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Fighting Game Headquarters |2| 0-2 vs Community

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EXVS relative to fighting games since you asked Karst. Your question was kind of vague though so you'll need to be a bit more specific if you want a more detailed answer. Shun and Shouta can also explain all of this, possibly even better.

In the grand scheme of things I would say they are one and the same thing. Due to the origins of game design in arcade machines and competitive nature the differences are in specific details rather than the overall nature of the game.

I’ve started to write up a much longer explanation of the basic game mechanics but it’s kind of long. I can still finish it up and post it later if anyone cares, but it pretty much just tries to explain how the game works and you can get that from most tutorials trying to teach the game.

Essentially it’s still a competitive game between several players on opposing sides with the goal of reducing each other's health bars. Each action has positive and negative consequences. Very often it is possible to damage the opponent without sustaining any yourself by predicting their actions. Animation can’t be freely cancelled without spending resources or relying on specific game mechanics. Players succumb to hit and block stun. The more experienced players are at a significant advantage and can use game mechanics, fast and accurate inputs, knowledge of the opposing character's abilities to put themselves at an advantage.

There are obvious differences due to the perspective, the dimensions of the stages, the team aspect of the game. However the core concepts that define how the game plays and it’s competitive nature seem pretty similar to me.
 
EXVS relative to fighting games since you asked Karst. Your question was kind of vague though so you'll need to be a bit more specific if you want a more detailed answer. Shun and Shouta can also explain all of this, possibly even better.

In the grand scheme of things I would say they are one and the same thing. Due to the origins of game design in arcade machines and competitive nature the differences are in specific details rather than the overall nature of the game.

I’ve started to write up a much longer explanation of the basic game mechanics but it’s kind of long. I can still finish it up and post it later if anyone cares, but it pretty much just tries to explain how the game works and you can get that from most tutorials trying to teach the game.

Essentially it’s still a competitive game between several players on opposing sides with the goal of reducing each other's health bars. Each action has positive and negative consequences. Very often it is possible to damage the opponent without sustaining any yourself by predicting their actions. Animation can’t be freely cancelled without spending resources or relying on specific game mechanics. Players succumb to hit and block stun. The more experienced players are at a significant advantage and can use game mechanics, fast and accurate inputs, knowledge of the opposing character's abilities to put themselves at an advantage.

There are obvious differences due to the perspective, the dimensions of the stages, the team aspect of the game. However the core concepts that define how the game plays and it’s competitive nature seem pretty similar to me.
I'd love to read that writeup.
 

petghost

Banned
i'd like to hear it too because despite being associated with fighting games and arcades from my perspective as an outsider it looks like it has more in common with a shooter or character action game.
 

Shun

Member
what was the question how is gundam exvs consider fight game? my flight is in ~2.5 hours so I will try to answer best from iPhone.
 

Shun

Member
So bear with me in case there are issues with understanding, I hope autocorrect and reading through this fixes most. I hope you can read and make sense? This is going to be a very long and complex write up and I think it would be easier to understand if I show a video after to explain what is going on better.

The official genre for Gundam EXVS is called Team Battle Action. Even within the community it is debatable whether or not Gundam EXVS and by extension, Gunslinger Stratos, consider kakuge. Some acknowledge but others do not because it is label as action game in many places and storefronts.

It is further debatable due to how different the user bases are and how they do not necessarily overlap at all. People who play Gundam aren't always likely to play tekken or street fighter or blazblue and the reverse can be said for those who play tekken or blazblue who don't overlap with gundam. A very large amount of people solely play Gundam and it is considered the most popular game in game centers for a very long time because of how easy the game is to pick up and learn, but at the same time how much depth it has as a game, arguably more so than most other competitive games. From an outsiders perspective, because it is so different you can make ether argument. In english term I think you would call it a 3D arena fighting like how smash bros is a 2d arena fighting.

With semantics out of the way, it is regarded as esports regardless and the competitive nature of the game should make it a open topic for this community, especially since the other thread is dead and because more people should play this game anyway.

At it's core, unlike many traditional fighting this game requires a team of 2 people on each side. Although you can play 1v1 game is not balanced to be that way because of how suits are balanced by "front, offensive carry" or "back, support". It has very similar dynamics to say Tekken Tag 2 to how team building and team play works due to how many different matchups there are and how viable different teams can be. The goal of the match is to reduce the team's cost gauge, their team bar, to 0 or as much as possible before the time expires.

The game has 4 buttons, a ranged attack (A), a melee attack (B), a boost (C), and a communication button. Your weapons and attacks are determined through doing a combination of buttons such as A, AB, BC, AC and even charge moves by holding down A or B. Each character and suit has a different set of weapons and each weapon with the exception of melee has a cool down after you use up all the ammo but the button combinations are generally the same. You also even have access to a burst where you regain boost meter, get a damage/defense modifier, and are able to use essentially or super or ultra for major damage. Not only do you have to keep in mind of your ammo, but you need to meter manage both your boost meter and your burst meter.

Gundam EXVS is extremely movement heavy and positioning, much like tekken and street fighter however because of how stages are set up it is also very neutral heavy meaning that the game still has a lot going on even if you aren't moving or attacking.

metagame movement is a variety of step cancels, which vary from a regular boost sutekyan to nijisute, to fuwasute, to amekyan, to samekyan, etc. I will go into that more in depth after. In street fighter or blazblue you would rely on dash cancels and air dash cancels in order to gain positioning. in Tekken your means of movement would be sutesute or yamasute, I think it is call wavedash or korea backdash in english?

Step cancel is extremely important in exvs because it determines how efficiently you traverse a stage and it also affects how often you get hit and damaged. In EXVS, the beams have tracking due to the lock on mechanic, so in order to avoid getting hit, you would step cancel. However if there was only one kind of step cancel, it would be very easy to predict how your opponent moves or wakes up. So to address this you have a boost which allows you to traverse a map faster but it doesn't really cut down tracking, a side step, which does cut down tracking, and a jump which slightly cuts tracking. You want to mix between all different types of movement so that your opponent does not predict you and hit you. For example you would boost dash/side step, but add a jump to cut tracking. This is called a fuwastep and you do this to mix up your movement. you can also cancel while doing a ranged or melee attack. Amekyan and samekyan are step cancels where you would use a sub weapon or an assist, and immediately cancel with your main weapon and boost for a step cancel. This cuts down the frames required to execute certain moves. However these things all take up boost meter and ammo so you need to pay attention or else end up as a sitting duck. You can even cancel melee attacks through nijisute which lets you cancel a melee attack, dash, and essentially melee again or zunda, beam combo, to confuse your opponent.

In Street Fighter or Tekken you want to gain control of the stage by forcing your opponent to a wall or corner so that you can take advantage of okizeme and mixup opportunities. In Gundam EXVS, the concept is the same thing, you want to force the opposing team to a corner and limit their movement options or effectively separate the two enemies and flank them. By driving opponents to the corner you are able to abuse them through combos.

You would use your ranged attacks to hit your opponent, stun them, or force them to move to where you want, and when they are close enough you would consider your options to see if a melee combo is viable. Melee does the most damage in the game, but it is relatively unsafe and is used to punish bad movement. You would trap your opponent and use cancels or stun them with one of your sub weapons so that you can go for a melee combo.

So basically the goal is to coordinate your movements with your team member, restrict their options, and then punish them to deplete their health. There are a lot of game specific and character specific cancels, moves, attributes, etc. You have a fuck ton of options and you want to abuse your movement options and punish.

In the next post I will give you a video of the character I play in the game and what goes on in the video so that you can get a better understanding. This post was just defining why it shouldn't matter whether or not it is a fighting game because at the end of the day, it is a very competitive game and it is as if not more complex and popular than your preferred game.
 

Shun

Member
Unlike in most fighting games where I play a rushdown character, in Gundam EXVS, I play a support oriented character whose goal is to control the map and make life a living hell for my opponents and make life easier for my partner. She is a very unique character but I think she does a good job explaining the options and depth this game has. I can go in depth with other characters if anyone is interested.

Kshatriya

Kshatriya is what you would call a "zoning" character because her tools allow her to stun and attack her opponent from a far distance and create space and opportunities for your partner to attack and combo.

So right off the bat at the beginning of the video, what this Kshatriya does is make use of samekyan. The player uses their sub weapon (funnels/fences/middle weapon), and then immediate step cancels with their main weapon (green beam rifle/top weapon).

Kshatriyas funnel subweapon stuns the opponent when they are hit. The range is effectively across the entire stage so you can force your opponents to move away to avoid getting stunned and create an opportunity for your partner to rush in and cause real damage.

At the 8 second mark, you can see that one of the opponents misread the funnels and were punished. Kshatriya used that opportunity to use her strongest weapon, her gerobi, a very strong Dragon Ball-esque beam, to hit her opponent for ~1/4-1/3 their health.

At the same time, the other opponent was able to avoid the fences, but this allows your partner the Nu Gundam to safely move in and attack or force the opponent to the position they want.

All this happened in 8 seconds.

So since the person the Kshatriya hit was stunned, the Kshatriya took advantage of that opportunity to double team the other opponent with her parter and harass them.

When you watch this sequence happen, you notice that the Kshatriya always keeps both enemies in her line of sight and accounts for her partner when attacking. This is good movement and defensive play. It limits the amount of damage you take and allows your partner to take the offensive load.

After that she continues to use her weapons to force the opponent out of the way and cause some damage if it hits. The mistake she makes here is that she moves into the corner and restricts her movement options to only going right.

The player notices this and immediately tries to reposition themselves while avoiding gunfire so that they can continue their support role of harassing the other side with fences and beams.

The little texts and prompts that you see on screen is actually the players communicating with each other letting them know how much health they have and what position they are.

At the one minute mark, the team is again forced into the corner by their enemies and they are punished for that and lose ~200 HP.

At the 1:40 mark, your team eliminates the opposing support, but the Kshatriya makes a mistake and moves in too close to the Opposing front suit. The opposing front realizes this and uses their burst and does a melee combo and reduces the Kshatriya HP even further.

After being punished, she wakes up and repositions herself to create opportunities for her partner. At the 1:50ish mark, the Kshatriya uses her burst to refill her ammo and boost gauge, gain a defensive buff, and continues her zoning.

At the 2:30 mark both opponents HP has been reduced down to less than half and you have the option of double teaming or leaving it to your partner. The Kshatriya opts to double team and makes sure to keep the other from assisting their partner.

At the end of the match, your partner clutches out and reduces the opponents HP bar to 0 before the time limit.

You notice how both the Nu and Kshatriya never died once through out the match, except for the end? That's because of good movement and mixing up your movement patterns so that it becomes more difficult to get punished and hit by tracking beams. Overall they did a good job of maintaining control of the stage and staying alive.

I hope this makes more sense than the huge explanation I did earlier. It will make even more sense when you play the game in person. The basics are easy to grasp, but movement and team options is what makes the game very deep and very satisfying. It is why game centers almost aways have someone playing the game and why there are huge tournaments and events run and supported not just by the community but also by bannam. It's played in Hong Kong, Korea, and Taiwan as well and maybe some other places like the Philippines.
 

Shun

Member
No one replied and I don't know if anyone still cares but here is the other end of the spectrum with a more offensive oriented character and what it is like when you are in the front.

Gameplay of Master Gundam, a more traditional, classic offensive front suit.

Similar mechanics apply, but this time it is a 3000 cost, offensive front suit.

Differences from Kshatriya is that you can afford to be more reckless because you are rushing in to do more damage and you generally have more HP than 2500, 2000, and 1500 cost suits. You also have more firepower and options and it is reflected in the higher cost. However the drawbacks is that you are more prone and drawn to crossfire and if you die twice, it's game over.

So the basics of Master Gundam is making use of your step cancels while zoning with your ranged attacks. Almost all your attacks have a stun attribute to them so once those connect, you are able to use your whip or go in for a melee combo for high damage.

Early in the match you see Master Gundam bait the opponent into getting to close, then he uses his Fuuinsaiki assist where the horse rams and stuns the opponent. Master Gundam takes advantage of that and goes for a melee combo.

Master Gundam has good oki so proper movement prediction and making use of your stuns mean you can abuse your opponents and continue to link melee combos. If you're both good, then you won't be able to abuse it as much but Master Gundam has a lot of opportunities as a front offensive suit.

Throughout the match you see the Kshatriya get abused by Master. That match up is in Master's favor because Master has better mobility and Kshatriya just doesn't have the options to safely run away. You would need to read pretty well to avoid being melee to death.

