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February Wrasslin' |OT| Did somebody not get what they wanted?

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S

Serpentine

Banned
NXT was kind of a nothing show this week, it had a 3v3 Womens Tag, a rematch, a promo segment that at some point involved HHH, and a Wyatt Family squash match.

So, like an episode of RAW, only not nearly as long or excruciating (but with 100% more CJ Parker).
 
K

krae_man

Member
UberTag said:
Would love to see more Canadians get a chance to make it big in the WWE now that Vince has decided to disrespect Christian with a blue dot gimmick and Santino is making sequels to terrible 18-year-old Sinbad movies with Larry the Cable Guy.

We need some credibility insurance because you know Vince isn't going to give Sami Zayn a fair shake even if he gets over huge due to being a scrawny frenchman who doesn't have "the look" of a champion. At least if he still had his mask he could move merchandise... but he doesn't. Instead he'll take over the Ziggles role after Ziggles finally leaves.

I also like the idea of Steen and Elgin trying out together because it gives Elgin the opportunity to look good by comparison if he shows up in shape and passes the tryout and Steen doesn't.
Click to expand...


There's always Jinder Mahal...

Oh who am I kidding.
 
A

antonz

Member
They showed this stamina stuff on Total Divas with Vincent. He couldn't get passed the stamina stuff so they told him get lost.
 
jobber

jobber

Would let Tony Parker sleep with his wife
Why can't there be another season of Tough Enough filmed inside the developmental center? I want to see what BS they make people do.


money making draw that couldn't handle the stamina test

implying that CM POINK is fat
 
F

FallingEdge

Member
somedevil said:
From the Observer:



Steen in the WWE? That would be insane and what are the odds him actually showing up in shape for the tryout?
Click to expand...

BgPXMOeCEAMtyAF.jpg
Click to expand...

Kevin Steen ‏@FightSteenFight

What the...WHERE AM I?!?! pic.twitter.com/MPkEbTPLBz
 
A

antonz

Member
It's doubtful anyone on the roster could even begin to keep pace with the way they were trying to portray the stamina stuff.
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
Observer looks at Search Rankings for 2013:
When charting out the data for 2013 based on Internet activity and searches, one thing became clear immediately. For pro wrestling, boxing and MMA, we are seeing the “middle class” disappear. The stars are as big as ever, and in the case of the top five, bigger than ever.

But it’s the guys who were not quite the top guys, but who people took to as big stars who could be put in the position to draw that are becoming a dwindling breed.

This system, which I learned from people in boxing who used it to see how over prospects on the rise were and noted it did a great job of predicting what shows would and wouldn’t do ratings, and almost perfectly predicted PPV numbers, has actually in a number of cases been better at predicting PPV numbers than the companies’ original first data itself. But like with every system, nothing is foolproof. Women get more attention than their drawing power is the obvious example, although there are only three women between the two forms of entertainment this looks at (Ronda Rousey, A.J. Lee and Miesha Tate) who have any real top star cache. The TV show Total Divas, most notably, made Nikki Bella, Eva Marie and Natalya into much bigger stars, but the rest of the cast did not pick up any significant interest from the show. Also, if you look at the chart, when it comes to making new stars, this was not a very good year.

As far as how to view this chart, the idea that if someone is No. 18 and another guy is No. 19, that is not significant at all. It doesn’t mean 18 is the bigger star or more potentially marketable. No. 18 vs. No. 30, on the other hand, is a significant difference. Guys higher than their push does show the promotion is squandering potential, because this measures a level of interest of people already have in the character in some form, because the idea is to get people interested and you push to increase it. If it’s already there, you don’t have to push as hard to get it there. Being lower than one’s push indicates that their push hasn’t taken off at the level it should have.

With the Internet being the prime form of information, it’s the best measure of general public interest, and it has proven to coincide well with the PPV business and drawing. If anything, it would not at all measure the hardcore supporter interest because that number is a small percentage of the fan base and total population. In a sense, if someone appears far more over than their ranking, that means as a general rule their strength is to the hardcore fan base, but it doesn’t translate as much into the general public.

