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Fall Anime 2014 lOTl Unlimited Tomino Works

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They do kind of explain how Saber passes as a dude, I think.
a wizard used magic to make her look like a dude
or something like that. Not trying to defend the perfect blonde virgin devoted waifu as a character, though.
 

Midonin

Member
Happiness Charge Precure! 43

Sweet catharsis.
I don't even mind the overly long Innocent Harmony encore performance. After the drawn-out battle that was this episode, it felt earned. Megumi finally confessed her love, and told Mirage to not destroy the world over a bad breakup. Some really nice uses of silence and fights this episode. Seeing Megumi pull out her sword will always be amazing.

So there are still Red Saiarks out there, but I don't know how/if the final episodes will be able to top the sheer catharsis this episode provided.
 

Andrew J.

Member
Fate/Zero 11

To emphasize his point, he shows her that any King worth his salt has friends and doesn't whine like a bitch about being alone, pulls out his red materia, summons Knights of the Round, and beats the shit out of the Ass Creed Player's Convention just to prove his point. All this in the middle of a fucking drinking contest him and Gilgamesh are having while she sits there and mopes.

You notice how Archer didn't give a shit the whole time he was doing that?
 
HappinessCharge Precure 43

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In which Toei makes up for last weeks rather horrible episode, using rather stellar lighting and effects to give us a showdown between Lovely and Mirage. What with several instances of characters getting BTFO and using the power of hugs and love, proves to be rather entertaining
and shows another possibility of the 3 generals never coming back
.

There was some things I found a bit odd, what with there being water and boats up in here. I don't know how it got there to begin with. BUT, what HapCha has done with this episode has done what DokiDoki Precure failed to do.


It finally fucking happened. Cure Honey > Mana confirmed. She did what Mana failed to do despite being a harem protagonist in a Precure show. I knew I picked the right Cure.

And next week looks to be amazing as well, because there's BUDGET and NEW HAIRDO


Thanks for making up for last weeks shit episode, yet again
 

Clov

Member
Corvo's complaints about Saber remind me of my friend's complaints about Red Saber in Fate/Extra. He's all about historical accuracy, so he's especially upset about her true identity. Oddly enough he's fine with regular Saber. I guess some people are more tolerant of that stuff than others.
 

fertygo

Member
Corvo's complaints about Saber remind me of my friend's complaints about Red Saber in Fate/Extra. He's all about historical accuracy, so he's especially upset about her true identity. Oddly enough he's fine with regular Saber. I guess some people are more tolerant of that stuff than others.

Do he also complain about lack of feather in Jurassic Park
 

CorvoSol

Member
They do kind of explain how Saber passes as a dude, I think.
a wizard used magic to make her look like a dude
or something like that. Not trying to defend the perfect blonde virgin devoted waifu as a character, though.

BRB personally destroying Britain myself.

You notice how Archer didn't give a shit the whole time he was doing that?

Archer didn't give a shit because he is high as fuck all of the time. All of that went down and Archer's only thought was "Got damn it's been a few thousand years since I banged a chick." He definitely didn't have any more respect for Saber's Kingship than Rider did.

Corvo's complaints about Saber remind me of my friend's complaints about Red Saber in Fate/Extra. He's all about historical accuracy, so he's especially upset about her true identity. Oddly enough he's fine with regular Saber. I guess some people are more tolerant of that stuff than others.

I could almost tolerate her if, in spite of everything that is wrong with her backstory if she was still a compelling character. But this business of her moping her way between scenarios where she needs a dude to bail her out isn't cutting it.

Well a lot of the stuff will come up later, so I'll let you finish the show. However as to how Mordred exists:

Woman+Magic= Futanari for a night

Mordred also looks exactly like Saber.

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooope


nope

NOPE

nooooohooo nope

nuh uh.

nope.
 

Jarmel

Banned
I could almost tolerate her if, in spite of everything that is wrong with her backstory if she was still a compelling character. But this business of her moping her way between scenarios where she needs a dude to bail her out isn't cutting it.

I have a feeling you're going to both love and hate the 2nd half, all at the same time. Fate/Zero is oriented around taking apart Saber's character on multiple levels. It's a way of breaking her down so that Fate/Stay Night could build her back up.

