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[commedieu]

This problem has arisen because a mass of anti-intellectual people have deluded themselves into thinking all the legitimate sources are somehow corrupt - scientists and the major newspapers etc - and have fooled themselves into believing that the dark places on the web are the only ones seeking truth.

Because what these assholes want is not truth, but validation for their fucked up worldview. They see a world where most people are smarter than them, understand how to filter bad info from good, and in their envy and rage they create a world where only they have access to the truth.

They are pathetic, essentially.

Pathetic is the wrong word. This is dangerous. History literally shows its dangerous. Ah but there we are. Historians smchstorians...

 

[EatinOlives]

Part of the reason is the perception that the server was illegal in the first place. It was not. the only thing they could get her on was.

1.) Failure to maintain records for FOIA. Not even sure this is criminal, but it's what triggered the whole investigation.
2.) Negligence in handling classified material.

Shit, from page 11 of the FBI Report:

Right, I misspoke. It's negligence in handling classified material, not intent.

 

[Suikoguy]

Right, I misspoke. It's negligence in handling classified material, not intent.

Actually, I think it's both
I'm not an expert on the terminology.

She had to knowingly send classified information over non-classified systems.

Clinton reasonably stated that she relied on the expertise and experience of career State officials regarding classification designation.

 

[Balphon]

Come on, guys!!! Hillary CLEARLY compromised national security and should be in jail! She's CROOKED! Just ask Vince Foster! She's the Gaius Baltar of America!

I was just thinking the other day about how this election looks more and more like Baltar/Roslin by the day.

The Russians are the Cylons, naturally.

 

[VendettaRed07]

Does anyone even believe for a second that if Trump got in and won that he would actually properly handle classified information and go through the correct channels with the right clearances for every single document

Nobody would care if he actually did or not. If he didn't, it would just be the same excuses we've heard before. "He isn't a natural politician. He didn't mean to do anything wrong. He just doesn't understand how this stuff works!"

This story attaches to Hillary because it feeds exactly into the persona that people have of her. She is just like Nixon in how people see her. His quote on Reagan and how he navigated through Iran Contra sums it up really well.

Reagan will survive, because, when all is said and done, Reagan can get up and say 'I am an idiot and therefore I can't be blamed,' and everyone will agree. I never had that option.

 

[geomon]

Does anyone even believe for a second that if Trump got in and won that he would actually properly handle classified information and go through the correct channels with the right clearances for every single document

Nobody would care if he actually did or not. If he didn't, it would just be the same excuses we've heard before. "He isn't a natural politician. He didn't mean to do anything wrong. He just doesn't understand how this stuff works!"

This story attaches to Hillary because it feeds exactly into the persona that people have of her. She is just like Nixon in how people see her. His quote on Reagan and how he navigated through Iran Contra sums it up really well.

If we're going to lock up Hillary Clinton for 33,000 missing emails then surely we can give everyone in the George W. Bush Administration and the Republican National Committee life sentences for deleting 22 million emails.

 

[JackDT]

Really solid and measured response from Eric Holder, long time justice official and former Attorney General:

I began my career in the Justice Department’s Public Integrity Section 40 years ago, investigating cases of official corruption. In the years since, I have seen America’s justice system firsthand from nearly every angle — as a prosecutor, judge, attorney in private practice, and attorney general of the United States. I understand the gravity of the work our Justice Department performs every day to defend the security of our nation, protect the American people, uphold the rule of law and be fair.

That is why I am deeply concerned about FBI Director James B. Comey’s decision to write a vague letter to Congress about emails potentially connected to a matter of public, and political, interest. That decision was incorrect. It violated long-standing Justice Department policies and tradition. And it ran counter to guidance that I put in place four years ago laying out the proper way to conduct investigations during an election season. That guidance, which reinforced established policy, is still in effect and applies to the entire Justice Department — including the FBI.

The department has a practice of not commenting on ongoing investigations. Indeed, except in exceptional circumstances, the department will not even acknowledge the existence of an investigation. The department also has a policy of not taking unnecessary action close in time to Election Day that might influence an election’s outcome. These rules have been followed during Republican and Democratic administrations. They aren’t designed to help any particular individual or to serve any political interest. Instead, they are intended to ensure that every investigation proceeds fairly and judiciously; to maintain the public trust in the department’s ability to do its job free of political influence; and to prevent investigations from unfairly or unintentionally casting public suspicion on public officials who have done nothing wrong.

