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[SpacePirate Ridley]

Opinions, how do they work?

Ok, seems some people like to pick up every garbage item and spoon in their way, and have 20 npcs named in a city that its supposed to have a large number of people, to feel the world alive.
I ask a little more than that from any dev as big as Bethesda doing an RPG that is trying to sell me a belivable world. Like, for example putting real character interactions that are not only fetch quests and use the programming and writting to create more variables to this characters and what they do depending of your actions for it to be alive.

But hey, maybe they've done more work this time around, I could say good enough for this type of graphics for a game that is trying to do the Bethesda foundations of a big RPG (that is the part that I like, Im not trying to be a hater here, I just want them to improve, and im not talking about graphics), and then trying to imporve like other smaller studios (or even modders that program better gameplay elements and NPCs to their games) have done. IMO the png screens in the OP look good enough for a Bethesda who wants to improve themselves. Is there loading screens on every building anymore?

For me, personally, quality over quantity is far more important.

I find Bethseda games, although very fun and enjoyable, to focus a lot more on quantity in regards to where they put their resources.

In an RPG game, I care much more about the story, characters, the interaction and choices you can make that affect other aspects of how the game plays.

I would have gladly traded the ability to pick up plates/forks and other useless junk in previous elder scrolls/fallouts if they instead had smarter AI, better choices and interactivity between npc's and the player, better animation quality, more "unique" dungeons that weren't just copy and pasted.

Give me a town of fewer npc's but each are interactable with their own storyline or at least some dialogue that gives them character and flavor instead of "nameless guard" that says the same 2-3 lines as all the other ones.

At least they are trying to make all the loot "junk" matter in fallout 4 with the crafting aspect, I just hope it works out and it's not an area that falls short.

Although i agree wholeheartedly with you, they dont need fewer NPCs in a city or town. What they do need, and I suppose thats what you mean, is fewer quest and important interaction npcs with better variables and longer storylines, while making every other NPC just a walking person that doesnt want to interchange dialogue with you. Just like real life. Make a capital city a real city, not a 40 named npc fetch quest town.

 

[Solid Samus]

Ok, seems some people like to pick up every garbage item and spoon in their way, and have 20 npcs named in a city that its supposed to have a large number of people, to feel the world alive.
I ask a little more than that from any dev as big as Bethesda doing an RPG that is trying to sell me a belivable world. Like, for example putting real character interactions that are not only fetch quests and use the programming and writting to create more variables to this characters and what they do depending of your actions for it to be alive.

I bet you can't show me an RPG with industry leading graphics that doesn't ever fall back on the ever nebulous 'fetch quest'.

And while Bethesda needs to have upped their world design game where the population and the things they do are concerned, the mechanic which you see fit to reduce to 'picking up garbage and spoons on the ground' lets Bethesda contextualize every single object in the world, and helps to enable intricate scene decoration and enhanced roleplaying potential alike. I really think that that shit is more than worth the technical tradeoffs.

But hey, maybe they've done more work this time around, I could say good enough for this type of graphics for a game that is trying to do the Bethesda foundations of a big RPG (that is the part that I like, Im not trying to be a hater here, I just want them to improve, and im not talking about graphics), and then trying to imporve like other smaller studios (or even modders that program better gameplay elements and NPCs to their games) have done. IMO the png screens in the OP look good enough for a Bethesda who wants to improve themselves. Is there loading screens on every building anymore?

There's not loading screens on every building. There's never been, but it seems like there's fewer loading screens in Fallout 4 and more interior spaces that are seamlessly integrated into the world.

Although i agree wholeheartedly with you, they dont need fewer NPCs in a city or town. What they do need, and I suppose thats what you mean, is fewer quest and important interaction npcs with better variables and longer storylines, while making every other NPC just a walking person that doesnt want to interchange dialogue with you. Just like real life. Make a capital city a real city, not a 40 named npc fetch quest town.

I can agree to that. How do you feel about New Vegas?

 

[Dictator93]

I don't think you understand resource allocation.

Read the follow up posts in that discussion perhaps?

 

[Tesseract]

shadows and lod won't show up because of the radiation of the thermal nucleation of bombing an oblate sphereoid

bethy optimized for life, pc users will jack up life sliders until they get a killer dose of rads from their gpus

 

[lazygecko]

I ask a little more than that from any dev as big as Bethesda doing an RPG that is trying to sell me a belivable world. Like, for example putting real character interactions that are not only fetch quests and use the programming and writting to create more variables to this characters and what they do depending of your actions for it to be alive.