Welp, I look forward to your impressions. Also remember to watch the Iris Dojo stuff after the end as it explains some stuff.
 

CorvoSol

Member
I have a feeling you're going to both love and hate the 2nd half, all at the same time. Fate/Zero is oriented around taking apart Saber's character on multiple levels. It's a way of breaking her down so that Fate/Stay Night could build her back up.

Welp, I look forward to your impressions. Also remember to watch the Iris Dojo stuff after the end as it explains some stuff.

This should would be so much better if it ditched her storyline altogether. And I don't mean that just because I hate her in particular, either. Irisviel and Kiritsugu aren't very compelling despite having the lion's share of the plot. I'd LOVE to know more about Berserker and Kariya, but they get bit roles. I don't even know WHO Assassin is. I'd like people other than this team to get screen time.

In the show's defense, Team Rider and Team Lancer are getting good screentime, but even Archer is criminally underused.
 

fertygo

Member
The creator just want female arthur in completely history irrelevant story. Nothing about her period, lineage, nope. So those thing doesn't actually matter or told.

But if you really wanted to know... buy the info book, they gonna told you breh.
 

Jarmel

Banned
This should would be so much better if it ditched her storyline altogether. And I don't mean that just because I hate her in particular, either. Irisviel and Kiritsugu aren't very compelling despite having the lion's share of the plot. I'd LOVE to know more about Berserker and Kariya, but they get bit roles. I don't even know WHO Assassin is. I'd like people other than this team to get screen time.

In the show's defense, Team Rider and Team Lancer are getting good screentime, but even Archer is criminally underused.

Get to the 2nd half. That's really all I should say.

Assassin is Hassan-i-Sabbah, someone I have no fucking clue about.
 
This should would be so much better if it ditched her storyline altogether. And I don't mean that just because I hate her in particular, either. Irisviel and Kiritsugu aren't very compelling despite having the lion's share of the plot. I'd LOVE to know more about Berserker and Kariya, but they get bit roles. I don't even know WHO Assassin is. I'd like people other than this team to get screen time.

In the show's defense, Team Rider and Team Lancer are getting good screentime, but even Archer is criminally underused.

Kariya and Berserker do get more screen time in the shows second half.

That's pretty much all I'll say about it though, since I don't want to reveal much. You're really getting into the meat of the show now. I look forward to your impressions of the second half. :)
 
Fate/Zero 11

Criticizing the show's portrayal of Arthur because it doesn't jive with the historical context of his character is an angle I haven't seen explored before. Though it didn't effect me nearly as much (probably because I don't know jack about the historical Arthur) I like the insight I'm gleaming while reading your posts.


Well a lot of the stuff will come up later, so I'll let you finish the show. However as to how Mordred exists:

Woman+Magic= Futanari for a night

Mordred also looks exactly like Saber.

It's the only logical explanation.
 

Gazoinks

Member
I thought "multiple-personality" in here not mental disease on literal context, but the identity that passed to countless person that made it impossible who the original.

I haven't watched F/Z in a while, but I thought this was what it is. That Assassin basically represents an order of faceless assassins instead of one dude.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Fate/Zero 11

Let me start by saying this was a great episode, and here's why:

Saber is utter shit as a character. Absolute shit from every angle. Animation wise she's fucking hideous to behold, her motivation doesn't jive with either the pseudohistorical nor popular, legendary Arthur, nothing about the hilarious charade they'd have had to enact to fool medieval-or-pre-medieval Anglos into believing she was a man and letting her ascend the throne holds up to an ounce of scrutiny, she can't hold her own in any fight ever (requiring, without fail, that men bail her out) and frankly she's a bore in conversation.

I mean take a minute and think her through with me. If she's the pseudohistorical Arthur who repels the Saxon invasion, then why is she so obsessed with saving Britain from destruction? She already did. If she's the legendary Arthur and is referring to the end of his reign over Britain, with Lancelot's and Mordred's insurrections, that raises a shitton of other questions. Remember that Britain was saved from that, too. Arthur's realm either passes into the hands of his surviving sons or into the hands of his kinsman Constantine, but the point is that Britain outlasts Arthur, Lancelot and Mordred, so it isn't destroyed.

