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[Barzul]

Those consequences are irrelevant. They are not the true consequences of a sovereign country. If a person cheats on a test and feels guilty for the entire year or wets their pants, those were consequences they brought on themselves due to their irresponsible actions. When they are eventually caught, they will still be failed or expelled. They don't get compensation for having felt bad everyday or ruining a pair of pants.

I'm not sure what consequences you think they are paying since the legal authorities haven't had a chance to judge and assign consequences.

You've got some pretty weird perspectives. You probably actually think kicking out 11 million undocumented people is feasible or that a wall would work. Not sure but I get the feeling reading your post. I'm someone who has gone through the legal immigration process. I know what it actually involves and how convoluted it all is, it's a joke and completely inflexible, designed when America was a different country. Do I believe that undocumented immigrants should get citizenship? No bar the dreamers probably not. But legal status yes, you talk about consequences like everything in life is black and white, and you put so much stock in "the rules" (lol).

These people live the some of the harshest lives in this country, doing jobs prisoners don't even want to have, jobs Americans would not take even if the salaries were drastically increased but that we all benefit from. Yeah sure we buy those grapes and oranges and eggs they've picked under the hot California sun, but yeah kick out those fuckers they contribute nothing. They are basically a second or third class of person in this country, no labor rights, pay taxes they never file for and they have to mostly take every bit of abuse that comes their especially now, they have no recourse, you sound like you'd think this was a good thing. I'm not even sure what you equate "taking advantage" of the system to, can you actually elaborate how the do it successfully and maneuver all the checks that the American bureaucratic machine has in place to weed them out?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears you also actually think most legal immigrants would empathize with your arguments? My perspective is anecdotal obviously but majority of the immigrants I know that "came in the right way" would not. They know just difficult it is to immigrate to this country, without having to suffer 20+ years living in some sad ass shadow, I know I certainly couldn't do it and I know those guys make contributions. Sure kick out the violent criminal undocumented aliens, but the others, they have to be dealt with. Deporting 11 million people is not an endeavor the United States govt is equipped to handle nor should they be pondering because I don't believe they are equipped for the consequences either.

 

[sc0la]

If ICE is evil, what in your mind is the best solution to deal with a family such as yours which you described in your prior post?

this sounds fucking chilling btw

 

[ClosingADoor]

I don't think advocating for individual responsibilities is unfair. I also explained my position in regards to their thoughts on the rules themselves, not individual cases. I also disagree, you can be professional and violate the human rights of others, does that gives you a pass? How does the fact that you are being respectful absolves your individual responsibilities?

Because the people on the ground don't make the policy, they are just employees, they do not share the same amount of blame for this all. They don't have a total say in what they can or cannot do, since they need to follow the rules set out for them. Blame the people making the rules.

Of course these things do have limits. And here my thought about being professional and respectful comes into account. For example, when the Muslim travel ban got implemented suddenly, I don't fault the individual agents for needing to follow the rules. I do blame the ones that locked up people without food and water, who put people in handcuffs for no reason and things like that.

Yes, there is individual responsibility, but there is also a need to look at the issue realistically and realize that the people working don't make the rules, also have people relying on them having that job, and don't always have a full overview of the specific cases they are dealing with.

And well, you can't read peoples thoughts. Maybe these agents also think the current case is bullshit and rather not do it.

 

[numble]

What are you talking about? The person who follows every rule will not enter the country illegally. That is not a real scenario. Why is the person who is a law-abiding person trying to enter legally all of a sudden breaking the law and illegally entering a country? Why are you using that as your hypothetical scenario?

People who are denied visas don't all of a sudden throw their hands up in the air and say I'll take the next rowboat over and do it that way.

I can only say that you responded to my questions with your own questions which is a typical non-response.

You argue that undocumented immigrants face no consequences (unless caught).
Technically, the current enforcement of the law is that they will not deport you unless you have a criminal conviction.
My point is if you really believe that they face no consequences (unless caught, or even unless you have no criminal conviction) you would tell these people that they face no consequences.

But the truth is that there are actual consequences. If you leave the US, you likely cannot return.