An example of this in Skyrim would be the fruit vendor in Whiterun that asks you to get the bard to stop hitting on her. I tried killing the bard just to see what would happen, and unfortunately but not entirely unexpectedly, the quest simply failed, went out of my journal, and she wouldn't even acknowledge my actions afterward as if the conversation had never even taken place. This became sort of symbolic to me of how shallow and superficial their games have gotten.

 

[RichiRamjag]

shadows and lod won't show up because of the radiation of the thermal nucleation of bombing an oblate sphereoid

bethy optimized for life, pc users will jack up life sliders until they get a killer dose of rads from their gpus

Sounds about right. Glad someone here knows their stuff for once.

 

[Robaperas]

You picked "Polite response" from dialogue menu and this came out instead, right?

hahaha, amazing.



You can say the game looks bad or less than stellar, and nothing will happen, it's not like criticizing a game by it's looks will make it less enjoyable for everyone. Some screens look great, others not so much... just like in most 3D games.

 

[Darkstorne]

An example of this in Skyrim would be the fruit vendor in Whiterun that asks you to get the bard to stop hitting on her. I tried killing the bard just to see what would happen, and unfortunately but not entirely unexpectedly, the quest simply failed, went out of my journal, and she wouldn't even acknowledge my actions afterward as if the conversation had never even taken place. This became sort of symbolic to me of how shallow and superficial their games have gotten.

On the other hand, if a girl in real life asked me to speak to one of her neighbours about all the flirting he was showing her, and I killed said neighbour... well I wouldn't expect her to talk to me either =P

You are allowed to beat that bard up in a fist fight as one way of getting him to stop though.

 

[JoseLopez]

The biggest issues I had with Fallout 3 was the combat. VATS is amazing but the moment to moment gunplay sucked ass. It looks massively improved for Fallout 4 and at the end of the day, I'm glad they focused on improving that and adding new gameplay elements like the base building rather than put time and money into making the next big face melting visual game. After the smoke clears and the game is out, I have a feeling most people will be happy with the decisions Bethesda made... Aside from any tinkering with the perk system or the dialogue system which I am a little curious about.
If they had made this game a real looker but had to cut out some of the things that make Bethesda games what they are.. The reaction would probably be even more negative.

Look at infamous second son it's the perfect example of graphics over everything when it's the most barebones game in the series.

 

[NinjamicWZ]

Ok, what do you mean when you say "objective checklist material" ? Do you mean the abandoned villages overrun by monsters you can destroy and watch people come back ? Or the bandit camps ? Or monster nests ? Because while these are sure more "generic" then the quests themselves, they are just something to do while travelling the world. There are no checklists involved, nobody is forcing Geralt/Player to seek them out and clear them, there is no 10/10 villages saved! like there is in Ubisoft games.
But the quests themselves, of which there are over 200, are the very antithesis of the Ubisoft school of shopping list design. And that is where the meat of the game is. They are almost all unique, fun, have their own cutscenes and well written dialogues. I find it disingenuous to say the game is "few steps removed from AC checklists" when this is, along with Fallout New Vegas, one of the least checklist filler based open world games ever made.
I sure as fuck hope Fallout 4 approaches its level of quest and writing quality, although juding based on Bethesda's past games, I am not holding my breath.

You like Witcher 3 too much to see anything in it that gets other games criticized just the same. It's like blasphemy to you, that's why people are reacting to that guy like he's insane for not thinking it's the most amazing and most beautiful game ever.

I enjoyed Witcher 3 a ton. I hope Fallout 4 structures it's quests and points of interest the way the last two Fallout entries did, but better. Encounter an opening or door, go in and and explore. Find something you can use there and have an interesting exploratory or combat experience, even if you weren't told to go there by a quest yet. Just happen to encounter an NPC who may or may not be a quest, but will likely provide some bountiful gains or opportunity anyway. No "clear mini vault->get to the top of [X] for upgrade->get to town, routinely check the billboard, accept every clearly indicated non-story related quest you can find there, then run around making sure you knock them all out->lvl up and go hunt burly monsters you ran from before, MMO style->equipment set, stash hunt round 1, 2, 3, 4, 5~" etc stuff.

I'd love a few long quest threads that awed me as much as ghost baby or witch sisters in the swamp, but eh... you're acting like this is shakespeare meets Xenogears. It's a cool fantasy story with words in it, and some amazingly memorable moments.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

Look at infamous second son it's the perfect example of graphics over everything when it's the most barebones game in the series.

Good example. Fallout 4, IMO, is a significant enough of an improvement with the visuals that on top of the improvements made to the gameplay, I am happy.

 

[RichiRamjag]

Look at infamous second son it's the perfect example of graphics over everything when it's the most barebones game in the series.

