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[Durante]

The former set is primarily CPU bound. The latter is primarily GPU bound.

It is true though that if you look at the areas that appear to be the most lacking in these FO4 shots (e.g. draw and shadow distance) then those are the graphical features which generally do come with a significant CPU cost.
Purely GPU-only features such as resolution seem to be less of an issue.

Of course, the lacking AO doesn't fit with this argument, since it's also a really GPU-bound feature. It's also the most puzzling omission to me.

 

[Allnamestakenlol]

Which is why it is required for better enjoyment to disable the point of interest markers in UI menu.
Afterwards, zero checklists, just incredible world and highest quality writing and quests in an RPG yet.

Yup yup

 

[Nameless]

Previous Bethesda games on those platforms weren't the standard anyway. When people say it look like a previous gen it's the characteristics of those games they take away.

Did a search for in-game PS3 screenshots and found the following from users.

These seem more representative of what that sentiment is referring to. There is a strong visual design to FO4 but the fidelity is still lacking compared to more recent showcases.

PS4 .png's

Nah. Not even close. But feel free to keep trying, and by all means use as many tightly scripted shooters that don't allow you go to or interact with most of what's on the screen at any given moment, that you want.

 

[Darkstorne]

Looking at this thread makes me appreciate the jump from GTA4 to GTA5 a lot more. Not only did they improve gameplay, they also created one of the best looking last gen games. An open world game at that. They didn't just settle with "maybe good enough", they pused themselves and the hardware to the limit. I am seeing a lot of lame excuses here, but there is none.

And how many buildings can you enter in GTAV? Can you walk into a random house, pick up literally everything inside it, leave 100 wheels of cheese in the living room in their place, then return a week later to find the game has saved all that information? Can you dismantle the buildings in the game and use their parts to build an entirely new town somewhere of your choosing?

The visuals are never industry-leading in Bethesda games because the hardware is dedicated to industry-leading scale and interactivity instead. If you'd rather play a game that dedicates hardware to visuals in open world games instead of interactivity, then Bethesda games aren't for you, and you might prefer Assassin's Creed or Infamous instead.

 

[Facism]

Do they only have the resources for 1 guy doing graphics programming or something then? Because they have made less progress in seven years than an indie team that built their engine from scratch with one engineer.

Natural selection 1

Natural Selection 2

i love this post.

I miss NS1.

 

[Venom Fox]

It is true though that if you look at the areas that appear to be the most lacking in these FO4 shots (e.g. draw and shadow distance) then those are the graphical features which generally do come with a significant CPU cost.
Purely GPU-only features such as resolution seem to be less of an issue.

Of course, the lacking AO doesn't fit with this argument, since it's also a really GPU-bound feature. It's also the most puzzling omission to me.

Shadowing is puzzling as well.

Edit: They may have Occluded it from the engine. Bad joke I know

 

[Durante]

Shadowing puzzling as well.

Well, most approaches for decent quality distant shadows do require more passes through the geometry, so it's not entirely GPU-only. Not as much as AO at least.

 

[Venom Fox]

Well, most approaches for decent quality distant shadows do require more passes through the geometry, so it's not entirely GPU-only. Not as much as AO at least.

True, would have preferred more distant shadows, it's gonna be distracting seeing them appear and disappear.

Why do you think there's a lack of AO?

 

[Durante]

Why do you think there's a lack of AO?

I really have no idea, that's why I called it puzzling

 

[Windom Earle]

And how many buildings can you enter in GTAV? Can you walk into a random house, pick up literally everything inside it, leave 100 wheels of cheese in the living room in their place, then return a week later to find the game has saved all that information? Can you dismantle the buildings in the game and use their parts to build an entirely new town somewhere of your choosing?

The visuals are never industry-leading in Bethesda games because the hardware is dedicated to industry-leading scale and interactivity instead. If you'd rather play a game that dedicates hardware to visuals in open world games instead of interactivity, then Bethesda games aren't for you, and you might prefer Assassin's Creed or Infamous instead.

Wait, what? Because I criticize the leap in graphics that is being shown here I can't enjoy the gameplay and need to resort to Assassin's Creed?

Also entering buildings/objects is primarily a memory issue (and Bethesda was able to do it on last gen hardware) so this is no excuse for bad graphics. Creating interiors is a work load issue as well, but I am sure Bethesda has a million artists employed for that. And let's not kid ourselves, 90% of their house interiors are copy/paste designs anyway.

edit: Can you actually enter buildings without loading this time? That would make your argument at least a bit more valid.

 

[BlondeTuna]

Simple and clean. I like it.

