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[NoctisVsStar]

I really hope it's good, but everything they've been putting out is like concentrated anti-hype, horrible quality screenshots, weirdly edited trailers, awful technical demoes, terrible stage presentations, tie-in anime that's worse than most anime, weirdly candid interviews that say they're struggling to hit pretty low resolution and framerate targets, etc.

I'm basically hoping there's a lot more interesting locations and plot stuff and set-pieces that we haven't seen (or have only seen a glimpse of) as they seem to be limiting footage to a few areas.

I thought the majority of people wanted candid interviews from their devs. The limited footage is a good thing but hey next week everyone is going to be spoiled by the Levi segment... Blackout mode for me I don't need to see nothing else.

 

[Cloud7]

I hated the dog like creatures in Duscae demo because they were too fast and the camera honestly sucked. Platinum was better in that regard though.

Oh yeah, definitely on both counts. Platinum was better but with Platinum, I think they designed the demo itself to be more accessible. The latest gameplay trailers seem intimidating to me. I can play Bayonetta no problem but FF XV's hack and slash combat seems like it will be harder to master on the surface and that worries me.

 

[Blobbers]

Responds to a post using the phrase "generally" with an anecdotal example. Sure.

Metacritic is a flawed predictor of quality, as I mentioned, but it's probably the best single aggregate measure of quality we have for games. A 90, or higher, is usually a terrific game. 90s are also better than 70s, usually. If you're trying to argue superiority between games rated as 84 and 86, or something like that, as many gaffers do, that's your fault for misusing the metric.

As I said earlier, I expect a tepid response to this game, in terms of both response, sales, and scores. I haven't seen anything to convince me otherwise.

Maybe there's a deeper meaning to my example. Maybe the Skyrim example and DA: I example indicate that the mainstream media is more receptive of western RPGs set in a tolkien-esque setting regardless of how shallow they are or how atrocious the game mechanics are. Maybe the metacritic score "generally" means fuck all depending on what kind of a gamer you are and what you look for in a game.

You said a 90 is usually a terrific game. It's a terrific game for what kind of people? And are those people ones whose opinion I particularly care about?

I can probably name 50 games in the 70 and 80 category that I find better than Mass Effect 3.

But anyway, my point is not that you are wrong, just that the overall metacritic "generally" doesn't mean much to me.

 

[Valor]

XV has been through too much development hell to come out as anything close to being great or above that. It's just exceedingly unlikely based on how many hands have been in the mix over the years. The extra stuff like Kingsglaive and Brotherhood are all pretty good/look pretty good but it's likely not indicative of what XV will bring to the table, since those are all self contained stories thought of and written as such.

XV is like a weird stitched together husk at this point, common sense would have you believe. I still think it won't be totally atrocious, but thankfully we have Final Fantasy XIV to carry us through until the inevitable XVI.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

The gameplay was not good in the demo, I hope its good in the final release.

 

[James Scott]

The Behemoth fight wasn't represent of the actual game. You know, with the combat being half finished and all. They had no magic, no proper attacks. There was no way to OP Noctis and while we can level up all the way to 99 (in a demo!) but we still have our same old weak weapons and attacks and this means that aside from having a higher HP, our attacks can only get rid of a tiny section of the Behemoth's health bar. This is why whether it was Behemoth or Cateplobas (dino creature), the players had to simply do hit and run/recover to kill them and it took a long ass time.

The Titan Demo fight was better if you saw an actual person who knows how to play it, try it out. There are vidoes out there if you want to look, give a watch to the PS Access video.

I guess, but they put him wondering around the map after you first take him down, they could've made him beatable there. They also included a new boss in the 2.0 patch which is unbeatable without cheap tactics.
But it any case, they shouldn't of charged for the demo if they didn't want criticism and they shouldn't of released a bad demo to the rest of the public which wouldn't be as forgiving to the franchise as the people that payed $60 for Type 0 to get a demo.
I hope it turns out well, and it's good to hear they've addressed it, but it's still worrying

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Pros
Gameplay was solid, Music was great, Graphics hold up very well so does the artstyle,
Tough bosses, unless you grind beforehand.

Cons
People tend to not like the characters, not understand the story, no free traveling option.

FF13's problems are immense. It's linear and is essentially a dungeon crawler with dungeon design being literally non existent. Plains are the only place where you can freely explore. Atrocious pacing. Virtually non existent character development. Wretched script writing and plot. Entire terms and premise of the game is hidden under a glossary. The game assumes the player knows what it's talking about and doesn't do anything to get them involved with the world in any way. Horrible variety with few things to do. An overextended tutorial that lasts 3/4's of the game. Its structure is limited. It's not like there haven't been RPGs that have similar structure before (FF10, BOFV: DQ, DDS1+2) but those games excel in areas FF13 doesn't such as dungeon design, or great stories, or really difficult gameplay.

Its one saving grace are battles and arguably graphics. FF13's gameplay is not great. Correction - its battles are great. RPG gameplay is more than battles. There's also dungeon design, resource management, variety in things to do, npc interaction, quests, town/city exploration, it fails in all of these categories. 83 was too high a Metacritic score for FFXIII. It deserved a 70 at best.

Now you've got FFXV coming out with the aforementioned legacy of FF13, but also original FF14. If the previously released demos are accurate for final gameplay, this game will get a 75 Metacritic minimum. The standards for quality FF is much higher now after FF13 and 14. 14 ARR brought its guns, but many doubt 15 will.

 

[Koozek]

I really don't think there's any explanation necessary anymore about FFXIII's failure when the team itself was fully aware and admitted to the troubled development in the post-mortem.

Lack Of A Shared Vision

Although the game was announced with an elaborate trailer, the team had little direction beyond this proof of concept, which led to problems as development ramped up.

"Final Fantasy XIII was first introduced through a concept trailer shown alongside the announcement of the Fabula Nova Crystallis project at E3 2006 (Fabula Nova Crystallis represents a suite of games and other entertainment media related to Final Fantasy XIII). The trailer was merely a visual concept, and we had not yet created anything playable at that point.

I felt that this trailer set the bar for the quality we were aiming to achieve, in terms of battle speed and cutscene imagery, and believed that this sentiment was shared by the rest of the team.

However, it became clear that, at the time, there were actually very few members who saw the trailer as a representation of what we wanted to achieve with Final Fantasy XIII. This lack of a shared vision became the root of many conflicts that arose later in development."​

[...]

"Even at a late stage of development, we did not agree on key elements of the game, which stemmed from the lack of a cohesive vision, the lack of finalized specs, and the remaining problems with communication between departments.

What enabled us to conquer this line of seemingly endless conflicts was the development process for the Final Fantasy XIII demo, which was included in the Japan-only Blu-ray version of the animated film Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children Complete. The demo was not in our original plan, so we had to make adjustments to the overall schedule to accommodate it. Whatever effects creating the demo had on the schedule, once it was complete we realized it was just the panacea we needed.

[...]​

More at the link:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...Scenes_Of_Square_Enixs_Final_Fantasy_XIII.php

 

[Dark_castle]

The Behemoth fight wasn't represent of the actual game. You know, with the combat being half finished and all. They had no magic, no proper attacks. There was no way to OP Noctis and while we can level up all the way to 99 (in a demo!) but we still have our same old weak weapons and attacks and this means that aside from having a higher HP, our attacks can only get rid of a tiny section of the Behemoth's health bar. This is why whether it was Behemoth or Cateplobas (dino creature), the players had to simply do hit and run/recover to kill them and it took a long ass time.

The Titan Demo fight was better if you saw an actual person who knows how to play it, try it out. There are vidoes out there if you want to look, give a watch to the PS Access video.

Why haven't we seen a full, unedited true high level boss battle footage that wasn't part of a demo with the game's release date just a month away? If the Titan demo fight was truly indicative of how most boss fights would go down, I'd really hate it. Bunch of quests to follow, scripted cutscenes that interrupt the gameplay, not a fan.

I really don't think there's any explanation necessary anymore about FFXIII's failure when the team itself was fully aware and admitted to the troubled development in the post-mortem.

Lack Of A Shared Vision

Although the game was announced with an elaborate trailer, the team had little direction beyond this proof of concept, which led to problems as development ramped up.

"Final Fantasy XIII was first introduced through a concept trailer shown alongside the announcement of the Fabula Nova Crystallis project at E3 2006 (Fabula Nova Crystallis represents a suite of games and other entertainment media related to Final Fantasy XIII). The trailer was merely a visual concept, and we had not yet created anything playable at that point.

I felt that this trailer set the bar for the quality we were aiming to achieve, in terms of battle speed and cutscene imagery, and believed that this sentiment was shared by the rest of the team.

However, it became clear that, at the time, there were actually very few members who saw the trailer as a representation of what we wanted to achieve with Final Fantasy XIII. This lack of a shared vision became the root of many conflicts that arose later in development."​

[...]

"Even at a late stage of development, we did not agree on key elements of the game, which stemmed from the lack of a cohesive vision, the lack of finalized specs, and the remaining problems with communication between departments.

What enabled us to conquer this line of seemingly endless conflicts was the development process for the Final Fantasy XIII demo, which was included in the Japan-only Blu-ray version of the animated film Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children Complete. The demo was not in our original plan, so we had to make adjustments to the overall schedule to accommodate it. Whatever effects creating the demo had on the schedule, once it was complete we realized it was just the panacea we needed.

[...]​

More at the link:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...Scenes_Of_Square_Enixs_Final_Fantasy_XIII.php

Dejavu all over right here, because it seems to me XV is also suffering from this, a lack of shared, coherent vision.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Why haven't we seen a full, unedited true high level boss battle footage that wasn't part of a demo with the game's release date just a month away? If the Titan demo fight was truly indicative of how most boss fights would go down, I'd really hate it. Bunch of quests to follow, scripted cutscenes that interrupt the gameplay, not a fan.

Why would You wanna see that but anyway if rumors are true the

Spoiler

leviathan fight will be shown this month

 

[DarkConfidant]

A lot of hype and cynicism.

We don't have the real game yet, so most of it's hot air, as per usual.

 

[NoctisVsStar]

A lot of hype and cynicism.

We don't have the real game yet, so most of it's hot air, as per usual.

FF Fans are more divisive than any other fanbase.. Nothing new here.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

I really don't think there's any explanation necessary anymore about FFXIII's failure when the team itself was fully aware and admitted to the troubled development in the post-mortem.

Lack Of A Shared Vision

Although the game was announced with an elaborate trailer, the team had little direction beyond this proof of concept, which led to problems as development ramped up.

"Final Fantasy XIII was first introduced through a concept trailer shown alongside the announcement of the Fabula Nova Crystallis project at E3 2006 (Fabula Nova Crystallis represents a suite of games and other entertainment media related to Final Fantasy XIII). The trailer was merely a visual concept, and we had not yet created anything playable at that point.

I felt that this trailer set the bar for the quality we were aiming to achieve, in terms of battle speed and cutscene imagery, and believed that this sentiment was shared by the rest of the team.

However, it became clear that, at the time, there were actually very few members who saw the trailer as a representation of what we wanted to achieve with Final Fantasy XIII. This lack of a shared vision became the root of many conflicts that arose later in development."​

[...]

"Even at a late stage of development, we did not agree on key elements of the game, which stemmed from the lack of a cohesive vision, the lack of finalized specs, and the remaining problems with communication between departments.

What enabled us to conquer this line of seemingly endless conflicts was the development process for the Final Fantasy XIII demo, which was included in the Japan-only Blu-ray version of the animated film Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children Complete. The demo was not in our original plan, so we had to make adjustments to the overall schedule to accommodate it. Whatever effects creating the demo had on the schedule, once it was complete we realized it was just the panacea we needed.

[...]​

More at the link:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...Scenes_Of_Square_Enixs_Final_Fantasy_XIII.php

I'm sorry but if you don't see some of the same problems with FFXV I don't know what to tell you.

The main theme of that article you posted was a lack of a shared vision. How does this not fit FFXV, the game that feels like it's all over the place in terms of what it wants, especially in its battles? FFXV had a toiled 10 years. It has had so many iterations and reiterations and different visions. Compare the current XV to the 2011 trailer. People complain that it's not the same game anymore. And you expect this game to be a unified product after it switched directors?

XV isn't a test to see if SE have learned from XIII because XV is tainted goods due to its rough development.

XVI will be the real test. Everything related to Fabula Nova Crystalis era should be taken with a grain of salt on SE's dedication to making FF great again.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

I'm so sick of hearing about its rough development at this point

 

[Styles]

Why would You wanna see that but anyway if rumors are true the

Spoiler

leviathan fight will be shown this month

Not here for another amateurish attempt at plagiarizing one of God Of War's amazing set pieces.

The Nier: Automata gameplay video of one of the boss fights did an infinitely better job at showing off the game than whatever fluff SE have been trying to advertise.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

I'm so sick of hearing about its rough development at this point

Why? The game was announced in 2006. What do you expect?

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Why? The game was announced in 2006. What do you expect?

And it's a different game now versus is dead. Judge the game for what it is when it comes out?

 

[GasProblem]

Hope we'll get some console gameplay out of Gamescon.

I'm still hyped for this and want to play it and have it preordered, but I do need some reassurance of its performance on consoles.

 

[Ashtar]

I went from not caring (don't follow FF) then they had the reveal trailer and I was hyped, they released the demo and the reception seemed luke warm, then they released platinum and it was just weird, the recent on screen demos haven't helped things either.

What i was expecting from the first trailer (in 2013) was a fast speed, action rpg with all the anime trapping and fast responsive gameplay

What it looks like to me it the japanese version of Dragon Age inquisition, lots of stuff to do but boring minute to minute combat, hopefully it'll avoid the bad/pointless side quests.

I'm gonna wait for reviews and if they make the combat fun I'll play otherwise pass

So I'd rate it 78 degrees

 

[NoctisVsStar]

Gameplay videos from different members here will be interesting to see.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

And it's a different game now versus is dead. Judge the game for what it is when it comes out?

The game is out in a month and a half and gameplay videos features frame rate drops. The game has had a series of poorly received demos. Why doesn't Versus count exactly? Because it was never in development, right? And this is evidence towards this game not having a rough development, why exactly?

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Gameplay videos from different members here will be interesting to see.

That's the fun part. Gotta get better with the shuriken tho I miscalculate the distance real bad and be wasting mp

Edit:^^alright

 

[Dark_castle]

The game is out in a month and a half and gameplay videos features frame rate drops. The game has had a series of poorly received demos. Why doesn't Versus count exactly? Because it was never in development, right? And this is evidence towards this game not having a rough development, why exactly?

In all fairness, none of us actually know to what extent Versus had been in production, what degree of playability it had, what game mechanics were actually in-place, and so on. I have long moved on from Versus and considered XV to be a new game since 2013, but even since 2013, there are plethora of changes from story, characters, character designs to gameplay mechanics. I know it's probably quite common for video game development to have changes along the way, but those are some pretty drastic changes in a span of 3 years.

But again, changes CAN be for the better, so none of these concerns matter if the game turns out good. At least I have some confidence that XV can't be any worse than XIII. I had more enjoyment out of Episode Duscae and Platinum demo than the trainwreck that is FFXIII.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

In all fairness, none of us actually know to what extent Versus had been in production, what degree of playability it had, what game mechanics were actually in-place, and so on. I have long moved on from Versus and considered XV to be a new game since 2013, but even since 2013, there are plethora of changes from story, characters, character designs to gameplay mechanics. I know it's probably quite common for video game development to have changes along the way, but those are some pretty drastic changes in a span of 3 years.

But again, changes CAN be for the better, so none of these concerns matter if the game turns out good. At least I have some confidence that XV can't be any worse than XIII. I had more enjoyment out of Episode Duscae and Platinum demo than the trainwreck that is FFXIII.

The amount of changes made to this game since it changed into XV could either good or bad. Either they're good changes made to improve the product, or they're another piece of evidence that SE still has no specific vision for its mainline single player FF games and it suffers from the same issues that plagued FF13's development.

Pick and choose; wait and see. I'm personally leaning on the latter because I'm more of a cynic.

 

[NoctisVsStar]

The amount of changes made to this game since it changed into XV could either good or bad. Either they're good changes made to improve the product, or they're another piece of evidence that SE still has no specific vision for its mainline single player FF games and it suffers from the same issues that plagued FF13's development.

Pick and choose; wait and see. I'm personally leaning on the latter because I'm more of a cynic.

That's your M.O tho lol

 

[BocoDragon]

In all fairness, none of us actually know to what extent Versus had been in production, what degree of playability it had, what game mechanics were actually in-place, and so on. I have long moved on from Versus and considered XV to be a new game since 2013, but even since 2013, there are plethora of changes from story, characters, character designs to gameplay mechanics. I know it's probably quite common for video game development to have changes along the way, but those are some pretty drastic changes in a span of 3 years.

But again, changes CAN be for the better, so none of these concerns matter if the game turns out good. At least I have some confidence that XV can't be any worse than XIII. I had more enjoyment out of Episode Duscae and Platinum demo than the trainwreck that is FFXIII.

That's interesting, because Platinum Demo was also a bizzare run through a pretty but linear tunnel whose only saving grace was combat.

 

[NoctisVsStar]

That's interesting, because Platinum Demo was also a bizzare run through a pretty but linear tunnel whose only saving grace was combat.

It was bizzare because frankly it had nothing to do with the game and people were shocked in a bad way. Thinking that MP plates and kid Noctis is in the game lol

 

[Koozek]

I'm sorry but if you don't see some of the same problems with FFXV I don't know what to tell you.

The main theme of that article you posted was a lack of a shared vision. How does this not fit FFXV, the game that feels like it's all over the place in terms of what it wants, especially in its battles? FFXV had a toiled 10 years. It has had so many iterations and reiterations and different visions. Compare the current XV to the 2011 trailer. People complain that it's not the same game anymore. And you expect this game to be a unified product after it switched directors?

XV isn't a test to see if SE have learned from XIII because XV is tainted goods due to its rough development.

XVI will be the real test. Everything related to Fabula Nova Crystalis era should be taken with a grain of salt on SE's dedication to making FF great again.

You know what the difference is? FFXV decided on its vision from the beginning of its development in 2013, not after creating a demo just a year before release (!) like FFXIII. They rewrote the story to streamline Nomura's original vision of a multi-title saga into one single game, cut things they knew would cost too much time and decided on making Kingsglaive right from the start three years ago. That's what's called a shared vision. Tabata already knew the release window back then, too, and created a tight schedule to make it possible.

EDIT: And no, I don't count Versus in any of this - FFXV is a completely new game made from the ground up for a new generation consoles. The superficial things it shares with Versus, like designs and story elements, are not relevant because in the end most of it still had to be reworked and reconsidered for the new tech with the script rewritten by Saori Itamuro etc... Nothing done by Nomura in 2006-2012 plays any role in the assessment of FFXV. This is a hugely ambitious game made in ~4 years, which is absolutely not unusual for a AAA game of this scale.

I agree, FFXVI will be free from all the baggage and benefit highly from all the new experience SE gained in this "recovery" phase with FFXIV:ARR and FFXV. At least I hope so

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

That's your M.O tho lol

Not really. Just on Final Fantasy.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Not really. Just on Final Fantasy.

..well at least you admit it

 

[BocoDragon]

It was bizzare because frankly it had nothing to do with the game and people were shocked in a bad way. Thinking that MP plates and kid Noctis is in the game lol

I do think it was a really non-representative slice of the game's assets. It was a truly bizzare thing to release, and they probably shouldn't have.

I wouldn't be surprised if you do play as kid Noctis in some flashback sequence... But not in that Carbuncle fever dream.

 

[Myths]

?

It can look bad to him although it might turn out being just good once experienced and nothing more.

 

[Servbot24]

Maybe there's a deeper meaning to my example. Maybe the Skyrim example and DA: I example indicate that the mainstream media is more receptive of western RPGs set in a tolkien-esque setting regardless of how shallow they are or how atrocious the game mechanics are. Maybe the metacritic score "generally" means fuck all depending on what kind of a gamer you are and what you look for in a game.

You said a 90 is usually a terrific game. It's a terrific game for what kind of people? And are those people ones whose opinion I particularly care about?

I can probably name 50 games in the 70 and 80 category that I find better than Mass Effect 3.

But anyway, my point is not that you are wrong, just that the overall metacritic "generally" doesn't mean much to me.

If a game is highly rated in generally has at least a few qualities in its favor. If those specific qualities don't resonate with you, it's your responsibility to recognize that and move on. I don't enjoy soccer but that doesn't mean I expected FIFA to always get a 2/10. I expect other people to do their thing, and I'll do my thing.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

..well at least you admit it

For what it's worth I have enjoyed every episode of Brotherhood immensely and if the games characters carry that amount of development and connection in the actual game, I might enjoy it.

You know what the difference is? FFXV decided on its vision from the beginning of its development in 2013, not after creating a demo just a year before release (!) like FFXIII. They rewrote the story to streamline Nomura's original vision of a multi-title saga into one single game, cut things they knew would cost too much time and decided on making Kingsglaive right from the start three years ago. That's what's called a shared vision. Tabata already knew the release window back then, too, and created a tight schedule to make it possible.

I agree, FFXVI will be free from all the baggage and benefit highly from all the new experience SE gained in this "recovery" phase with FFXIV:ARR and FFXV. At least I hope so

Fair enough point. I still can't believe they just made FF13 after that demo. Like, what.

 

[Amirnol]

If anyone is interested in seeing JRPGs continue to exist (especially at this scale), then consider supporting this game.

 

[silva1991]

And it's a different game now versus is dead. Judge the game for what it is when it comes out?

Not different enough to forget abut Versus 13 and not relate it to it

I mean come on

the difference between the two is probably even less than the difference between DMC and DmC: Devil May Cry.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Not different enough to forget abut Versus 13 and not relate it to it

I mean come on

the difference between the two is probably even less than the difference between DMC and DmC: Devil May Cry.

Alright

 

[Dark_castle]

That's interesting, because Platinum Demo was also a bizzare run through a pretty but linear tunnel whose only saving grace was combat.

Because I found myself enjoying the Iron Giant fight quite a bit after getting used to the gameplay and collected the shield and shuriken. It's still flawed, and I will forever whine about holding button to attack thing, but I had fun with it. If the full game can build on that, then great. I'm just mainly worried about how they'd go about the boss fights as far as the gameplay is concerned.

 

[NoctisVsStar]

Because I found myself enjoying the Iron Giant fight quite a bit after getting used to the gameplay and collected the shield and shuriken. It's still flawed, and I will forever whine about holding button to attack thing, but I had fun with it. If the full game can build on that, then great. I'm just mainly worried about how they'd go about the boss fights as far as the gameplay is concerned.

You don't have to hold tho...

Spoiler

Kappa

 

[Fbh]

Honestly, to me this looks like it could go either way.

Some aspects of it make me think (or hope) it will be amazing. The world looks really cool and all the bits and info we have gotten do, sometimes, really make it look like it will be insanely detailed and a joy to explore and discover.
I've also liked the trailers, with big cities, big landscapes, scenes of action and of the main cast just having fun it looks like it might capture that sense of adventure that I think is lacking from most RPG's ever since the trend of modern open world games started.

But at the same time, everything playable they have released has been dissapointing, the gameplay still has to prove itself and it's Square so if the entire last gen is anything to go by, the Story is basically guaranteed to suck.
Also, while people might argue that "it's just a demo", when you release 2 demos with framerate issues it really makes me doubt everything I see in the trailers. Because when there are big framedrops while using magic in an empty room I just don't buy that you have big cities with hundreds of NPC's walking around running at playable framerates

 

[Koozek]

For what it's worth I have enjoyed every episode of Brotherhood immensely and if the games characters carry that amount of development and connection in the actual game, I might enjoy it.



Fair enough point. I still can't believe they just made FF13 after that demo. Like, what.

Check my edit.

 

[Lothars]

XV has been through too much development hell to come out as anything close to being great or above that. It's just exceedingly unlikely based on how many hands have been in the mix over the years. The extra stuff like Kingsglaive and Brotherhood are all pretty good/look pretty good but it's likely not indicative of what XV will bring to the table, since those are all self contained stories thought of and written as such.

XV is like a weird stitched together husk at this point, common sense would have you believe. I still think it won't be totally atrocious, but thankfully we have Final Fantasy XIV to carry us through until the inevitable XVI.

I don't agree XV has a chance to be great. I thought both demo's were pretty good and have hope for the game but to automatically say the game will be crap because of how long it's been in development seems to reductionist and discounting what the game could be.

 

[The Last One]

You know what the difference is? FFXV decided on its vision from the beginning of its development in 2013, not after creating a demo just a year before release (!) like FFXIII. They rewrote the story to streamline Nomura's original vision of a multi-title saga into one single game, cut things they knew would cost too much time and decided on making Kingsglaive right from the start three years ago. That's what's called a shared vision. Tabata already knew the release window back then, too, and created a tight schedule to make it possible.

EDIT: And no, I don't count Versus in any of this - FFXV is a completely new game made from the ground up for a new generation consoles. The superficial things it shares with Versus, like designs and story elements, are not relevant because in the end most of it still had to be reworked and reconsidered for the new tech with the script rewritten by Saori Itamuro etc... Nothing done by Nomura in 2006-2012 plays any role in the assessment of FFXV. This is a hugely ambitious game made in ~4 years, which is absolutely not unusual for a AAA game of this scale.

I agree, FFXVI will be free from all the baggage and benefit highly from all the new experience SE gained in this "recovery" phase with FFXIV:ARR and FFXV. At least I hope so

Wait. What you mean about FF XIII? About deciding the vision after the demo. The demo released less than a year before the game.

 

[Vin_Mistborn]

You don't have to hold tho...

Spoiler

Kappa

Yeah, that's what I thought. It's been a while since I've played Duscae, but I could have sworn that I didn't hold the button down while attacking. I just tapped the button repeatedly like in most hack 'n slash games.

But then I come on here, and people keep saying that you have to hold down the button to attack, so I started thinking maybe I remembered my playing experience wrong or something lol. (Which is more than possible, my memory tends to suck )

 

[NoctisVsStar]

Yeah, that's what I thought. It's been a while since I've played Duscae, but I could have sworn that I didn't hold the button down while attacking. I just tapped the button repeatedly like in most hack 'n slash games.

But then I come on here, and people keep saying that you have to hold down the button to attack, so I started thinking maybe I remembered my playing experience wrong or something lol.

You don't even have to hold to defend either but I get dark's complaint that it feels unnatural or rather the feedback. I play it just by tapping normally.

 

[Soriku]

Yeah, that's what I thought. It's been a while since I've played Duscae, but I could have sworn that I didn't hold the button down while attacking. I just tapped the button repeatedly like in most hack 'n slash games.

But then I come on here, and people keep saying that you have to hold down the button to attack, so I started thinking maybe I remembered my playing experience wrong or something lol. (Which is more than possible, my memory tends to suck )

You can hold down or tap.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Honestly, to me this looks like it could go either way.

Some aspects of it make me think (or hope) it will be amazing. The world looks really cool and all the bits and info we have gotten do, sometimes, really make it look like it will be insanely detailed and a joy to explore and discover.
I've also liked the trailers, with big cities, big landscapes, scenes of action and of the main cast just having fun it looks like it might capture that sense of adventure that I think is lacking from most RPG's ever since the trend of modern open world games started.

But at the same time, everything playable they have released has been dissapointing, the gameplay still has to prove itself and it's Square so if the entire last gen is anything to go by, the Story is basically guaranteed to suck.
Also, while people might argue that "it's just a demo", when you release 2 demos with framerate issues it really makes me doubt everything I see in the trailers. Because when there are big framedrops while using magic in an empty room I just don't buy that you have big cities with hundreds of NPC's walking around running at playable framerates

Completely agree.

It really could go either way and I expect a mixed reception.

 

[BocoDragon]

You don't have to hold tho...

Spoiler

Kappa

Yeah, that's what I thought. It's been a while since I've played Duscae, but I could have sworn that I didn't hold the button down while attacking. I just tapped the button repeatedly like in most hack 'n slash games.

But then I come on here, and people keep saying that you have to hold down the button to attack, so I started thinking maybe I remembered my playing experience wrong or something lol. (Which is more than possible, my memory tends to suck )

Think back to old FF. It works exactly the same. You can either tap the button on the "Fight" menu command one at a time, or just hold the button down and as the ATB meter fills up, you auto attack. ;P

The biggest issue with XV is people looking at it and thinking "it's like Bayonetta" or maybe the closer-to-accurate-but-still-wrong "it's like KH". It's really not an action game, nor is it even an action RPG in the sense of KH. It's more of a straight RPG with really fast-paced turn times and command input through button presses rather than menu selections. It's a distinction that I think most people won't get from looking at it.

 

[Koozek]

Wait. What you mean about FF XIII? About deciding the vision after the demo. The demo released less than a year before the game.

See my post above:

Lack Of A Shared Vision

Although the game was announced with an elaborate trailer, the team had little direction beyond this proof of concept, which led to problems as development ramped up.

"Final Fantasy XIII was first introduced through a concept trailer shown alongside the announcement of the Fabula Nova Crystallis project at E3 2006 (Fabula Nova Crystallis represents a suite of games and other entertainment media related to Final Fantasy XIII). The trailer was merely a visual concept, and we had not yet created anything playable at that point.

I felt that this trailer set the bar for the quality we were aiming to achieve, in terms of battle speed and cutscene imagery, and believed that this sentiment was shared by the rest of the team.

However, it became clear that, at the time, there were actually very few members who saw the trailer as a representation of what we wanted to achieve with Final Fantasy XIII. This lack of a shared vision became the root of many conflicts that arose later in development."​

[...]

"Even at a late stage of development, we did not agree on key elements of the game, which stemmed from the lack of a cohesive vision, the lack of finalized specs, and the remaining problems with communication between departments.

What enabled us to conquer this line of seemingly endless conflicts was the development process for the Final Fantasy XIII demo, which was included in the Japan-only Blu-ray version of the animated film Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children Complete. The demo was not in our original plan, so we had to make adjustments to the overall schedule to accommodate it. Whatever effects creating the demo had on the schedule, once it was complete we realized it was just the panacea we needed.

[...]​

More at the link:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...Scenes_Of_Square_Enixs_Final_Fantasy_XIII.php

Right, the demo released even less than a year before release in Japan, but of course the development started a few months earlier. There's a reason why FFXIII clearly feels like someone just strung together all the assets without real world-building and exploration etc. Classic case of having no clear goal for far too long and then rushing it out in the end in the most basic form because there's no time and you're just happy you found any way to finish this mess - just get it over with finally. Anybody who was part of a student/school project with bad leadership knows this

FFXIII was symptomatic of everything wrong with modern-day game development practices, and a poster child for why Japanese developers have struggled with high-definition games. It's not a matter of talent (seriously, add some post-processing effects and FFXIII holds up, visually, to practically anything on one of the new consoles) but rather of management structure and mishandled planning. FFXIII was built on proprietary technology that changed midway through development, constructed around a story whose main purpose to string cool-looking full-motion videos together, stood as the centerpiece of a sweeping business venture that collapsed under its own ambition, and treated the actual game portion almost as an afterthought. There's an infamous anecdote about a visual artist for FFXIII who spent two weeks working on a single rock because no one told her what else to do. Even if that's apocryphal, it certainly fits into the game's behind-the-scenes narrative believably enough.​

 

[Vin_Mistborn]

Think back to old FF. It works exactly the same. You can either tap the button on the "Fight" menu command one at a time, or just hold the button down and as the ATB meter fills up, you auto attack. ;P

The biggest issue with XV is people looking at it and thinking "it's like Bayonetta" or maybe the closer-to-accurate-but-still-wrong "it's like KH". It's really not an action game, nor is it even an action RPG in the sense of KH. It's more of a straight RPG with really fast-paced turn times and command input through button presses rather than menu selections. It's a distinction that I think most people won't get from looking at it.

Oh yeah, I know it's not like KH. I just used the term "hack 'n slash" because I didn't know how else to describe it. There was a little more to it than that.