Again, who knows if that was just bad design versus having no other options due to graphics? We don't.

I don't remember there being much to do in any of the infamous games to begin with tbh. GTA would make a better comparison imo.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

Again, who knows if that was just bad design versus having no other options due to graphics? We don't.

I don't remember there being much to do in any of the infamous games to begin with tbh. GTA would make a better comparison imo.

GTA would for sure. (San Andreas to IV) For Infamous.. If I had to guess, it would be that they had to meet deadlines and the visuals became the most important thing to get right. First light saw an improvement over SS in mission design IMO. Not much to do with hardware limitations why SS mission design was so crap I don't think. Where as, and I'm no expert on game development, I would think that to have a game with as much stuff in it as Fallout 4, to have The Witcher 3's level of visuals, hardware limitations are probably an issue.
I dunno.

 

[RichiRamjag]

GTA would for sure. For Infamous.. If I had to guess, it would be that they had to meet deadlines and the visuals became the most important thing to get right. First light saw an improvement over SS in mission design IMO. Not much to do with hardware limitations why SS mission design was so crap I don't think. Where as, and I'm no expert on game development, I would think that to have a game with as much stuff in it as Fallout 4, to have The Witcher 3's level of visuals, hardware limitations are probably an issue.
I dunno.

I'd never expect witcher levels of visuals due to the differences in the game. I wouldn't mind some slightly better textures though. But I agree with you regarding infamous. A pretty game having bad missions doesn't mean that good graphics and good game design are exclusive from one another. There is such a thing as a middle ground.

 

[Pachinko]

I'm not even a fan of fallout games but this looks like a pretty solid generational leap ahead of Fallout 3 and New Vegas , hell even compared to Skyrim it's a pretty good jump ahead. There's way more scene geometry , it probably runs at a steadier clip and the textures (while there are a few bad ones) are an insane quality bump over last gen stuff.

Given that this game lets you build your own town and play a kind of base defense minigame with it , I think any perceived graphical shortcomings can be looked past. Those saying "but the witcher 3 looks better" are kind of missing the point here. Fallout 4 simply isn't the same type of game and I think Bethesda has built their best looking game yet with the most consistent artstyle to boot.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

I'd never expect witcher levels of visuals due to the differences in the game. I wouldn't mind some slightly better textures though. But I agree with you regarding infamous. A pretty game having bad missions doesn't mean that good graphics and good game design are exclusive from one another. There is such a thing as a middle ground.

I think that's where Fallout 4 for falls for me. A good middle ground. While I agree there are some things that could be improved upon visually, I think the jump from the last installment coupled with the improvements to the gameplay department is a good middle ground and a proper evolution of the series for this generation.

 

[Denton]

You like Witcher 3 too much to see anything in it that gets other games criticized just the same. It's like blasphemy to you, that's why people are reacting to that guy like he's insane for not thinking it's the most amazing and most beautiful game ever.

I enjoyed Witcher 3 a ton. I hope Fallout 4 structures it's quests and points of interest the way the last two Fallout entries did, but better. Encounter an opening or door, go in and and explore. Find something you can use there and have an interesting exploratory or combat experience, even if you weren't told to go there by a quest yet. Just happen to encounter an NPC who may or may not be a quest, but will likely provide some bountiful gains or opportunity anyway. No "clear mini vault->get to the top of [X] for upgrade->get to town, routinely check the billboard, accept every clearly indicated non-story related quest you can find there, then run around making sure you knock them all out->lvl up and go hunt burly monsters you ran from before, MMO style->equipment set, stash hunt round 1, 2, 3, 4, 5~" etc stuff.

I'd love a few long quest threads that awed me as much as ghost baby or witch sisters in the swamp, but eh... you're acting like this is shakespeare meets Xenogears. It's a cool fantasy story with words in it, and some amazingly memorable moments.

How to win internet argument:

1) call opponent blind fanboy (in a bit more words)
2) ???
3) Profit!

Goodbye.

 

[NinjamicWZ]

How to win internet argument:

1) call opponent blind fanboy (in a bit more words)
2) ???
3) Profit!

Goodbye.

So I win? Cool.

Peace.

 

[Asgaro]

1.

2.

Screen shot two is from the E3 demo. I'm assuming that it was running on PC, but still the difference is big.

EDIT: I don't know pic 1 doesn't have that foggy blur effect that pic 2 has. Will be interesting to see what the game actually looks like on all platforms. Regardless I'll have fun playing it.

(pls dont kill me. You know it's funny and relevant.)

 

[Tovarisc]

(pls dont kill me. You know it's funny and relevant.)

