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[DCharlie]

"At least, that's the way I feel about it."

The thing is - things have actually being picking up rapidly over the last 2 years or so.
At the end of 2002 , this place utterly sucked ass.

In reality things are getting a lot better (outside of gaming that is)

 

[NotMSRP]

While the topic of industry problems is interesting, this article is nothing special or even great. Like other previous articles on similar topics, all the writers present only a shallow analysis of the industry at best.

 

[Deg]

Worth pointing out that Famitsu pointed out an increase so far for the year 2004. Thats this year to those not in the know.

 

[ravingloon]

Enter the Matrix sold quite well in Japan...

That's wonderful news. I bet that did nothing to reinforce the stereotype that western games suck!

 

[Deg]

That's wonderful news. I bet that did nothing to reinforce the stereotype that western games suck!

No. I think it proves that Western games can do well in Japan.

 

[ge-man]

IMO it has always seemed like the shrinkage in Japan's game market had deeper roots than the industry itself. There have been some great western games, but let's not kid ourselves--sequels and license games rule the roost here just as much as they do in Japan. Frankly, I think some of the proposed solutions from various parties have been too simple. There's no silver bullet answer--and the problem won't go anywhere if developers just give up in Japan and support the growing market.

It'll be interesting to see what the next gen holds for the east.

 

[Fatghost]

Since getting here some 5 weeks ago, I've really kind of felt like this whole country was just crumbling from the inside out, especially Tokyo. People, by and large, simply don't look happy to be alive, and much of what you see is an illusion. I know a bunch of you guys are going to TGS in September, which is being held in Makuhari (which is where I've basically been based since I got here), and I know that you guys are going to see an area built up with 30-story office buildings, elevated parks, and an overall modern setting, but just keep in mind that those 30-story buildings are almost entirely empty and that what you are seeing is merely a polished shell of what could or should be. That is what Japan as a whole society kinda seems to be like to me right now (or at least Tokyo...Kyoto seemed to be fairing much better), and I feel like that general trend is finally catching about to the Japanese game industry. After all, the country has been in recession for YEARS, and really at the rate they're going, it really does feel like the country will remain in recession for at least another 15 years. So basically my point is that the country itself has been in stagnation for a long time now, and I feel like that's really starting to show up in the game industry in Japan. Basically, I don't even think it's really any fault of the industry, but rather just another symptom of the greater sweeping cultural and social malaise of the country.

At least, that's the way I feel about it.

This is what I hear from my friends in Japan and from my friends who moved here from Japan too.

 

[sprsk]

No. I think it proves that Western games can do well in Japan.

Er, i think it sold there for the same reason it sold here.
"omg its a matorikusu geemu! suugooooooooooooooi!" *gets home* "mouuu nandayo kore."

 

[Kobun Heat]

This thread is useless without pics.

 

[JackFrost2012]

You still need to make Rape Rape High School: 3-B Kinpachi Sensei Final Edition.

GET CRACKIN'.

 

[Zer0]

ico for me the best game of this generation was japanese

in terms of original and fresh games japan still had the edge

and by the way

splinter cell oks it will be the next tomb raider

 

[Brofist]

In many ways gaming is getting tired lately, I can see why many Japanese are losing interest with so many other forms of entertainment here. When I was home in the US I did more gaming than I do in Japan.

 

[SantaC]

I still prefer the eastern games compared to the million star wars and world war games.

 

[kaching]

Rather, it is anti-Japanese, and frankly, Japan deserves a little trashing within the gaming community from time to time, because I think the nerd masses have a wildly inaccurate opinion of Japan, the Japanese, and the Japanese game industry.

So shouldn't the author be trashing the nerd masses instead of going after Japan by proxy? Not that he doesn't have some valid points but the article could do with some more accurate fact checking and objectivity rather than reaching for certain conclusions he has no right to make based on the evidence presented.

 

[MetatronM]

So shouldn't the author be trashing the nerd masses instead of going after Japan by proxy? Not that he doesn't have some valid points but the article could do with some more accurate fact checking and objectivity rather than reaching for certain conclusions he has no right to make based on the evidence presented.

Well, I agree they could have done a better job of fact checking, but why needlessly go out of your way to atteck a group of people when you could just address the issue at hand and seek to educate people on the way things really are? Granted, there are plenty of factual mistakes, but looking at Japan critically seems a far better way to go about it than to say "you game nerds are stupid and here is why."

Personally, I think we don't look at Japan critically enough, especially those of us who take an active interest in the gaming community/industry.

 

[jedimike]

Kind of explains why MS never had a chance... they don't have any sequels to established franchises. Plus it got a bad rap when the "it'll scratch your games" rumor was circulating at launch.

 

[jarrod]

The article is wrong. Onimusha 2 sold a million.

Other than that...

...there's also the huge success of Kingdom Hearts, Rockman.EXE and Winning Eleven (the last not being new, but being newly elevated to Platnum status), and tons of other smaller scale hit franchises that started this gen (Animal Forest, Pikmin, Wario Ware, Starfi, Xenosaga, Katamari Damancy, Naruto Taisen, Gyakuten Saiban, Seaman, Taiko, Monster Hunter, etc). There's far more new successful stuff to the JP market than simply Dynasty Warriors as the article suggests. Hell, even GTA has done pretty well there...

And even the best platformers have come from outside Asia this generation.

But the best selling platformers (Mario Sunshine & Sonic Adventure 2) were Japanese. Also, JP platformers seem to rule GBA (Kirby, Mario, MegaMan, Starfi, Sonic, etc) in fact GBA/GC seem like the only platforms where JP developed game sales still reign supreme.

 

[MetatronM]

...there's also the huge success of Kingdom Hearts, Rockman.EXE and Winning Eleven (the last not being new, but being newly elevataed to Platnum status), and tons of other smaller scale hit franchises that started this gen (Animal Forest, Pikmin, Wario Ware, Starfi, Xenosaga, Katamari Damancy, Naruto Taisen, Gyakuten Saiban, Seaman, Taiko, Monster Hunter, etc). There's far more new successful stuff to the JP market than simply Dynasty Warriors as the article suggests. Hell, even GTA has done pretty well there...

Well, many of the games you listed there are either licenses or part of a franchise (KH, Rockman.EXE, Naruto, Wario Ware, Xenosaga if you want to count its Xenogears pedigree). And Katamari did fairly well, but it was hardly what anybody would consider "a big hit."

And once again, I'll point out that this article was every Sony centric. Regardless, people can point out omissions and occasional inaccuracies all day if you want to, but it doesn't change the fact that the general thrust of what he was getting at ("the Japanese game market isn't what it used to be") is pretty accurate.

 

[Deg]

The japan will market may see an up this year. Especially with products such as the DS coming which could bolster the second half. The first half has shown growth already.

The japan market has always been nothing to the West anyway as hardly any western games ever sell. What makes it different now other than the need to bash Japanese Devs for no good reason? If anyone bashes Japanese devs. It most certainly shouldnt be Western devs as they have contributed hardly anything to the japanese marketplace.

 

[P90]

Kind of explains why MS never had a chance... they don't have any sequels to established franchises. Plus it got a bad rap when the "it'll scratch your games" rumor was circulating at launch.

Yup. DOA3 was NOT a sequel.

 

[Soul4ger]

No. I think it proves that Western games can do well in Japan.

Didn't Crash Bandicoot do that?

 

[jarrod]

Didn't Crash Bandicoot do that?

As did Pandemonium, Tomb Raider, Super Donkey Kong, Banjo-Kazooie, Starfox Adventures, Rachet & Clank...

 

[Late Stage Marxist]

Japan has its share of quirky titles, but nothing I'd call innovative or revolutionary. Sure, many Western games are merely an evolution of past revolutions, but Japan can't even say that much anymore.

 

[JackFrost2012]

As did Pandemonium, Tomb Raider, Super Donkey Kong, Banjo-Kazooie, Starfox Adventures, Rachet & Clank...

I dunno Pandemonium's sales offhand, but I've never seen it in a used game store.

Tomb Raider was fairly niche (the sequels hardly made a mark). Hardly blew people away.

Super Donkey Kong was successful. Go cheesy-ass rendering technology!

Banjo-Kazooie didn't sell much, I don't think. I'm not sure Banjo-Tooie even came out in Japan.

Starfox Adventures was a big fat failure - it and Eternal Darkness had the fastest MSRP-to-2000y drop I've ever seen.

Ratchet and Clank was only successful because it was a system pack in during the Xmas season. The sequel underperformed.

 

[Deg]

Super Donkey Kong was successful. Go cheesy-ass rendering technology!

It was successful because its Donkey Kong. A japanese franchise and a Nintendo one at that. Nintendo obviously handled it well.

 

[jarrod]

I dunno Pandemonium's sales offhand, but I've never seen it in a used game store.

It was given a Saturn only release by EA, rechristened Magical Hoppers.

Tomb Raider was fairly niche (the sequels hardly made a mark). Hardly blew people away.

The first game made an impact iirc.

Banjo-Kazooie didn't sell much, I don't think. I'm not sure Banjo-Tooie even came out in Japan.

BK managed 450k and BT 200k.

Starfox Adventures was a big fat failure - it and Eternal Darkness had the fastest MSRP-to-2000y drop I've ever seen.

260k is considered a failure? That's within striking distance of the GTA games.

Ratchet and Clank was only successful because it was a system pack in during the Xmas season. The sequel underperformed.

220k isn't bad considering it's normal priced MSRP and no pack in. Most JP games don't manage those sales, in fact most Japanese games sell less than all the games I mentioned.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Finnaly found EtM's Japanese numbers. It sold 76k on the PS2, 4k on the GC and 6k on the Xbox. Not exactly a success.

 

[User 406]

Hmmmm, this generation Japan gave me Dynasty Warriors.

JAPAN WINS!

 

[kaching]

Well, I agree they could have done a better job of fact checking, but why needlessly go out of your way to atteck a group of people when you could just address the issue at hand and seek to educate people on the way things really are? Granted, there are plenty of factual mistakes, but looking at Japan critically seems a far better way to go about it than to say "you game nerds are stupid and here is why."

Sorry, I shouldn't have suggested they trash the nerd masses instead of Japan. No one needs to be trashed here and I agree the best way to address the issues at hand is through critical *and objective* analysis. Trouble is, the author seems selective in his treatment of the Japanese scene. You yourself identified it as a "Anti-Japan" and a knee-jerk reaction to the conventional wisdom of nerd masses. If your perspective on this article is accurate, then it IS an indirect attack on a group of people, by way of attacking another group.

Personally, I think we don't look at Japan critically enough, especially those of us who take an active interest in the gaming community/industry.

I dunno - in the past year at least I've seen plenty of criticism of the Japanese gaming community/industry, both from internal and external pundits, and I'm only following such discussion casually. If anything, it seems that its the Western gaming community/industry that's getting the free ride in terms of critical analysis lately.

 

[border]

Interesting stuffs....

 

[dark10x]

Er, i think it sold there for the same reason it sold here.
"omg its a matorikusu geemu! suugooooooooooooooi!" *gets home* "mouuu nandayo kore."

Well, hell, it isn't as if that didn't happen in America as well...

The game sold on the idea of additional footage tied into the movie, but that doesn't mean everyone enjoyed the game. If you browse various software stores, Enter the Matrix can be seen clogging up many of the used game sections...

 

[P90]

What Sells, Who's Buying?
In Japan, 1997's big hits were Final Fantasy and Pokemon. 2003's big hits, six years later, were Final Fantasy, Pokemon, and Dynasty Warriors 4. Times, they change.

In 1998? In 1999? In 2000? In 2001? In 2002? In 2004? I guess those years don't count to the author.

 

[Ryu]

I think one point the author of this articles makes that is truly great is the fact that more game developers are finding it very difficult to actually look this behemothly expensive industry in the face and say "here's something people have never seen before, lets see if people buy it." It's just far too expensive to take a huge risk like that unless, as mentioned in the article, these new titles come within the first 1~2 years of the console's life. Otherwise, it faces getting lost in the fray of the sequals and big-names that always guarantee profits. Halo was a hotly anticipated game, but it was still a chance on a new franchise and there was always the possibility that it would be terrible. SSX is another example as mentioned in this article already. Ico is another game I'm hesistant to mention, but it seems to hold a special place in a lot of gamer's hearts.

The point is, I think developers really do need to take a much more creative role at the start of a consoles lifespan where the hardware library is very light and lots of people are looking for new games that test the hardware and present ideas that no one has seen before.

 

[Bizarro Sun Yat-sen]

In reality things are getting a lot better (outside of gaming that is)

Yeah, the Japanese economy has been out of recession for a while now, although it will fall back in to recession when the US does (sooner than you think)

 

[jedimike]

One thing the author forgets to mention is that an increasing number of the Japanese community thinks that playing games causes retardation.

 

[Alcibiades]

Finnaly found EtM's Japanese numbers. It sold 76k on the PS2, 4k on the GC and 6k on the Xbox. Not exactly a success.

I'd call that a bomb...

 

[SyNapSe]

One thing the author forgets to mention is that an increasing number of the Japanese community thinks that playing games causes retardation.

What?

 

[MassiveAttack]

Sitting in the largest conference room at GDC 2004 bursting at the seams with a crowd trying to catch a glimpse of Fumito Ueda during his ICO design seminar made it difficult to accept the notion that Japan has lost relevancy in the global market for games.

I agree with most of the points raised in the 1UP article. What is also true is that no one but the Japanese could have designed a game like ICO, a game which bears more relevancy in the world of game design and the elusive sense of atmosphere and emotion than almost any other game of the last several years.

 

[jedimike]

What?

It's in that CES report... I guess there is some high profile doctor that believes it and goes on talk shows and stuff. I forgot the percentage, but I think it is like 15% of the people believe this to be true. Of course these people certainly aren't going to let their children play games.

edit: spelling

 

[jooey]

One thing the author forgets to mention is that an increasing number of the Japanese community thinks that playing games causes retardation.

Seriously? what a bunch of retards.

 

[jarrod]

Cultural forces against games tend to get overblown. There was a similar line of thinking in the US during the 1980s (that videogames were somehow damaging to children's minds) yet the NES sold some 30 million units anyway.

 

[Miburou]

Japan has always had a big videogame market relative to its size. Not only does Japan have less than half the population of the US, but the percentage of younger people is also smaller.

The software to hardware ration has always been higher than anywhere else, and the hardware userbase is/was relatively bigger. Maybe things are just becoming normal?

Finally the timing of this article couldn't be worse, seeing as how Famitsu has reported that the market has been improving this year.

 

[open_mouth_]

That's what happens when you don't support one of the best consoles in the history of man, the Xbox.

F**kers.

 

[jarrod]

That's what happens when you don't support one of the best consoles in the history of man, the Xbox.

Don't you mean N64. At least it had a sizable marketshare.

 

[Necroscope]

It won't be long when most of the major cities in NA are as crowd as Asian cities where most people spend their time commuiting to work or lining up for services and food, cellphone games and various form of mobile serivces (i.e. wireless internet) will really take off. It is good to study what has become of the asian game industry before it happend to NA and Europe. As gamers age, we will play more and more games that can be easily pick-up and do not pose problems when the gamine session is being interrupt. Market for these types of games did not exsist before because we haven't had a generation that grow up with games and want to play games even though we have our kids and jobs. We should exploit that marekt further to supoort the industry. Personally, I could only find time to play up two epic games that consume more than 30 hrs per year and that number would probably go down to one per year in future. I love games and I still want compaines make these epic game but the industry needs to diversify and find more audience in order to support it. Speically, when cost of making these epic games are still skyrocketing.

i've been saying japan doesnt matter for the longest time now. leave them to their obsession with cell phones while europe and america bring on the goods. any japanese developer still interested in making good games is still welcome though.

 

[Mr_Furious]

I think the article is severely flawed. It sensationalizes certain points while ignoring many others that could harm the writer's various arguments. Also anyone that claims to predict another "industry crash" obviously has no clue why the original one occured in the first place.

 

[P90]

ICO, a game which bears more relevancy in the world of game design and the elusive sense of atmosphere and emotion than almost any other game of the last several years.

Sorry, but ICO ain't THAT special. It is a pretty game. The game is a snooze fest. It was Myst in 3D. yes, Ico had a moral to it, but so does Doom if you look for it. When someone blathers about "relevancy" in a video game, ya know the author has lost a firm grip on reality.

 

[ravingloon]

Sorry, but ICO ain't THAT special. It is a pretty game. The game is a snooze fest. It was Myst in 3D. yes, Ico had a moral to it, but so does Doom if you look for it. When someone blathers about "relevancy" in a video game, ya know the author has lost a firm grip on reality.

IAWTP. Except for the pretty part. The game definetly shows its PS one roots with the low resolution graphics. The higher quality the video output/television, the more painful the game looks. Ico and component = Eek!

 

[Journeywalker]

The segment of gamers that desire quick cellphone games may be increasing, but this segment will never be as profitable as traditional video games. Speaking for myself and my immediate friends, people assume that these games should be free. The internet provides a dearth of free 5-minute entertainment fixes, and I believe it would be difficult to convince people to pay more than pocket change for similar entertainment.

 

[MassiveAttack]

When someone blathers about "relevancy" in a video game, ya know the author has lost a firm grip on reality.

How firm a grip do you think is reasonable?

Thanks for taking things entirely out of context like a good fellow American.