Director Comey broke with these fundamental principles. I fear he has unintentionally and negatively affected public trust in both the Justice Department and the FBI. And he has allowed — again without improper motive — misinformation to be spread by partisans with less pure intentions. Already, we have learned that the importance of the discovery itself may have been overblown. According to the director himself, there is no indication yet that the “newly discovered” emails bear any significance at all. And yet, because of his decision to comment on this development before sufficient facts were known, the public has faced a torrent of conspiracy theories and misrepresentations.

...

The director said in July that he chose to take that extraordinary step in response to intense public interest. During my 12-year service in the Public Integrity Section and as attorney general, I worked on some of the most politically sensitive cases that our country saw. The additional public scrutiny such investigations provoke makes it even more important that we handle those cases consistently and responsibly. That is exactly why guidelines are put in place: so that Justice Department leaders, including FBI directors, will not substitute their own judgments and opinions for reasoned, fair, coherent and time-tested policy.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...3a007c77bb4_story.html?utm_term=.a725f1afc3cd

 

[Rentahamster]

Yo people who hate Hillary are motherfucking blinded by delusion. How do these people function in the day to day? Must be horrible seeing shadows everywhere where none exist.

I'm not implying that you're wrong, so don't take my following comment that way - Do you hate Trump with the same magnitude as those who hate Hillary? Do you consider the possibility that your extreme dislike of a candidate can effect you in the same reality-distorting ways that it effects others?

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

I'm not implying that you're wrong, so don't take my following comment that way - Do you hate Trump with the same magnitude as those who hate Hillary? Do you consider the possibility that your extreme dislike of a candidate can effect you in the same reality-distorting ways that it effects others?

I don't think my dislike for Trump would blind me into voting for someone like Grayson or Weiner if the Dems were foolish enough to nominate them. Republicans, and some other people, have let their hatred of Clinton let them somehow believe that Trump being in a position of such power is even remotely a good idea.

 

[EatinOlives]

I'm not implying that you're wrong, so don't take my following comment that way - Do you hate Trump with the same magnitude as those who hate Hillary? Do you consider the possibility that your extreme dislike of a candidate can effect you in the same reality-distorting ways that it effects others?

I think that actually depends on the candidates themselves. Trump is an extremely terrible candidate morally speaking, and he purposefully goes out of his way to be the most bombastic, least informed, and worst prepared candidate possible. People hate Trump because of what he says, and what he says is 100% documented and confirmed to be real.

The hate against Hillary is largely smoke and mirrors. That's not to say that people are not allowed to dislike her, but it's difficult to sympathize with the radicals who say that she's the devil incarnate when the evidence simply isn't there. One CAN say that Trump is a virulent piece of work that has an extremely thin skin and holds sexist beliefs. All of those are opinions are strongly based on verifiable fact (Twitter wars, overreacting during debates, "grab 'em by the pussy"). Hillary "starting world war 3", however, is not.

 

[Amir0x]

I'm not implying that you're wrong, so don't take my following comment that way - Do you hate Trump with the same magnitude as those who hate Hillary? Do you consider the possibility that your extreme dislike of a candidate can effect you in the same reality-distorting ways that it effects others?

Bias me, sure. Delude me? No. I've always been very brutally honest about the figures i choose to support or not. I am a pragmatist. I voted for Obama twice and yet can run off a laundry list of shit that positively infuriates me about him and his decisions. I hated Bush but can list plenty of things he did I appreciated.

I am voting Hillary, yet can probably write a book about characteristics i hate in her or decisions she stupidly made. I am the guy known for being always critical, even for videogames i love. It is practically the one unifying aspect of my character. I fucking hate circle jerks.

Trump is a uniquely terrible candidate for president so in this specific case i am treating him like the piece of shit he and his actions have demonstrated he is. Ive been on GAF for many elections, see how i treated the other Republicans. Harsh, but not as an affront to our Democracy.

Similarly, what Comey did was unprecedented MULTIPLE times, and demonstrably for partisan gain.

Unique situations call for unique responses.

 

[EmpressInYellow]

I'm not implying that you're wrong, so don't take my following comment that way - Do you hate Trump with the same magnitude as those who hate Hillary? Do you consider the possibility that your extreme dislike of a candidate can effect you in the same reality-distorting ways that it effects others?

Personally: I do consider that, which is why I make an effort to evaluate things outside of that framework as much as I'm able to. There have been lines of attack against Trump where I said, "Eh...I dunno, that seems like a stretch." or "I'd really need more evidence before I'd believe that."

That is not a process that many of the Clinton haters apparently choose to go through.

 

[commedieu]

Really solid and measured response from Eric Holder, long time justice official and former Attorney General:




https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...3a007c77bb4_story.html?utm_term=.a725f1afc3cd

The call is coming from inside the Bureau.

 

[Dead Man]

Really solid and measured response from Eric Holder, long time justice official and former Attorney General:




https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...3a007c77bb4_story.html?utm_term=.a725f1afc3cd

Yeah, that's solid. Nice work, Holder. You're still a wanker though.

Edit: no he's not, don't know who the hell I was thinking of. I mean, he's a bit wrong sometimes but he's not a total loss.

 

[Veelk]

.

 

[teruterubozu]

.

Well, we'll see if the media can bring back those horrible Trump things in the next 8 days to tamper the e-mail stuff, but I doubt it.

 

[Unknown One]

if you say it enough times, people will believe it

It works for a huge chunk of the Republican demographics. GOP lie to them all the time and they believe every word.

 

[Zombine]

Really solid and measured response from Eric Holder, long time justice official and former Attorney General:




https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...3a007c77bb4_story.html?utm_term=.a725f1afc3cd

Good men don't do what Comey did to intentionally try to swing the election. There's no way to paint this as a mistake in any way.

 

[teruterubozu]

Good men don't do what Comey did to intentionally try to swing the election. There's no way to paint this as a mistake in any way.

True but what's done is done. They need to put the focus back on Trump with 8 days left. Comey is a massive distraction. Otherwise it's emails emails emails for the remainder.

 

[Diablos]

True but what's done is done. They need to put the focus back on Trump with 8 days left. Comey is a massive distraction. Otherwise it's emails emails emails for the remainder.

Even if they do it's still going to be emails emails emails because the media won't let go of this. Comey changed the dynamic of the final days of the race. It's infuriating.

 

[streetsahead123]

Bottom line: no matter what Hillary did with her e-mails, she'a still infinitely more qualified than any of the other candidates.

 

[D4Danger]

This problem has arisen because a mass of anti-intellectual people have deluded themselves into thinking all the legitimate sources are somehow corrupt - scientists and the major newspapers etc - and have fooled themselves into believing that the dark places on the web are the only ones seeking truth.

Because what these assholes want is not truth, but validation for their fucked up worldview. They see a world where most people are smarter than them, understand how to filter bad info from good, and in their envy and rage they create a world where only they have access to the truth.

They are pathetic, essentially.

.

This is outrageous. I'm starting to believe the FBI is now an exclusive strong arming tool of the fucking Republican Party and right wing news media.

Especially considering the shining goose egg that is the Trump Foundation target. Embarrassing on every level. Destroy it all.

 

[Amir0x]

Bad example since this exists in the vacuum of the FBI Director demonstrably trying to influence the election, violating the Hatch Act and it is not even the first unprecedented partisan action he did this season. Evidence and not, ya know, filling the void with desired truths.

Next. *yawn*

 

[Rentahamster]

I don't think my dislike for Trump would blind me into voting for someone like Grayson or Weiner if the Dems were foolish enough to nominate them. Republicans, and some other people, have let their hatred of Clinton let them somehow believe that Trump being in a position of such power is even remotely a good idea.

I think that actually depends on the candidates themselves. Trump is an extremely terrible candidate morally speaking, and he purposefully goes out of his way to be the most bombastic, least informed, and worst prepared candidate possible. People hate Trump because of what he says, and what he says is 100% documented and confirmed to be real.