You would not be able to use your degree for a white collar job and have a very limited options for work. You will not receive any benefits.

The reason that people that follow the rule do not overstay their visas and take up undocumented status is because they do not want to face the above consequences.

 

[boring accountant]

Do you think that person you know will get a visa after some people who entered illegally had their lives destroyed? You basically work on the assumption that two wrongs make one right. It sucks that your friend didn't get in, do you think he will feel vindicated after a bunch of people get kicked out? Do you think he sits at home thinking "Well, I didn't get in but at least people who lived there for 18 years or longer got kicked out!"
What a twisted way to see the world.

Why ask me questions and then put an answer in my mouth and tell me it's twisted. That is not how one presents a valid point.

The person denied the visa has absolutely no interest in whether the other person is removed or not. They will never know, nor will it have any effect on them.

All they care about is knowing in the back of their mind that they did everything they were supposed to and didn't win a visa lottery, while someone who didn't even play the game gets to live in the country.

These people on their visas also build lives here you know. They are students here for years and begin work. These are people following the rules who actually are kicked out of the country.

If that's how a world of morals and rules is supposed to work, then I question what is twisted.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Why ask me questions and then put an answer in my mouth and tell me it's twisted. That is not how one presents a valid point.

The person denied the visa has absolutely no interest in whether the other person is removed or not. They will never know, nor will it have any effect on them.

All they care about is knowing in the back of their mind that they did everything they were supposed to and didn't win a visa lottery, while someone who didn't even play the game gets to live in the country.

These people on their visas also build lives here you know. They are students here for years and begin work. These are people following the rules who actually are kicked out of the country.

If that's how a world of morals and rules is supposed to work, then I question what is twisted.

Would you want to see those rules applied to people already in the US - so have them deported -, or just new cases?

 

[boring accountant]

I can only say that you responded to my questions with your own questions which is a typical non-response.

You argue that undocumented immigrants face no consequences (unless caught).
Technically, the current enforcement of the law is that they will not deport you unless you have a criminal conviction.
My point is if you really believe that they face no consequences (unless caught, or even unless you have no criminal conviction) you would tell these people that they face no consequences.

But the truth is that there are actual consequences. If you leave the US, you likely cannot return.

You would not be able to use your degree for a white collar job and have a very limited options for work. You will not receive any benefits.

The reason that people that follow the rule do not overstay their visas and take up undocumented status is because they do not want to face the above consequences.

I am asking you questions because your posts make no sense. I need clarification to your previous posts. I am not asking you brand new, off topic questions.

One person cheats on a test and passes. One person studies hard and fails.

The person who passed has a great career immediately and the person who failed eventually does too but much later.

The fact that the person cheated is now found out.

Do you punish the person or not? That's really all it comes down to.

If you say no, then we will forever disagree. You believe the cheater should have his cake and eat it too as long as they never cheated again after the initial cheating. I believe the cheating must be punished regardless of how much time has passed or how much good behavior has accumulated.

 

[Cormano]

It sucks, but being undocumented does you no favors.

Yup, if he gets deported, in 2 years his daughter can sponsor him a green card, although it will be a long process.

 

[Barzul]

Yup, if he gets deported, in 2 years his daughter can sponsor him a green card, although it will be a long process.

If he gets deported I believe there's is bar on reentry for a period up to 10 years. I might be off though .

 

[numble]

I am asking you questions because your posts make no sense. I need clarification to your previous posts. I am not asking you brand new, off topic questions.

One person cheats on a test and passes. One person studies hard and fails.

The person who passed has a great career immediately and the person who failed eventually does too but much later.

The fact that the person cheated is now found out.

Do you punish the person or not? That's really all it comes down to.

If you say no, then we will forever disagree. You believe the cheater should have his cake and eat it too as long as they never cheated again after the initial cheating. I believe the cheating must be punished regardless of how much time has passed or how much good behavior has accumulated.

You are not answering my questions.

To your hypothetical situation, go ahead and give a failing grade on the test. One test usually will not determine how your career works. Can you imagine what would happen if one of your test grades was revoked today?