 

[Tagyhag]

Those PNG's look MUCH better.

There's something about the game though, it looks really soft.

I don't know if it's the 1080p or they're using FXAA or something.

Either way, at least now it's way more presentable.

 

[Coreda]

Nah. Not even close. But feel free to keep trying, and by all means use as many tightly scripted shooters that don't allow you go to or interact with most of what's on the screen at any given moment, that you want.

Feel free to actually read the context and replies, along with my previous posts. Or don't, as the case may be.

 

[tuxfool]

Well, most approaches for decent quality distant shadows do require more passes through the geometry, so it's not entirely GPU-only. Not as much as AO at least.

They already cull large quantities of geometry. I also haven't seen any evidence of Shadow lod levels, which would be a fairly decent middle ground.

 

[KalBalboa]

I'm sure the game will be great, but I won't be playing for the fidelity of the graphics.

The art style looks great, as expected, but I would've loved a real engine overhaul.

 

[legacyzero]

Why do you think there's a lack of AO?

Dont most console games have a lack of AO, or a shitty solution like Far Cry 3 and 4?

 

[Venom Fox]

I really have no idea, that's why I called it puzzling

God knows, maybe they tried and it was too big a hit on the fps? They could've tried using a custom solution though.

Dont most console games have a lack of AO, or a shitty solution like Far Cry 3 and 4?

Yeah, there's been a few notable games with AO missing, BF4, Batman: AK etc. AO is nice when it adds detail to the environment. Maybe Bethesda thought it either didn't add anything to the game (stupid I know) or it was too intensive on PS4/Xbone?

 

[Kenzodielocke]

edit: Can you actually enter buildings without loading this time? That would make your argument at least a bit more valid.

Yes, most of them, according to that screenshot provider. There are bigger buildings that require loadingscreens, which is fine he said, because they're pretty fast.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

So many posts, so many page's neither side has gotten anywhere. My last thoughts are i jus hope the next fallout uses a new engine, im sure gameplay will be great as always so hopefully next go around they can step it up alil more graphically.

 

[DD-11]

Some people are ignorant to game design. Just leave them to it, maybe they'll educate themselves one day.

And some people are ignorant to how business and game development shops work. Have you ever worked in the industry? If not maybe you shouldn't be so smug. Judging by your comments, you haven't.

 

[Windom Earle]

Yes, most of them, according to that screenshot provider. There are bigger buildings that require loadingscreens, which is fine he said, because they're pretty fast.

Cool!

 

[Chille]

And how many buildings can you enter in GTAV? Can you walk into a random house, pick up literally everything inside it, leave 100 wheels of cheese in the living room in their place, then return a week later to find the game has saved all that information? Can you dismantle the buildings in the game and use their parts to build an entirely new town somewhere of your choosing?

The visuals are never industry-leading in Bethesda games because the hardware is dedicated to industry-leading scale and interactivity instead. If you'd rather play a game that dedicates hardware to visuals in open world games instead of interactivity, then Bethesda games aren't for you, and you might prefer Assassin's Creed or Infamous instead.

Wait there is cheese in the game?!? I can't wait to make a town filled with cheese

 

[Newtype-001]

im sure these 68 pages are filled with constructive criticism.

 

[Sarcastico]

And some people are ignorant to how business and game development shops work. Have you ever worked in the industry? If not maybe you shouldn't be so smug. Judging by your comments, you haven't.

I think you missed the context behind that post you quoted.

 

[Mifec]

Hoooooooo boy. Look mate lets compare shall we? First look at this screenshot of Fallout 4.
This is a PNG image, that stands for Pretty Nice Graphics and that's exactly what it delivers. PNG format also means that it is the best the game will ever look. Basically it's like setting everything to 'Ultra' on PC, but for consoles instead.
Now lets separate the men from the boys. This:
is a screenshot of the best game ever made, Crysis. I picked this shot because of the similar locale. That's right, not Crysis 3, shit mate not even Crysis 2. This is the original Crysis that came out in 2007, that's almost twenty years ago. Not only that, it's a JPG (Just Primary Graphics) which means that it's not even on Ultra settings (as stated above).

Now tell me which one looks better. That's right. Forget about lazy devs, Bethesda have straight-up fallen-out of this race.

Yours sincerely,
PC Ubermensch

This is legit the best post in the thread. God bless you my friend and well memed.

 

[foogles]

I'm sure the game will be great, but I won't be playing for the fidelity of the graphics.

The art style looks great, as expected, but I would've loved a real engine overhaul.