I'm PC gamer and I feel ashamed when someone posts this PC masterraceherpderp bullshit. Too often see these "funny master race jokes" skew people into thinking PC gamers are assholes.

 

[robotrock]

(pls dont kill me. You know it's funny and relevant.)

laaaaame

 

[Garrett Hawke]

The IQ on those PNG shots is really nice imo. Also it's amazing how compression nearly made the PBR unnoticeable. It's very clear in the PNG shots.

 

[RichiRamjag]

(pls dont kill me. You know it's funny and relevant.)

Waack!!! Take it to Reddit!

The IQ on those PNG shots is really nice imo. Also it's amazing how compression nearly made the PBR unnoticeable. It's very clear in the PNG shots.

It really is insane, never seen such a difference.

 

[KiefbladeMaster]

Those PNG shots look good. The JPG shots look over saturated, like they had the gamma messed up.

 

[Trace]

The IQ on those PNG shots is really nice imo. Also it's amazing how compression nearly made the PBR unnoticeable. It's very clear in the PNG shots.

IQ makes a much bigger deal than many give it credit for. If you can't make out the details, it all ends up looking like a blob.

 

[Technosteve]

I hope obsidian gets to make fallout new new jersey

 

[Mr. F]

(pls dont kill me. You know it's funny and relevant.)

Zero Punctuation and its memes in 2015, the bleeding edge of relevance.

 

[WickedLaharl]

I'm PC gamer and I feel ashamed when someone posts this PC masterraceherpderp bullshit. Too often see these "funny master race jokes" skew people into thinking PC gamers are assholes.

I'm not a PC gamer and it got a chuckle out of me.

 

[benny_a]

le master race may may

 

[Tovarisc]

I hope obsidian gets to make fallout new new jersey

I'm not surprised if they are done with Bethesda after clusterfuck that was NV development. Rushing development resulting in broken game with cut content and holding back bonuses because of Metacritic score.

I bet Obsidian will have their hands full with Pillars of Eternity stuff and maybe even get some dips on some White Wolf IP stuff, now that Paradox owns WW and are good pals with Obsidian.

I'm not a PC gamer and it got a chuckle out of me.

You are one of the few console gamers that I have seen then that get chuckle from that master race BS. Most that I have seen just ask if all PC gamers are morons / assholes.

 

[BoosterDuck]

I hope obsidian gets to make fallout new new jersey

it should be Fallout New Angeles to carry the west/east coast distinction

 

[Hypron]

Considering how defensive some people get in this thread I can only imagine what the review thread is going to be like if a couple of reviewers give this game less than 9/10.

 

[Solid Samus]

I'm not surprised if they are done with Bethesda after clusterfuck that was NV development. Rushing development resulting in broken game with cut content and holding back bonuses because of Metacritic score.

I bet Obsidian will have their hands full with Pillars of Eternity stuff and maybe even get some dips on some White Wolf IP stuff, now that Paradox owns WW and are good pals with Obsidian.

Last I heard Obsidian was still on good terms with Bethesda.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

It really is insane, never seen such a difference.

IQ makes a much bigger deal than many give it credit for. If you can't make out the details, it all ends up looking like a blob.

Indeed, really pleasant image

 

[AU Tiger]

Uhhgg this game looks last-gen as hell. The dog and texture are terrible. Really glad I preordered PC version. i'll probably just play other games until the modders give it the skyrim spit shine and high res textures and meshes.

the lighting looks good at least. That's going to make a huge difference vs skyrim.

I suspect that the mods will roll out swiftly.

 

[Jesus_Christ_Almighty]

So how about a show of hands...

If you're super excited about Fallout 4, but have decided not to buy it because the graphics aren't good enough, then give us a thumbs up.

I simply don't believe there are any Fallout fans out there who won't be buying this game because of its graphics.

 

[benny_a]

So how about a show of hands...

If you're super excited about Fallout 4, but have decided not to buy it because the graphics aren't good enough, then give us a thumbs up.

I simply don't believe there are any Fallout fans out there who won't be buying this game because of its graphics.

You seemingly based on your posts in this thread care way too much what other people say about this game.

 

[ISee]

Wait, why? What one is playing in 2015 is a completely valid frame of reference to have when talking about a game releasing in 2015.

Looking better than Fallout 3 did at release all those years ago is not the bar Fallout 4 needs to clear. That's not a currently valid frame of reference for the people judging these graphics as substandard for a big budget title in 2015. It's other big budget titles in 2015, it's Fallout 3 (or other Bethesda games) with all the bells and whistles and mods.