That doesn’t necessarily mean it can’t, because it may not be there because of a lack of push, but it only measures total results from 2013. A notable case is A.J. Lee. Her segments on Raw declined more than increased, but she was high on the list. That would indicate that her segments declined because the segments themselves were uninteresting or considered throwaways, or the overall picture of what she’s in isn’t strong. You can say she’s high because of the pretty girl thing, but the WWE is filled with women marketed that way and she’s the only one with a high ranking. People higher than expected would generally indicate untapped potential or simply more name value (as with legends) that leads to interest with the general public, but nostalgia is a different issue that usually works best with limitations.

Guys who have made major leaps or major drops does indicate that their stock has significantly risen or fallen.

The numbers here are for the United States only (2012 ranking in brackets):
1. Floyd Mayweather Jr. (3)
2. The Rock (4)
3. Canelo Alvarez (29)
4. Anderson Silva (8)
5. John Cena (1)
6. Manny Pacquiao (2)
7. Ronda Rousey (11)
8. George St-Pierre (12)
9. CM Punk (6)
10. Hulk Hogan (5)
11. HHH (14)
12. Jon Jones (9)
13. Chris Weidman (-)
14. Randy Orton (13)
15. Undertaker (18)
16. AJ Lee (20)
17. Robert Guerrero (-)
18. Miesha Tate (-)
19. Brock Lesnar (7)
20. Steve Austin (19)
21. Chael Sonnen (15)
22. Big Show (17)
23. Brandon Rios (-)
24. Cain Velasquez (26)
25. Nick Diaz (24)
--------- (Below only wrestling stars)
26. Daniel Bryan (42)
28. Ric Flair (35)
29. Dave Batista (16)
30. Shawn Michaels (31)
31. Rey Mysterio (21)
32. Ryback (25)
33. Jeff Hardy (22)
36. The Miz (38)
38. Chris Jericho (33)
41. Dolph Ziggler (33)
42. Vince McMahon (54)
43. Sheamus (36)
44. Eva Marie (-)
45. Mark Henry (47)
47. Nikki Bella (-)
49. Natalya (-)
54. Kurt Angle (53)
55. Mickie James (-)
57. Cody Rhodes (55)
58. Sin Cara (30)
60. Goldust (-)

Also: Fandango, Sting, Urijah Faber, Bray Wyatt, Alberto Del Rio, Marcos Maidana, Liz Carmouche, Victor Ortiz, Roman Reigns, Dean Ambrose, Brie Bella, Big E Langston, Nate Diaz, Carlos Condit, Dan Henderson, Roy Nelson, Sergio Martinez, Kofi Kingston, Cat Zingano, A.J. Styles, Kevin Nash, Frank Mir

When I talk about the lowering of the middle class, the top 15 or so appear to have the same level of stardom as the top 15 of any year. The big drop-off comes in the late 20s and all the way down from there, where the level of stardom is lower than the ranking would have been in any other year. It’s evidenced by high placings from that point on of a lot of people who really didn’t stay the same or gain, but appear to have done so in the rankings, like everyone on that list practically.

While WWE with The Shield made new stars in the past year, The Shield is over as an entity but the individuals don’t have that name identity individually, although Roman Reigns did pick up at the end of the year and Dean Ambrose has some. Seth Rollins has prelim wrestler level name identity. Bray Wyatt came toward the middle of the year and since this measures the entire year, not the finish of the year, it’s not really indicative of where he stands now.

When it comes to actually making a new star, boxing did the best with Canelo Alvarez in the build to the Floyd Mayweather Jr. fight, although he was getting on a roll at the end of 2012.