Your analogy is therefore poor does not apply. Undocumented status is not equivalent to cheating on a test. You do not get the same outcome as someone that did not cheat on a test and passed.

 

[constantstatic]

So he had the time in those 20 years to have kids and get a DUI and not bother to become a citizen? Sorry, but I've gotten a DUI and served jail time for my own mistakes. He could have served the same if he went through the process of becoming a legal citizen. No sympathy. Adios. 👋🏻

It sucks for the kids, but maybe don't break laws in a country you're not a legal resident in. His fault his kids will have to suffer through all this.

I have seen first hand people being ripped from family and friends. My uncle owns a large produce packaging plant and about 90% of his workers are migrants. Every summer ice would come and take away probably half the workers and it's was just awful seeing mothers and fathers taken away from families.

The funny thing is the people would be back again the next summer with new papers and a different name.

These are people trying to make a better life for themselves. They also generally do work that you people who complain about immigrants don't want to do. They are generally extremely hard working and good people.

I feel like there must be a better solution than just arresting them. This man spent a large portion of his life here why was he not put on a path to citizenship.

 

[UberTag]

How is this man a danger to his community? Why isn't ICE going after actual threats? Why are they tearing families apart?

Ugh. This is so gross.

This is what it means to "make America great again".
Terrorizing Latinos who've been contributing to American society for over two decades and ruining their lives JUST to exert power.
Ensure everyone you know and love recognizes this as true evil and that the Republican party is complicit in causing ALL of it. Even the good ones.

 

[thehypocrite]

Because the people on the ground don't make the policy, they are just employees, they do not share the same amount of blame for this all. They don't have a total say in what they can or cannot do, since they need to follow the rules set out for them. Blame the people making the rules.

Of course these things do have limits. And here my thought about being professional and respectful comes into account. For example, when the Muslim travel ban got implemented suddenly, I don't fault the individual agents for needing to follow the rules. I do blame the ones that locked up people without food and water, who put people in handcuffs for no reason and things like that.

Yes, there is individual responsibility, but there is also a need to look at the issue realistically and realize that the people working don't make the rules, also have people relying on them having that job, and don't always have a full overview of the specific cases they are dealing with.

And well, you can't read peoples thoughts. Maybe these agents also think the current case is bullshit and rather not do it.

I do agree with you that their level of responsibility is different, by I'll hold both responsible, not equally though, for that. The enablers through their rulemaking, and the enforcers for their actions.

Do you dispense the same sympathy for mobster enforcers? They have families too, traitors have families that depend on them as well, so does that justify their actions? Just cause they may be professional and respectful while doing it? I disagree.

 

[boring accountant]

Would you want to see those rules applied to people already in the US - so have them deported -, or just new cases?

All people who are currently in the country who do not have legal permission to be must be held accountable. All.

Never once did I say here that I support mass, indiscriminate deportation. But I do believe that every person must be held accountable. I believe that they should turn themselves into the appropriate authorities and begin figuring out a plan for whether they wish to correct their situation or leave the country. Of course that will never happen so it is up to the government to decide how it deals with offenders.

The current government is what the country has elected. The current government has its strategy. If the people disagree with it, they will have to elect a new government body. But I do not think anyone can possibly believe that any future government will offer amnesty as an option. Not even Obama did that.

 

[boring accountant]

You are not answering my questions.

To your hypothetical situation, go ahead and give a failing grade on the test. One test usually will not determine how your career works. Can you imagine what would happen if one of your test grades was revoked today?

Your analogy is therefore poor does not apply. Undocumented status is not equivalent to cheating on a test. You do not get the same outcome as someone that did not cheat on a test and passed.

The punishment is not just a failing grade. It is a rescinding of degree conferred. It is your professional licenses now revoked. It is the loss of your current employment and as a result your career. It is a reset button. You cheated and got away with it for a while. Time to pay the price. But perhaps if you admit that you cheated somewhere along the way we can work with you. Perhaps.

 

[thehypocrite]

I am asking you questions because your posts make no sense. I need clarification to your previous posts. I am not asking you brand new, off topic questions.

One person cheats on a test and passes. One person studies hard and fails.

The person who passed has a great career immediately and the person who failed eventually does too but much later.

The fact that the person cheated is now found out.

Do you punish the person or not? That's really all it comes down to.

If you say no, then we will forever disagree. You believe the cheater should have his cake and eat it too as long as they never cheated again after the initial cheating. I believe the cheating must be punished regardless of how much time has passed or how much good behavior has accumulated.

So if you aren't willing to change your mind why do you argue? That's not how this works. Just because you think something is right it doesn't make it so. You aren't engaging honestly in the dialogue.

 

[Cimarron]

This is heart breaking. But at the same time we can't have open borders. Immigration policy is a subject that no matter what you do people are going to be displeased. I guess on the bright side they didn't arrest him in front of the school? *shrug*

 

[ClosingADoor]

I do agree with you that their level of responsibility is different, by I'll hold both responsible, not equally though, for that. The enablers through their rulemaking, and the enforcers for their actions.

Do you dispense the same sympathy for mobster enforcers? They have families too, traitors have families that depend on them as well, so does that justify their actions? Just cause they may be professional and respectful while doing it? I disagree.

Mobster enforces are in an illegal business already, so no. That comparison makes little sense.

All people who are currently in the country who do not have legal permission to be must be held accountable. All.

Never once did I say here that I support mass, indiscriminate deportation. But I do believe that every person must be held accountable. I believe that they should turn themselves into the appropriate authorities and begin figuring out a plan for whether they wish to correct their situation or leave the country. Of course that will never happen so it is up to the government to decide how it deals with offenders.

The current government is what the country has elected. The current government has its strategy. If the people disagree with it, they will have to elect a new government body. But I do not think anyone can possibly believe that any future government will offer amnesty as an option. Not even Obama did that.

But that accountability is deportation, right? In what other ways would you hold them accountable. Let's say they turn themselves in, what is that plan you are talking about to correct their situation?

And the people can disagree with a ton of things, despite electing a government. People change their minds, governments implement policies in ways they did not think, governments make rules they didn't say they'd do, etc. Just because an election took place, doesn't mean everyone needs to just accept everything that government does.

 

[Hitmeneer]

All people who are currently in the country who do not have legal permission to be must be held accountable. All.

Never once did I say here that I support mass, indiscriminate deportation. But I do believe that every person must be held accountable. I believe that they should turn themselves into the appropriate authorities and begin figuring out a plan for whether they wish to correct their situation or leave the country. Of course that will never happen so it is up to the government to decide how it deals with offenders.

The current government is what the country has elected. The current government has its strategy. If the people disagree with it, they will have to elect a new government body. But I do not think anyone can possibly believe that any future government will offer amnesty as an option. Not even Obama did that.

Actually Obama did want to legalize a sizable amount of illegal immigrants as far as I know. The fact is, the people that have been in the USA for 10+ years and have kids born in the USA, should have a viable option to stay in the USA even though they have come to the USA illegally.
It is ok to have strict border control and immigration law, on new people getting in. But you can't kick people out after 20 years. That is inhumane.

 

[boring accountant]

So if you aren't willing to change your mind why do you argue? That's not how this works. Just because you think something is right it doesn't make it so. You aren't engaging honestly in the dialogue.

I'm not arguing with anyone. I'm having a conversation. It is important to see others' points on a topic so I can better understand it and formulate my own thoughts for future discussions. I am open to my mind being changed but I don't see a legitimate point on this topic to do so. Similarly I am not trying to change anyone's mind but if they gain a new perspective or talking point from the conversation then that's a positive too. Even if we disagree in the end we care about the situation and that's what matters.

 

[entremet]

Breaking up families is immoral.

 

[thehypocrite]

Mobster enforces are in an illegal business already, so no. That comparison makes little sense.

So destroying families should have no individual reprimand as long as is legal? So the Nazi Germany officers that were "following the rules" not be held accountable for their individual actions? After all, it was legal.

 

[shira]

Detaining a man taking his kids to school.

The very definition of bad hombre.

