Magic Carpet
Gold Member
I might actually choose to use frame gen in 4k in performance mode. There were artifacts but they were not as distracting or strobing as bad as before.
This is indeed an improvement across the board, IMHO.
Cyberpunk 2077: DLSS 4 Patch Out Now
- Thread starter 3liteDragon
- Start date
This is indeed an improvement across the board, IMHO.
Corporal.Hicks
Member
Short explanation - Transformer model is much better compared to the old CNN model.
If you would like to read a longer explanation:
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/dlss4-multi-frame-generation-ai-innovations/
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sendit
Member
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xenosys
Member
Yeah, I think there's a small FPS sacrifice that's made in exchange for the improved image. I imagine that's why CDPR have given you the option of toggling between the two.
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FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
I'll try this later after all my mods get updated for the new patch. I don't want to break my mods right now by installing this. Looks great though.
3liteDragon
Member
Yea I dropped down from DLSS Quality to Performance mode at 1440p & IQ looks way better in motion than the old DLSS Quality on my 4070 Super at max settings, it's insane. Frame Gen feels way more responsive now with reduced latency, 40-55ms most of the time. Frame rates are now mostly in the 90-115 range.
DLSS Perf (Transformer) | RT Overdrive
DLSS Perf (Transformer) | RT Overdrive
kevboard
Member
Yea I dropped down from DLSS Quality to Performance mode at 1440p & IQ looks way better in motion than the old DLSS Quality on my 4070 Super at max settings, it's insane. Frame Gen feels way more responsive now with reduced latency, 40-55ms most of the time. Frame rates are now mostly in the 90-115 range.
DLSS Perf (Transformer) | RT Overdrive
this is 720p internal? WTF? is this photo mode? because photo modes often increase the internal res... if this is indeed 720p upsampled to 1440p, then DAMN...
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
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kevboard
Member
so, a quick comparison after downloading the patch:
this is running on a 3060ti at 1440p DLSS Performance mode (extreme test case scenario, 720p to 1440p)
Standing Still
CNN:
Transformer:
Strafing to the right
CNN:
Transformer:
Path Tracing enabled, standing still
CNN:
Transformer:
for the Path Tracing test I had the Nvidia overlay on. it has a dramatic performance cost in some scenes on the 3060ti as you can see from the fact it drops from 64FPS to 36FPS
with pathtracing off, the cost difference between the 2 models is more like 5 fps, maybe 8 at most. but with path tracing it is a very steep cost, most likely due to the fact that the ray reconstruction with the transformer mode adds a shitload of stress to the tensor cores.
this is running on a 3060ti at 1440p DLSS Performance mode (extreme test case scenario, 720p to 1440p)
Standing Still
CNN:
Transformer:
Strafing to the right
CNN:
Transformer:
Path Tracing enabled, standing still
CNN:
Transformer:
for the Path Tracing test I had the Nvidia overlay on. it has a dramatic performance cost in some scenes on the 3060ti as you can see from the fact it drops from 64FPS to 36FPS
with pathtracing off, the cost difference between the 2 models is more like 5 fps, maybe 8 at most. but with path tracing it is a very steep cost, most likely due to the fact that the ray reconstruction with the transformer mode adds a shitload of stress to the tensor cores.
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Buggy Loop
Gold Member
3050 ~= 2050 hmmmmmmmm
And it runs well to the point where even in performance it outclasses CNN quality
I vaguely recall a claim I did not that long ago...
HMMMMMMMMMMM
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
At 1440p I wouldn't say Transformer 'Performance' scores a total win over CNN 'Quality'. There's some areas it looks more detailed(sharpened?), but I've also noticed weird dithering patterns, transparency flicker, some edge crawl, occasionally blurry objects, and rarely a complete breakdown and hallucination of detail.
On the flip side, on 5800x3D+4060 Ti 16GB you experience a jump from 54fps(CNN 'Quality') to 78fps(Transformer 'Perf') in downtown traffic while doing drive-by shootings at 1440p, Ultra settings, PT+RT RR+FG, and it's pretty damn playable. What's cool about the Transformer model is that even the aforementioned issues are isolated problems within an overall output that's somewhere around CNN 'Quality'/'Balanced' in 90%+ of the image, so it's not comprehensively fucking the image like CNN 'Perf' would, if that makes sense. The overall clarity is there like a higher base res.
On the flip side, on 5800x3D+4060 Ti 16GB you experience a jump from 54fps(CNN 'Quality') to 78fps(Transformer 'Perf') in downtown traffic while doing drive-by shootings at 1440p, Ultra settings, PT+RT RR+FG, and it's pretty damn playable. What's cool about the Transformer model is that even the aforementioned issues are isolated problems within an overall output that's somewhere around CNN 'Quality'/'Balanced' in 90%+ of the image, so it's not comprehensively fucking the image like CNN 'Perf' would, if that makes sense. The overall clarity is there like a higher base res.