UFC beat out WWE, in the sense that Chris Weidman and Miesha Tate became genuine stars who played a part in drawing monster-sized revenue. While they were not the two key people in the UFC 168 number, neither were they just people along for the ride. The Weidman number in particular is important for UFC with Silva and St-Pierre leaving, because it showed he did get name recognition based on the weird circumstances of his two wins. And the reality is, Silva vs. Weidman I did do better than Silva vs. anonymous opponent he’ll thrash had been doing. Tate, unfortunately, is very popular but there’s not a lot they can do with it, because UFC can’t make a superstar out of a second-tier level fighter. Tate is their second most popular and well known female fighter based on her rivalry with Rousey, but you can’t go any farther with it, and she’s got no grudge match, nor any opponents past being a familiar face on the undercard. Others that you would hope would do well, most notably Daniel Cormier, doesn’t make the list and hasn’t broken through even though he’s had a lot of face time on television. Also breaking through to a degree on the list were Johny Hendricks and Anthony Pettis, with Hendricks having the close loss to GSP in a major fight, and Pettis winning the lightweight title.

Benson Henderson did pick up steam from headlining several shows on FOX, but not so much that he became a big time real star. Demetrious Johnson did not when positioned the same.

That also was borne out in the ratings, as Henderson without the belt in January drew a significantly better TV number than Johnson with a title defense against his top contender did in December.

Nick Diaz would have finished top ten, as his PPV numbers would have indicated, but he dropped off the face of the Earth for the most part in mid-March.

It should be noted in Cena falling from No. 1 to No. 5, that while his numbers did fall more than 15% in the last year, the ranking was due to those above him shooting way ahead, with Johnson likely doing so based on movie work, Mayweather and Alvarez for their fight, and Anderson Silva due to the shock and circumstances of his losses which actually made him a bigger and more recognized star, plus the broken leg visual although that came so late in the year its affect on an annual number isn’t going to be all that large.

Brock Lesnar is an interesting case, because this ranking bears out that he’s also meant less from a PPV perspective. He actually meant less this year working three major shows and a lot of WWE TV than he meant in 2011, when he was on the sidelines almost all year due to diverticulitis. In this case, it did show that, and you can argue the reasons, just not the end result, he has significantly dropped as a star with a company that can control the creative and the outcomes from a company that could not. The fact Lesnar could lose badly in high profile fights with UFC and still be a draw in WWE, but could not sustain that level in WWE, says volumes about the creative in WWE and not just star making, but star retaining.

Ryback was another one who clearly had public appeal, but is not used at that level. There is a ring work limitation, but somehow ring work limitations meant nothing for decades in WWE, when you had guys who connected. Jeff Hardy continues to live off his WWE fumes from 2009, but is falling, as a No. 30 ranking this year is a lot lower than a No. 22 would have been the prior year.

Miz and Ziggler are two others not used to the level of their popularity. Miz is one of those guys who has to be a heel. For all his loss of confidence, and being beaten like a drum, he’s also positioned and not used to the best of his marketability. Ziggler should surprise nobody, but his numbers will fall this coming year most likely, since they were propped up by January through April, when he lost all the time but there was still the feeling he was about to win the title. Henry may be the most underutilized guy on the roster, since the only time he was pushed, a PPV main event coming off his great retirement interview segment, he did what only Punk, Lesnar and Ryback have been able to do in recent years, which is genuinely pop a “B” show number.

When it comes to actually making a new star this year, WWE succeeded with The Shield as a unit and Wyatt, and Reigns is a lock to break out from the Shield role. But the perception they’ve done a better job than UFC in this regard, but that really hasn’t turned out to be the case.

Of the top 50, 21 came from WWE, 14 from UFC, seven from boxing, five were essentially retired former stars, two came from TNA (both of whom made their names elsewhere) and one from Bellator (although spent the early part of the year in UFC). In 2012, the breakdown was 19 from WWE, 15 from UFC and eight from boxing. In 2011, it was 16 from UFC, 14 from WWE and six from boxing.

Overall U.S. interest level in WWE vs. UFC vs. TNA (based on 100% total market share)

Year-WWE-UFC-TNA (numbers are percentages)
2005-72-20-7
2006-59-33-9
2007-59-33-8
2008-50-40-10
2009-43-46-11
2010-44-45-12
2011-49-42-9
2012-58-35-7
2013-58-36-7

Essentially, UFC had growth spurts in 2006 and 2009, and fell in 2011 and 2012, while holding essentially steady last year. The fall coincides with an injury riddled 2011 and the move from Spike to FOX.