The hate against Hillary is largely smoke and mirrors. That's not to say that people are not allowed to dislike her, but it's difficult to sympathize with the radicals who say that she's the devil incarnate when the evidence simply isn't there. One CAN say that Trump is a virulent piece of work that has an extremely thin skin and holds sexist beliefs. All of those are opinions are strongly based on verifiable fact (Twitter wars, overreacting during debates, "grab 'em by the pussy"). Hillary "starting world war 3", however, is not.

Bias me, sure. Delude me? No. I've always been very brutally honest about the figures i choose to support or not. I am a pragmatist. I voted for Obama twice and yet can run off a laundry list of shit that positively infuriates me about him and his decisions. I hated Bush but can list plenty of things he did I appreciated.

I am voting Hillary, yet can probably write a book about characteristics i hate in her or decisions she stupidly made. I am the guy known for being always critical, even for videogames i love. It is practically the one unifying aspect of my character. I fucking hate circle jerks.

Trump is a uniquely terrible candidate for president so in this specific case i am treating him like the piece of shit he and his actions have demonstrated he is. Ive been on GAF for many elections, see how i treated the other Republicans. Harsh, but not as an affront to our Democracy.

Similarly, what Comey did was unprecedented MULTIPLE times, and demonstrably for partisan gain.

Unique situations call for unique responses.

Personally: I do consider that, which is why I make an effort to evaluate things outside of that framework as much as I'm able to. There have been lines of attack against Trump where I said, "Eh...I dunno, that seems like a stretch." or "I'd really need more evidence before I'd believe that."

That is not a process that many of the Clinton haters apparently choose to go through.

Thanks for the insight into your trains of thought. I find that with heated topics, like politics and especially religion, many people tend to get caught in cognitive dissonance. The problem with knowing though, is that if you were succumbing to it, you wouldn't even realize it. That's why I find it comforting to see if people at least are aware of the possibility that they could be wrong. I try to keep that in mind all the time.

What I take away from this whole situation is that I saw Republicans pissed off and Democrats happy when Comey first dropped the investigation. Now, it's the opposite, with Republicans happy and Democrats pissed off. The people who called Comey "in the tank" or "has integrity" have switched sides completely in the span of 3 months. Does someone like him turn from a patriot into a hack fraud just like that? To a lot of people in the sidelines, it looks like the deciding factor in interpreting this news for a lot of people highly correlates to what team you belong to.

But maybe I haven't been following the details as closely as I should be. But that is the rub, too. Neither does most of the voting public.

 

[tuxfool]

What I take away from this whole situation is that I saw Republicans pissed off and Democrats happy when Comey first dropped the investigation. Now, it's the opposite, with Republicans happy and Democrats pissed off. The people who called Comey "in the tank" or "has integrity" have switched sides completely in the span of 3 months. Does someone like him turn from a patriot into a hack fraud just like that? To a lot of people in the sidelines, it looks like the deciding factor in interpreting this news for a lot of people highly correlates to what team you belong to.

But maybe I haven't been following the details as closely as I should be. But that is the rub, too. Neither does most of the voting public.

Democrats definitely weren't happy about the manner in which he dropped the investigation, this notion that people were singing his praises then is utter revisionism.

That actually adds to the problem he faces.

 

[Amir0x]

As far as I was concerned, for me i focused not on the fact Comey was essentially forced to say he cant recommend indictment (since no sane prosecutor could win that case, there was no intent) than the fact he sat up there and thought we wanted his fucking opinion on how careless she was. Which was yet another unprecedented partisan abuse of his position.

That is what i focused on at the time. It is now beyond any doubt Comey is compromised due to his political views.

 

[Slayven]

As far as I was concerned, for me i focused not on the fact Comey was essentially forced to say he cant recommend indictment (since no sane prosecutor could win that case, there was no intent) than the fact he sat up there and thought we wanted his fucking opinion on how careless she was. Which was yet another unprecedented partisan abuse of his position.

That is what i focused on at the time. It is now beyond any doubt Comey is compromised due to his political views.

Yeah shit was grandstanding of the highest order.

 

[Lord Frieza]

Thanks for the insight into your trains of thought. I find that with heated topics, like politics and especially religion, many people tend to get caught in cognitive dissonance. The problem with knowing though, is that if you were succumbing to it, you wouldn't even realize it. That's why I find it comforting to see if people at least are aware of the possibility that they could be wrong. I try to keep that in mind all the time.