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Bulletbrain
Member
Tried out the Transformer DLLs somebody posted here on Witcher 3.
Positives: Motion clarity is definitely improved. Generally looks sharper and more hi-def looking. 1440p quality looks pristine. 1440p performance looks overall better than CNN balanced which I've been using on the current play through.
Negatives: Artifacts still visible in transformer balanced/perf modes, especially moiré patterns (quality fixes it). Performance cost is higher. CNN balanced cost is approximately equal to Transformer performance (maybe a touch higher) so I have to drop down to transformer perf to keep the same FPS targets I had using CNN balanced. Quality of FG on 40 series more or less the same.
Positives: Motion clarity is definitely improved. Generally looks sharper and more hi-def looking. 1440p quality looks pristine. 1440p performance looks overall better than CNN balanced which I've been using on the current play through.
Negatives: Artifacts still visible in transformer balanced/perf modes, especially moiré patterns (quality fixes it). Performance cost is higher. CNN balanced cost is approximately equal to Transformer performance (maybe a touch higher) so I have to drop down to transformer perf to keep the same FPS targets I had using CNN balanced. Quality of FG on 40 series more or less the same.
Hoddi
Member
Ya, performance mode isn't perfect in all areas. But it goes from being fairly unusable at 1440p to being very usable and definitely helps my old 2080 Ti.
I'm also somewhat impressed by the new ultra performance mode. It's obviously a lot blurrier than the other modes but I don't find it offensive like it was before. It's still better than a basic 1080p > 1440p upscale and borderline makes path tracing viable on this card.
Rossco EZ
Member
1st is with CNN model
2nd with the transformer option
settings are hardware unboxed optimized settings.
can say for certain that even in the benchmark, in motion the newer version looks way smoother and sharper.
manfestival
Member
I hopped into cyberpunk to try it out and the shimmering in path tracing is awful. Really ruined my ability to see any difference between the things. Otherwise if the artifacts arent distracting me then it looks fantastic
dreamstation
Member
So this does nothing for console right? They not interested in doing a Pro update yet still doing PC updates. Doesn't seem fair.
RickSanchez
Member
If you're on PC i think there's a mod to remove him (or make him shut up). Here.
If you're on console, then my condolences.
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Buggy Loop
Gold Member
Game changer for Nintendo
Peoples are testing it with downclocked 3050 laptop to 3Tflop on famiboard and it works
Quality vs quality there's a performance hit of ~10~15% in cyberpunk
But the transformer model is so fucking good in lower qualities that you gain performance and still look better than CNN quality
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
LMAO
Hardware unboxed said that DLSS 4 upscaling is just a smoothing algorithm
It says it all how disconnected they are when Nvidia announces any new technology, they're always downplaying it initially until it makes no goddamn sense.
But I bet AMD CNN model they will be
Hardware unboxed said that DLSS 4 upscaling is just a smoothing algorithm
It says it all how disconnected they are when Nvidia announces any new technology, they're always downplaying it initially until it makes no goddamn sense.
But I bet AMD CNN model they will be
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hinch7
Member
Definately feels more snappy and motion way smoother and detailed and less artifacts. And this is (I assume) before reflex 2 as well. I tried ultra peformance before and it looked a little soft so I didn't bother testing properly. I did get around 60 ish FPS iirc with PT, no frame gen. Much better than before though if my memory serves.
Also replaced DLSS4 in BO 6 with 1600P, with 21:9 scaling and lowered DLSS from quality to performance and its brilliant. Similar image quality as before but far more FPS. AMD and Radeon have a long ways to catch up, again.
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Gonzito
Member
LMAO
Hardware unboxed said that DLSS 4 upscaling is just a smoothing algorithm
It says it all how disconnected they are when Nvidia announces any new technology, they're always downplaying it initially until it makes no goddamn sense.
But I bet AMD CNN model they will be
They forgot to take their medicines before filming the video
DirtInUrEye
Member
Am I the only one who never picks up on any Nvidia/AMD bias from HUB? They're critical of both in my experience. I dunno, these never ending accusations always scream viewer projection to me.
Senua
Member
I think it's clear where their preferences lie, but with how shitty Nvidia have been to consumers you can't blame them that much. I've yet to experience DLSS4 for myself so I can't comment on that yet
MMaRsu
Gold Member
Also 3000 series cards
DirtInUrEye
Member
You mean they seem to agree with the 88% of Steam users who have exhibited a preference for Nvidia? Sure. Objectively, Nvidia make superior cards to AMD. Is that even disputed anymore? Do people expect reviewers to not prefer the better cards or something?
