well yeah, I mean do we just ignore that "Kind" old Mr. Fuji took the newborn son of Mew and recombined his genetic material repeatedly? There's a reason Mewtwo is pissed off and living in a dark cave. There's a reason Cinnabar mansion is charred rubble. There's a reason Mr. Fuji spends his every waking hour in penance to Pokemon.
And every single Pokedex entry for Mewtwo knows why.
Your goal in Pokemon, Professor Oak's reason for sending you out to catch 'em all is in fact to collect evidence to prove Fuji's guilt in creating and torturing a Pokemon so powerful he poses a direct threat to all of Kanto. I mean Fuji made a God stronger, smarter, and angrier.
And you now think about why Agatha is really angry with Professor Oak. It isn't just because he ditched her at the altar or gave up training Pokemon, its because the old man is collecting evidence that the Pokemon League is covering up the fact that Gym Leader Blaine is complicit in those horrific experiments. (The old codger doesn't exactly hide his friendship with Fuji, putting a picture of the two of them on display in his gym and all.) Sure some of them, like Lance, might not know all the details, but do you really think that Team Rocket's boss being a Gym Leader goes unnoticed?
And of course, Professor Oak's gambit must have failed, which is why, 5 years later, Ethan finds Red sitting on top of Mount Silver, facing the Indigo Plateau.
A viable alternative answer for why Red is on top of that mountain.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Can you elaborate? It seemed to me like maybe not she wasn't his lover but
she was his apprentice and they have slept together at one point or the other. Iri definitely knew but accepted that of Kiritsugu since she loved him and both of them knew what would need to happen at the end of this. Kiritsugu cared about Maya but he seemed to genuinely have loved Iri and his semi-family, as can be seen during the scene with the grail. Like I said we need to remember the whole marriage and agreement was set-up and not normal so we can't expect perfect lovey dovey situations
My friends and I absolutely loved CG berserker because he stood out and the animation was more than decent enough. Unlike Berserk movie 1.
Which is both a curse and a blessing as it made the Fate franchise better, but everybody who loved FZ and goes on to FSN will be disappointed at what a boring character Shiro is.
Jesus Christ! That show needs to be put down
Or at least get a new protagonist. You can even let an older Ash guest star from time to time or let him take the Mentor role like Brock did of seasons past.
This makes me want to see Urobuchi get his hands on Pokemon.
Type/moon wiki sources a F/Z encyclopedia for the following:
Also, to Kiritsugu, allowing his wife to sacrifice herself and complete the Grail is a betrayal towards her love, no matter what others say. However, it is necessary that he does not hesitate in this betrayal. To Kiritsugu, his sexual relationship with Maiya is a rehearsal before this betrayal, a form of self-abuse to steel his nerves while walking down this path. This is probably the sorriest excuse to have an affair, but Maiya treasured every second of it. It is essentially a negative spiral downward without an end.
Was curious after Jarmel mentioned it because the show heavily implied something but never really explored past it. I think that gels well with Kiritsugu's characterization and ties into Maya's hero worship of him well enough. As far as Iri knowing, I doubt she really gave a shit as she seemed aware of what her role was to be.
Vincent Alexander
Member
Oh my God...girlfriend threw pants on my wireless keyboard in corner while I'm in the middle of replying....EDIT!
Admiral Woofington
Member
Huh. That actually makes sense. It is a bad excuse, in fact a horrible one, but then again the way his mind works and the choices he makes definitely would make it a necessity to complete his mission. Damn what a great character.
Well, their shit is awkward to explain for sure.. But I see it similar to when Emiya working under Natalia, they're not fuckbuddie.. argh I can't explain it well.
Corvo, why the fuck aren't you writing Pokemon instead of whatever hack is doing it right now?
I would just be happy if they took the tone of the manga.
Knocked out has a new meaning apparently.
Kiri and Natalia's relationship was more of a mother son one. They even aired the 2nd flashback on Mother's day.
I know that wasn't intentional.
KirbYuuYuu
Member
Well I'm glad I didn't read a self insert fanfic or something. Or Gardevoir fucking.
Because the first thing I would do would be shove a dang thunderstone down Pikachu's throat and puberty down Ash's.
The next thing I'd do is forget whatever stupid story line we're in and move the show directly to Ransei and then Orre.
Also I would pander to Charizard and Mewtwo, and you better believe post-puberty Gary would be depressing as hell. Because unlike Ash, Gary has to get a real job and run Viridian gym. And by real job I mean he'll be trapped in a soulless marriage to a Nurse Joy, and Brock will be on the run from the law for reasons which are obvious.
The airing dates for Fate/Zero are the best thing about it. Confirmed that God approves of Fate/Zero. The Rider episode is so perfect with its airdate. Like so perfect.
What's the deal with Nurse Joys anyway? Are they all sisters? A hive mind? Do you give up your former identity when you become one?
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