TNA showed growth from 2008 to 2010, peaking in 2010 with the signing of Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Jeff Hardy and Rob Van Dam. However, it fell greatly after the first year. The past two years the popularity of the product is at the same level as in 2005, as far as market share goes. That’s scary in a lot of ways. In 2005, UFC was just getting on TV and not as popular, and TNA was on Fox Sports Net early in the year, then off TV for several months on a national basis, before hooking up with Spike at the end of the year. So after all this time on Spike, actual product interest is lower than in a year where they only had Spike for the last few months and for months had no national presence on television. And that coincides with the fact they were doing stronger on PPV in 2005 than in 2013, even with the years of national TV.

Because of increases in television rights fees, UFC is financially healthier, but there is a clear loss in mainstream interest, and you didn’t need those figures to tell you that. Another key is that, unlike WWE, which has a steady level of interest, which does rise with the big shows but because of television several nights a week, is there on a daily basis, UFC popularity and interest is show-related. It is at a relatively low level and then spikes the day of shows, based on the magnitude of the event. WWE will have some of that with the big PPVs but not nearly as much, which coincides with UFC’s big shows generally being more successful than WWE’s. However, with far more live events, UFC’s popularity, which spikes with live events, has declined, not increased. In addition, as UFC becomes a more mature sports property, its coverage has greatly increased. A big UFC show gets far more mainstream sports coverage today than in years past, yet this has also resulted in less mainstream interest. One would think it would be the opposite, because the general rule of thumb is the more mainstream coverage, the more interest.

In addition, this year had several unique things that should have spiked brand interest, including Chris Weidman’s win over Anderson Silva due to the circumstances, and debut of women fighters in the company, fewer major injuries and a better quality of marquee PPV matches that resulted in stronger numbers.

With WWE, the percentages vary largely based on UFC’s up-and-down popularity. There in reality is a slow but steady decline from 2007 to the present. This also tells you that the UFC decline is more pronounced than those percentages indicate. But like UFC, even with a decline in general public interest, they are in financially better shape.

The unique situation is based on a change in market forces. Historically, the idea was to increase popularity as much as possible, and avoid overexposure. Today it’s more tricky. It appears when it comes to the general public, overexposure has hit and interest is declining. However, revenue, instead of being tied to product popularity, is tied more to product output, the more product out there, the more money you can make. The revenue is about providing content. It’s an entirely different game and as long as the money is there for content, it’s a much safer business model. If something changes, it becomes a scary model because then you’ve dropped in overall popularity. With both companies, the big shows are going to always remain close to the top but the decline will come at the rank-and-file show level. Similarly, the big stars remain big stars, but the secondary stars are declining in interest level.

What makes that different is if the decline becomes such that people aren’t willing to pay the same money for the content. WWE numbers are not declining at the level for that to be worrisome, as with more competition, going forward, I expect all sports properties except the NFL to decline in interest for all the same reasons. As long as they get the rights fees for being on the air and are considered premium programming, they also have a changing economic base. It’s when you’re a secondary property and lose your deal or get moved to bad time slots, canceled, or there isn’t interest when your contracts are up because the interest decline has been so great, that’s the long-term issue. The UFC decline comes at the same time they are building sports stations for FOX, and the two are tied in. If the sports stations become another ESPN, or at least a challenger, they may be taken up with it, and if they become a failure and the decision is made not to spend big money on them, the reverse could happen.