Anyway that is enough from me, I'll respond later when I have the chance if people who were interested want to know more.
 

NEO0MJ

Member
Also, start the match by summoning a full set of minions to give your opponent something to waste boost on as soon as you make contact.
 
I may be mistaken but i think Shouta's the only one who plays the Gundam VS games in this thread.

shouta, lost confused, and there are others that probably don't post. I've dabbled in exvs but haven't done anything serious just due how much of pain setting it up at locals is
 

Shun

Member
Well Karst and petghost apparently asked a question about how the game relates to a traditional fighting game and it is kind of difficult to understand from an outsider perspective without knowing the basic mechanics of the game before watching or playing it yourself.

I tried to explain it as best I can with footage, but it really is better to try it out for yourself since the games are very fun and rewarding.

Only a handful of members here play but it is worth making a post and trying to explain the mechanics of a very very popular game throughout asia. Apparently westerners have asked for this game to come in English forever and maybe if people understand the game better and spark interest, that they will finally come over. It doesn't really hurt, especially when the matches are interesting at mid and high levels.
 

ElTopo

Banned
Whelp, I guess I got what I deserved. I tried to get a full Beta 3 (and yes, I pre-ordered the game and even bought the season pass) and I had to use a different AppData file. I did so, and the Beta 3 I had was still buggy. Plus there was horrible slowdown and the graphics were ugly as shit. So I go back to Beta 2 for some Birdie training and the AppData file affected Beta 2 as well and I don't have a back up. Had to delete it.

Oh well, 28 days until V is here.
 

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Whelp, I guess I got what I deserved. I tried to get a full Beta 3 (and yes, I pre-ordered the game and even bought the season pass) and I had to use a different AppData file. I did so, and the Beta 3 I had was still buggy. Plus there was horrible slowdown and the graphics were ugly as shit. So I go back to Beta 2 for some Birdie training and the AppData file affected Beta 2 as well and I don't have a back up. Had to delete it.

Oh well, 28 days until V is here.

Yeah I never bothered to update my copy to beta 3. I'm kind of surprised that it's still apparently jank but also not since I guess no one really feels like putting in the effort for a game that drops in a month anyway.
 

miku

Member
Well Karst and petghost apparently asked a question about how the game relates to a traditional fighting game and it is kind of difficult to understand from an outsider perspective without knowing the basic mechanics of the game before watching or playing it yourself.

I tried to explain it as best I can with footage, but it really is better to try it out for yourself since the games are very fun and rewarding.

Only a handful of members here play but it is worth making a post and trying to explain the mechanics of a very very popular game throughout asia. Apparently westerners have asked for this game to come in English forever and maybe if people understand the game better and spark interest, that they will finally come over. It doesn't really hurt, especially when the matches are interesting at mid and high levels.

You know, I'm more curious if it's possible for people to enjoy Gundam games without watching any of the Gundam anime.

At least I wasn't interested in Gundam until I watched
Gundam SEED
 

NEO0MJ

Member
At least I wasn't interested in Gundam until I watched
Gundam SEED

It's fine, you don't have to be part of the Gundam fandom to enjoy it. My personal reason for loving it is how much it reminds me of Gotcha Force. In fact, some of its devs worked on both.
 
Had the opportunity to mess around with Nitro Blasters at a friend yesterday. I wasn't expecting all that much, but damn it's a really fun game.

Mostly played with Al Azif and Saber, and i really like both those characters. Some of the assists are completely nuts too.

Kinda sad it's coming out at such an inopportune time, almost together with SF5. May still pick it up though.
 
I'm hoping Pokken including it is a sign that future Namco games might include it.

Or it could be Nintendo ensuring it has a long life on consoles as with their other evergreen titles, while Bandai Namco has that arcade revenue to uphold with the EXVS franchise.
 

Tizoc

Member

mbpm1

Member
I've been watching less and less lately. Didn't even bother with Ultra this KiT, just watched MK and KI. Maybe I'll Du top 3 later
 

Kikirin

Member
(Gundam EXVS Stuff)

Thanks for the write-ups! Haven't had a chance to look at the videos yet, but your posts definitely illustrate that there's a lot happening on the individual and team level and how it correlates to fighting game stuff. Very interesting.
 
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