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Fighting Game Headquarters |2| 0-2 vs Community
- Thread starter notworksafe
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damn damn
i dont think anyone would argue that tho... of course arcsys was gonna keep making those games they had a built in dependable audience. what SF4 did was bring in a bunch of people who werent part of that audience and expose them to all kinds of games in the genre. also, more importantly it helped blow up the FGC to unheard of proportions.
i wonder why VF is so barren. its exciting to spectate, simple to understand etc. i think maybe VF5 just kinda came out at the wrong time.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Oh. OH.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
VF always comes out at the wrong time.
VF5 ps3 and 360 were fine. But Sega of America withholding FS is what drew the nail into the coffin on top of not patching the ps3 version with online play. By the time it came out, no one gave a shit. Sega incompetence as usual. By that time it had been FIVE YEARS since the release of VF5: Online on 360, and remember that the ps3 version had no online, so you could only build an audience in a realistic way on one system. Sega neglected to bring over ALL of VF5's upgrades either period, or before it was too late (FS).
VF has the ability to be popular. It certainly was during the ps2 era. We played VF4 on ps2 pretty regularly and it was a really popular game. It's just that Sega is ran by fucking morons.
Well to make an effort to understand what's happening one would have to be interested first. From the perspective of people that don't play it or fighting games it's not engaging in the same way marvel or sf would be because there's not enough colorful shit happening on screen and they can't follow it. Hell, people are dismissive of zoning and "that footsie crap" in sf4 when they catch Evo. Also what Cindi said.
FS was released on console like a year and a half after arcade, and on the same day in japan as in USA. VF5 is just old and stuck in last gen. still not hard to find games honestly.
Just saying. Suggesting that SF4 wasn't responsible for a revival in the genre because such games as Gundam VS were coming out at the same time is a pretty funny pull.
It's like saying Halloween couldn't be the reason Slasher movies were all over the place in the late 70's/early 80's, "The Toolbox Murders" came out that year too!
notworksafe
Member
The way Sega treated VF in the West just makes me think of how Namco is treating T7 in the West. Gets me heated, they are just pretending the West and console releases aren't a thing.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
It took two years for VF5 FS to come out overseas between its original JP arcade release in the midst of the height of the renewed fighting game boom.
JP ARCADE RELEASE DATE: July 29, 2010
PSN RELEASE DATE: June 5th, 2012
Pathetic. Sega are incompetent morons.
Taking a billion years to release a game overseas. Sounds familiar! I wonder what will happen with Tekken 7?
JP ARCADE RELEASE DATE: July 29, 2010
PSN RELEASE DATE: June 5th, 2012
Pathetic. Sega are incompetent morons.
Taking a billion years to release a game overseas. Sounds familiar! I wonder what will happen with Tekken 7?
notworksafe
Member
No one will give a shit. Again.
Goddamnit. It's okay though, I'll play it at local events and during its one day Friday tournament at EVO 2017
Goddamnit. It's okay though, I'll play it at local events and during its one day Friday tournament at EVO 2017
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Let's NOT port Tekken Tag Tournament 2 to PS4, Xbox One, and PC.
Let's just leave it on 360 and ps3 and see what happens as a social experiment.
"Why does everyone always forget Tekken?!"
Blame Namco.
Holy Order Sol
Member
The past few years spent on "growing the community" have mostly been about showing people hype, drama and "omg look we're a fun bunch to be around" with the actual games being an afterthought so in retrospect this isn't surprising.
Project M probably has it the worst where even people who play it won't give a fuck what happens in a match if it's not .gfycat material.
this is not unusual for the console release of an arcade game
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
I don't know who Mes is.
Sorry for not being competitive:
1. I'm plop
2. I don't have a stick
3. Haven't played SF properly in years.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Two years? Naw.
Either way, FS wasn't the ONLY Virtua Fighter 5 upgrade. Sega didn't bring over R either.
Again, 7 years between FS and VF5 360 in the middle of the modern fighting game boom. Sega missed the boat, perhaps even purposely. Who knows!
Would VF be in the same position it is now if Sega had released R in 2009 on consoles and then FS in 2011 to go alongside Arcade Edition? Douuuubt it.
Lostconfused
Member
"When's combos ResidentSleeper"
You are aware that Sega got a cut of every credit played on VF5, right? (until they rolled out the final patch to allow for offline play last year) Why would a company set that money on fire to make some relatively marginal sales on consoles? The other issue is that it's a very hardcore playerbase, so deciding to only release the console version overseas would not stop the Japanese players from importing the game and hurting coin drop rates.
It's frustrating to deal with as a fan outside of Japan... but it's not stupid.