What I take away from this whole situation is that I saw Republicans pissed off and Democrats happy when Comey first dropped the investigation. Now, it's the opposite, with Republicans happy and Democrats pissed off. The people who called Comey "in the tank" or "has integrity" have switched sides completely in the span of 3 months. Does someone like him turn from a patriot into a hack fraud just like that? To a lot of people in the sidelines, it looks like the deciding factor in interpreting this news for a lot of people highly correlates to what team you belong to.

But maybe I haven't been following the details as closely as I should be. But that is the rub, too. Neither does most of the voting public.

This is a really well thought version of 'both sides are the same' argument, but much like the less thought out version is both disingenuous to the context of the situations in question, as well as erroneously shews certain facts to fit the narrative trying to be pushed.

 

[Toxi]

"But when push comes out to shove, will you vote for Kanye West over Ted Cruz?"

 

[Pyrokai]

What is the update to all of this since Friday? I've tuned it out because my heart can only take so much.

 

[entremet]

Comey getting hit hard by the major papers today.

 

[BSsBrolly]

"But when push comes out to shove, will you vote for Kanye West over Ted Cruz?"

I'd vote for a pile of dog shit over Ted Cruz.

 

[Rentahamster]

This is a really well thought version of 'both sides are the same' argument, but much like the less thought out version is both disingenuous to the context of the situations in question, as well as erroneously shews certain facts to fit the narrative trying to be pushed.

This isn't meant to be a "both sides are the same" argument. It's a commentary on the perception of reality to a largely polarized and uninformed electorate. No need to be defensive about a point that I'm not even pushing.

 

[RustyNails]

"But when push comes out to shove, will you vote for Kanye West over Ted Cruz?"

I'd even vote for Drake over Ted Cruz.

 

[A Serious Man]

What is the update to all of this since Friday? I've tuned it out because my heart can only take so much.

FBI has obtained the warrant to search the emails and is trying to clear them as quickly as possible. It's still unclear whether any of them are even related to Hillary.

Comey is getting blasted from both sides for handling this the way he did. Some in the government have already asked for his resignation.

 

[Elandyll]

What is the update to all of this since Friday? I've tuned it out because my heart can only take so much.

It's been revealed that the possible link to the Clinton email server is a portion of an alleged 650.000 emails found on Anyhony Weiner's laptop, which allegedly are Huma Abedin emails which may or may not have any link to Clinton's private server.
The FBI had to wait for authorization to look at these emails which were not supposed to be on this laptop, and reportedly now they have it.
It has also ben revealed that Comey was advised not to send the letter by the AG, and on Sunday Harry Reid sent a scathing letter basically accusing Comey of having broken the FBI longstanding neutral stance, and tradition of non comments about sensitive cases, specialy within 60 days of an election.
Reid also implied he asked to review if Comey actually broke the law in doing so (Hatch act).

 

[gutter_trash]

I'd even vote for Drake over Ted Cruz.

Drake is born in Canada.... oh wait a minute

 

[rjinaz]

This is a really well thought version of 'both sides are the same' argument, but much like the less thought out version is both disingenuous to the context of the situations in question, as well as erroneously shews certain facts to fit the narrative trying to be pushed.

That's what rentahamster does. He is always asking the questions in defense of the Trump side. I never have seen him straight out say he supports Trump, but he's always begging the questions. He's either a "both sides" or an "Independent" as far as I can tell. Either way it's clear he sees himself above it all as much as he goes meta.

My point is, it's a bit annoying him calling out people for their bias when his posts are almost always the same type in these threads. He has his own bias.

This isn't meant to be a "both sides are the same" argument. It's a commentary on the perception of reality to a largely polarized and uninformed electorate. No need to be defensive about a point that I'm not even pushing.

Sure ok.

 

[GaimeGuy]

I can't believe Comey told Congress "WE MAY HAVE FOUND SOMETHING!!!!" before even obtaining a warrant to see what they had.

 

[gutter_trash]

Thanks Obama,

protip to future Democrat Presidents: don't point Republicans or extend any Republicans to anything

 

[Amir0x]

Thanks Obama,

protip to future Democrat Presidents: don't point Republicans or extend any Republicans to anything

Yeah we could have all done without Obama reading Team of Rivals six times or whatever
-_-

 

[Rentahamster]

I never have seen him straight out say he supports Trump,

Because I don't?

he's always begging the questions.