GymWolf
Gold Member
Wait, wait, WAIT A FUCKING SECOND, so now dlss performance look better than old dlss quality?Yea I dropped down from DLSS Quality to Performance mode at 1440p & IQ looks way better in motion than the old DLSS Quality on my 4070 Super at max settings, it's insane. Frame Gen feels way more responsive now with reduced latency, 40-55ms most of the time. Frame rates are now mostly in the 90-115 range.
DLSS Perf (Transformer) | RT Overdrive
Is this what are you trying to say?
Rubim
Member
Faces still lose detail when i turn Path Tracing, its even more pronounced now that with the new model.
Path tracing is the blurried one.
Path Tracing OLD Model > New Model
Ray Tracing old vs new.
Path tracing is the blurried one.
Path Tracing OLD Model > New Model
Ray Tracing old vs new.
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DirtInUrEye
Member
Apparently so, multiple sources claiming the same thing.
GymWolf
Gold Member
That is great for people starved for performance but i guess that quality mode with the new model looks even better so i'm probably always gonna chose that one, balanced at the very, very worse.
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Rivdoric
Member
I did some quick comparisons with multiple games on a big 42 monitor and here is my input :
I Went to 2160 DLDSR 1.78 (2880 output) + DLSS Balanced (1670 input) CNN combo to the same DLDSR + DLSS Performance (1440) combo with the new DLSS Transformer (i ensured the preset J (required to make use of the transformer model) was used with an overlay).
Quality has improved quite significantly, even more so in motion.
I also compared my combo to a straight 2160 DLSS quality and while it looks very good, i think the DLDSR on top still improves the resulting image enough to be worth it on my 42" C4.
Just lower the sharpness of DLDSR a little bit if you use the new DLSS Transformer with it because it is a lot less blurry natively.
I checked Ultra performance preset for fun and while i won't use it, what the resulting image gives for a 720p input to 2160 is quite impressive now. Shimmering on stuff like shadows still makes it impracticable though, but it's still quite a feat !
I saw here and there some people claiming they now use Ultra perf for the same quality but i think it's quite exaggerated.
Tldr : You can lower the DLSS preset one or two notch (depending on your sensitivity) from your current preferred CNN preset while getting a better quality.
I Went to 2160 DLDSR 1.78 (2880 output) + DLSS Balanced (1670 input) CNN combo to the same DLDSR + DLSS Performance (1440) combo with the new DLSS Transformer (i ensured the preset J (required to make use of the transformer model) was used with an overlay).
Quality has improved quite significantly, even more so in motion.
I also compared my combo to a straight 2160 DLSS quality and while it looks very good, i think the DLDSR on top still improves the resulting image enough to be worth it on my 42" C4.
Just lower the sharpness of DLDSR a little bit if you use the new DLSS Transformer with it because it is a lot less blurry natively.
I checked Ultra performance preset for fun and while i won't use it, what the resulting image gives for a 720p input to 2160 is quite impressive now. Shimmering on stuff like shadows still makes it impracticable though, but it's still quite a feat !
I saw here and there some people claiming they now use Ultra perf for the same quality but i think it's quite exaggerated.
Tldr : You can lower the DLSS preset one or two notch (depending on your sensitivity) from your current preferred CNN preset while getting a better quality.
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Rubim
Member
Nope.
"NVIDIA told us that the Transformer Model will offer better visuals with less shimmering and ghosting than the CNN Model. However, the Transformer Model will not be as fast as the CNN Model. This is something you should all keep in mind."
Here are some early visual benefits of DLSS 4's Transformer Model
Here are some comparisons between DLSS 4's new Transformer Model and Basic Temporal Upscalers. So, let's see what DLSS 4 will bring.
www.dsogaming.com
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Bojji
Member
DirtInUrEye
Member
It does in that you can reduce upscaling quality a step or two and still maintain the fidelity you're used to (or better ) on the older model. If you just keep like for like settings in the new version it'll actually cost around 5fps depending on the title.
GymWolf
Gold Member
Hopefully the frame loss is negligeable because if we are talking about losing 10-20 frames the situation change...Nope.
"NVIDIA told us that the Transformer Model will offer better visuals with less shimmering and ghosting than the CNN Model. However, the Transformer Model will not be as fast as the CNN Model. This is something you should all keep in mind."
Here are some early visual benefits of DLSS 4's Transformer Model
Here are some comparisons between DLSS 4's new Transformer Model and Basic Temporal Upscalers. So, let's see what DLSS 4 will bring.
Rivdoric
Member
It's around 8-10% heavier perf wise on my 4090.
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Bojji
Member
You can see my post with with benchamark, CNN is ~2% faster with PT and ~5% faster with custom RT settings: