February Wrasslin' |OT| Observe THIS, Brother!

excelsiorlef said:
Those confessional promos from Graves are amazing. It is really sad that his career ended before it really began, he could have been huge.
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He's the best commentator in the company now, so I'd say it worked out pretty well for him. Job security seems much higher at that position.

Also he had one of his best lines ever tonight:

"I was walking down the Riverwalk in San Antonio last night and saw a guy laying on the ground playing guitar. I gave him fifty bucks just for not being Elias Samson"
 
serenewarfare said:
He's the best commentator in the company now, so I'd say it worked out pretty well for him. Job security seems much higher at that position.

Also he had one of his best lines ever tonight:

"I was walking down the Riverwalk in San Antonio last night and saw a guy laying on the ground playing guitar. I gave him fifty bucks just for not being Elias Samson"
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Oh he's great, but I just mean he could have been like, and I mean this literally, the next CM Punk.

I am glad he's around at the commentator's table but damn I just feel we missed out on years of amazing promos.
 
excelsiorlef said:
Oh he's great, but I just mean he could have been like, and I mean this literally, the next CM Punk.

I am glad he's around at the commentator's table but damn I just feel we missed out on years of amazing promos.
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He was never gonna be the next CM Punk. I was higher on him than most, but his character just didn't work all that well and his matches were average most of the time, and at their best just pretty good. Strangely, as good a commentator as he is, his promos were only ever slightly better than average IMO. He would have ended up a midcard guy if he ever made it to the main roster. Upper midcard at absolute best.
 
serenewarfare said:
He was never gonna be the next CM Punk. I was higher on him than most, but his character just didn't work all that well and his matches were average most of the time, and at their best just pretty good. He would have ended up a midcard guy if he ever made it to the main roster. Upper midcard at absolute best.
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Disagree, but we'll never know


Side note:

I wish they never took the IC title away from the Miz (both times)

He should have been on a long reign and lost it after nearly say I dunno a year, to a debuting Tye Dillinger.
 
serenewarfare said:
Really, really great Corey Graves video package that aired during NXT (tonight was his last show in NXT)

https://youtu.be/CFHIZ9gWc0I
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as someone who hasnt been following nxt as long as you guys, this video is really interesting, I keep hearing how Corey was a wrestler but Ive never seen him. To see that he was in nxt at the same time as all the guys that are now in wwe proper (wyatts, shield guys, neville...hell he was even tag champ with neville apparently) is kinda mind blowing.
 
"Sterling James Keenan" was a dude I had in my development territory in EWR back in the day.

excelsiorlef said:
Here's the big problem they are booking Ember to be this unbeatable monster in her own right. Asuka is also booked as an unbeatable monster.

If they do what's expected Moon beats Asuka, all you've done is replace one unbeatable monster with another.

There's zero competition in the division... unless say like Nikki Cross wins it. She's both tough but also beatable
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The thing is that Ember hasn't been booked as strong as Asuka who has steamrolled everyone except Bayley, Nia and Mickie James and maybe Bayley could be debated, Ember is "undefeated" (except at live event matches where AFAIK she's lost to Asuka in every match) but her wins aren't as dominant and it makes everyone she beats at least look like they could some day be on her level and beat her opposed to Asuka who completely outclasses everyone who is still in NXT that she's faced.

I agree about the character issues but that's on the creative end and I hope they give her some actual time to develop that, the issues with the presentation issues could be explained fairly easily, in terms of match quality Ember/Asuka is the best choice. Save Nikki Cross for Ember after Asuka is gone, assuming of course Ember beats Asuka, which she should but we'll see.
 
PHOENIXZERO said:
The thing is that Ember hasn't been booked as strong as Asuka who has steamrolled everyone except Bayley, Nia and Mickie James and maybe Bayley could be debated, Ember is "undefeated" (except at live event matches where AFAIK she's lost to Asuka in every match) but her wins aren't as dominant and it makes everyone she beats at least look like they could some day be on her level and beat her opposed to Asuka who completely outclasses everyone who is still in NXT that she's faced.

I agree about the character issues but that's on the creative end and I hope they give her some actual time to develop that, the issues with the presentation issues could be explained fairly easily, in terms of match quality Ember/Asuka is the best choice. Save Nikki Cross for Ember after Asuka is gone, assuming of course Ember beats Asuka, which she should but we'll see.
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I still think going through Nikki is a better plan than Ember. Like it's flat out the more developed story already. With the whole they had to literally take Nikki out of the match for Asuka to be able to retain story from Saturday.

Nikki wins, beats Ember in her first try and we build that story, we should not go from one undefeated champ to the next undefeated champ.

I'll be honest though unless they fix that character Ember is going to be a dud as champ.
 
It feels weird to me that on the outside, Ember is so obviously a lunatic killer, but she's presented as a happy to be here babyface. There's such a large disconnect between her vicious red eyes and her admiration for people like Bayley.
 
Rhaknar said:
as someone who hasnt been following nxt as long as you guys, this video is really interesting, I keep hearing how Corey was a wrestler but Ive never seen him. To see that he was in nxt at the same time as all the guys that are now in wwe proper (wyatts, shield guys, neville...hell he was even tag champ with neville apparently) is kinda mind blowing.
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Go and watch 14-15 NXT, the best years of the brand so far. Almost every wrestler that's champ on the main roster is there.
 
Tall4Life said:
It feels weird to me that on the outside, Ember is so obviously a lunatic killer, but she's presented as a happy to be here babyface. There's such a large disconnect between her vicious red eyes and her admiration for people like Bayley.
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It's dumb, it makes her look like some hot topic tween.

Either become the killer her look and entrance suggests or drop that shit.

It makes me not give a fuck about her even if she's good in the ring.

Hence my pushing for Nikki Cross who is all in on her gimmick,
 
I wonder if Cien Almas doing the Ingobernables thing will be a main roster deal with Reigns going tranquilo.

People said they wanted that a while ago.
 
The Strokes said:
Ember Moon screams for the need of a manager with that gimmick, the problem is that current NXT women's division needs a strong babyface.
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That's the other reason it should be Nikki Cross who takes the belt, face vs heel instrad of face vs uber super over face.


Hell Nikki takes the belt, Asuka demands a rematch, Ember comes in and says only if you come through me, reminding Asuuka of her Ember who? promo.

Ember beats Asuka... Asuka , Ember fights Nikki and like I said loses it the first time (maybe it's even the same night as the Ember/Asuka fight so we have the story of Ember being tired) and takes it on the second match.
 
Ember Moon is obviously the choice to beat Asuka. She has the most to gain from it and the match is the best that division could currently put on. Cross has the Sanity gimmick, which will help her get over no matter what.

All of this is a moot point anyways because it has been obvious from Day 1 that Ember is who is being built to beat her. She's over enough (especially her finish) that she won't get resentment and the fans will buy it. Plus it immediately establishes her as the top woman in that division.
 
serenewarfare said:
Ember Moon is obviously the choice to beat Asuka. She has the most to gain from it and the match is the best that division could currently put on. Cross has the Sanity gimmick, which will help her get over no matter what.
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Yeah I know I just wish they had more of a story to it.

Nikki's story with Asuka has been so much better.
 
excelsiorlef said:
Yeah I know I just wish they had more of a story to it.

Nikki's story with Asuka has been so much better.
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Nikki's story with Asuka is fine, but her beating Asuka doesn't add anything to it, unless she does it with help from the group.

Like let's not overestimate the story. It's literally just been "Nikki's craaaaazy! And she gives Asuka weird looks and stares at the belt!"

With Ember vs. Asuka they are already building the disrespect story with Asuka's promo tonight and they have the undefeated angle to push (yes, I know about the house shows).
 
serenewarfare said:
He was never gonna be the next CM Punk. I was higher on him than most, but his character just didn't work all that well and his matches were average most of the time, and at their best just pretty good. Strangely, as good a commentator as he is, his promos were only ever slightly better than average IMO. He would have ended up a midcard guy if he ever made it to the main roster. Upper midcard at absolute best.
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I dunno about the next CM Punk, but I always liked his submission based in ring style. It might of just been the people who were selling it, but even when he lost a match, I felt like his opponents needed like a few weeks off to heal from the damage he did to them. His promo's weren't great, but he always could of improved on that. Mid card sounds about right though.
 
serenewarfare said:
Nikki's story with Asuka is fine, but her beating Asuka doesn't add anything to it, unless she does it with help from the group.

Like let's not overestimate the story. It's literally just been "Nikki's craaaaazy! And she gives Asuka weird looks and stares at the belt!"

With Ember vs. Asuka they are already building the disrespect story with Asuka's promo tonight and they have the undefeated angle to push (yes, I know about the house shows).
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I mean the in ring stuff was Nikki pushing hard back against Asuka and making her look beatable even for a moment... that entire match was built around those two taking out Royce and Kay so that they could get back to their one on one fight.

The look at the end of the match was literally Nikki looking at Asuka and saying you're lucky I got taken out.

If they aren't going to give it to Nikki, and they aren't. I hope they never do the one on one match there, because Nikki gains a ton winning and loses a ton losing imo.

I will fully admit I just flat put prefer Nikki. So I'm arguing for major bias.


Bliss has got a pretty cool shirt that I'd say is safe to wear in the wild
W12784.jpg
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excelsiorlef said:
I mean the in ring stuff was Nikki pushing hard back against Asuka and making her look beatable even for a moment... that entire match was built around those two taking out Royce and Kay so that they could get back to their one on one fight.

The look at the end of the match was literally Nikki looking at Asuka and saying you're lucky I got taken out.

If they aren't going to give it to Nikki, and they aren't. I hope they never do the one on one match there, because Nikki gains a ton winning and loses a ton losing imo.

I will fully admit I just flat put prefer Nikki. So I'm arguing for major bias.


Bliss has got a pretty cool shirt that I'd say is safe to wear in the wild
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If they're really going to make an Ingobernables knockoff, imagine if Nikki takes the belt from Asuka with the help from Sanity and then Andrade recruits her. That would massively help him, legitimize the stable and would just be plain awesome.
 
excelsiorlef said:
I mean the in ring stuff was Nikki pushing hard back against Asuka and making her look beatable even for a moment... that entire match was built around those two taking out Royce and Kay so that they could get back to their one on one fight.

The look at the end of the match was literally Nikki looking at Asuka and saying you're lucky I got taken out.

If they aren't going to give it to Nikki, and they aren't. I hope they never do the one on one match there, because Nikki gains a ton winning and loses a ton losing imo.

I will fully admit I just flat put prefer Nikki. So I'm arguing for major bias.


Bliss has got a pretty cool shirt that I'd say is safe to wear in the wild
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I just think the "Asuka runs through everyone, gets cocky, then underestimates a young undefeated challenger" is a better angle for her to take her first loss off of than what would likely be a run-in filled mess with Sanity/Nikki Cross.

For example, when two hot undefeated sports teams meet up, the best scenario is that you have a great and close contest, but a clear winner. Something ending in controversy just sucks in that scenario. Asuka's first loss should be a clean one.

The Strokes said:
If they're really going to make an Ingobernables knockoff, imagine if Nikki takes the belt from Asuka with the help from Sanity and then Andrade recruits her. That would massively help him, legitimize the stable and would just be plain awesome.
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That would make no sense. Like, at all. Why the hell would she leave Sanity? Why would Andrade even want to join up with her? None of that works with their current stories or characters.
 
serenewarfare said:
I just think the "Asuka runs through everyone, gets cocky, then underestimates a young undefeated challenger" is a better angle for her to take her first loss off of than what would likely be a run-in filled mess with Sanity/Nikki Cross.
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I'm not even suggesting a run in Sanity has had zero impact on her feud with Asuka at all. They were no were to be seen during the four way match. I'd just flat out have Nikki drop Asuka clean.
 