Same here. Resources are finite, even at a studio like BGS. Clearly they went with a focus on art and design, then improving combat and animation - and not a huge technical overhaul. (I still think a lot of this is stemming from the notion that Zenimax may have bought id Software at least partially for the id Tech 5 engine, then only realized when it was too late that the engine does so well because of its pre-baked lighting and inability to maintain its performance edge if they put in a day-night cycle. Which, if that's the case, that was silly on Zenimax' part not doing their research.)

Straight up image quality is not something that has ever really been at the top of BGS' list. I see a lot of comparisons to The Witcher 3 and yeah, it's a damn good game and certainly has the edge in image quality, but I know which game out of the two I'll have spent the most time in and it's not The Witcher.

 

[Cuzco]

I think the game looks really good. What were some people expecting? For such a huge game, the lighting, art style and textures all look quite nice

 

[Wishmaster92]

This upgraded version of the Creation engine support Physically-based Rendering (PBR) and a dynamic volumetric lighting system.

Could that explain the soft lighting in some pictures? It still looks impressive given the scope.

 

[Stiler]

What other RPGs are as complex and detailed as Bethesda's?

I mean there are plenty others with better (read actually good) writing and choice making, but none come close to the technical complexity that Bethesda does.

Gothic had a lot better NPC AI and things then Morrowind did. It was (IIRC) one of the first open world rpgs that had npc's that actually moved around and did things rather then simply stand still waiting for the player to interact with them.

 

[Icyflamez96]

i would like to simply play this game

 

[DieH@rd]

"Lets get broken! Lets get broken together this Christmas, you and me. You know, forget Rudolf, forget Frosty and Charlie Brown, i just wanna get, I just wanna get REAL SAD."

 

[robotrock]

i would like to simply play this game

You have to wait.

For now you can look at screenshots though and participate in this discussion

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

What other RPGs are as complex and detailed as Bethesda's?

I mean there are plenty others with better (read actually good) writing and choice making, but none come close to the technical complexity that Bethesda does.

The majority of WRPG realeasing in our days, even the mediocre ones does some things better than Bethesda games.
You need to understand all this extra paths and dialogues, character changes depending of your actions, the enviroment, or missions and AI behaviour are part of the technical aspects, as you need to program all the variables and thats a hard task, I can assure that.
That you can pick every piece of garbage of a npc or a table is misplacing technical resources, to be frank.
Putting less NPCs in a town just to have them named, have their own house, and spit some mediocre lines and 10 fetch quests missions is also misplacing technical and creative resources.

 

[rjinaz]

i would like to simply play this game

Hear hear. Holy hell it's November, so close!

 

[Wallach]

You have to wait.

For now you can look at screenshots though and participate in this discussion

You could also slam your dick in a car door. To-may-toh, to-mah-toh.

 

[nynt9]

The majority of WRPG realeasing in our days, even the mediocre ones does some things better than Bethesda games.
You need to understand all this extra paths and dialogues, character changes depending of your actions, the enviroment, or missions and AI behaviour are part of the technical aspects, as you need to program all the variables and thats a hard task, I can assure that.
That you can pick every piece of garbage of a npc or a table is misplacing technical resources, to be frank.
Putting less NPCs in a town just to have them named, have their own house, and spit some mediocre lines and 10 fetch quests missions is also misplacing technical and creative resources.

You might think that. Others might not. Sense of scale and interactivity does wonders to improve immersion. Every time I play a RPG I'm disappointed that I can't interact with every single object like in a Beth game, and that there aren't as many NPCs populating towns.

 

[rjinaz]

The majority of WRPG realeasing in our days, even the mediocre ones does some things better than Bethesda games.
You need to understand all this extra paths and dialogues, character changes depending of your actions, the enviroment, or missions and AI behaviour are part of the technical aspects, as you need to program all the variables and thats a hard task, I can assure that.
That you can pick every piece of garbage of a npc or a table is misplacing technical resources, to be frank.
Putting less NPCs in a town just to have them named, have their own house, and spit some mediocre lines and 10 fetch quests missions is also misplacing technical and creative resources.

Misplacing for you perhaps. But that's why I like Bethesda RPG and also a large part of the reason why they sell so well. So how are they misplaced?

 

[LookAtMeGo]

i would like to simply play this game

One does not simply play Fallout

 

[Icyflamez96]

You have to wait.

For now you can look at screenshots though and participate in this discussion

the graphics aren't that good but goodnuff

 

[Tovarisc]

You could also slam your dick in a car door. To-may-toh, to-mah-toh.

You picked "Polite response" from dialogue menu and this came out instead, right?

 

[Andodalf]

The majority of WRPG realeasing in our days, even the mediocre ones does some things better than Bethesda games.
You need to understand all this extra paths and dialogues, character changes depending of your actions, the enviroment, or missions and AI behaviour are part of the technical aspects, as you need to program all the variables and thats a hard task, I can assure that.
That you can pick every piece of garbage of a npc or a table is misplacing technical resources, to be frank.
Putting less NPCs in a town just to have them named, have their own house, and spit some mediocre lines and 10 fetch quests missions is also misplacing technical and creative resources.

Opinions, how do they work?

 

[Solid Samus]

The majority of WRPG realeasing in our days, even the mediocre ones does some things better than Bethesda games.
You need to understand all this extra paths and dialogues, character changes depending of your actions, the enviroment, or missions and AI behaviour are part of the technical aspects, as you need to program all the variables and thats a hard task, I can assure that.
That you can pick every piece of garbage of a npc or a table is misplacing technical resources, to be frank.
Putting less NPCs in a town just to have them named, have their own house, and spit some mediocre lines and 10 fetch quests missions is also misplacing technical and creative resources.

Misplaced resources, my butt. Bethesda's design priorities don't omit those things you mentioned from contributing to a satisfying game, and that 'every piece of garbage' (and not just 'garbage' but every piece of literally everything you use during the course of this game) is its own 3D object contextualized within the open world, allows for pretty unique and intricate scene building, alongside the sheer number of individual assets being utilized in any one location to decorate it. Just read this post. It's a technically ambitious thing to do but it results in a world that feels lived in, where everything that you do, everything that you use and interact with, has context. There's something to be said for a loot system where everything is a physical object as opposed to 2D art with text descriptions, and I don't see why so many people try to act reductively toward that shit like it doesn't change the game whatsoever. 'you can stack clipboards, wow' sounds like some shit I'd imagine DSP to say to himself

 

[JoseLopez]

Gee whiz I wonder why developers always focus on graphics over anything else

 

[Doran902]

I think it looks pretty good considering the things they are doing with crafting in the world and dynamic systems / physics and volumetric lighting and managing 1080p 30fps on both consoles. They have good art direction and are favouring new gameplay elements not in the previous games over having a pure graphics showcase. Also I have never been one to go to Bethesda for that anyway but if I was like many of said PC is the way to go on that front.

 

[Moon_frogger]

Do you think there is this linear trade off between the two? As in, if their gameplay designers are not coding gameplay systems, they are instead doing graphics programming?

I do not think that is how it works necessarily.

I don't think you understand resource allocation.

 

[Stiler]

You might think that. Others might not. Sense of scale and interactivity does wonders to improve immersion. Every time I play a RPG I'm disappointed that I can't interact with every single object like in a Beth game, and that there aren't as many NPCs populating towns.

For me, personally, quality over quantity is far more important.

I find Bethseda games, although very fun and enjoyable, to focus a lot more on quantity in regards to where they put their resources.

In an RPG game, I care much more about the story, characters, the interaction and choices you can make that affect other aspects of how the game plays.

I would have gladly traded the ability to pick up plates/forks and other useless junk in previous elder scrolls/fallouts if they instead had smarter AI, better choices and interactivity between npc's and the player, better animation quality, more "unique" dungeons that weren't just copy and pasted.

Give me a town of fewer npc's but each are interactable with their own storyline or at least some dialogue that gives them character and flavor instead of "nameless guard" that says the same 2-3 lines as all the other ones.

At least they are trying to make all the loot "junk" matter in fallout 4 with the crafting aspect, I just hope it works out and it's not an area that falls short.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

Gee whiz I wonder why developers always focus on graphics over anything else

The biggest issues I had with Fallout 3 was the combat. VATS is amazing but the moment to moment gunplay sucked ass. It looks massively improved for Fallout 4 and at the end of the day, I'm glad they focused on improving that and adding new gameplay elements like the base building rather than put time and money into making the next big face melting visual game. After the smoke clears and the game is out, I have a feeling most people will be happy with the decisions Bethesda made... Aside from any tinkering with the perk system or the dialogue system which I am a little curious about.
If they had made this game a real looker but had to cut out some of the things that make Bethesda games what they are.. The reaction would probably be even more negative.

 

[PeterLegend]

I'll be looking forward to the Digital Foundry analysis

 

[Jedi2016]

Given the lighting differences between the OP shots and the new ones, I wonder if the original capture guy had his brightness or gamma settings jacked way up high for some reason.

 

[-tetsuo-]

Broken mess, small scale compared to FO4, last-gen port. Try door number 4?

lol