Let me ask two questions here: How much do you think it would cost to port TTT2 to the PS4, XBone and PC (remember: it's not on UE4 like Tekken 7 is), and how many sales do you think they would have made? It would have been a year after the console release if they were launch games. I think you can make a case that it would have been worth doing, but given the negative projections for the next generation at that time and TTT2 on the PS360 underperforming, it's understandable why Namco decided to not do that.
RockTurtle
Member
it's me :V
LMAO
Cindi Mayweather
Member
All you're telling me is these companies are thinking of short term profit rather than long term. If Sega makes money off every VF credit that's pretty good! But you know what would increase their money even more? International fan bases. SFIV and MK both have PC and current gen releases. They're also the biggest traditional fighters. Do MK and SF have current gen versions because they're the biggest games or are they the biggest games because they have the sense to be available to as wide a number of people as possible?
See where I'm going here? Meanwhile anime games like BB and GG are more relevant in today's landscape than Tekken or VF for being widely available and released quickly.
Can you imagine if Capcom didn't release Super Street Fighter IV overseas and we had to wait for USFIV to have SF in our homes again? That's what we are dealing with in regards to Sega and VF. Would SF be as big as it is now if Capcom did this? No. It doesn't look like we're getting VF6 so that short term arcade bank sure paid off!
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
soz you had to hear the news like this
irfaanator
Banned
Calls a girl fat ass. Damn this is why you never get anywhere
notworksafe
Member
the ass was fat
So apparently the teaser from Ed Boon yesterday was for a netcode revamp for MKX... but they're not using GGPO itself. I'm seeing a bunch of teeth gnashing on my Twitter timeline over that, but personally I think the indignation should be inversely proportional to how good the implementation is. Something like KI or various doujin game hacks (like the ones for MB, IaMP, EFZ) don't use GGPO directly but rather a derived model of it and it works well enough. It can definitely be replicated: Tony Cannon had an extensive writeup about how the rollback model in GGPO works in Game Developer Magazine a couple of years back, and mauve (the developer of CowCaster, the IaMP netplay client) has a good writeup on how to implement rollbacks as well (and another articles on how to not blow out your sound effects during rollbacks).
If MKX's implementation is good, I don't think it'll matter if it's using GGPO or some off-brand implementation. If it's not so good... well, hopefully they keep trying to improve it. It would take a GIANT mess to be worse than the netcode MKX has now.
Is it short term thinking? Absolutely, and it's going to become a bigger issue now with the Japanese arcade sector getting smaller and smaller every year (IIRC, it's about half the size in terms of revenue compared to 2008). However, with most corporations if there's no short term money, you're not going to get the chance at longer term growth.
I think you're also giving Japanese companies way too much credit regarding international awareness (especially with a company who was openly antagonistic toward their western branches for decades). It's only starting to become a thing now more out of raw desperation than anything else.
You know SF4 and SF4:AE took about 9 months between the arcade and console releases, right? You're also comparing a series that sold millions of units on the PS360 and one that... didn't. Ultimately, the reason VF is dead
is mainly due to the game's popularity waning in Japan and the developers having no real idea where to take the series (a lot of the new animation in VF5:FS was pulled from a canceled attempt at development of VF6).
And I lol'ed at the comment at BB and GG being released quickly. You know it takes over a year between BB's arcade release and the international console release, right? GG is a bit quicker, but not by a ton (~9 months for Xrd, an Revalator looks to be similar)... and that also might have just as much to do with GG being less popular in Japan than BB is (and the inverse being true internationally).
If MKX's implementation is good, I don't think it'll matter if it's using GGPO or some off-brand implementation. If it's not so good... well, hopefully they keep trying to improve it. It would take a GIANT mess to be worse than the netcode MKX has now.
VF has always had a weird rhythm to their releases (you could have made the same argument with VF3... except there was no console that could even come close to running the game for YEARS after it came out in the arcade), and the international fanbase wasn't really that big even early on last generation.
Is it short term thinking? Absolutely, and it's going to become a bigger issue now with the Japanese arcade sector getting smaller and smaller every year (IIRC, it's about half the size in terms of revenue compared to 2008). However, with most corporations if there's no short term money, you're not going to get the chance at longer term growth.
I think you're also giving Japanese companies way too much credit regarding international awareness (especially with a company who was openly antagonistic toward their western branches for decades). It's only starting to become a thing now more out of raw desperation than anything else.