excelsiorlef said:
I'm not even suggesting a run in Sanity has had zero impact on her feud with Asuka at all. They were no were to be seen during the four way match. I'd just flat out have Nikki drop Asuka clean.
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A long undefeated streak like this going cleanly to a heel is bad booking because all it can do is get her heat, and there are so many other ways to do that that don't involve burning 18 months worth of build. That win is much better suited to firmly establish a new top babyface (which is a hard thing to do) than it is to add more heat to a heel, which is relatively way, way easier.
 
serenewarfare said:
A long undefeated streak like this going cleanly to a heel is bad booking because all it can do is get her heat, and there are so many other ways to do that that don't involve burning 18 months worth of build. That win is much better suited to firmly establish a new top babyface (which is a hard thing to do) than it is to add more heat to a heel, which is relatively way, way easier.
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For the record I know you're right, I just think Ember's character is shit, whereas Nikki Cross is a complete package.

That and I don't like it going from undefeated champ to undefeated champ.
 
Don't know if anyone is watching Main Event recently, but Big Momma Pump is back to being jakked. Apparently she is competing in the Arnold Classic again.
 
The Strokes said:
Asuka joining Andrade to take on Sanity wouldn't make sense?
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AH, I read it wrong. Thought you meant Cross joining Andrade. My mistake.

Still wouldn't really work though unless you turn Andrade face, which was fucking dreadful eight months ago. Also would be really flippy-floppy with his character in a bad way.
 
I wanted AJ vs Miz title for title as the main event of Mania and I wanted Cena vs Taker career vs career. Why is the IC title on a chump again and why is Randy Orton main eventing Mania? I don't understand anything.
 
excelsiorlef said:
I'd say there's a difference between a battle royal and a losing a title match.

And undefeated is definitely a gimmick more than a factual thing.
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I mean she "lost", but she's still technically unbeaten because she has not been pinned or submitted. You said it yourself that the story was that she only lost because she was taken out by Kay and Royce.

And even so, if you apply that logic to Ember Moon
she's not undefeated anymore either, because she's on the losing end of a three-way match in a few weeks on TV.
(NXT TV Spoiler)
 
serenewarfare said:
I mean she "lost", but she's still technically unbeaten because she has not been pinned or submitted. You said it yourself that the story was that she only lost because she was taken out by Kay and Royce.

And even so, if you apply that logic to Ember Moon
she's not undefeated anymore either, because she's on the losing end of a three-way match in a few weeks on TV.
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Cool then!
still wish it was Nikki :P

Like I said undefeated is a gimmick more than anything real.

Again Ember is absolutely the right way to do it, I just don't want it because I think her gimmick sucks.
 
serenewarfare said:
AH, I read it wrong. Thought you meant Cross joining Andrade. My mistake.

Still wouldn't really work though unless you turn Andrade face, which was fucking dreadful eight months ago. Also would be really flippy-floppy with his character in a bad way.
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Yeah, the issue is that if you're gonna have someone who Full Sail isn't really into like Andrade create a stable, there needs to be someone that can make it work.
 
I Wanna Be The Guy said:
I wanted AJ vs Miz title for title as the main event of Mania and I wanted Cena vs Taker career vs career. Why is the IC title on a chump again and why is Randy Orton main eventing Mania? I don't understand anything.
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Vince doesn't want to give you what you want so you keep giving him $ in hopes of getting it someday, that is until the day you realize it's not happening, 85 years too late.
 
excelsiorlef said:
Goldberg/Lesnar is almost absolutely main eventing Mania
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They've literally been using the words main eventing mania referring to Randy winning the rumble. If his match really doesn't close the show after all that....lol.

I'm ok with Goldberg Lesnar main eventing if Goldberg Goldbergs again. But that's unlikely.
 
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