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Fighting Game Headquarters |2| 0-2 vs Community

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S

Sayad

Member
Cyber Caesar said:
I suspected as much. This is misplaced hate for the rival MK. So Capcom with the creation of a story mode will slowly evolve into a western developer the likes of Ed Boon and NetherRealms forsaking almost thirty years of solid gameplay. Ok, I think I've made my case.

Fear mongering- the deliberate use of fear based tactics including exaggeration and continual repetition to alter the perception of the public in order to achieve a desired outcome.
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Calm down, lol. I'm sensing some backstory here, anything you'd like to share?
 
C

CommandThrower

Member
enzo_gt said:
Have a feeling the SFV went the way of the MvC3 Story Mode since they're not talking about it this close to release. Or it's going to come post-launch; didn't KI do something like that?
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Killer Instinct did indeed add a story mode later after it's initial release; two, actually. Season 3 of KI should have a story mode as well. KI's story mode is passable. Nothing like MK or an ArcSys fighting game. It's just illustrations with a little text blurb before each fight, and then an ending cutscene for each character.

I expect SFV's story mode to be much like Killer Instinct's story mode. Just illustrations between each fight with some voice acting, with the odd movie cutscene when things get important.
 
shaowebb

shaowebb

Member
No one can tell me with Marvel that when they saw this they didn't want to know what was up with the story only to be let down when there was none. We all wanted to see more stuff like that go down and get shown over the course of single player and it never happened and we all missed out.

Also remember...the FGC is a VOCAL MINORITY. The money comes from the casual appeal. You absolutely need single player content to get over with them longterm. Additional modes, story, unlockables, customization and things of that nature are very very important to casual players. Not everyone wants to go online outside of week 1 and just get the shit knocked out of them and call it fun. They hate it. They need to feel rewarded when they play the game. Multiplayer won't really allow them much of that as the meta develops and the player pool distills down to the dedicated players chasing out the casual players. You need single player content like a large story mode to reward them in fighting games otherwise they see no value in the title at full price.
 
C

Coffeeling

Member
shaowebb said:
No one can tell me with Marvel that when they saw this they didn't want to know what was up with the story only to be let down when there was none. We all wanted to see more stuff like that go down and get shown over the course of single player and it never happened and we all missed out.

Also remember...the FGC is a VOCAL MINORITY. The money comes from the casual appeal. You absolutely need single player content to get over with them longterm. Additional modes, story, unlockables, customization and things of that nature are very very important to casual players. Not everyone wants to go online outside of week 1 and just get the shit knocked out of them and call it fun. They hate it. They need to feel rewarded when they play the game. Multiplayer won't really allow them much of that as the meta develops and the player pool distills down to the dedicated players chasing out the casual players. You need single player content like a large story mode to reward them in fighting games otherwise they see no value in the title at full price.
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I want more SoulBlade / SoulCalibur2 story mode.
 
L

Lostconfused

Member
shaowebb said:
Also remember...the FGC is a VOCAL MINORITY. The money comes from the casual appeal. You absolutely need single player content to get over with them longterm. Additional modes, story, unlockables, customization and things of that nature are very very important to casual players. Not everyone wants to go online outside of week 1 and just get the shit knocked out of them and call it fun. They hate it. They need to feel rewarded when they play the game. Multiplayer won't really allow them much of that as the meta develops and the player pool distills down to the dedicated players chasing out the casual players. You need single player content like a large story mode to reward them in fighting games otherwise they see no value in the title at full price.
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But that's a problem for the developers and publishers to deal with.
 
B

BakedYams

Slayer of Combofiends
Besides story mode, I'm calling there being two hidden bosses in SFV. Evil Ryu and Akuma and I'd like to make a friendly wager with Shouta. If I get it right, lemme have a bionic arm behind my tag. Some people are rocking pretty sweet tags. If I get it wrong, you can have me rock an avatar of your choice until E3 or something among that. Just don't change my tag, its my pride and joy.
 
K

K.Sabot

Member
x9Pxojx.png


Hah, remember this from Art's stream of the game.
 
ShinMaruku

ShinMaruku

Member
shaowebb said:
Also remember...the FGC is a VOCAL MINORITY. The money comes from the casual appeal. You absolutely need single player content to get over with them longterm. Additional modes, story, unlockables, customization and things of that nature are very very important to casual players. Not everyone wants to go online outside of week 1 and just get the shit knocked out of them and call it fun. They hate it. They need to feel rewarded when they play the game. Multiplayer won't really allow them much of that as the meta develops and the player pool distills down to the dedicated players chasing out the casual players. You need single player content like a large story mode to reward them in fighting games otherwise they see no value in the title at full price.
Click to expand...

Exactly why sometimes you have know to look outside of the FGC if you want more money, which Smash, MK and DOA did expertly.
 
notworksafe

notworksafe

Member
BakedYams said:
Besides story mode, I'm calling there being two hidden bosses in SFV. Evil Ryu and Akuma and I'd like to make a friendly wager with Shouta. If I get it right, lemme have a bionic arm behind my tag. Some people are rocking pretty sweet tags. If I get it wrong, you can have me rock an avatar of your choice until E3 or something among that. Just don't change my tag, its my pride and joy.
Click to expand...

if you were truly confident you'd make a ban bet
 
S

Sayad

Member
shaowebb said:
No one can tell me with Marvel that when they saw this they didn't want to know what was up with the story only to be let down when there was none. We all wanted to see more stuff like that go down and get shown over the course of single player and it never happened and we all missed out.
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I would have preferred something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdNSG6Boxkk

Coffeeling said:
I want more SoulBlade / SoulCalibur2 story mode.
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I second this.
 
shaowebb

shaowebb

Member
Lostconfused said:
But that's a problem for the developers and publishers to deal with.
Click to expand...

Some of us are those dudes and without a license you dont just get over on your own with single player very easily. You have to build a name and for that you have to show value. Its a struggle already getting a solid foundation in place. Knowing full well that to get over you essentially need to build a lot of other shit after you're done with the real game itself sucks. Its the truth though. Otherwise you'd be the equivalent of a wrestler doing a comedy gimmick. You'd only get over with a certain crowd, but you'd miss out on a much larger audience. In other words, you'd just be an entertaining distraction without a lot of depth of character even if there was technical depth.

Single gimmick fighting games mainly focused on arcade mode/multiplayer without a lot of single player content for casuals are about as interesting as a playable character would be to serious players if it only had normals and no special tools. For the FGC the meta is the game's depth. For casuals the amount of single player content is its depth.
 
I

Infinite

Member
I'm not sure if Capcom's silence on SFV's story mode means that it'll end up sucking. I'll wait for preview build impressions of the game and if it actually sucks or if it isn't included at all then I think that's a fair conclusion. So far all of our hands on experiences with the game has come from trade shows and beta tests which aren't really prime opportunities to demo a story mode build.
 
B

BakedYams

Slayer of Combofiends
notworksafe said:
if you were truly confident you'd make a ban bet
Click to expand...

Well it depends if Shouta is willing to get that bionic arm in my tag. Also, depends how long the ban is, I didn't mention it since SFV is coming out and I wanna get as many games as I can in with everyone.
 
L

Lostconfused

Member
shaowebb said:
Single gimmick fighting games mainly focused on arcade mode/multiplayer without a lot of single player content for casuals are about as interesting as a playable character would be to serious players if it only had normals and no special tools. For the FGC the meta is the game's depth. For casuals the amount of single player content is its depth.
Click to expand...

You don't need depth for longevity, although longevity can allow something to increase in depth.

People play Call of Duty, Halo, Destiny, DOTA, League of Legends for long periods of time even in competitive environments. It goes back to whoever it was that described Halo as "30 seconds of fun repeated" indefinitely. People will stick with a game as long as it manages to provide them with that positive stimulus that they are looking for on a consistent basis. That's pretty much the reason why people never get good or plateau at some point. They either don't get whatever they are looking for and quit or are satisfied enough to never bother looking for more.

I mean people kept playing Destiny, and that game was garbage, that content was shit, depth? Don't even kid your self.

Edit: Although single player modes like "story" are probably the easiest ways to keep non competitive players hooked without compromising the nature and balance of the competitive part of the game.
 
notworksafe

notworksafe

Member
BakedYams said:
Well it depends if Shouta is willing to get that bionic arm in my tag. Also, depends how long the ban is, I didn't mention it since SFV is coming out and I wanna get as many games as I can in with everyone.
Click to expand...

aim higher dawg

if you win, mod for life. if you lose, ban't for life. go big or go home!
 
L

Line_HTX

Member
shaowebb said:
No one can tell me with Marvel that when they saw this they didn't want to know what was up with the story only to be let down when there was none. We all wanted to see more stuff like that go down and get shown over the course of single player and it never happened and we all missed out.

Also remember...the FGC is a VOCAL MINORITY. The money comes from the casual appeal. You absolutely need single player content to get over with them longterm. Additional modes, story, unlockables, customization and things of that nature are very very important to casual players. Not everyone wants to go online outside of week 1 and just get the shit knocked out of them and call it fun. They hate it. They need to feel rewarded when they play the game. Multiplayer won't really allow them much of that as the meta develops and the player pool distills down to the dedicated players chasing out the casual players. You need single player content like a large story mode to reward them in fighting games otherwise they see no value in the title at full price.
Click to expand...

Can you hold my hand until we get to EVO please?

K.Sabot said:
x9Pxojx.png


Hah, remember this from Art's stream of the game.
Click to expand...

Fucking truth bombs, Godo Dayyum...
 