Where the fuck would Mordred even come from, though? Arthur couldn't sire him or anybody else in this version of the story, so the traitor who does him in simply doesn't exist. All that leaves is Lancelot, except Lancelot's treachery doesn't happen until Arthur is an old man and the flashback makes it look like this British Apocalypse happened when Saber was still exactly the same age she is in the show. What's more is that Lancelot's entire treachery begins to unravel with Arthur as a woman. How in the world did they ever manage to carry the farce far enough to get Arthur a wife? In what world do dark age thinkers let women get married?

But let's hit that flashback again because that shit pissed me off to no end. In it, we clearly see Saber in the exact fucking dress she wears in the show. Remember that Saber allegedly posed as a man her whole life and basically nobody knew she was a girl. How? She wore a fucking skirt to war. That doesn't make any sense. If I was a woman pretending to be a man I can't think of a better way to fuck that up than to forego the gender hiding platemail of my day and wear a fucking ball gown to battle. Also, her hair is long in this scene. Now, it isn't that uncommon for men to have long hair back in those days, sure, but you're telling me that nobody at any point saw Arthur's pretty face and flowing hair and said "Hey but doesn't the King look rather like a lass?"

Absolutely nothing about her backstory holds up. It works for Joan of Arc, sure, because Joan of Arc actually did see France destroyed and would want to stop the shit that happened to it. Joan didn't wear skirts into battle because only fucking idiots do that, but the character's fundamental motivation makes so much more sense that way. It's sad when a stark raving lunatic knows the character better than the writers do.

The rest I've gone into detail before, how Saber constantly needs saving even though she's supposed to be the mightiest of all these warriors (despite her having displayed exactly 0 powers compared to literally every other character), how she never ever lightens up, and how everything related to her, Irisviel and Kiritsugu is just a boring fucking drag written to appease the Newtype Magazine voters.

But let's bring this back to the point I want to make. The reason this episode is good because for the first fucking time somebody actually points out how much Saber fucking sucks. Rider just tears her to pieces and he's spot on on each and every point about this sanctimonious little shit playing dress up and pretending she's Xena Warrior Princess. To emphasize his point, he shows her that any King worth his salt has friends and doesn't whine like a bitch about being alone, pulls out his red materia, summons Knights of the Round, and beats the shit out of the Ass Creed Player's Convention just to prove his point. All this in the middle of a fucking drinking contest him and Gilgamesh are having while she sits there and mopes.

Because a fucking Anglo king somehow isn't going to be a heavy drinker.

The point I'm making is that Rider opens his mouth, flat out says what we're all thinking "You're not a king, you're a little girl." and then proves it again and again in a glorious display of what a fucking war-king is like. And it is magical. So magical, in fact, I will be downright livid when this show pulls the inevitable and unfair move of killing Rider so that Saber can find her balls and do some shit and win, since her awful, terribly drawn face is the face of this franchise.

Because the writer once jerked off to a copy of The Mists of Avalon and has been desperately trying to justify it ever since.

Saber is the most powerful servant in general in a fair fight. Not sure what you mean by that.
 

Blusby

Member
All Assassin class servants in the HGW are different people under the same name of Hassan-i Sabbah. The Fate/Zero Hassan's ability was that he can manifest his split personalities into multiple beings.
 

CDiggity

Member
This should would be so much better if it ditched her storyline altogether. And I don't mean that just because I hate her in particular, either. Irisviel and Kiritsugu aren't very compelling despite having the lion's share of the plot. I'd LOVE to know more about Berserker and Kariya, but they get bit roles. I don't even know WHO Assassin is. I'd like people other than this team to get screen time.

In the show's defense, Team Rider and Team Lancer are getting good screentime, but even Archer is criminally underused.

Assassin in Fate Zero was Hassan i Sabbah, the dude who founded the Hashshashin (or Assassins if you will) in the 11th century. The group was an insurrection group against the Turks who occupied northern Persia and were known for their tactics and subterfuge.
 