That's not what that phrase means.

Either way it's clear he sees himself above it all as much as he goes meta.

I'm in Denver. I'm high all right.

My point is, it's a bit annoying him calling out people for their bias

Read my first post again. I was asking Ami about what his own thoughts on how he tries to stay objective, because I remember back in the day when he was still a mod, he waded in the trenches damn near everyday dealing with stuff like that over in gaming.

 

[Barzul]

Thanks Obama,

protip to future Democrat Presidents: don't point Republicans or extend any Republicans to anything

Yup all these years of obstruction have proven that they're so buried in their partisan ploys they don't deserve anything. Clinton is not as naive as '08 Obama.

 

[rjinaz]

FBI has obtained the warrant to search the emails and is trying to clear them as quickly as possible. It's still unclear whether any of them are even related to Hillary.

Comey is getting blasted from both sides for handling this the way he did. Some in the government have already asked for his resignation.

Are they trying to clear things up? I was under the impression that Comey was likely to stay mum on the issue regardless?

 

[Pyrokai]

FBI has obtained the warrant to search the emails and is trying to clear them as quickly as possible. It's still unclear whether any of them are even related to Hillary.

Comey is getting blasted from both sides for handling this the way he did. Some in the government have already asked for his resignation.

It's been revealed that the possible link to the Clinton email server is a portion of an alleged 650.000 emails found on Anyhony Weiner's laptop, which allegedly are Huma Abedin emails which may or may not have any link to Clinton's private server.
The FBI had to wait for authorization to look at these emails which were not supposed to be on this laptop, and reportedly now they have it.
It has also ben revealed that Comey was advised not to send the letter by the AG, and on Sunday Harry Reid sent a scathing letter basically accusing Comey of having broken the FBI longstanding neutral stance, and tradition of non comments about sensitive cases, specialy within 60 days of an election.
Reid also implied he asked to review if Comey actually broke the law in doing so (Hatch act).

Thank you for the update. This is all so crazy. Let's hope they search them quickly!

 

[RustyNails]

Yup all these years of obstruction have proven that they're so buried in their partisan ploys they don't deserve anything. Clinton is not as naive as '08 Obama.

There was a wikileaks email in which Hillary complained about Obama's kumbaya strategy. She said it will not work. That made me more excited than usual.

 

[Lord Frieza]

This isn't meant to be a "both sides are the same" argument. It's a commentary on the perception of reality to a largely polarized and uninformed electorate. No need to be defensive about a point that I'm not even pushing.

I wasn't being defensive actually, but I think you're reaction says quite a bit about what you were trying to say, though.

 

[danthefan]

So it seems, even though it appears to be absolutely nothing to do with communications that she made, that this has done damage to Clinton? I mostly follow the polls via 538 and she's dipped a bit in recent days.

Surely the FBI director has to resign. What the hell was he thinking.

 

[jWILL253]

This election has just been sloppy.

In past elections, this kind of corruption was only unraveled in very extreme situations and even then, someone else had to find the corruption. Now, people aren't even trying to hide it. I would've respected Comley more if he lied and said he found something substantial. But instead, he basically admits there's no real reason to do this outside of the possibility that Hillary might have done something. This is like if a nigga walked into a store, got accused of stealing by the manager, and the police question him - only to find no evidence of theft or other wrongdoing - and the manager goes "Well, arrest him anyways because he could have stole it."

Fucking shit. Trump, Comley... this is just sloppy. The corrupt and stupid are just letting it all hang out. No dogwhistles, no subtlety, no nuance to the fuckery... just pure, undistilled fuckery. And the worst part is, those sloppy fuckers might actually pull it off, whatever "it" is, thanks to a large portion of the country who are also corrupt and stupid.

 

[Rentahamster]

I wasn't being defensive actually, but I think you're reaction says quite a bit about what you were trying to say, though.

Then why call my point "disingenuous"? I'm not trying to deceive anyone. Kinda harsh.

That's the word choice that colored my interpretation. If you used "disingenuous" in its, err, benign form, then nevermind.