T

Tripon

Member
shaowebb said:
Some of us are those dudes and without a license you dont just get over on your own with single player very easily. You have to build a name and for that you have to show value. Its a struggle already getting a solid foundation in place. Knowing full well that to get over you essentially need to build a lot of other shit after you're done with the real game itself sucks. Its the truth though. Otherwise you'd be the equivalent of a wrestler doing a comedy gimmick. You'd only get over with a certain crowd, but you'd miss out on a much larger audience. In other words, you'd just be an entertaining distraction without a lot of depth of character even if there was technical depth.

Single gimmick fighting games mainly focused on arcade mode/multiplayer without a lot of single player content for casuals are about as interesting as a playable character would be to serious players if it only had normals and no special tools. For the FGC the meta is the game's depth. For casuals the amount of single player content is its depth.
Click to expand...
Dude, all you have to do is steal the Star Wars license and money comes pouring in. I seen it work, look at that kickstarter thread.
 
C

call_kotaku

Member
I wonder if actual fighting game developers on the forum (16bit *cough*) would be willing to atleast ballpark how much an involved single-player campaign costs for a modern videogame. I imagine MKX/Injustice's story modes cost a pretty penny, and it would be hard for other companies to justify the cost, especially since it's something 90% of buyers would only play once and something most of the serious players wouldn't consider added value.

Sure, "casuals" like story mode, but casuals also like microtransactions and progression systems, and those cost next to nothing to implement and might earn way more money. I mean, Battlefront actually cut out the single player campaign in order to be more casual
 
O

Osu 16 Bit

Member
call_kotaku said:
I wonder if actual fighting game developers on the forum (16bit *cough*) would be willing to atleast ballpark how much an involved single-player campaign costs for a modern videogame. I imagine MKX/Injustice's story modes cost a pretty penny, and it would be hard for other companies to justify the cost, especially since it's something 90% of buyers would only play once and something most of the serious players wouldn't consider added value.

Sure, "casuals" like story mode, but casuals also like microtransactions and progression systems, and those cost next to nothing to implement and might earn way more money. I mean, Battlefront actually cut out the single player campaign in order to be more casual
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not something I could comment on
 
K

Kumubou

Member
shaowebb said:
Some of us are those dudes and without a license you dont just get over on your own with single player very easily. You have to build a name and for that you have to show value. Its a struggle already getting a solid foundation in place. Knowing full well that to get over you essentially need to build a lot of other shit after you're done with the real game itself sucks. Its the truth though. Otherwise you'd be the equivalent of a wrestler doing a comedy gimmick. You'd only get over with a certain crowd, but you'd miss out on a much larger audience. In other words, you'd just be an entertaining distraction without a lot of depth of character even if there was technical depth.

Single gimmick fighting games mainly focused on arcade mode/multiplayer without a lot of single player content for casuals are about as interesting as a playable character would be to serious players if it only had normals and no special tools. For the FGC the meta is the game's depth. For casuals the amount of single player content is its depth.
Click to expand...
Are we talking about games in general or fighting games specifically? In general, I think it's far easier for a small developer on a new IP to create a single-player game and have a shot at success instead of a multi-player game, as you have a far greater window for something to happen to the game. Even if you launch the game and it's a dud, six months from now some YouTube star could do a random video of your game and your game could suddenly become relevant. Or maybe you just end up selling 50 copies a day but then over six to seven months that turns into 10,000 units. With a mutliplayer game, none of that can happen as the community needs to exist from launch. If you don't launch and manage to sustain some kind of community, the game is completely dead in the water and even if someone comes across the game weeks or months later and finds it to be interesting... they'll have nobody to play it with.

If we are talking specifically about fighting games, you're probably right but a) you have to be insane to do that as a small developer (hell, I would argue that anyone trying to launch a fighting game as a new IP nowadays is insane) and b) I think it's possible to to create compelling single player content from the core of a fighting game engine. Now is it worth the resources it would take to create that? That, honestly, comes down to just how much you have in resources.
 
shaowebb

shaowebb

Member
Kumubou said:
If we are talking specifically about fighting games, you're probably right but a) you have to be insane to do that as a small developer (hell, I would argue that anyone trying to launch a fighting game as a new IP nowadays is insane) and b) I think it's possible to to create compelling single player content from the core of a fighting game engine. Now is it worth the resources it would take to create that? That, honestly, comes down to just how much you have in resources.
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I assure you I am doing my best to try and have the strength to be this. I'm going to see how far I can get before I have to get help. Hopefully I get far enough to possibly find a backer. If not...I'll keep working at it. Not gonna lie though...I'm scared as fuck. All I can do is just remind myself that I have a career and all the time in the world and no life aside from this anyhow so its all the same if I succeed or fail. Its all I have that keeps me, well, "ME."

I'm not trying to be sane about this...I'm trying to be stubborn enough to prove something to myself.
 
ShinMaruku

ShinMaruku

Member
Line_HTX said:
LOL please, those Tag 2 days are over for real. 7 will undoubtedly be easier even for you, Shin.

;P
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Some lunatics told me even tag would be doable because I have 3d experience. I just think they wanted more people to play, but I let them know I can't mess the loot.
 
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