Jarmel

Banned
Log Horizons 2-9
The real life component was weird in that the character designs actually look asian. I wish more MMO shows did that to depict the difference between the virtual world and the MMO.
 

CorvoSol

Member
Criticizing the show's portrayal of Arthur because it doesn't jive with the historical context of his character is an angle I haven't seen explored before. Though it didn't effect me nearly as much (probably because I don't know jack about the historical Arthur) I like the insight I'm gleaming while reading your posts.

I don't know that historical is the word I'd use, I just wish she was Arthur in any way at all. So far Excalibur is the only thing about this character that has anything to do with Arthur at all.

Saber is the most powerful servant in general in a fair fight. Not sure what you mean by that.

She straight up lost the fair fight against Lancer, well before it was interrupted. Since then every single occasion has required help. The fact that she was crippled at the start also comes under my list of complaints, though, because it means the one female warrior was gimped from the get go.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I don't know that historical is the word I'd use, I just wish she was Arthur in any way at all. So far Excalibur is the only thing about this character that has anything to do with Arthur at all.



She straight up lost the fair fight against Lancer, well before it was interrupted. Since then every single occasion has required help. The fact that she was crippled at the start also comes under my list of complaints, though, because it means the one female warrior was gimped from the get go.

Like many western stories in Japanese fiction, you can't expect terribly accurate portrayals because they lack the same familiarity with the source material.

I find if pretty funny how much people get off on Rider in F/Z. As soon as I saw the character I knew AnimeGAF would completely get off on the character, not because he's particularly interesting, but because he's a walking trope that AnimeGAF happens to like for some reason.

Saber being a perfect virgin waifu is a pretty valid complaint, not being accurate to the "real" Arthur isn't. Because there was no King Arthur with a magic sword.
 

Andrew J.

Member
ZZ Gundam 38

Beecha's in command, Judau's going crazy and/or is being haunted...the Nahel Argama is doomed. Almost as doomed as Bright's marriage!

Illia Pazom is hardcore, but also kind of stupid? I mean, if you want to kill an insubordinate comrade, fine, but maybe don't do it right when he's about to destroy the enemy bridge and win you the battle.
 

CorvoSol

Member
Saber being a perfect virgin waifu is a pretty valid complaint, not being accurate to the "real" Arthur isn't. Because there was not King Arthur with a magic sword.

I don't actually think I ever used the word real in connection with Arthur. I did use the word legendary, and you can't really argue that she matches up with the legends terribly well.

Sabers hardly alone in that with the Servants.

Which is why, I reiterate, I could bear it all if she didn't fucking suck as a character, too. That she isn't Arthur is a bynote to the fact that her character blows rancid chunks.

As evidence of this, let me advance that I similarly despised Nobunaga the Fool's depiction of Arthur, because he was an amorphous blob of evil.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I don't actually think I ever used the word real in connection with Arthur. I did use the word legendary, and you can't really argue that she matches up with the legends terribly well.



Which is why, I reiterate, I could bear it all if she didn't fucking suck as a character, too. That she isn't Arthur is a bynote to the fact that her character blows rancid chunks.

As evidence of this, let me advance that I similarly despised Nobunaga the Fool's depiction of Arthur, because he was an amorphous blob of evil.

I imagine a very small fraction of the Western community has a clue about more of the Arthurian legend than "pulled a sword from a stone; wielded Excalibur." Probably 5% or less of those people know that the Sword in the Stone isn't Excalibur. I imagine its even less in an Eastern culture.

I'm not going to defend Saber as a good character, but I do have to laugh at people thinking Rider is a good character. No, he's not. He's a huge ham that chews the fuck out of the scenery every chance he gets and jaded anime fans fucking love that trope, see. e.g. Charles Britannia or anyone else Norio Wakamoto voices for that matter.
 

kewlmyc

Member
Like many western stories in Japanese fiction, you can't expect terribly accurate portrayals because they lack the same familiarity with the source material.

I find if pretty funny how much people get off on Rider in F/Z. As soon as I saw the character I knew AnimeGAF would completely get off on the character, not because he's particularly interesting, but because he's a walking trope that AnimeGAF happens to like for some reason.

