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February Wrasslin' |OT| Did somebody not get what they wanted?

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T

Terrabyte20xx

Junior Wrestlemania XXX Champion
Alucard said:
I have to say, I've definitely noticed the WWE focusing on having more in-ring action, especially on Smackdown. We're in the midst of a new era, and I for one am excited for it. If only Batista wasn't main eventing Wrestlemania...
Click to expand...

I give it 1 1/2 years before we truely see the new era bear fruit. The transition is almost over.

BIONIC-ARRRMMM!! said:
Honestly, I think there's too much in-ring action compared to story segments these past couple of weeks. I for one like the shitty stories they come up with, and would like to see them advanced a bit every week. They should cut down on the repeated and filler matches, and do some story instead.

That's not to say I don't like the in-ring action, that's obviously not true. But almost literally nothing happened this past two weeks story-wise. It's pretty crazy.
Click to expand...

I kinda agree. Honestly, would it kill them to let talent cut some old school green screen promos? It would give them more personality, along with being different to what we've gotten used to.
 
A

Alucard

Banned
BIONIC-ARRRMMM!! said:
Honestly, I think there's too much in-ring action compared to story segments these past couple of weeks. I for one like the shitty stories they come up with, and would like to see them advanced a bit every week. They should cut down on the repeated and filler matches, and do some story instead.

That's not to say I don't like the in-ring action, that's obviously not true. But almost literally nothing happened this past two weeks story-wise. It's pretty crazy.
Click to expand...

When wrestling is at its best, it does a lot of its storytelling inside the ring. Like The Wyatts and The Shield staring each other down. Of course, you need to slip some promos in there and some face-to-face confrontations. However, when things are booked well and every match feels like it means something, there's nothing better.

ROH's main event this past week had some great in-ring storytelling, and it didn't need any promos to set it up.
 
S

strobogo

Banned
I can't count how many times I've gone on 50+ miles not only with no towns around, but no exits or services of any kind. I'm powering through tomorrow. 14 hours until I'm home and I'm doing it. Sick of hotels/motels/inns, especially ones that are so clearly marked up for no reason other than you have no other options. I am ready to be home and in my own bed. And making gifs! This country is pretty rad, though. I started in 4 degree, snow covered Indiana, went through forests, the rad as fuck desert, the rad as fuck mountains, plains, farm lands, beaches. Pretty much every climate and setting in the country over the last week. I don't really want to drive through it again, but I would love to fly over the South West and Colorado/Utah areas in a helicopter.
 
M

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Alucard said:
Hmm, I don't remember that. I just recall being annoyed by Ziggler's booking and with Cena still winning championships. We also had the Funkadactyls and the genesis of Sweet T. And...yeah.

Just feels different this year.

-Reigns
-Rollins
-Ambrose
-Bryan
-Cesaro
-Ziggler
-Seamus
-Bray Wyatt
-Usos

...lots to be excited about.
Click to expand...

More importantly Cena's year of hell is now long gone, he's all healed up and firing on all cylinders with no Punk or Rock to get in his way so he can return to the top of the scene as a plucky young underdog against that list of also rans.
 
S

Singularity42

Member
The WWE is definitely in a transition. They have a ton of young talent and guys that can really work their asses off. The issue right now is helping those guys find characters that can mesh with their personalities and get them over. In a few years the product has a chance to be amazing but it's going through growing pains right now. Guys are starting to find their voice and gimmicks that will go over with the crowd. The real issue is creative not letting a lot of the talent express themselves, too much scripting not enough improv. But Cena was right when talking to Austin guys are too afraid to go off script in fear they are kicked out the door because then it's back to the shit money of the indie circuit. This where no competition is hurting the overall health of the business as a whole. If guys had a real number 2 company to goto maybe they would be confident enough to crank their personalities up to 11.
 
S

Showaddy

Member
Alucard said:
Hmm, I don't remember that. I just recall being annoyed by Ziggler's booking and with Cena still winning championships. We also had the Funkadactyls and the genesis of Sweet T. And...yeah.

Just feels different this year.

-Reigns
-Rollins
-Ambrose
-Bryan
-Cesaro
-Ziggler
-Seamus
-Bray Wyatt
-Usos

...lots to be excited about.
Click to expand...

It's HHH's master plan. Flood the roster with so much talent that the shitty booking becomes less relevant.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Cena also addressed the television direction shifting to more in-ring action. "Our product is moving toward more action and less talk," he said. "I think it is good in respect to the international markets because the promos, if you're in Japan if you're in China if you're in Mexico if you're in India, they don't necessarily speak the language. And if we don't have a good translation team over there... If I turn WWE on with no volume and I see two guys in the ring going at it I understand it, no matter where I'm at. Sometimes the talking stuff, from a global standpoint, isn't where it needs to be. Plus, I think more action gives the guys who can actually work more opportunities."
Click to expand...
This is why he doesn't understand the business. You need more talk and less wrestling on TV, because you need to get people to want to see the wrestling on the PPV (as well as wear them out less on TV, because house shows are then where long matches happen.)
 
A

Alucard

Banned
Singularity42 said:
The WWE is definitely in a transition. They have a ton of young talent and guys that can really work their asses off. The issue right now is helping those guys find characters that can mesh with their personalities and get them over. In a few years the product has a chance to be amazing but it's going through growing pains right now. Guys are starting to find their voice and gimmicks that will go over with the crowd. The real issue is creative not letting a lot of the talent express themselves, too much scripting not enough improv. But Cena was right when talking to Austin guys are too afraid to go off script in fear they are kicked out the door because then it's back to the shit money of the indie circuit. This where no competition is hurting the overall health of the business as a whole. If guys had a real number 2 company to goto maybe they would be confident enough to crank their personalities up to 11.
Click to expand...

Cena cuts some pretty vanilla promos and hasn't taken a chance as a character since...I don't know when. It's ironic hearing him speak like that, but it doesn't mean he's not correct. By the same token, creative is cutting these guys off at the knees by giving them so many restrictions.
 
M

McNei1y

Member
Alucard said:
Hmm, I don't remember that. I just recall being annoyed by Ziggler's booking and with Cena still winning championships. We also had the Funkadactyls and the genesis of Sweet T. And...yeah.

Just feels different this year.

-Reigns
-Rollins
-Ambrose
-Bryan
-Cesaro
-Ziggler
-Seamus
-Bray Wyatt
-Usos

...lots to be excited about.
Click to expand...

You're probably right. Plus we have Rhodes and Goldust really killing it in the Tag Circuit. It does seem like we have a lot more decently booked matches compared to last year. And I guess I put to much weight on this match last year:

Cena vs CM Punk
 
R

Reneledarker

Banned
strobogo said:
I can't count how many times I've gone on 50+ miles not only with no towns around, but no exits or services of any kind. I'm powering through tomorrow. 14 hours until I'm home and I'm doing it. Sick of hotels/motels/inns, especially ones that are so clearly marked up for no reason other than you have no other options. I am ready to be home and in my own bed. And making gifs! This country is pretty rad, though. I started in 4 degree, snow covered Indiana, went through forests, the rad as fuck desert, the rad as fuck mountains, plains, farm lands, beaches. Pretty much every climate and setting in the country over the last week. I don't really want to drive through it again, but I would love to fly over the South West and Colorado/Utah areas in a helicopter.
Click to expand...

Next time cross the border and come to Tijuana. I will take you to a taco dinner and to watch some bad lucha libre.

And to the lucha libre bar:

http://www.santaleyendabar.com/galeria-tijuana.php
 
S

Shadowlink

Member
I don't mind if they don't add all of Raw and Smackdown on the WWE Network on launch since we're getting all PPV events on that day. I'd love it if they did eventually add the classic Raw and Smackdown episodes. I want to see The Rock throw Stone Cold off a bridge again.
 
S

Singularity42

Member
kirblar said:
This is why he doesn't understand the business. You need more talk and less wrestling on TV, because you need to get people to want to see the wrestling on the PPV (as well as wear them out less on TV, because house shows are then where long matches happen.)
Click to expand...

There's a balance that needs to be met. When you fill 3 hours of live programming with matches that don't mean shit or don't advance storylines people get bored. If you have hours of all talk and no action people get bored. It's fine line.

Pontless matches are meant for Heat, Velocity, Main Event, or whatever shitty weekend programming the WWE is airing nowadays. RAW and Smackdown NEED stories and build up. Sure guys can tell a story in the ring but it means nothing without some build up or heat or hell even a reason for the match in the first place.
 