You know SF4 and SF4:AE took about 9 months between the arcade and console releases, right? You're also comparing a series that sold millions of units on the PS360 and one that... didn't. Ultimately, the reason VF is dead
unless Verendus is right
And I lol'ed at the comment at BB and GG being released quickly. You know it takes over a year between BB's arcade release and the international console release, right? GG is a bit quicker, but not by a ton (~9 months for Xrd, an Revalator looks to be similar)... and that also might have just as much to do with GG being less popular in Japan than BB is (and the inverse being true internationally).
RockTurtle
Member
Kalamari
Member
I was at the gym and ESPN had a show on PED in competitive games (eSports) and I couldn't hear the sound. Anyone else catch this? I was too busy gettin' swole to pay any attention.
They were interviewing this kid with a scraggly beard and showed pictures of adderall pills and played clips of Halo 5 and CoD. No FG players though, but I am pretty sure a lot of players do take them.
They were interviewing this kid with a scraggly beard and showed pictures of adderall pills and played clips of Halo 5 and CoD. No FG players though, but I am pretty sure a lot of players do take them.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
SF4 being a success has had no bearing on the genre as far as ASW is concerned. Everyone of ASW's games gets more arcade play in japan than SF4, blaz especially.
In the west ASW is in the same spot they would be anway, maybe with less people bitching about anime
In the west ASW is in the same spot they would be anway, maybe with less people bitching about anime
Cindi Mayweather
Member
The reason I give them credit is because they should know. If I remember, Japanese arcade sales were going down as far back as 2006. With the rise of console online play and a new SF, developers like Sega should have been more aware of building an international audience and console versions, especially with arcades growing smaller internationally. Instead, they stayed with an old model, and now we might not get VF6.
As for AE, that was ridiculous and stupid but it still came out on consoles.
RE: BB I was wrong on that. Meant GG, which again had an international audience even if it's niche.
Lostconfused
Member
Even if they try something "long term" it might blow up in their face anyway like Rise of Incarnates. Good argument to be made for that one being a half assed attempt, but still.
MikeBreezy92
Member
I honestly don't see the point of that....
Sometimes I feel the urge to mash a dp when someone tries a blockstring, but I resist it!
Then some dipshit spds me when I try something.
Churning is strong with him
RockTurtle
Member
oh snap your tag changes when you hover over it
i have learned more control and try to implement more footsies in my game with specific characters. it ain't perfect but i'm trying to become more conscious of it.
i thought we were playing for fun :C
i thought we were playing for fun :C
streaming FT5 now vs VULVA
http://www.twitch.tv/mesmerdude
ShinMaruku
Member
You guys are misunderstanding what I am saying, I am glad any game has it's shine, I think you guys are having this image dictate what you assume I am talking about. All I said was SF is the big draw call the the draw on their site what it is, there ain't even a unified MOBA front and they have their own separate scenes.
Of course they should not which is why I say label it Street Fighter and not get bogged down in the different communities
You know, I wish hell on who termed that. Matter of fact I probably don't need to that man has known great pain. :E
You guys have this strange narritive going on about how I appeartnly am bitching about DOA getting no FGC respect when I am the one who said for all communities to take the smash/csgo approach and build their own scenes and not look for much cross over with the 'fgc' you have to convert your own people into a strong and solid scene they by size you can slide in like smash did. Never did I ever say "Why the fgc does not have DOA" I am not expecting that from that group. Where did I say that? I want to know where you seen me ever lament that.
What tournement was I at? I was at Defend the North, I was even in the topic posting about my experience. I should be at King of New York, I do go out to play.
That whole thing about limiting cheese cake was to me a cynical ploy to get other people at tourneies to play and I laughed at that and did comment on it. They don't need to limit cheesecake because if it has it's own scene it can grow regardless of what others think.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
You're misunderstanding me. No disrespect. Just saying a lot of games would have more eyeballs on them and we'd probably be a bit more healthy as a scene if they were more readily available.
irfaanator
Banned
damn one post in that mk thread got it derailed pretty fast
notworksafe
Member
so when you moan and cry about the fgc not actually being a community you aren't referring to them "excluding" games? that would mean you are whining just to whine.
ShinMaruku
Member
I'd rather them hire Platinum to make an action game with Kos-Mos murdering shit ala MGR.
"It's time for Mary to LET ER RRRRRIIIIPPP!"
ShadowSoldier89
Member
Id rather not turn one of the best turn based RPGs ever into just another action rpg
the FGC is a pretty damn awful community filled with nothing but segregation based on games. Enjoying anything other than SF4 at tournies has been a chore
notworksafe
Member
sounds like a personal/scene problem tbh. that's never been an issue at either local events or majors that i've been to in the past ~7 years.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
it was a problem at evo, and not just for anime players. Smash players as well
Inb4 the "that's bc you are part of the problem" assist comes in
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