Saber being a perfect virgin waifu is a pretty valid complaint, not being accurate to the "real" Arthur isn't. Because there was not King Arthur with a magic sword.

Alexander the Great was also 5'6", so that's another inaccuracy. Not as major as "Arthur the girl", but still a inaccuracy, same with Gil being a blond bishounen. But if we go on about the heroes being inaccurate to their real life counterparts, we'll be here all day.

Still can't believe the whole "Saber grows a penis for one day in order to have Mordred, who is also a girl who looks just like Saber in order to sell merch" is an actual thing in this series. Making Nero also girl who looks like Saber is even worse in my books. I'm a fan of the series in general, but shit like this is hard to overlook
 

CorvoSol

Member
I imagine a very small fraction of the Western community has a clue about more of the Arthurian legend than "pulled a sword from a stone; wielded Excalibur." Probably 5% or less of those people know that the Sword in the Stone isn't Excalibur. I imagine its even less in an Eastern culture.

On the one hand, that's fair enough, but on the other--and I realize I'm just being stubborn at this point--I'd think that someone writing a series about these characters would opt to do enough research about them to not require magical futanari to solve these sorts of issues.

I mean shit, even Emperor of Darkness Dracula knew enough to include Van Helsing, and this is a movie where Dracula's goal is to find a good burger joint to take his wife and son to.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Alexander the Great was also 5'6", so that's another inaccuracy. Not as major as "Arthur the girl", but still a inaccuracy, same with Gil being a blond bishounen. But if we go on about the heroes being inaccurate to their real life counterparts, we'll be here all day.

Still can't believe the whole "Saber grows a penis for one day in order to have Mordred, who is also a girl who looks just like Saber in order to sell merch" is an actual thing in this series. Making Nero also girl who looks like Saber is even worse in my books. I'm a fan of the series in general, but shit like this is hard to overlook

The problem with "Saber was a girl" is that you have to justify at least the known parts of the story around it and they don't make a lot of sense. Saber is a girl because they needed a pure virgin waifu for Shirou.

Saber's story in Fate/Zero sucks mostly because Saber's motivations are practically non-sensical, even compared to Shirou's and almost all of her story already exists in Fate, so the writers in Zero couldn't really do anything with it.

On the one hand, that's fair enough, but on the other--and I realize I'm just being stubborn at this point--I'd think that someone writing a series about these characters would opt to do enough research about them to not require magical futanari to solve these sorts of issues.

I mean shit, even Emperor of Darkness Dracula knew enough to include Van Helsing, and this is a movie where Dracula's goal is to find a good burger joint to take his wife and son to.

You're not wrong that Saber sucks. I just think "Arthur is a girl" is a weak argument that drags down the rest of the argument - she's a bad character because her motivations are hot bullshit and there's practically no real development to her character unless you go all the way thorough both F/Z and F/SN (and even then its almost entirely motivated by finding a dude, not by any personal reflection of her weird personal problems). Arthur being a girl and fighting in anime girl armor aren't things that bother me, really - the fact that Arthur is a hot girl that literally nobody in her time noticed was a hot girl should clue you in that Nasu kind of doesn't care about being historically accurate.
 

Jarmel

Banned
On the one hand, that's fair enough, but on the other--and I realize I'm just being stubborn at this point--I'd think that someone writing a series about these characters would opt to do enough research about them to not require magical futanari to solve these sorts of issues.

I mean shit, even Emperor of Darkness Dracula knew enough to include Van Helsing, and this is a movie where Dracula's goal is to find a good burger joint to take his wife and son to.

Might I interest you in Fate/Prototype good sir?
 

fertygo

Member
Still can't believe the whole "Saber grows a penis for one day in order to have Mordred, who is also a girl who looks just like Saber in order to sell merch" is an actual thing in this series. Making Nero also girl who looks like Saber is even worse in my books. I'm a fan of the series in general, but shit like this is hard to overlook

Its not, because its just small snippet in infobook or something, like I'm said the series never touching the historical accuracy in the plot, these thing doesn't actually matter.

And you can argue all the inaccuracies is one of gimmick that made the series popular.
 