World Wide Chart (Brackets = 2012 standing)
1. Dwayne Johnson (2)
2. Anderson Silva (4)
3. Floyd Mayweather Jr. (8)
4. John Cena (1)
5. George St-Pierre (3)
6. Canelo Alvarez (-)
7. Manny Pacquiao (5)
8. Undertaker (23)
9. HHH (14)
10. Randy Orton (10)
11. CM Punk (6)
12. Ronda Rousey (-)
13. Brock Lesnar (7)
14. AJ Lee (-)
15. Jon Jones (13)
16. Hulk Hogan (9)
17. Rey Mysterio (16)
18. Big Show (17)
19. Chris Weidman (-)
20. Steve Austin (-)
21. Brandon Rios (-)
22. Cain Velasquez (-)
23. Vitor Belfort (-)
24. Amir Kahn (11)
25. Vitali Klitschko (-)
26. Juan Manuel Marquez (-)
27. Jeff Hardy (24)
28. Miesha Tate (-)
29. Robert Guerrero (-)

We didn’t include Gina Carano this year since she’s far removed from MMA, and is an actress, but she would have finished at No. 20 worldwide and No. 18 in the U.S.
Click to expand...

I have highlighted the active wrestlers only in the lists.
 
K

KissVibes

Banned
Sweeney Tom said:
bahahahahhaha
Click to expand...

FUCKING SERIOUSLY?

Randy is a bigger "pussy" name than Antonio.

I don't think her gimmick is going to get over this way. Yeah, she's totally a good wrestler but making her a heel and have her be endearing even in her heel-ness like in NXT, would've done more for her.

Woulda been cool to see Summer Rae turn face (for a bit, at least) and let them have matches together. Maybe have Fandango do some talking in front of people and not just backstage. He's funny and a good wrestler too. WWE running his theme into the ground was the worst.
 
B

British Monsoon

Member
So Steen's just a fat-ass with no chance, but Husky gets a free pass because his dad's IRS? Psssh.

Also, if they think 'Antonio' doesn't sound tough enough, why not just shorten it to Tony? You could have Zeb insist he has to Americanize his name. Plus, Tony Cesaro sounds like a gangster, if ever they want to do a random gimmick change somewhere down the line.
 
H

Hasney

Member
Bootaaay said:
So Steen's just a fat-ass with no chance, but Husky gets a free pass because his dad's IRS? Psssh.

Also, if they think 'Antonio' doesn't sound tough enough, why not just shorten it to Tony? You could have Zeb insist he has to Americanize his name. Plus, Tony Cesaro sounds like a gangster, if ever they want to do a random gimmick change somewhere down the line.
Click to expand...

He was a tank with a Ferrari engine!!
It doesn't matter if that would never actually work
 
M

Mr. Sam

Member
Reading this thread sometimes, I wonder if some of you are mentally ill or just putting it on. Living the WrassleGAF gimmick if you will.
 
T

Toki767

Member
The environmental hippie on NXT is a heel now?

I wonder if WWE will feel like NXT needs to be more consistent with the main WWE storylines once it airs on the Network. I doubt they're going to want to see everyone cheering the Wyatts like they're faces when they're trying to put them in a program against Cena leading up to Mania.
 
S

Showaddy

Member
Toki767 said:
The environmental hippie on NXT is a heel now?

I wonder if WWE will feel like NXT needs to be more consistent with the main WWE storylines once it airs on the Network. I doubt they're going to want to see everyone cheering the Wyatts like they're faces when they're trying to put them in a program against Cena leading up to Mania.
Click to expand...

Pretty much. Wyatt's & Paige are faces in NXT but they're instant heels on Raw/Smackdown. Similarly Bo is never going to come up as a heel; partly because his gimmicks inflexible as fuck but also because Vince doesn't want a walking John Cena parody up where people might actually see him.
 
I

Ithil

Member
Regarding Prince Devitt at the TNA show on 1/29 in Dublin, it was described to us that Devitt gave them the respect of listening, but it was never going to happen. If he was to leave New Japan, it would only be for WWE. Devitt is booked into the New Japan Cup tournament next month. We haven’t gotten word he signed a new contract, however.
Click to expand...

Dude is really taking this to the finish line. I can't imagine NJPW are going to let him work without a contract for much longer so he's gonna have to pick NJPW or WWE pretty soon.
 