A

Alucard

Banned
McNei1y said:
You're probably right. Plus we have Rhodes and Goldust really killing it in the Tag Circuit. It does seem like we have a lot more decently booked matches compared to last year. And I guess I put to much weight on this match last year:

Cena vs CM Punk
Click to expand...

There were some great matches last year, and Punk was part of at least three of them. (vs. Cena, Undertaker, Lesnar)

I've been pretty bored with the WWE product, but the little nuggets of goodness here and there keep me coming back.
 
M

Man God

Non-Canon Member
strobogo said:
Bad kind of goes along with lucha libre.

It's truly amazing that Cesaro legitimately got a giant swing over in 2014, to the point where people get pissed when it is countered or doesn't happen at all.
Click to expand...

Last time anyone used it before him in the WWF was...late Attitude era women's matches!
 
S

Singularity42

Member
Alucard said:
Cena cuts some pretty vanilla promos and hasn't taken a chance as a character since...I don't know when. It's ironic hearing him speak like that, but it doesn't mean he's not correct. By the same token, creative is cutting these guys off at the knees by giving them so many restrictions.
Click to expand...

Totally agree. Cena is handcuffed just like the rest of the guys though.But for different reasons He is the Hogan of his era at this point. Hulk cut the same promo for years. Cena is a company man and beholden to Vince and the rest so he is afraid to go off script. So he is setting a shit example to the rest of the roster and yet saying they need to go off script, show their personality, take a chance. When he hasn't taken any chances on the mic in ages.
 
N

Net_Wrecker

Member
BIONIC-ARRRMMM!! said:
Honestly, I think there's too much in-ring action compared to story segments these past couple of weeks. I for one like the shitty stories they come up with, and would like to see them advanced a bit every week. They should cut down on the repeated and filler matches, and do some story instead.

That's not to say I don't like the in-ring action, that's obviously not true. But almost literally nothing happened this past two weeks story-wise. It's pretty crazy.
Click to expand...

I've been saying this for months. There are way too many boring TV matches on these days. 3 hour Raws just made it worse. Save the 4 and 5 star matches for PPVs. TV should be spontaneous, energetic, and free flowing programming used to establish characters + feuds. Yes a lot of that would stem from matches, but it doesn't all have to be long matches with commercial breaks that just lead to flat endings anyway.
 
S

Shadowlink

Member
Daniel Bryan, Cesaro, The Shield, The Wyatts,
and Strobogo
are all going to have awesome runs. The new generation seems a lot better than it was a few years ago.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Net_Wrecker said:
I've been saying this for months. There are way too many boring TV matches on these days. 3 hour Raws just made it worse. Save the 4 and 5 star matches for PPVs. TV should be spontaneous, energetic, and free flowing programming used to establish characters + feuds. Yes a lot of that would stem from matches, but it doesn't all have to be long matches with commercial breaks that just lead to flat endings anyway.
Click to expand...
Matches with commercial breaks used to be a rarity. They should have stayed that way.
 
B

BIONIC-ARRRMMM!!

Member
Net_Wrecker said:
I've been saying this for months. There are way too many boring TV matches on these days. 3 hour Raws just made it worse. Save the 4 and 5 star matches for PPVs. TV should be spontaneous, energetic, and free flowing programming used to establish characters + feuds. Yes a lot of that would stem from matches, but it doesn't all have to be long matches with commercial breaks that just lead to flat endings anyway.
Click to expand...

Yup. I mean I know that all of us will be devastated by less Kofi vs. Ziggler matches, but I think we can manage.
 
S

Showaddy

Member
Singularity42 said:
Totally agree. Cena is handcuffed just like the rest of the guys though.But for different reasons He is the Hogan of his era at this point. Hulk cut the same promo for years. Cena is a company man and beholden to Vince and the rest so he is afraid to go off script. So he is setting a shit example to the rest of the roster and yet saying they need to go off script, show their personality, take a chance. When he hasn't taken any chances on the mic in ages.
Click to expand...

I'll start giving a damn about what Cena's saying if he puts over Wyatt at Mania, none of this "Managed to hang with Cena!" crap.
 