 

[norinrad]

The people doing this are scum of the earth. It's so sad to see families demolished like this.

They have been empowered by despicable human being who also happens to be the current president. Their evil ways has always been there. They have just taken it mainstream now.

 

[The Salt Life]

If I was working at ICE right now, I'd quit. Full stop. I couldn't allow myself to be behind what is going on right now. I couldn't sleep.

ICE should quit but unfortunately, I fear a lot of these people in ICE enjoy what they're doing.

Good that a bunch of midwest babies voted 3rd party though because both parties are the same. Hillary and Trump are the same!

Well if that's the case you would have never worked at ICE to begin with. They have a job and it's no secret what that job is. What's happening now is no different from what they did in the past. There has to be an agency for people who don't follow the proper protocols and procedures. Is it sad? Yes, but it's a risk he was willing to take. Why have rules if we are just going to let our emotions dictate everything?

 

[ClosingADoor]

So destroying families should have no individual reprimand as long as is legal? So the Nazi Germany officers that were "following the rules" not be held accountable for their individual actions? After all, it was legal.

You are comparing agents in a democratic government handing over people to the proper authorities, to an authoritarian regime with the intent to murder millions here. Like I said earlier: "Of course these things do have limits."

Let's say in a year or so, the way this is handled is deemed wrong and judges reverse this. Should the individual agents who arrested people be punished then to be held accountable?

You can disagree with the people doing this job, you can think they need to quit and find other work, or refuse to do their job. But the issues isn't as black and white.

Rules are always applied selectively. Context matters.

That call is not being made by the individual agents on the ground.

 

[Moosichu]

Well if that's the case you would have never worked at ICE to begin with. They have a job and it's no secret what that job is. What's happening now is no different from what they did in the past. There has to be an agency for people who don't follow the proper protocols and procedures. Is it sad? Yes, but it's a risk he was willing to take. Why have rules if we are just going to let our emotions dictate everything?

Rules are always applied selectively. Context matters.

 

[boring accountant]

Detaining a man taking his kids to school.

The very definition of bad hombre.

Just to speak on this point, they are detaining him for the action he committed 20 years ago. When he was indeed a bad hombre (I am not using this phrase seriously in case I need to clarify).

If you are saying that he was not a bad hombre when he entered the country illegally, then that is a larger issue that the immigration laws of the country don't agree with.

 

[Steejee]

Seems like you need to be a special kind of asshole to work as ICE.

 

[von Stroheim]

Ya know, sometimes you have to destroy families so Trump voters feel safe!

Is anyone with a heart in charge of this country?

Never mind, of course not.

 

[WedgeX]

Disgusting.

Immigration here should be so much easier.

We ought never be in the business of breaking up families to satisfy nativist desires.

 

[Apt101]

You have to be a special kind of heartless to be working at ICE.

There's deporting those who are clear dangers, and then there's trying to convince yourself that you're really the good guy in the movie when you rip families like these apart.

Really. These are the kinds of sinister people who will say, years from now when history frowns back upon them, "hey, I was just doing my job".

 

[Fantastapotamus]

The punishment is not just a failing grade. It is a rescinding of degree conferred. It is your professional licenses now revoked. It is the loss of your current employment and as a result your career. It is a reset button. You cheated and got away with it for a while. Time to pay the price. But perhaps if you admit that you cheated somewhere along the way we can work with you. Perhaps.

So you have never ever done anything "illegal" in your entire life. Not downloaded one song or game or movie, never drove through a red light, never speeded. Never cheated on a test, never ate an apple from a tree you don't own, never parked in a place where you shouldn't park, never drank alcohol before you were 18 (or whatever age it is in your country), never took drugs, nothing. An everyday Mother Theresa.

 

[thehypocrite]

I'm not arguing with anyone. I'm having a conversation. It is important to see others' points on a topic so I can better understand it and formulate my own thoughts for future discussions. I am open to my mind being changed but I don't see a legitimate point on this topic to do so. Similarly I am not trying to change anyone's mind but if they gain a new perspective or talking point from the conversation then that's a positive too. Even if we disagree in the end we care about the situation and that's what matters.