R

Rafa=FedKilla

Banned
Devitt is not leaving, even though he has accomplished all he can in Japan. Japan's size stigma is bigger than Vince's.




I'm convinced that The E will not leave NBC family of networks. They can't go to Fox Sports because other sporting events will superceede it and have to switch times or networks whenever a sporting event is going on. Fox Sports 2 has virtual no viewership. It also does not fit with Fx and FXX brand strategies. Disney? The E will never air on ESPN networks, Lifetime or Disney XD. Discovery? Nope. Winner and still world champion: USA Network.
 
L

Lambda Pie

Banned
UWF - NOBUHIKO TAKADA vs KAZUO YAMASAKI - 1990

i2iisdRfoLWfy.gif

time for another match from the japanese Cena. bout start with some fancy strikes.

izeXGEWY05mES.gif

oh shit, it happens sometimes. shoot kick to the balls. Takada is given time to recover. since UWF is based around real combat, low blows are no DQ if accidental.

i3LxgbPQGNsH4.gif

intense battle in the clinch. Takada reverses a leg trip takedown attempt into a slam. good stuff.

ib0VvJTjxNUGd9.gif

another clinch, both man working each other with body shots. Takada powers up and takes Yamasaki down with a slam.

if1GmGx0NvAeA.gif

Yamasaki uses the ropes to escape and takes a breather. he's now working Takada with some stiff kicks to the mid section, really hard hits. het hold of Takada's leg and does a beautiful and smooth transition to a kneebar.

ipguCf4OhEtg.gif

Takada counter the kneebar attempt and escape the submission. Takada now on top of Yamasaki working on a choke. armbar attempt by Takada but yamasaki breaks the hold using the ropes. both men are up, Yamasaki throwing high kicks. Takada moves in close, scores the takedown and tries a rear naked choke but gets reversed into an ankle lock, og which he escapes using the ropes. what the fuck... Yamasaki locks the leg and strikes with headbutts, followed by a guillotine attempt. what a crazy dude.

ifDTiif1HNmLg.gif

Takada breaks the submission and the men are trading blows again. takedown and armbar attempt by Takada that leads to nothing. Yamasaki is up and raining down blows on Takada whom's driven to canvas and given a 8 count. Yamasaki tries a rolling thunder but misses which allows Takada to lock in a neck crank. Yamasaki resists but has to use the ropes to escape. Yamasaki had enough and goes for the kill, multiple kicks but get caught on the ropes. HIGH KICK BY TAKADA!! Yamasaki is down for the count. this was an amazing striking spot, goddamn.

ibeg4add3dvgob.gif

Yamasaki stands up but gets immediately rocked again by a flurry of Takada's open palm strikes and spinning kics. another count, Yamasaki seems finished but he answers the call. SHIT, Yamasaki with a flying open palm uppercut! opens up Takada's defence and sends him down for the count.

iyUBt0TNQ6P2r.gif

Takada is up. these dudes are doing an amazing job of selling the beatings. close distance skirmish, Takada hits a mid kick, transition into side suplex and finishes up with a kneebar.

ibkbbEJsTyqOHX.gif

Yamasaki with the rope escape. what a crazy match. now it's Yamasaki on top! captures the leg, vicious strikes and hits back with a kneebar of his own!

ib1G6ZvMOutFW5.gif

this is it, both men are up but they can barely stand. stiff mid kick from Yamasaki sends Takada down. Takada comes back! headbutt and kick to face sends Yamasaki down. both men are exhausted, next move wins! Takada with big open palm strikes, single takedown and half boston crab is locked in! transition into full boston crab and Yamasaki taps, Takada gets the W. what a fuckin match, one of the finest shoot styles matches i've ever seen, amazing, i can't recommend this match enough, especially if you're new to shoot-style.

https://legitshook.squarespace.com/straight-shooters-with-lambda-piscium
 
I

Ithil

Member
TNA is a "last resort", not just because of their low pay, terrible management, etc, but because signing with them pretty much kills any chance of you signing with WWE unless you had worked for WWE beforehand.
 
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