NeonZ

Member
Fate/Zero 11
I mean take a minute and think her through with me. If she's the pseudohistorical Arthur who repels the Saxon invasion, then why is she so obsessed with saving Britain from destruction? She already did. If she's the legendary Arthur and is referring to the end of his reign over Britain, with Lancelot's and Mordred's insurrections, that raises a shitton of other questions. Remember that Britain was saved from that, too. Arthur's realm either passes into the hands of his surviving sons or into the hands of his kinsman Constantine, but the point is that Britain outlasts Arthur, Lancelot and Mordred, so it isn't destroyed.

Although it isn't part of Arthurian legend itself, but something that would need to come afterwards, Britain was eventually conquered or simply dominated by the Saxons, who were Arthur's enemies, and I guess in a context where Arthur's stories were real the civil war that leads to his death could be used as part of the causes that would lead to a loss of power of the Britons and that take over happening. Still, even putting that aside, Saber's backstory is really stupid, from the overall concept to the execution.

Also, regarding her age, she's supposed to have dragon blood and so stopped aging after a while, which is why she still looks young at the time of her death... Her backstory is really stupid, especially when they go out of their way to explain some problems with really far fetched explanations, but then leave other stuff unexplained, like the battle dress while she's supposed to be hiding her gender.
 
I'm not going to defend Saber as a good character, but I do have to laugh at people thinking Rider is a good character. No, he's not. He's a huge ham that chews the fuck out of the scenery every chance he gets and jaded anime fans fucking love that trope, see. e.g. Charles Britannia or anyone else Norio Wakamoto voices for that matter.

Wuh?!? Rider's great! He isn't good just for being the stereotypical "big muscular manly man" of the show, he's good because of the chemistry he shares with Waver and the other servants. He plays a key role in developing other characters in the show.

Your entire argument basically boils down to "he's bad because he's big and he uses anime tropes than anime fans like too much".

Yeah, he uses those kinds of tropes that a lot anime fans like, but how he uses them and how it bounces off everything else in the show to create the bigger picture is what makes the character good.

You're criticizing him for what he is and not what he does.
 

Jarmel

Banned
Log Horizon 2-10

What a shitty raid guild. Giving up because y'all died once? Get back to me after you die 10+ times on the same boss.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Wuh?!? Rider's great! He isn't good just for being the stereotypical "big muscular manly man" of the show, he's good because of the chemistry he shares with Waver and the other servants. He plays a key role in developing other characters in the show.

Your entire argument basically boils down to "he's bad because he's big and he uses anime tropes than anime fans like too much".

Yeah, he uses those kinds of tropes that a lot anime fans like, but how he uses them and how it bounces off everything else in the show to create the bigger picture is what makes the character good.

You're criticizing him for what he is and not what he does.

All you have to do to be popular among the jaded western anime fan segment is shout a lot and say "manly" things every once in a while. All he really does is shout that he likes to drink, fuck and fight and that inherently bounces off of all the other very serious characters. That's not being a good character. That's just a contrast.
 
Log Horizon 2-10

What a shitty raid guild. Giving up because y'all died once? Get back to me after you die 10+ times on the same boss.

More like giving up because of an experience that seems like it should be impossible. All of those bosses are made for a full raid team to need to work really hard to take down. It's not hard to see why they got depressed when the bosses started working together, since defeating 3 of those guys at the same time IS pretty much impossible
 

Clov

Member
I'm not going to defend Saber as a good character, but I do have to laugh at people thinking Rider is a good character. No, he's not. He's a huge ham that chews the fuck out of the scenery every chance he gets and jaded anime fans fucking love that trope, see. e.g. Charles Britannia or anyone else Norio Wakamoto voices for that matter.

I'm not going to claim that Wakamoto isn't a large ham (because he certainly is), but personally I thought he was great in Legend of the Galactic Heroes and Planetes.
 

Jarmel

Banned
More like giving up because of an experience that seems like it should be impossible. All of those bosses are made for a full raid team to need to work really hard to take down. It's not hard to see why they got depressed when the bosses started working together, since defeating 3 of those guys at the same time IS pretty much impossible

Again if you're even getting disheartened the first time you wipe, you shouldn't be doing hard raids.
 
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