I understand. So what would be a legitimate point that could change your mind? In my case I need to see the evidence for the claims that are being made. Unfortunately here, there's a lot of anecdotes about people who did it the "right" way, but no evidence. Never mind that the right way isn't the same for everyone. For example, Cubans just needed to get to the USA and they got a lot of benefits, however other countries in equally compromised democratic systems couldn't get that same treatment. Likewise, the quotas for visas in the past were higher before than now, so the right way is even more limited. If you go back even further, the right way for everyone in the past was just to show up as they were open to everyone now the opposite is true. So, I'm not convinced of the right way claims cause they aren't fixed, are not a common standard and don't apply to everyone equally.
So sure, if you do it the right way there's benefits for you that aren't open to others, thus I consider that there's a payoff for your endeavors built into the system. Likewise if you don't there're already multiple penalties built into the system that penalize you forever, here's is a key disagreement between us in which you claim that this isn't the case, but the evidence doesn't support that claim you make and thus I remain skeptical of them. If you could volunteer the evidence for your claims I would review it in order to account for that.

 

[chromatic9]

When you have so many undocumented, the likelihood is if you had a full proof border system, many would've been allowed in legally as the workforce is needed. It's a silly waste of time and money to try and reverse 20 years of a failed system. These people will need to be replaced so its just an expensive merry-go-round.

Time would be best spent chasing actual criminals and starting from now for a tougher system.

 

[boring accountant]

So you have never ever done anything "illegal" in your entire life. Not downloaded one song or game or movie, never drove through a red light, never speeded. Never cheated on a test, never ate an apple from a tree you don't own, never parked in a place where you shouldn't park, never drank alcohol before you were 18 (or whatever age it is in your country), never took drugs, nothing. An everyday Mother Theresa.

Let's put aside that the infractions you listed are single time instances and not a perpetual state of illegality the way the topic at hand is. Let's say I've done all of those things. I am willing to pay the price for each. Fines, detention, jail.

Why are people who entered a country illegally not willing to pay the price of possibly being deported?

 

[thehypocrite]

You are comparing agents in a democratic government handing over people to the proper authorities, to an authoritarian regime with the intent to murder millions here. Like I said earlier: "Of course these things do have limits."

Let's say in a year or so, the way this is handled is deemed wrong and judges reverse this. Should the individual agents who arrested people be punished then to be held accountable?

You can disagree with the people doing this job, you can think they need to quit and find other work, or refuse to do their job. But the issues isn't as black and white.

I know what I did, yes. I'm using an extreme example to illustrate the flaws of your thinking. This is a valid thing that's done all the time to examine our assumptions.

You didn't answer the question posed in the post. Spare us the indignation and answer clearly. I also never said it was black and white, nevertheless I do expect a more reflective position from individuals, as I don't expect them to act as an automat just because "them the rules".

I think not legally, but I see it as moral failing not standing up against what they consider to be wrong just because they are collecting a paycheck for it.

 

[Karkador]

All people who are currently in the country who do not have legal permission to be must be held accountable. All.

Never once did I say here that I support mass, indiscriminate deportation. But I do believe that every person must be held accountable. I believe that they should turn themselves into the appropriate authorities and begin figuring out a plan for whether they wish to correct their situation or leave the country. Of course that will never happen so it is up to the government to decide how it deals with offenders.

The current government is what the country has elected. The current government has its strategy. If the people disagree with it, they will have to elect a new government body. But I do not think anyone can possibly believe that any future government will offer amnesty as an option. Not even Obama did that.

I don't think you get to have it all three ways. If you think "all" need to be held accountable, and you support this administration's way of doing it, you are agreeing with mass deportation, whether you realize that or not.

 

[The Salt Life]

Rules are always applied selectively. Context matters.

So they went after a guy they should have went after back then at the time of the incident occurred.

Question, do you believe we should just have open borders and no need to have people go through a process to come in here legally?

If your answer to that is no, I would expect you would want people to enforce laws when the law is broken.