S

strobogo

Banned
Remember the last new generation? Chris Masters, Carlito, JoMo, Miz, Snitsky, Gunner Scott, Heidenriech, Shelton. Lashley, Orlando Jordan, Rene Dupree.


Getting back to the idea of Cena not being planned to be THE guy, I think it was clear that Orton was ho they wanted in that spot from the start. He got the big push before Cena and Bateaster, got the title before them...and then HHH cut him down so low that it took Orton 5 years to recover. That made no sense to me since Orton was one of their handpicked guys and HHH himself picked Orton to be in Evolution. Worst HHH burial of all time in my opinion. I think they had high hopes for Shelton as well, but dude just couldn't make that connection with crowds except for the mini feud with HHH. And the truly bad promos.
 
M

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Another fun Katie Vick fact: It could have been Katie Cena instead and he would have been the one brought up to join evolution and feud with Kane had he won the WHC. They did eventually think he was too far along though and went with this other dude whose name was floating around, Scottie Vick. Apparently he was too out of shape though and when they brought that doughboy up they released him immediately.

So Cena could have died a death by being connected with one of the worst gimmicks of all time in a parallel punk verse.
 
B

BIONIC-ARRRMMM!!

Member
strobogo said:
Remember the last new generation? Chris Masters, Carlito, JoMo, Miz, Snitsky, Gunner Scott, Heidenriech, Shelton. Lashley, Orlando Jordan, Rene Dupree.
Click to expand...

I literally hated all of these chumps. Shelton was decent though I guess, but the rest are trash.

Current roster is the strongest it's been since the Attitude Era imo, real high hopes for them.
 
N

Net_Wrecker

Member
Reneledarker said:
If we go to 2 hours we will still get del Rio vs random jobber, that would not change.

At least with 3 hours matches like Cena vs Cesao can get PPV time.
Click to expand...

Cena vs. Ceasaro should be on a PPV is the point.

Cena vs. Cesaro on Raw should end with Orton interfering out of frustration after ~7 minutes (because he should've lost to all the competitors by now) and failing to RKO either one of them because they tossed him out of the ring. Then Cena goes to shake Cesaro's hand as a "we'll have a great match next time" gesture only to receive an uppercut to the face because Cesaso don't play dat. Elimination Chamber build + possible slow build to a feud down the line between Cena/Cesaro.

Then as Raw looks to be finishing with another 1v1 between Chamber participants, Orton interferes in that match as well, but fails to get away because ALL the participants come out to the ring and corner him. Right when they're about to get their hands on him, he ducks, and Sheamus clotheslines the wrong person leading to a shove, then another shove, then another shove, then BRAWL OUTTA NOWHERE. Meanwhile Orton manages to slither away up the ramp mostly unscathed as the other 5 guys beat each other senseless WE GOTTA GO SEE YOU ON THUNDER

#booking
 
A

Alucard

Banned
slightconfuse said:
It's crazy that WWE employs Dutch mantel and Paul heyman and yet creative is shit
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say it's "shit," but it's certainly not consistently good enough.

Watching yesterday's Raw. Kane just said "Congratulations, Daniel...on your hard fart victory." LOL. That's what it sounded like to me, anyway.
 
R

Reneledarker

Banned
Net_Wrecker said:
Cena vs. Ceasaro should be on a PPV is the point.

Cena vs. Cesaro on Raw should end with Orton interfering out of frustration after ~7 minutes (because he should've lost to all the competitors by now) and failing to RKO either one of them because they tossed him out of the ring. Then Cena goes to shake Cesaro's hand as a "we'll have a great match next time" gesture only to receive an uppercut to the face because Cesaso don't play dat. Elimination Chamber build + possible slow build to a feud down the line between Cena/Cesaro.

Then as Raw looks to be finishing with another 1v1 between Chamber participants, Orton interferes in that match as well, but fails to get away because ALL the participants come out to the ring and corner him. Right when they're about to get their hands on him, he ducks, and Sheamus clotheslines the wrong person leading to a shove, then another shove, then another shove, then BRAWL OUTTA NOWHERE. Meanwhile Orton manages to slither away up the ramp mostly unscathed as the other 5 guys beat each other senseless WE GOTTA GO SEE YOU ON THUNDER

#booking
Click to expand...

You know what is funny?

Thanks to the network the whole idea of PPV matches gets devaluated.
 
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