Though the Elder Scrolls and Fallout modding communities were always very active and one of the best examples of communities taking matters into their own hand to improve the basic product, Skyrim's popularity really elevated that mod scene to a level of its own - with that in mind, I'm sure Fallout 4 will look great 8-12 months after release, too.

I do not think that a heavily modded Skyrim/Fallout 3/New Vegas to Fallout 4 on PS4 comparison is fair because (most!) PCs are way more powerful than a PS4.
A heavily modded 2015 Skyrim can look beautiful, but you need a relatively 'good' PC to run it and for sure a PC that is more powerful than a modern console. So in the end you are comparing the 'possibility' of a PC with the 'possibility' of a console. And a PC will always win that for obvious reasons. We also do not compare Witcher 3 PS4 to Witcher 3 PC for this reason.

People were able to turn something like that:

into that:

And a skyrim that looks so beautiful runs like shit on many PCs and wouldn't be possible on a PS4. So why compare it to a 2015 PS4 game?

 

[Trace]

So how about a show of hands...

If you're super excited about Fallout 4, but have decided not to buy it because the graphics aren't good enough, then give us a thumbs up.

I simply don't believe there are any Fallout fans out there who won't be buying this game because of its graphics.

Simple: There aren't any. I can't think of anyone that is actually a Fallout fan that would not play a new Fallout game just because it looks worse than some other games.

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

One of these dogs is from a game that runs at 60FPS on consoles. 9/10 people can't tell the difference! Can you?

Hard to discern, I may need to consult the council.

They're all dead, Ben

 

[CyberPunked]

Those games not only look worse, but they're linear as fuck and have very little interaction, few NPCs, very little in the way of inventory, just nothing that makes them comparable. I mean, it's laughable that anyone would make that comparison.

He's comparing the visuals, not the games. There is no argument that FO4 on PS4 looks more impressive than TLOU, U3 or GoW, because it doesn't.

 

[Solid Samus]

He's comparing the visuals, not the games. There is no argument that FO4 on PS4 looks more impressive than TLOU, U3 or GoW, because it doesn't.

Those games still look great thanks to their art styles, but they don't hold up nearly as well as you think they do, if you actually subject their IQ to any degree of scrutiny.

I'd make the argument that FO4 looks more impressive than those games on PS3 in several important ways, and it runs at 1080p with some solid AA to boot. It kind of blows my mind that you're arguing that 'there's no argument'.

Here's a small handful of Uncharted 3 shots on Digital Foundry for you.

 

[DeepEnigma]

They're all dead, Ben

Drops some Force Acid, blue glowies, blue glowies errrrwhere!

 

[tuxfool]

The IQ on those PNG shots is really nice imo. Also it's amazing how compression nearly made the PBR unnoticeable. It's very clear in the PNG shots.

Eh?

I see no effective usage of PBR anywhere. There is just so much stuff still baked into diffuse. Roughness differences are barely noticeable and even a lot of metallic objects look kind of plasticky.

 

[BlitzerRadic]

Those games still look great thanks to their art styles, but they don't hold up nearly as well as you think they do, if you actually subject their IQ to any degree of scrutiny.

I'd make the argument that FO4 looks more impressive than those games on PS3 in several important ways, and it runs at 1080p with some solid AA to boot. It kind of blows my mind that you're arguing that 'there's no argument'.

Here's a small handful of Uncharted 3 shots on Digital Foundry for you.

Don't bother, this is the guy that thinks Dying Light looks ugly as hell lol.

 

[DOWN]

So now that we know the missing shadows indoors are due to the Pipboy flashlight washing them away, I feel like people definitely jumped way too hard on the game.

 

[Alienous]

So now that we know the missing shadows indoors are due to the Pipboy flashlight washing them away, I feel like people definitely jumped way too hard on the game.

Go into a room and point a flashlight at things. That doesn't erase all shadows.

It doesn't look good, and the why of it doesn't change that, unless using a Pipboy Flashlight indoors is a unique circumstance.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

So now that we know the missing shadows indoors are due to the Pipboy flashlight washing them away, I feel like people definitely jumped way too hard on the game.

Yep lmao. Been funny to see all the 180s

 

[lazygecko]

So now that we know the missing shadows indoors are due to the Pipboy flashlight washing them away, I feel like people definitely jumped way too hard on the game.

What about the pre-war indoor screenshots?

 

[DeepEnigma]

So now that we know the missing shadows indoors are due to the Pipboy flashlight washing them away, I feel like people definitely jumped way too hard on the game.

Yep lmao. Been funny to see all the 180s

You are joking right?

Use a flashlight in any dark room, tell me objects do not cast any form of shadows?

Hell, go into a fully lit room, and tell me there are no shadows or "AO".

This is really reaching.