 

[Hitmeneer]

Let's put aside that the infractions you listed are single time instances and not a perpetual state of illegality the way the topic at hand is. Let's say I've done all of those things. I am willing to pay the price for each. Fines, detention, jail.

Why are people who entered a country illegally not willing to pay the price of possibly being deported?

They should be send back, within reasonable time. After 20 years it is not reasonable anymore and you are doing more bad than good. That is the problem.

 

[boring accountant]

I don't think you get to have it all three ways. If you think "all" need to be held accountable, and you support this administration's way of doing it, you are agreeing with mass deportation, whether you realize that or not.

But I didn't say I support the current government or the current strategy. I simply do not believe in a blanket, retroactive amnesty. But if a future government proposed exactly that as a strategy, then I wouldn't fight in any other way than I've fought any other policy - by voting. If the vote passed in their favor, then that's what it is. On to the next issue.

 

[George Washington]

Horrible and truly saddening but we knew what was going to happen before the election if Trump won. Sadly there's not much that can be done in this situation.

Not only does he want the immigrants without documentation out but some Republicans are also advocating to revoke the birthright citizenships for their children.

 

[thehypocrite]

But I didn't say I support the current government or the current strategy. I simply do not believe in a blanket, retroactive amnesty. But if a future government proposed exactly that as a strategy, then I wouldn't fight in any other way than I've fought any other policy - by voting. If the vote passed in their favor, then that's what it is. On to the next issue.

So evidence doesn't matter to you? Just your beliefs?

 

[Mammoth Jones]

So they went after a guy they should have went after back then at the time of the incident occurred.

Question, do you believe we should just have open borders and no need to have people go through a process to come in here legally?

If your answer to that is no, I would expect you would want people to enforce laws when the law is broken.

I mean there's more to this subject than:

A) Open borders
B) Deport everyone now

There's some nuance to this shit. My argument is we need comprehensive reform of our entire immigration system from top to bottom.

Until then we should be directing resources to deal with violent criminals and ensuring they can't re enter the US once deported.

A dad dropping his kid off to school with a job isn't the problem.

"But he's breaking the law!!!" isn't justification to be to Deport without context. It's just breaking up families.

 

[N.Domixis]

Thank goodness my dad made our entire family citizens. Had no idea how hard and time consuming it was. Probably the best thing he did for us.

 

[ClosingADoor]

I know what I did, yes. I'm using an extreme example to illustrate the flaws of your thinking. This is a valid thing that's done all the time to examine our assumptions.

You didn't answer the question posed in the post. Spare us the indignation and answer clearly. I also never said it was black and white, nevertheless I do expect a more reflective position from individuals, as I don't expect them to act as an automat just because "them the rules".

I think not legally, but I see it as moral failing not standing up against what they consider to be wrong just because they are collecting a paycheck for it.

I clearly answered: "Of course these things do have limits." Taking is to extremes is not useful, since of course if their superiors say "shoot these people on sight" or whatever, the situation is different and dealing with that is different.

But that is not the situation we are dealing with. I don't see how and why we should blame individual agents in this situation.

You might see it as a moral failing, but you can not see into these peoples life. Should they quit then, when they need to provide for their family? When other cases they handle might actually be good ones that need dealing with? What exactly do you want them to do here?

But I didn't say I support the current government or the current strategy. I simply do not believe in a blanket, retroactive amnesty. But if a future government proposed exactly that as a strategy, then I wouldn't fight in any other way than I've fought any other policy - by voting. If the vote passed in their favor, then that's what it is. On to the next issue.

Nobody is saying the bolded should happen. You are making up scenarios in your head.

 

[Cormano]

Thank goodness my dad made our entire family citizens. Had no idea how hard and time consuming it was. Probably the best thing he did for us.

And expensive.

 

[boring accountant]

So evidence doesn't matter to you? Just your beliefs?

My beliefs are based on evidence I have encountered and interpreted. For all topics of the world. What specifically are you referring to in regards to this?

 

[Fantastapotamus]

Edit: You know what? Not worth my time.

 

[Tecnniqe]

Does context and the effect of being thrown out not factor into the deal at all in ICE?

One strike you're out regardless of when?